Update 66 Preview 2: AOE Ranged Attacks

[Mordenkainen]

Because melee is superior to ranged for damage. Given a choice currently between taking a melee or ranged into a raid, melee is the choice to take (unless a ranged is needed for a mechanic like breaking pillars). Reduced single target damage will only make the gap greater and the AoE only really matters for making leveling easier; so those who did big single target hits at cap are concerned where they'll wind up.

Don't care about raids. And this game needs to STOP being abouy raids. God I hate raiding.

 

[rabidfox]

Given we've got a ranged player stating they're AVERAGING over 100k crits and peaking at 285k, I'm left wondering just how much more damage some folks think melee should be/are doing to come out significantly ahead there.

Burst vs sustained. There's a lot of attacks between a hunt/adren burst and the next one. I haven't done the math, but the folks who have are ones I generally trust to get things right.

Of course, there's also big badda booms from melee too (I don't really count numbers like these as they're all about debuffs and the stars aligning but fun to post):

 

[Ahpuch]

Don't care about raids. And this game needs to STOP being abouy raids. God I hate raiding.

But the game cannot be balanced just on the way you like to play. You asked why a "rocket propelled grenade" wasn't enough to make ranged players happy. You were given reasons why that "rpg" was not compensation in some players perception. But those don't matter because you hate raids? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Sholekar]

Don't care about raids. And this game needs to STOP being abouy raids. God I hate raiding.

Whether you care for raids or not, they exist and are for more common than R10. At the end of the day, most ranged DPS are focused on single target damage. In my group, the melees/casters handle groups/CC, while the Ranged picks off priority targets. When it comes to bosses, he is the one who is doing the most single target damage, while the melee keeps agro.

I would be surprised if most groups don't resemble this at least roughly.

So while it is nice to get some AoE attacks, that's not what he needs. That's not what he's built around, and that's not making a difference in how he plays.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Burst vs sustained. There's a lot of attacks between a hunt/adren burst and the next one. I haven't done the math, but the folks who have are ones I generally trust to get things right.

Of course, there's also big badda booms from melee too (I don't really count numbers like these as they're all about debuffs and the stars aligning but fun to post):

1.2 MILLION!!!

Man, I need to run with better debuffers!

 

[Mordenkainen]

Whether you care for raids or not, they exist and are for more common than R10. At the end of the day, most ranged DPS are focused on single target damage. In my group, the melees/casters handle groups/CC, while the Ranged picks off priority targets. When it comes to bosses, he is the one who is doing the most single target damage, while the melee keeps agro.

I would be surprised if most groups don't resemble this at least roughly.

So while it is nice to get some AoE attacks, that's not what he needs. That's not what he's built around, and that's not making a difference in how he plays.

We're all going to get nerfed soon. Frankly, I don't think any of this matters. If you think melees or casters or whatever is more powerful in certain roles now, just wait until another few updates.

Come on guys this isn't your first rodeo for none of you here.

 

[PraetorPlato]

1.2 MILLION!!!

Man, I need to run with better debuffers!

I think I've seen a 1.5....

More seriously, a well build meta TWF DPS melee with normal debuffs but nothing special should be hitting in the 150k+ range on an adren crit, up to ~400-500k on a stars aligned hit with a bunch of burst debuffs, average front numbers in the 4-8k range depending on build. THF should be substantially bigger than that for obvious reasons.

 

[Mordenkainen]

Adren, Adren, and Adren.

I told Tonquin this. That his little QC buff is going to do jack and squat in making it compeititive against adren.

All this U66 is a whole bunch of nerfs across the board and a couple of token "buffs" that don't matter.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Lotus got a pretty large buff, and SD 100% proc uptime is interesting, but remains to be seen exactly where it ends up.

 

[Mickeymouse]

do the math on 2.2 million dps on a hit I dare you--- c´mon party ppl! edit: xaxaxaxax

 

[Phoenicis]

Ranged has effectively gotten a rocket-propelled grenade and you're complaining? How does this make sense?

That hits four mobs under ideal circumstances and meanwhile had their single target damage gutted. In a major way.

Overall, I'd call that a nerf.

 

[Abax11]

That hits four mobs under ideal circumstances and meanwhile had their single target damage gutted. In a major way.

Overall, I'd call that a nerf.

Considering in some non ideal situation you won't even hit 1 (cof cof lag).

 

[FixBows]

We're all going to get nerfed soon. Frankly, I don't think any of this matters. If you think melees or casters or whatever is more powerful in certain roles now, just wait until another few updates.

Come on guys this isn't your first rodeo for none of you here.

Exactly. Unfortunately for ranged, the rodeo seems to hit them harder and more often that casters for sure. Melee has had issues over the years, but generally, if you can keep yourself alive, you should be good to go. Ranged got yet another slap down with very little to compensate. It is exactly the same nonsense when IPS was nerfed. They did not 100% kill it then so they have come back to finish the job.

 

[Sylvanush]

I am in agreement with this. The HE nerf is similar to the IPS nerf we continue to endure. Huge hit to dps with a small return somewhere else. The tiny circle of aoe isn't doing it. The tiny buff to slayer arrow isn't doing it. You nerfed more than slayer arrow guys, so please stop saying you are working on bringing ranged dps up. It is a farse.

I agree, ranged is yet again dead. The devs don't like ranged. It is proven time and time again. No matter what they say, actions speak louder. They have tried to minimize ranged since the start. Anyone remember when Manyshot was a stance in Beta? So, it started with Manyshot being nerfed to kill the moncher, then IPS was nerfed because it was the next in line. I think the statement was that IPS needed to be changed so that they could further develop ranged. Um, did I miss an update or something because nothing good happened after that. Now this. Same garbage about not being able to develop stuff because HE is too powerful. Enough is enough for me. I am letting my sub run out. Already cancelled. It is not just this change, it is the mountain of nerfs constantly hitting ranged. Any time someone figures out to build around a nerf, they just nerf more. Endless cycle until you decide for yourself that enough is enough. Too bad as I have been playing and paying a sub since release. No more.

yeah prolly cancel too when this get out let me see first what happen dont blame you.

 

[Bast1035]

Given we've got a ranged player stating they're AVERAGING over 100k crits and peaking at 285k, I'm left wondering just how much more damage some folks think melee should be/are doing to come out significantly ahead there.

Because whilst not top tier, I'm not exactly a slouch, but I've yet to see performance anything like that even with firing adrenaline and boulder's combined on a fortification stripped mob, on the odd occasion they actually fire, if course.

Perhaps someone could tell me how their average crits and peaks are comparing favourably with those above, as the whole risk-reward balance seems completely out of kilter if non melee are hitting those sorts of numbers.

If the change to Hunt's End is to reddress this, then just maybe I'm beginning to see where the Devs are coming from...

I do solid damage between HE hits, but as some have said that I'm not pulling those crazy 1M numbers not even close. My avg crits are 100K and I know they have the capacity to get higher with the right set up circumstances. However, I have NEVER even felt close in sustainable damage to melee or most nukers. That's what really gets me. DDO decided that they wanted to make ranged AoE friendly and I'm guessing felt that HE+AoE was going to be OP (even though a sorc would out AoE me in a second even with HE+AoE). I do good damage and my single target is really helpful in raids, orange names, raid bosses, reapers, and sure I can one shot a lot of trash, but I'm not leading the kill counts unless I'm running with a bunch of low dps toons (which I rarely do).

However, yet somehow they think that the only real **** ranged has going for it needs to be nerfed. Sigh. I can't stand playing melee. But if someone gives me the gear and build for a melee that can do 1M+ crits I'd try it out Seriously, back channel me

 

[Sylvanush]

Lets see when they nerf HE and archers try to hit those mobs that have deflects arrows like in skelly and FoM when those monsters can deflect thousand arrows in 1 sec to see how archer can even kill 1 mob. Because now lately they add deflecting too often to try to control range dps.
If the solution is to remove HE, needs to remove Adrenaline too is the same thing but in addition Unbridled Fury gives more times of adrenaline and can be combine also with adrenaline so think about it.

 

[Abramax]

I do solid damage between HE hits, but as some have said that I'm not pulling those crazy 1M numbers not even close. My avg crits are 100K and I know they have the capacity to get higher with the right set up circumstances. However, I have NEVER even felt close in sustainable damage to melee or most nukers. That's what really gets me. DDO decided that they wanted to make ranged AoE friendly and I'm guessing felt that HE+AoE was going to be OP (even though a sorc would out AoE me in a second even with HE+AoE). I do good damage and my single target is really helpful in raids, orange names, raid bosses, reapers, and sure I can one shot a lot of trash, but I'm not leading the kill counts unless I'm running with a bunch of low dps toons (which I rarely do).

However, yet somehow they think that the only real **** ranged has going for it needs to be nerfed. Sigh. I can't stand playing melee. But if someone gives me the gear and build for a melee that can do 1M+ crits I'd try it out Seriously, back channel me

That 6 messages account looks like a Dev sub account asking for melee builds doing 1 million crit damage to nerf it

 

[Oliphant]

Devs nuking endgame ranged DPS while hitting melee with a feather duster is about as close to objectively bad as it gets.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

I think I've seen a 1.5....

More seriously, a well build meta TWF DPS melee with normal debuffs but nothing special should be hitting in the 150k+ range on an adren crit, up to ~400-500k on a stars aligned hit with a bunch of burst debuffs, average front numbers in the 4-8k range depending on build. THF should be substantially bigger than that for obvious reasons.

Do you have any maths to back this up? My THF certainly doesn't hit anything like that, never mind substantially more.

Max I've EVER seen is 220k. Normally more in the 80-120k range.

Now I reckon I'm about 20-25% off of optimal DPS (as have compromised on MP and STR a bit), and whilst correcting that could take me to 100-150k I guess, that's on THF, so still substantially less than posited for a THF build.

I also don't see me getting anywhere near a max of 400-500k, never mind substantially more, using self-applied debuffs.

What is the contribution from external debuffs to get to these numbers, and what are the principal stacking constituents of them?

I need a bit more light on this to better understand what I'm missing here. Nothing like it is apparent in game for me.

 

[Mickeymouse]

I´d love to see the math of that too. was watching teh troll´s twf ranger on youtube anno U59 and his base hits are 2k (3.5 w debuffs). so would love to see the x3 of that build.