Crunchy Spell Question for MadFloyd

[Velexia]

Back in DDO Cast 126, you talked about the effect of having multiple threat reduction items in varying percentages.

On the forums here, and in the game, players are disputing the effect of having multiple miss chance spells and items. Examples would be Ring of Shadows, Blur, Displacement, Dusk Heart.

So the question is... If I have a Ring of Shadows (10%), Blur (20%), and Displacement (50%) against a Blinded monster (50%)... which of these does the monster have to bypass to hit me?

Thanks in advance ~_^

[Borror0]

Originally Posted by Velexia

So the question is... If I have a Ring of Shadows (10%), Blur (20%), and Displacement (50%) against a Blinded monster (50%)... which of these does the monster have to bypass to hit me.

The 50% for being blinded only since all of them are concealment bonuses.

Think about it this way: the first three make your image harder to see; however, someone who is blind... can't see.

[WeaselKing]

Originally Posted by Borror0

The 50% for being blinded only since all of them are concealment bonuses.

Think about it this way: the first three make your image harder to see; however, someone who is blind... can't see.

That would certainly (in my mind at least) be the correct interpretation, but is it the actual implementation?

[Visty]

Originally Posted by WeaselKing

That would certainly (in my mind at least) be the correct interpretation, but is it the actual implementation?

jep

and its easy to test: blind a mob, displace yourself, let it hit you. youll see only the blind msg, not the displaced one

[Eladrin]

Originally Posted by WeaselKing

That would certainly (in my mind at least) be the correct interpretation, but is it the actual implementation?

Only the most powerful concealment effect applies. There is one bug (that I just fixed locally) where incorporeal miss chance was misclassified as a concealment effect.

[Borror0]

Originally Posted by Eladrin

Only the most powerful concealment effect applies. There is one bug (that I just fixed locally) where incorporeal miss chance was misclassified as a concealment effect.

While you're checking bugs, might give a pass to the description of Blur and Displacement to mention the bonus type (ie Concealment).

Might be a good idea to also reword Dusk to make the bonus type clear.

[totmacher]

Originally Posted by Eladrin

Only the most powerful concealment effect applies. There is one bug (that I just fixed locally) where incorporeal miss chance was misclassified as a concealment effect.

I'm going to spin this as Update 4: Eladrin fixed ONE bug, DOWN WITH THE DEVS!! UP WITH NAT GANN!!!

[Angelus_dead]

Originally Posted by Eladrin

There is one bug (that I just fixed locally) where incorporeal miss chance was misclassified as a concealment effect.

So that means that the Pale Master wraith form might be more viable to activate...

However, it will still be tough to decide how well the additional miss percentage compares against the healing penalty. On the surface, trading 50% healing for 25% damage looks like a losing proposition, but there's more to it than that. (And there's that teensy problem with Mass Deathward)

[Auran82]

Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

So that means that the Pale Master wraith form might be more viable to activate...

However, it will still be tough to decide how well the additional miss percentage compares against the healing penalty. On the surface, trading 50% healing for 25% damage looks like a losing proposition, but there's more to it than that. (And there's that teensy problem with Mass Deathward)

*cough*Wouldn't it be nice if we could right click and dismiss positive buffs*cough*

[Angelus_dead]

Originally Posted by Auran82

*cough*Wouldn't it be nice if we could right click and dismiss positive buffs*cough*

Yes, but in this case the good solution would be to buff undead forms so that you'd almost never WANT to dismiss them. It would be painfully irritating to try to go swapping the form off and on in order to get healed.

As for Deathward, you should never want to dismiss it. It should only block harmful effects, meaning that if an Undead somehow gets DW on him, he can still be healed by negative spells while retaining the immunity to instakill. Note that there are enemy undead in DDO who use DW to protect themselves from instakill...

[WeaselKing]

Since I was quoted by a dev, does that make my post constructive?

Dang it!!

[Auran82]

Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

Yes, but in this case the good solution would be to buff undead forms so that you'd almost never WANT to dismiss them. It would be painfully irritating to try to go swapping the form off and on in order to get healed.

As for Deathward, you should never want to dismiss it. It should only block harmful effects, meaning that if an Undead somehow gets DW on him, he can still be healed by negative spells while retaining the immunity to instakill. Note that there are enemy undead in DDO who use DW to protect themselves from instakill...

I wasn't just referring to the deathward case, you really should be able to dismiss any beneficial buff if for whatever reason you don't want it.

[smatt]

Originally Posted by WeaselKing

Since I was quoted by a dev, does that make my post constructive?

Dang it!!

It should for me since we bet a Lg. scale on whether you got multiple rolls for Dusk, Blur, Displacement

[Velexia]

Originally Posted by smatt

It should for me since we bet a Lg. scale on whether you got multiple rolls for Dusk, Blur, Displacement

Still internally debating on whether or not I should cough one up ( since you never actually agreed to that bet =P )

[Kintro]

Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

So that means that the Pale Master wraith form might be more viable to activate...

Wouldn't it make sense if the Wretched Twilight was an Incorporeal miss chance instead of Concealment too?

[smatt]

Originally Posted by Velexia

Still internally debating on whether or not I should cough one up ( since you never actually agreed to that bet =P )

Ohhhhh, so after I said "OK, I give up, you're right" after some 30 minutes of you insisting..... And then I said "OK, I don't care, I'll do that" when you said "He won't even put a scale on it" ..... I was done with it..... But relented becasue you HAD to be right..... I didn't want to take a scale for such a thing... But you wouldnt' quit....

[MadFloyd]

Originally Posted by Eladrin

Only the most powerful concealment effect applies. There is one bug (that I just fixed locally) where incorporeal miss chance was misclassified as a concealment effect.

What he said. :-)

[Cedwin]

Originally Posted by Auran82

I wasn't just referring to the deathward case, you really should be able to dismiss any beneficial buff if for whatever reason you don't want it.

Greater Dispell?

[smatt]

Originally Posted by Cedwin

Greater Dispell?

Indeed....

Unless you're a caster you should EVER be able to dispell magic, whehter it's on yourself or someone else., Unless lyou can UMD a scroll which takes soem effort and resources to achieve... There's already too much blur of the lines between classes in DDO.

[Riggs]

Originally Posted by Auran82

*cough*Wouldn't it be nice if we could right click and dismiss positive buffs*cough*

Dismissing a self activate 'stance' or form like the palemaster ones would be nice. Blademasters too. Or I guess DW too if you have a palemaster form up - but since they are useless no one actually takes it other than too look cool floating around the market.

Dismissing buffs cast by another should only be possible if you chose to dismiss it, and then you get a save...maybe. Since you willingly took the spell in the first place you negated the save part already. But Being able to dismiss some things would be nice.

Like say rage on an ac build.