28pt TWF Dwarf assistance request (redirect)

[SangRahl]

I just realized that the post I made under 'Classes>Multiclasses' was supposed to be placed here... Such is life when one peruses the forums in a tabbed browser.

"TWF Axe-wielding Dwarf build question(s)"
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206384

Gist of the problem: Need help deciding on level split for Fighter/Ranger TWF build. (Possibly a splash of Rogue for UMD and/or DD skills, but undecided.)

There's a lot of flavor to the character, so looking to optimize as best as I can where not already self-restricted: TWF Dwarven Waraxes, Throwing Axes for ranged, Medium/Heavy Armor (Adamantine, when possible)... like I said, 'a lot of flavor'. Sometimes it's about playing a character, not a line graph.

As always, any assistance provided is greatly appreciated.

[Thanimal]

Given your desires and constraint, my first suggestion is Ranger 18/Fighter 2.

This happens to be a particularly nice path for a Dwarf. Dwarves benefit very little from Monk splashes, because they can get so much out of their armor. (In Mithral Breastplate [the best light armor that isn't raid loot] this build can use a DEX bonus of 8 or a DEX of 26 -- possibly more than the build realistically can manage.)

And since Ranger picks up Evasion anyhow, a couple of Fighter levels brings two feats, +1 STR, Haste Boost, and 1 extra Fighter Toughness enhancement. Each of those is fairly good, but taken together is a Real Nice Package.

If you like this path, I can try to flesh it out for you (or I think I can find a good link, actually).

P.S. Wearing heavy armor is great at low levels (and a handy bonus of Fighter levels), but once you have Evasion (Ranger 9), you'll really never want to be in anything but light armor. If you're willing to give up Evasion for flavor, then you're a braver man than I am...

[SangRahl]

Originally Posted by Thanimal

Given your desires and constraint, my first suggestion is Ranger 18/Fighter 2.

This happens to be a particularly nice path for a Dwarf. Dwarves benefit very little from Monk splashes, because they can get so much out of their armor. (In Mithral Breastplate [the best light armor that isn't raid loot] this build can use a DEX bonus of 8 or a DEX of 26 -- possibly more than the build realistically can manage.)

And since Ranger picks up Evasion anyhow, a couple of Fighter levels brings two feats, +1 STR, Haste Boost, and 1 extra Fighter Toughness enhancement. Each of those is fairly good, but taken together is a Real Nice Package.

If you like this path, I can try to flesh it out for you (or I think I can find a good link, actually).

P.S. Wearing heavy armor is great at low levels (and a handy bonus of Fighter levels), but once you have Evasion (Ranger 9), you'll really never want to be in anything but light armor. If you're willing to give up Evasion for flavor, then you're a braver man than I am...

I've essentially "blown off" a day's worth off downtime playing around in the CharGen... twiddling about with Rog splashes and trying to whittle down different builds on my own. So, if you care to take the challenge as offered, please, be my guest. Heheheh.
As for Evasion, I've been playing a soloist sneaker (currently 2Ftr/3Rng/2Rog) who has had the benefit of roguish Evasion for a while, so I may be taking it for granted whithout thinking about it. Right now, with 17dex, Dinenae is going through growing pains where Chain Shirts are just more durable Studded Leather, so only Darkleaf BPs or Mithral offer any real increase in AC. Which is only exasperated by having 4 consecutive Bid-only auctions get snatched up and instantly reposted for 5-10x th purchase price. (Starting to loathe bid wars... but the only affordable Mithral or Darkleaf on the AH are sans-buyout.) So, just resigning myself to only use Medium/Heavy Armor and negate the Evasion bonus was a way to try and alleviate the "fun" of trying to track down two of everything. But, that's neither here, nor there.

In the end, I may simply start the transition when my Armor Mastery + Heavy AC is falling even with the lighter forms. If that should happen around the 9th Ranger level, then all the better.

I was considering looking at what could be had with 2Ftr/18Rng versus 8Ftr/12Rng...

Lose:
24 skill points to distribute - ouch
+5 Reflex - okay, another ouch
a third Favored Enemy - actually less of a headache for me... can never decide what to put here, anyways
'Hide In Plain Sight' - nice to have, but wasn't planning on going stealthy this time around
access to TempestIII - the 'biggie'... I've already read a few times that Ranger multi-class should stick to 2, 6, or 18 because of this very PrE

Gain:
3 additional Feats - can boost melee a bit more, or try and even out some of the saves
multiple Fighter Enhancements - additional +1str, Armor Mastery/Agility, Kensai/Waraxe Specialization, and Weapon Mastery

Is it worthwhile, overall? I'm not sure... But, out of curiousity, I'll probably attempt to make a side-by-side comparison next to the 2Ftr/18Rng you help me out with.

[Thanimal]

Firstly, take a look at this post where I discuss the optimal blends of Fighter and Ranger under Mod 9. The short version is you want 12F/6R, 18R, or 20F. Note the first two leave room for 2 more levels of something else.

To be more specific to your case, I believe you'll find Ranger 18/Fighter 2 has near strict superiority to Ranger 12/Fighter 8. The former has better AC, more DPS*, better saves, better spells, and better skills. (Those last two are very small advantages, but advantages nonetheless.)

*It's possible that R18/F2 only wins the DPS comparison against favored enemies -- I'm too lazy to get that detailed right now. But that's the same thing as winning it period, because 15 levels of Ranger makes just about every important bad guy in the game one of your favored enemies: Undead, Giant, Evil Outsider, Construct.

Next, let me outline the build.

With 28 points, I'd back off STR just a hair to help avoid having too sucky of a Will save (a potential liability on this build):

STR 17 [13 points] + 5 bumps + 1 Fighter enh + 1 Tome + 6 item + 2 Ram's might = 32 [add crazy raid loot for a lot more]
DEX 14 [6 points] + 3 Ranger enh + 1 Tome + 6 item = 24
CON 16 [6 points] + 2 Dwarf enh + 2 Tome + 6 item = 26
WIS 11 [3 points] + 1 Tome + 6 item = 18
INT 8/CHA 6 [0 points]

If you have 32 points, max start STR (18) and even off WIS to 12.

INT and CHA are almost completely useless here, assuming you don't want to take CE, which I don't think would really make sense. This build is about DPS in my view. (If you aren't focusing on DPS, I find it hard to recommend this path at all -- better to make a Human Exploiter who has "pretty good" DPS and brings a lot of utility to the table.)

I suggest Ranger at 1 (more skill points -- not that important but still better), then both Fighter levels to get lots of feats early, then Ranger thereafter. Until level 6ish, stay with Heavy Armor, Shield, and DAxe. Somewhere thereafter switch to dual-DAxes.

Feats:
1 Ranger. Toughness
2 Fighter. FBF: Dodge
3 Fighter. Iron Will. FBF: Mobility
6 Spring Attack
9 iCrit: Slashing
12 Power Attack
15 oTWF (prereq to Tempest III)
18 Extend wouldn't be crazy -- Barkskin and Resists are some good

(Hm, I have this feeling I'm missing a critically important feat. Can't think of it, though.)

Some important enhancements:
Dwarven Armor Mastery (as your DEX dictates it)
Tempest III
Dwarven spell save line III
Fighter Haste Boost I
STR I
DEX III
CON II
Fighter Toughness I
Dwarven Toughness II(ish)
Dwarven Axe Damage II (very important)
Dwarven Axe To-Hit II (nice to have)

A bit of flexibility for additional enhancements, I think.

[SangRahl]

From your suggested post, here's the DDOCharGen output, sans skills:
(Forgive the generic name... it's just easier to keep things straight when I'm looking at a few different possibilities.)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

DwarvenAxe Rng18_Ftr2
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 232 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 14
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               11                    12
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 (or as soon as cheaply procured)
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3 (or as soon as cheaply procured)
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3 (or as soon as cheaply procured)

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Dwarven Poison Resistance I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III

Unsure how to proceed with skill distribution, as I'm habitually used to having a Rogue base and a lot more to work with. Likely work on raising Balance to ~10, and Tumble towards ~8, and have the rest go across Jump, Spot, and probably a bit in Heal for Shrines or maybe Diplomacy for when in the odd group. And just not enough skill points to even consider UMD, not that that's a game-breaker for me.

Suggested Feats and Enhancements followed precisely... as well as taking a more purist FE-killer route for the remainder. Obviously, this wouldn't be the final order of taking them, but they are in the pre-defined chunks of progression requirements for the PrE tiers. (some swapping about of the above would be likely)

I'm not totally behind the "sword'n'board until 6+", but that's mostly due my old character build habits creeping up in the back of my mind. (Rule #1 of making a unique, interesting, and often fun character in PnP: Be flawed... have a quirk, an achilles heel, or be somehow limited in some fashion.) As such, I may "gimp myself", by swapping Ftr2 and Rng2, to allow the taking of 'OTWF' at 4th, and shift the early 'Iron Will' to 9th Level. It would leave me more open to Will-based attacks for a good while, but it would help me keep the character closer to the core concept of the 'barrel-chested whirling dervish'.

I'm not 100% convinced that the added Feats from pulling back to 8/12, or even 2/6/12 (with a Rogue splash for a more solid skill base, at the cost of slowing down TWF access and BAB progression), is so far behind in average output, but the pure carnage on FE targets here looks like it would be almost overwhelming... and certainly not something to sneeze at against others. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around completely setting aside the Fighter-added feats and enhancements.

[Thanimal]

Originally Posted by SangRahl

And just not enough skill points to even consider UMD, not that that's a game-breaker for me.

Always consider UMD. I can argue it's the best skill in the game.

I think you are dramatically over-rating skills in this game. Most of them are of marginal value at best. With 5 skill points per level, I'd start with the skills you actually want here: alternative 1 point into Jump and Balance, and put 1 into UMD. Then you've got 3 more skill points that are delving into "nice to have." I suppose you could go Hide/Move Silenty, although personally I think Stealth is pretty useless. Diplomacy is totally useless here. Your job is to stand there and kill stuff, not try to weasel out of it!! Investing more than 1 point in Tumble would be a waste. Heal is VERY optional on a build that can outright CAST Cure spells and has full access to Cure wands.

Personally, I'd probably have my "other skills" be Spot (1 per level) and Intimidate (2 per level to get 1 rank per level). Spot is marginal, but handy, especially for soloing. Intimidate will rarely be used, but is quite powerful in some cases to save your squishy party members. I wouldn't mind if I didn't have it, but I think it's better than the other skills.

Overall, I'd be completely comfortable with this build having an INT of 4...

I'm not 100% convinced that the added Feats from pulling back to 8/12, or even 2/6/12 (with a Rogue splash for a more solid skill base, at the cost of slowing down TWF access and BAB progression), is so far behind in average output, but the pure carnage on FE targets here looks like it would be almost overwhelming... and certainly not something to sneeze at against others. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around completely setting aside the Fighter-added feats and enhancements.

It's actually very misleading to think of the Fighter feats as "added." Fighter basically doesn't bring much to the table *except* feats -- that's what makes it work. So what you have to do is check whether the fighter's feats are better than what other class levels bring. In this case, it's not even close in my opinion. Of the 3 "extra" feats, two of them are Focus and Specialization for extra DPS. But the added levels of Ranger bring a total of +3 (vs. Favored) and so even more DPS! But that's not even half the story. With the massive hits of this build, an extra attack of Tempest III is a HUGE amount of additional DPS. Fighter 8, even with the handy Haste Boost III, isn't even close. Then you'll need to spend that 3rd "extra" feat on Lightning Reflexes in order to even come close to what Ranger offers.

So all those feats later, you haven't even caught up to Ranger 18, much less "added" anything. Now, if you get to Kensai II, the story is different. For one thing, that's the full Haste Boost IV, AND lots of extra uses of it. Then there's that +8 STR. That's why Kensai II/Tempest I/Monk is such a great build. But Kensai I just can't compare to level 13-18 of Ranger.

[Sir_Chonas]

Would barbarian be good for other 2 levels, or should you take rogue? Also, why don't you suggest a higher dexterity for the twf line (do those come standard to rangers of a certain level)? What was the optimal division of ranger/fighter for this build was it 12 fighter/6 ranger? I may be more confused than when I started. . .

[Thanimal]

Originally Posted by Sir_Chonas

Would barbarian be good for other 2 levels, or should you take rogue? Also, why don't you suggest a higher dexterity for the twf line (do those come standard to rangers of a certain level)? What was the optimal division of ranger/fighter for this build was it 12 fighter/6 ranger? I may be more confused than when I started. . .

The build I've been talking about here is the Dwarf Ranger 18/Fighter 2 build. I really like this build -- if I ever get around to rerolling my DPS build, this is what I'm going to do. The big thing I like is that you not only bring crazy DPS, but also a ton of utility (aka Barkskin and Resist) and some half-decent saving throws (with Evasion). And at low levels you actually have good AC, making it easy to zerg to higher levels and then start joining groups. And while The Exploiter (18Ra/1Ro/1M) is an awesome build, I find myself more interested in getting as much (non-sneak) DPS as possible out of Ranger levels and I'm willing to forego some of the cool features of The Exploiter.

Read back over the thread -- I think the details all are there. I'm happy to answer any questions (when I have time, of course).

[SangRahl]

...day-long writing in between "work", and still wasn't able to post within 24hrs. Thank goodness for Notepad. Heheheh.

First, it's nice to see someone explain/suggest rather than the more common "Dude, it sucks, that's why." response... +1rep for that.

Originally Posted by Thanimal

Always consider UMD. I can argue it's the best skill in the game.

I think you are dramatically over-rating skills in this game. Most of them are of marginal value at best. With 5 skill points per level, I'd start with the skills you actually want here: alternative 1 point into Jump and Balance, and put 1 into UMD. Then you've got 3 more skill points that are delving into "nice to have." I suppose you could go Hide/Move Silenty, although personally I think Stealth is pretty useless. Diplomacy is totally useless here. Your job is to stand there and kill stuff, not try to weasel out of it!! Investing more than 1 point in Tumble would be a waste. Heal is VERY optional on a build that can outright CAST Cure spells and has full access to Cure wands.

Personally, I'd probably have my "other skills" be Spot (1 per level) and Intimidate (2 per level to get 1 rank per level). Spot is marginal, but handy, especially for soloing. Intimidate will rarely be used, but is quite powerful in some cases to save your squishy party members. I wouldn't mind if I didn't have it, but I think it's better than the other skills.

As I said, I'm generally a stealthy rogue-based player looking for something a little different, so having very limited number of skill points, and the vast majority of them being cross-class, is completely new to me.
- Heal is one of those skills that I always wish I had a bit more of while soloing, even when swapping out a max-level +heal item to rest... having this many Ranger Levels of this as a Class skill just makes it a bit more temptiign to dabble in.
- Tumble is one I'd prefer to have usable through the mid-levels, if only for the added mobility through boggy areas... and just putting a single point in would only have me do the 'encumbered jig' (when you try and tumble, and just kinda lunge a few feet) rather than roll.
- Balance I would drop a half-point in until I got to ~10. Having it be cross-class would slow getting to the threshold, but with how I can't put more than a single point (or half-point) into most skills I'm not worried about it.
- Diplomacy was semi-instinctual, due to having a pretty high-DPS... but I can see that it would be used about as often as Intimidate, and not as useful in those rare occasions.
-UMD is hard to justify, since it would be nigh impossible to reach Race/Alignment thresholds without use of +cha or rare +umd items. -2 base skill, then only 0.5 per skill raise due to cross-class.
- Jump is a given... Has to be one of my favorite skills, short of DD/Search/Spot.
- Spot is another given... Too useful when you can see them coming frst, and either tag 'em with ranged, or find a better vantage to face the coming mobs.

In the end, I'll have to agree... Jump, Spot, Balance/Intimidate/Tumble will be my taken skills, in order of importance, with a bit more consideration about UMD with a little more research about UMD skill self-buffing.

Originally Posted by Thanimal

It's actually very misleading to think of the Fighter feats as "added." Fighter basically doesn't bring much to the table *except* feats -- that's what makes it work. So what you have to do is check whether the fighter's feats are better than what other class levels bring. In this case, it's not even close in my opinion. Of the 3 "extra" feats, two of them are Focus and Slashing for extra DPS. But the added levels of Ranger bring a total of +3 (vs. Favored) and so even more DPS! But that's not even half the story. With the massive hits of this build, an extra attack of Tempest III is a HUGE amount of additional DPS. Fighter 8, even with the handy Haste Boost III, isn't even close. Then you'll need to spend that 3rd "extra" feat on Lightning Reflexes in order to even come close to what Ranger offers.

So all those feats later, you haven't even caught up to Ranger 18, much less "added" anything. Now, if you get to Kensai II, the story is different. For one thing, that's the full Haste Boost IV, AND lots of extra uses of it. Then there's that +8 STR. That's why Kensai II/Tempest I/Monk is such a great build. But Kensai I just can't compare to level 13-18 of Ranger.

I'm certainly conceding the point on Fighter vs. Ranger levels. I haven't the experience with high level content to consider otherwise. It's a bit more constricting than I had originally dreamed up, and the near-dependence on FE targets for optimal damage was (almost always) a bad idea in PnP... the DM would, more often than not, render the ranger impotent in retaliation. ("It's okay, guys... I'm fully stacked and Goblinoids are my bitterest enemy, we'll chew through the tribe like +1Flaming through butter... Wait, the chief has a WHAT for a pet?")

I was a little surprised to not see a response regarding my preference to swap Fighter2 & Ranger2 for earlier 'OTWF' access (with the tradeoff of 'Iron Will' coming far later down the line at 9th, and the other non-Tempest Feats coming a step later.). TWF+Dwarven Waraxes is the core behind the character's creation, and it's hard for me to put off TWF use longer than necessary. It's bad enough that most responses in-game regarding 'OTWF' are for the most part negative, like it's the worst thing you could do to a TWF'er. (I see it as a +2 to attack, even more efficient than a Weapon Focus, except, perhaps for PrE access or further tiers of Weapon Focus.)

Would this follow under the catagory of "You could do that, but it's not a good idea", or is it more "That's not just dangerous, but stupid"? (And if so, why?)

[Thanimal]

Originally Posted by SangRahl

First, it's nice to see someone explain/suggest rather than the more common "Dude, it sucks, that's why." response... +1rep for that.

Thanks!

Heal is one of those skills that I always wish I had a bit more of while soloing, even when swapping out a max-level +heal item to rest...

But now you have wands and cure spells! Rest to get spell points, then heal yourself right up! Heal is very marginal on any character and even more so on a Ranger.

Tumble is one I'd prefer to have usable through the mid-levels, if only for the added mobility through boggy areas...

Jumping works about as well without a single point in it.

UMD is hard to justify, since it would be nigh impossible to reach Race/Alignment thresholds without use of +cha or rare +umd items. -2 base skill, then only 0.5 per skill raise due to cross-class.

Depends on your interest in end-game. There is some uber equipment out there such that 11 ranks can be EXTREMELY valuable at 20.

..the near-dependence on FE targets for optimal damage was (almost always) a bad idea in PnP... the DM would, more often than not, render the ranger impotent in retaliation.

It's critically important to remember: There is no DM. Also, this build is FAR from "dependent" on FE status -- it will out-DPS most run-of-the-mill stuff against EVERYTHING. FE status just pushes over into "uber."

I was a little surprised to not see a response regarding my preference to swap Fighter2 & Ranger2 for earlier 'OTWF' access (with the tradeoff of 'Iron Will' coming far later down the line at 9th, and the other non-Tempest Feats coming a step later.).

Didn't comment because I don't care. Switching things around to earlier levels is pure personal preference. You need oTWF eventually since it's the best prereq to Tempest III, so take it wherever you want. The thing you probably don't realize is that eventually any pure melee build like this hits everything on a 2, so +2 to-hit is a marginal benefit at best. But in the early game it's better, so if you don't mind delaying some other stuff, go for it!

You did just remind that Dwarven Axe Damage is a critically important enhancement and that Dwarve Axe To-Hit might be worth the points, too.

[Thanimal]

One other thing. It's not TOO expensive to respec your favored enemies. If you wanna go completely crazy, you could tailor them to the content as you go. For example, you could pick Goblinoids first (covering Kobolds and Hobgoblins), then swap your first FE to Undead and take Giants as your second one. Then Evil Outsiders. You could even swap Giants to Constructs for shroud runs, and then retake Giants as your 4th one.

This is totally unnecessary, btw. But if you wanna "cheat" a little, it could make your leveling up even easier than it already will be. (And it should be pretty easy -- wand-healable DPS machine with half-decent AC and saves is a quick way to get to level 10ish.)

[SangRahl]

Originally Posted by Thanimal

Jumping works about as well without a single point in it.

Jumping works well enough, but prior to getting ahold of a godsent Feather Falling item, it's pretty marginal. But, diving in and rolling can have me outpace a party through bogs. Not critically important, but when I'm making runs alone, I always hated those sections of having to hop like a spastic bunny to feel like I was getting anywhere at all. Once I discovered tumbling through, crossing shallows practically slow me at all. A slight upside is also a marginal increase in damageless falling height, where a huggable wall isn't available.

Depends on your interest in end-game. There is some uber equipment out there such that 11 ranks can be EXTREMELY valuable at 20.

Raiding is not really on the table... I may consider it further down the line, but I'm primarily a mid-day/late-night player with the need to have almost instantaneous /afk capability. Normal nighttime play and weekends is pretty well right out... negating about 90% of any traditional raid times. But I can deal with that.

Didn't comment because I don't care. Switching things around to earlier levels is pure personal preference. You need oTWF eventually since it's the best prereq to Tempest III, so take it wherever you want. The thing you probably don't realize is that eventually any pure melee build like this hits everything on a 2, so +2 to-hit is a marginal benefit at best. But in the early game it's better, so if you don't mind delaying some other stuff, go for it!

You did just remind that Dwarven Axe Damage is a critically important enhancement and that Dwarve Axe To-Hit might be worth the points, too.

Well, should I get to the point that OTWF isn't needed to make non-critical-fails at 20th, I may switch to Defence for the +1ac. Until then, yeah, I'll likely be taking OTWF in trade for hating Hold Person just a little bit more. Heheheh.

And, yes, Dwarven Axe enhancements will be maxed, preferably on, or soon after, the levels that they become available. (The hardest part of planning a build has to be playing the enhancement shuffle to find the happy medium between point allocation and character/class level access.)

[SangRahl]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I wanted to give an update on the stout combatant that was put together here with everyone's help.

Let me introduce Kaljnir "Kael" Swiftaxe: Dwarven dervish, slayer of Kobolds, and all-around nice guy (except when he's not).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Kaljnir "Kael" Swiftaxe
Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 232 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 15
Will: 7

                  Starting       Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats       Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)          (Level 20)
Strength             17                 24
Dexterity            14                 18
Constitution         15                 18
Intelligence          9                 10
Wisdom               11                 12
Charisma              6                  6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Strength used at (or above) level 4
+1 Tome of Constitution used at (or above) level 4

Dex, Int, and Wis tomes already acquired cheaply.
Str and Con will come as they are afforded from the AH. 


                  Starting        Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills      Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)
Balance               4                 19
Bluff                -2                 -2
Concentration         2                  6
Diplomacy            -2                 -2
Disable Device       n/a                n/a
Haggle               -2                 -2
Heal                  0                  5
Hide                  2                  4
Intimidate           -2                 21
Jump                  7                 30
Listen                0                  1
Move Silently         2                  4
Open Lock            n/a                n/a
Perform              n/a                n/a  
Repair               -1                  0
Search               -1                  2
Spot                  4                 22
Swim                  7                 12
Tumble                4                  6
Use Magic Device     n/a                n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


*** Enhancement Respec Immediately Prior to Lvl.11 - REMOVE ***
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I

*** Enhancement Respec Immediately Prior to Lvl.11 - REPLACE ***
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I 
>>Note: The above is situationally gear-dependant... 
To be done ONLY if Dex Bonus is not being held back by the limit of the available Light Armor. 
Dwarven Armor Mastery II is to be retaken at any such point that the added Dex Bonus is of use. 
All other Enhancements will be shuffled down the line, as needed.<<

Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I

Level 12 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 16 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III


Level 20 (Ranger)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III

Reiteration: Dwarven Armor Mastery II is to be retaken at any such point that the added Dex Bonus is of use... 
All other Enhancements to be shuffled down the line, as needed.

A few notes...

Tomes: The Dex, Int, and Wis Tomes were acquired from the AH for just slightly more than a song. (Maybe a DreamTheater ballad, at most...) Gotta love Base Value minimum-bid / no-buyout auctions, that don't get into a bidding war in the last hour. Spent about half as much on those three Tomes as most individual tomes start their bidding. This is quite a nice change, as the original concept was going to call for the use of a +1 Supreme Ability Tome from the DDO Store. (a chunk of TPs that I would rather go toward opening up content, than for the use of a single character)

Skills: UMD was considered for allocation, but with the recent fixing of the UMD Check system, I've decided to forgo taking a skill that won't be of any use until max-level and with the addition of pots, spells, and rarer loot drops, and then only as long as said buffs last. Instead, I've gone with keeping Jump, Balance, Spot, and Intimidate up to snuff. Intimidate may only get rare uses, but that type of on-the-fly utility appeals to me for the character.

Enhancement Respec: Until ML11 (Ranger9), armor will be as heavy and as tough as can be found... making Armor Mastery and Armored Agility a necessary expenditure to maximize the Dex Bonus, and reduce the hefty Armor Penalty to more managable levels. Once Light Armor becomes the norm due to the Evasion prerequisite, the Armor Penalty becomes moot (-5 down to only -1), and the Dex Bonus threshold will be above or very nearly even with my inate Dexterity for the level. Unless I'm sporting some serious +Dex gear, I'd prefer swapping to the more immediate usefulness of spell resistances. But, once the Dex Bonus inches high enough, then the Armor Mastery is right back in contention for AP use.

- - - - -

Kaljnir "Kael" Swiftaxe just cleared WW (50/50 Normal/Hard) prior to the downtime... He's hit 4th, is finally out of the gawd-awful "+2 Purple Platemail of Dooooom" and is sporting a pair of righteous elemental Waraxes (with a racial +4 shield as backup), and just barely gained enough Coin Lord reputation to earn his 4th Bag. (Yay! No more having to pick what to destroy to be able to loot a chest... for a little while, anyways.)

[stormarcher]

Try this out:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...hlight=extinct