PDA

View Full Version : Request a Build - Get a Build



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Nodoze
08-13-2014, 12:45 AM
Good call on builds that satisfy the requirement, and I have appreciated your personal feedback on the comparative strengths of the options in those threads and here. I have one minor quibble/question RE:

To the best of my knowledge, the level 1 spell "Obscuring Mist" (http://ddowiki.com/page/Obscuring_Mist) also provides a 20% Concealment effect (http://ddowiki.com/page/Concealment) that works on bosses too. It has a shorter duration than Cloudkill and does no damage, but it ought to allow the Meteor Shower builds the same Concealment benefit versus bosses. This is one reason quoted in support of taking a caster splash on some builds, and IIRC is also a reason why people sometime recommend keeping any Obscuring Mist clickies you find.Thanks and good points (+1 for you). The main advantage of Cloudkill over Obscuring Mist is, besides lasting twice as long during a long boss fight, is that the damage component of CloudKill (and IceStorm) both can proc Shiradi effects from both the Epic Destiny Shiradi Champion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shiradi_Champion)'s Double Rainbow (http://ddowiki.com/page/Double_Rainbow) stance & the Epic Past Life Colors of the Queen (http://ddowiki.com/page/Colors_of_the_Queen) stance (which both seem to stack and that stacking is dev quoted as WAI).

We just duo'ed Devil's Assault (both switching to Shiradi, both wearing a Deception & Improved Deception items, both with Celestia's in the off hands, etc) and the chaos was utterly crazy/amazing... We had foxes and frogs join our sides and were picking up 100's of deviled hams between rounds while trying to catch our breaths from laughing. I really noticed my Epic Past Life Colors of the Queen (http://ddowiki.com/page/Colors_of_the_Queen) when not in Shiradi so, even though 2 characters in our trio really need Martial past lives (for future builds), we are switching to focus on getting each of us Primal Karma this life so when we do our next eR we will all have at least 1 Colors of the Queen (http://ddowiki.com/page/Colors_of_the_Queen) ePL (I will have 2 at that point)... Our thought process was that, over the long run, it will help us get future ePLs faster than any other interim ePLs... We will likely switch my one daughter back to Shadow Dancer after that but having everyone contribute to random procs should add even more CC and fun stuff.

EDIT: Also tonight my daughter and I both had several procs of something that likely saved our lives more than once that I had forgotten in my benefits/mitigation list above... I added the following to my previous post:



Edit: Arcane Barrier: Both have have the passive protection when HP drop below 50% they are immediately protected by an Arcane Barrier that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for the next 10/15/20 seconds. This effect may only trigger once every 150/120/90 seconds.


I can not quantify how beneficial this is as it auto-procs when you really need it and can proc again 70 seconds after it fades... Besides further reducing incoming damage by another 25% over all the stuff when things really go south is it is a great heads up for those of us who may lose sight of our red bar when things get very heated... Now like pavlov's dog I immediately hit Reconstruct anytime I see that sphere pop and that alone is priceless! Right next to Quickened-Reconstruct I have hot bar'ed Quickened-Maximized-Repair-Critical so even with the extended cool downs of Tensors I can 'full heal' instantly via hot bar at least twice back to back... (I also carry at least 100 Reconstruct scrolls & get +75% with them)...

Caprice
08-14-2014, 10:57 AM
Thanks and good points (+1 for you). The main advantage of Cloudkill over Obscuring Mist is, besides lasting twice as long during a long boss fight, is that the damage component of CloudKill (and IceStorm) both can proc Shiradi effects from both the Epic Destiny Shiradi Champion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shiradi_Champion)'s Double Rainbow (http://ddowiki.com/page/Double_Rainbow) stance & the Epic Past Life Colors of the Queen (http://ddowiki.com/page/Colors_of_the_Queen) stance (which both seem to stack and that stacking is dev quoted as WAI).
I had not thought about Cloudkill triggering Shiradi effects - very nice. I totally agree that Cloudkill is providing a lot more value, but I wanted to point out Obscuring Mist because it is often overlooked as a useful boss debuff. I know that I have to be reminded about it periodically, but it provides a lot of value at all levels for a level 1 spell slot and the Meteor Shower build playing solo ought to be able to use it to good effect.

However I need to correct myself : in fact I was misremembering the clickie suggestion. It is not Obscuring Mist that people kept mentioning to me in the past as worth collecting, it was Solid Fog (http://ddowiki.com/page/Solid_Fog). There is an additional debuff included in Solid Fog and it can be used to grab aggro, but it should not proc Shiradi effects so Cloudkill is going to be strictly better in your circumstances.

I'm glad to hear that you're having so much fun with the Colors EPL. I just ETR'd into it for the first time but have not had a chance to take it for a spin yet. Soon!

unbongwah
08-14-2014, 02:57 PM
I definitely want her to have repeating heavy crossbow. Currently she is level 10: 5 Bard/3 Sorcerer/2 Barbarian. I think I only took Barbarian for toughness. So replacing Barbarian is fine. I do not remember what way i added levels but I have heard that if you multiclass with Rogue, even a splash, then that should be the first class you start with to get extra skills. Basically she is a Bard that heals and buffs with as much range damage as possible from the repeaters. Sorcerer levels give mana ability to heal Warforged. I have access to +3 tomes for all ability scores. Hope this helps....let me know if you need more and how I should start over. I do want to maximize her potential....bet or no. I have never played with Artificer so have no knowledge of the workings or style of that class. Besides the +3 tomes she is a 32 point build.
Normally you do want to start w/rogue @ first level, but in this case it's not possible. Because of the way the LR process works, you can never have more than three classes in your build at any given time; so you would have to get rid of one of them before you could switch to rog.

Artificer (http://ddowiki.com/page/Artificer) is a pretty nice class: a mix of spells, trap skills, and ranged DPS using crossbows+runearms (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rune_arm). But it's also a P2P class for everyone.

To be honest, I'm stumped as to how to "save" your char. :( If you wanted a Swashbuckler, I'd suggest you LR into a pure bard like the Count of MC (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler); or a caster bard like the one I posted above (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5399794&viewfull=1#post5399794); or even a Bardcher if you were willing to switch to bows. But I don't see an easy way of mixing rog (or arty) into your build; and without either your ranged DPS will suffer quite a bit. I'll have to think about it a bit more & see what if anything I can come up with.

Rash
08-14-2014, 04:00 PM
Hey mate's i'm new player, but a big fan of NWN / DnD series and games. I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search. Please help.

Cheers Rash

01bethdefranco
08-14-2014, 04:10 PM
Hi Unbongwah

well in game are you able to drop classes...like the barbarian class and then add one of the others. I am not familiar with the process. I definitely want to maximize her use of heavy repeaters. Spell wise I think she is good with a mix of heal, sonic and force spells. I think electrical as well. I carry a lot of wands too. I am already paying for a subscription and have access to Artificer...even Druid. I do not think I prefer the Swashbuckler build. If you explain to me how to remove the Barbarian class in game I can do that...it is only 2 levels. Currently I am progressing toward my 11th level which was going to be a 4th level in Sorcerer. If you want to spend time I will definitely be a good pupil.

Tanya

Varinon
08-14-2014, 04:20 PM
Hey mate's i'm new player, but a big fan of NWN / DnD series and games. I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search. Please help.

Cheers Rash

Welcome to the game. A few things to note that's different about DDO and NWN/DnD tanking, is that AC is much, much, much less important. In DDO we have a stat called Physical Resistance Rating (PRR) that will reduce the damage you take by a percentage (somewhat like immunity in NWN), dodge and concealment and incorporeality also are very important for tanks, where in NWN/DnD dodge doesn't exist, and incorporeality is only for monsters like Shadows. That being said, it's a good time to start a paladin tank. Next update is basically focused on upgrading paladins and heavy-armor tanks in general. I'll edit in a build here once I make one, but knowing the differences is more important than the build itself (in my opinion).

I wish someone had told me this when I started.. My first character was a rogue with a shield. Agh.

Edit: This isn't pretty because the builder (and the game) haven't been updated to have all this stuff in it, but it's in the plans for the next update at the moment.

Rash, Paladin Tank
Race: Elf
Class: Paladin 20
Skills: Heal, Concentration, Intimidate
Str: 16
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Feats:
1) Power Attack
3) Two-Handed Fighting
6) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
9) Improved Two-Handed Fighting
12) Improved Critical: Slashing
15) Extend Spell
18) Greater Two-Handed Fighting
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) Empower Healing Spell
26) Perfect Two-Handed Fighting (You may not be able to take this right away--respec a feat later)
27) Blinding Speed
28) Elusive Target (You may not be able to take this right away--respec a feat later)

Enhancements: 80

Elf: 19
-Elven Accuracy I
-Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III
-Valenar Weapon Training IV
-Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
-Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
-Fey Sight
-Skill

Knight of the Chalice: 19
-Slayer of Evil I
-Extra Smite II
-Extra Turning II
-Courage of Heaven
-Divine Might III
-Exalted Cleave I
-Vigor of Life
-Strength I
-Divine Sacrifice I

Sacred Defender: 42
-Holy Bastion
-Sacred Armor Mastery III
-Extra Lay on Hands III
-Sacred Defense
-Improved Sacred Defense: Durable Defense III
-Improved Sacred Defense: Inciting Defense
-Bulwark Aura III
-Greater Sacred Defense: Strong Defense III
-Charisma II
-Greater Sacred Defense: Tenacious Defense III
-Reinforced Defense: Reinforced Armor III
-Harbored By Light III
-Greater Sacred Defense: Hardy Defense III
-Divine Righteousness
-Redemption
-Glorious Stand
-Resistance Aura II
-Eternal Defender

Build uses Falchions! Elf for displacement clickies. Full plate for PRR/MRR!

Nodoze
08-14-2014, 04:22 PM
I had not thought about Cloudkill triggering Shiradi effects - very nice. I totally agree that Cloudkill is providing a lot more value, but I wanted to point out Obscuring Mist because it is often overlooked as a useful boss debuff. I know that I have to be reminded about it periodically, but it provides a lot of value at all levels for a level 1 spell slot and the Meteor Shower build playing solo ought to be able to use it to good effect.

However I need to correct myself : in fact I was misremembering the clickie suggestion. It is not Obscuring Mist that people kept mentioning to me in the past as worth collecting, it was Solid Fog (http://ddowiki.com/page/Solid_Fog). There is an additional debuff included in Solid Fog and it can be used to grab aggro, but it should not proc Shiradi effects so Cloudkill is going to be strictly better in your circumstances.

I'm glad to hear that you're having so much fun with the Colors EPL. I just ETR'd into it for the first time but have not had a chance to take it for a spin yet. Soon!The previous +1 was for reminding me & others of Obscuring Mist as I plan to add it to my daughter's spell repertoire (assuming I can free up a slot) on her Meteor-I for Bosses in case I am not on or when I am on that account instead of my main. I had overlooked that...

The Credit regarding knowing that both CloudKill & IceStorm can proc Shiradi effects go to the originators & contributors in Firewall's WarCannon (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441894-Shiradi-Warcannon) thread & psykoosi's Dread Ninja (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441309-Dread-Ninja-%2812wiz-6monk-2pal%29-shuriken-build) thread. The DN thread briefly mentioned the benefits of AoEs for throwers so I asked for more details on options/combos in both threads & Firewall spelled out the Shiradi damage angle the most clearly... I only then tried out the combos after getting guidance/tidbits & then shared my experiences...

On my WarCannon I just slotted all 3 Boss Concealment AoEs we are discussing (Obscuring Mist, Solid Fog, & Cloudkill) and jumped into the Cannith Wilderness and confirmed my suspicion that Cloudkill also has superior Optics...

I did this test because one thing that I hated on my old graphics card was when Kobold Shaman put up Obscuring Mist as I felt blind (though it isn't as bad on my newer machine)... Both Solid Fog's white AoE and Obscuring Mist's black AoE manifest in a spherical cloud affect that covers the entire area (worse from some angles then others at times) while Cloudkill only does this pale green cloud that hugs the floor and I find that AoE much more friendly to fight in...

Please share feedback on your experiences with the Colors EPL... In Epics I don't know if I can really tell which stance is procing a given effect since I have both (the Shiradi or the ePL) and I think it is also difficult to tell with one or more folk in Shiradi in the party... The real feel on how often it procs would be while in a party with no shiradi in epics which I can't really give much feedback on as we pretty much always have at least 1 shiradi these days... IIRC I eRed then TRed and I believe the stance was working while in Heroics as it was very obvious & devastating when it proced in Heroics and it seemed pretty often as a thrower which is the best isolated feedback I can give (& I was only in Heroics briefly as I heroicXPstoned my 3rd life to 18+ to get back to Epics ASAP)...

unbongwah
08-14-2014, 04:42 PM
I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search.
See my Dwarven Defender and Sacred Defender threads for examples of S&B tank builds. Bear in mind three things:

Paladins & fighters are due for a revamp next update: the Stalwart / Sacred Defender and KotC PrEs are getting tweaked and a new PrE (Vanguard) is being added.
Armor is also being revamped to give hvy armor and S&B toons better defenses.
S&B tanks will probably continue to be the redheaded stepchildren of DDO (or at least the forums), due to their low DPS and the narrowly-perceived niche into which they fall. :rolleyes:

Nodoze
08-14-2014, 04:43 PM
Hey mate's i'm new player, but a big fan of NWN / DnD series and games. I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search. Please help.

Cheers Rash
Welcome to the game. A few things to note that's different about DDO and NWN/DnD tanking, is that AC is much, much, much less important. In DDO we have a stat called Physical Resistance Rating (PRR) that will reduce the damage you take by a percentage (somewhat like immunity in NWN), dodge and concealment and incorporeality also are very important for tanks, where in NWN/DnD dodge doesn't exist, and incorporeality is only for monsters like Shadows. That being said, it's a good time to start a paladin tank. Next update is basically focused on upgrading paladins and heavy-armor tanks in general. I'll edit in a build here once I make one, but knowing the differences is more important than the build itself (in my opinion).

I wish someone had told me this when I started.. My first character was a rogue with a shield. Agh.
See my Dwarven Defender and Sacred Defender threads for examples of S&B tank builds. Bear in mind three things:

Paladins & fighters are due for a revamp next update: the Stalwart / Sacred Defender and KotC PrEs are getting tweaked and a new PrE (Vanguard) is being added.
Armor is also being revamped to give hvy armor and S&B toons better defenses.
S&B tanks will probably continue to be the redheaded stepchildren of DDO (or at least the forums), due to their low DPS and the narrowly-perceived niche into which they fall. https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.png

Rash, Welcome to DDO! You already have some great responses (one came while I was typing this so I edited my post) and I figured I would give you some feedback also...

You do indeed have excellent timing (if things go as they are projected and happen soon(TM). AC is very useful up to a point in Heroics (levels 1-20) so hopefully by the time you get to where AC isn't currently that useful (not sure what level) the new update with the Paladin and AC changes will drop... If things get delayed or you level too fast you may find yourself wanting to Lesser Reincarnate to a DPS version until they make the changes (that is what my buddy had to do to keep enjoying playing his Paladin when tanking really didn't help much anymore)...

One thing that I will caution regarding AC tanks, especially AC Tanks "good enough to tank end game" is that AC Tanks are more gear intensive and benefit more from past lives then some other builds...

For example, my AC Tank is currently "offline" as I switched that character temporarily to a DPS build to more quickly move through Heroic Total Reincarnations (TRs) to upgrade from a 32 point build to a 34 point build to a 36 point build as well as to Epic Reincarnate (ER) to grind out fate points and Epic Past Lives (ePLs) faster... Once I get those ground out I will ER then immediately TR one last time back into a significantly upgraded AC Tank (and hopefully by then the Paladin and AC changes have dropped)...

One site you may want to book mark is www.ddowiki.com (http://www.ddowiki.com) as it is a great resource on many topics...

Not to get ahead of yourself or overload you with too much info upfront but someone aspiring to end game may be well served to understanding Reincarnations:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Reincarnation

The above being said you may be better served doing a different build for your first life to grind out gear and what not (especially if timing doesn't go your way)... I like AC Tanks but I found mine on my first life underpowered and too slow to progress though the lives to get upgraded... If I were new to the game and wanted to play a Paladin, one build that I would consider starting out with on my first character on a first life would be something like the following:

Evasion Paladin for new players (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422682-Evasion-Paladin-for-new-players)

Caprice
08-14-2014, 05:01 PM
Hi Unbongwah

well in game are you able to drop classes...like the barbarian class and then add one of the others. I am not familiar with the process. I definitely want to maximize her use of heavy repeaters. Spell wise I think she is good with a mix of heal, sonic and force spells. I think electrical as well. I carry a lot of wands too. I am already paying for a subscription and have access to Artificer...even Druid. I do not think I prefer the Swashbuckler build. If you explain to me how to remove the Barbarian class in game I can do that...it is only 2 levels. Currently I am progressing toward my 11th level which was going to be a 4th level in Sorcerer. If you want to spend time I will definitely be a good pupil.

Tanya
I'm not Unbongwah but I'll butt in, and hopefully in enough detail to make some sense. ;-)

When you Lesser Reincarnate (LR), you are temporarily sent back to level 1 and then quickly level through all the levels one by one until you catch up with the highest level you have now. At each level you can decide whether you want to keep the class you picked originally, or you can pick a new one. When we talk about LR+X where X is some number, that number means that you get to change the class you picked at each level up only up to the X times total. To get rid of 2 Barbarian levels you need a LR+3, LR+5, or the free LR+20 that was given out some time ago, if you have one.

Unfortunately you don't get to drop all the levels of a class at once. You start from level 1 and can only change them one at a time, and you are restricted to 3 different classes maximum even considering later levels. So the first time you come to a Barbarian level, you can only change it to Bard or Sorceror because you have that second Barbarian level you took later that locks you in. And you cannot change any Bard or Sorceror levels you took between the 2 Barbarian levels into anything else but Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror because that later level of Barbarian is your 3rd of 3 possible classes at one time. But if you change the first Barbarian level to Bard or Sorceror, then when you get to the second Barbarian level you can change it to any class you qualify for because there is no later Barbarian level that locks you in anymore and whatever new class you pick becomes your 3rd class.

So hypothetically, let's suppose you have a LR+3 and your original leveling order was: Barbarian, Bard, Bard, Barbarian, Bard, Bard, Bard, Sorc, Sorc, Sorc. When you hit level 1, you can only pick from Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror because of the 3 class limit. So you use 1 of your 3 changes to make that Bard. Now you get to pick for level 2, and again your only options are Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror because you have that later level of Barbarian restricting you. So you stick with Bard. The same thing happens at level 3, and you stay with Bard again. Then you come to the other Barbarian level that you took at level 4, and now you can change it to anything because all of your other levels are just Bard or Sorceror. So you can switch that to Rogue (or whatever, but let's go with Rogue). That used up a 2nd of your 3 allowed changes from the LR+3. From here on you can only pick Bard, Rogue, or Sorceror, but you also only have one more time you can change a class pick. So lets say that you decide to use the last change on level 5 to switch that Bard level to Rogue to work on your trap skills. From then on you have to stick to the class you had previously chosen for each level, and that means 6-10 are Bard, Bard, Sorc, Sorc, and Sorc. You are now a Bard 5 / Sorceror 3 / Rogue 2. But unfortunately you could not change the very first level to Rogue, which means that you will be playing catchup on trap skills for a long time and may not be able to do them well until very high levels.

Or more visually:
1: was Barbarian -> can only pick Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror -> change to Bard (change 1 of 3)
2: was Bard -> can only pick Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror -> leave as Bard
3: was Bard -> can only pick Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror -> leave as Bard
4: was Barbarian -> can pick any class -> change to Rogue (change 2 of 3)
5: was Bard -> can only pick Bard, Rogue, or Sorceror -> change to Rogue (change 3 of 3)
6: was Bard -> must leave as Bard due to no changes left -> leave as Bard
7: was Bard -> must leave as Bard due to no changes left -> leave as Bard
8: was Sorceror -> must leave as Sorceror due to no changes left -> leave as Sorceror
9: was Sorceror -> must leave as Sorceror due to no changes left -> leave as Sorceror
10: was Sorceror -> must leave as Sorceror due to no changes left -> leave as Sorceror

So as you see it may matter a lot where you took your Barbarian levels; if your first 2 levels were both Barbarian then you have levels 2 through 10 to make a lot of changes, but if you took them at 1 and 10 then you are not able to pick a new class until level 10.

With the LR+20 heart you never run out of changes so you could keep changing the Bard or Sorceror levels to Rogue after level 5, or to each other, but until you are picking for the last Barbarian level you are not able to pick any other class at all.

I don't know what to suggest for your build though. It feels to me like you are trying to fit too many things in, and I am worried that when you get to higher levels you may find that being half a Bard and half a Sorceror is less than the sum of the parts. OTOH you might do well in the Shiradi Champion Epic Destiny between lots of hits from Force spells and from your repeater.

unbongwah
08-14-2014, 05:03 PM
well in game are you able to drop classes...like the barbarian class and then add one of the others. I am not familiar with the process. I definitely want to maximize her use of heavy repeaters. Spell wise I think she is good with a mix of heal, sonic and force spells. I think electrical as well. I carry a lot of wands too. I am already paying for a subscription and have access to Artificer...even Druid. I do not think I prefer the Swashbuckler build. If you explain to me how to remove the Barbarian class in game I can do that...it is only 2 levels.
Unfortunately, Artificers and Favored Souls aren't free to VIPs; you still have to unlock them separately via Favor or the DDO store. [Account comparisons (http://ddowiki.com/page/Account_comparisons)]

When you LR (http://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Reincarnation), you re-level your char from 1 to whatever your current level is. If you use a basic Lesser Heart of Wood, you're not allowed to change any of your class choices, but must relevel in exactly the same order you took them in. But if you use a +X LHoW, you're able to change up to <X> # of class choices; so if you use an LR +20 on a lvl 20 char, you could change every class choice you made. But like I said, there's a catch: if you already have 3 classes in your build, you're not allowed to switch to a 4th class until after you have removed all levels in at least one of your original classes.

E.g., in your case, let's pretend you leveled bard 1-5, barb 1-2, sorc 1-3; and let's say you wanted to replace barb with rog. Normally, you would want to start rog to max out your skill pts; but in this case you wouldn't be allowed to do so during the LR process, because you'd be rog 1 / bard 4 / barb 2 / sorc 3 at that point. Basically the LR process isn't smart enough to realize you're trying to swap one class for another.

Instead, you'd have to do something like this during the LR:

1: bard (no change)
2: bard (no change)
3: bard (no change)
4: bard (no change)
5: bard (no change)
6: barb -> bard (cannot switch to rog yet b/c still have 2nd barb lvl)
7: barb -> rog (at this pt you can switch classes b/c you're eliminating barb from your build)
8: sorc (no change)
9: sorc (no change)
10: sorc (no change)

Does that make sense?

Moving onto spellcasting: it's generally a bad idea to combine two (or more) caster classes, particularly if you want to use DC-dependent DPS spells. Basically, rather than a versatile caster, you usually just wind up with a gimp one. :( So I would suggest you narrow your focus for your build to core competencies. Since you already have a sorc, I'd suggest focusing on the bard side of things.

01bethdefranco
08-14-2014, 07:19 PM
Hi Everyone

to Unbonwah and Caprice...both excellent responses and very informative. I did not know anything about LR. I have points to spare in the shop so I can buy one. As I mentioned I have all of the classes available and unlocked...even Druid. So if I am understanding both of you, I need a LR+3 and I can change Barbarian out in that process. So I need to decide which would maximize the character. Let me list the build as much as I can and show you what she has. I am not so good at copying things or screenshots, so it may be cumbersome. Anyway I made a screenshot of her stats but I do not know how to post it here. I can screenshot whatever is needed.

Tanya

ps. ok so now I have LR+3 any advice as to which class to replace Barbarian with and enhancements to take

Nodoze
08-14-2014, 08:35 PM
Hi Everyone

to Unbonwah and Caprice...both excellent responses and very informative. I did not know anything about LR. I have points to spare in the shop so I can buy one. As I mentioned I have all of the classes available and unlocked...even Druid. So if I am understanding both of you, I need a LR+3 and I can change Barbarian out in that process. So I need to decide which would maximize the character. Let me list the build as much as I can and show you what she has. I am not so good at copying things or screenshots, so it may be cumbersome. Anyway I made a screenshot of her stats but I do not know how to post it here. I can screenshot whatever is needed.

TanyaAye, Unbonwah and Caprice are princes among men when it comes to helping folk. I've been here since 2006 and still regularly learn something new from them and other great folk on the forums.

One thing that may help is to use the DDO Character Generator (CG) to, as best you can, document your character. It is a great tool that lets you create/recreate your character and goes level by level just like regular characters do.

When you get ready to share it you then Export the build as text that pastes well into the Forums.

The great folk on the forums can also give you some build ideas also via the CG... The link to download the DDO CG is:

http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/DDOCharGen.html

Batilla
08-14-2014, 11:22 PM
I'm looking to make a shadar-kai artificer pure build the first level in rogue that results from being a Shadar-Kai will be getting removed by a lesser reincarnation anyone know how to do a good Artificer? I'm looking for the build to be rather repeating crossbow and INT heavy if that is viable late game on a pure artificer. And on another note, is it viable to replace spot with Nothing is Hidden in the shadar-kai enhancement tree for a trap disarmer in general? not too familiar with it but it looks like it might be. Just wanted some advice thanks :)

edited for grammar

Varinon
08-15-2014, 09:29 AM
And on another note, is it viable to replace spot with Nothing is Hidden in the shadar-kai enhancement tree for a trap disarmer in general? not too familiar with it but it looks like it might be. Just wanted some advice thanks

Unfortunately, Nothing is Hidden uses your spot skill, so you can't just dump it and rely on the enhancement.

Caprice
08-15-2014, 09:40 AM
Unfortunately, Nothing is Hidden uses your spot skill, so you can't just dump it and rely on the enhancement.
I keep reading conflicting information about this ability, and I could swear that I have seen posts on the forums here claiming both ways. The wiki claims (http://ddowiki.com/page/Nothing_Is_Hidden) that it does use Search, but that the ability is buggy and does not activate consistently. I have never been inspired to test it and instead rely on the traditional solutions of either having a solid Spot skill, remembering the quests from previous runs, or "cheating" by looking quests up online.

Besides, I have yet to build a character that didn't have 6 AP worth of really nice abilities I wanted to pick up someplace else. ;-)

Varinon
08-15-2014, 09:59 AM
I keep reading conflicting information about this ability, and I could swear that I have seen posts on the forums here claiming both ways. The wiki claims (http://ddowiki.com/page/Nothing_Is_Hidden) that it does use Search, but that the ability is buggy and does not activate consistently. I have never been inspired to test it and instead rely on the traditional solutions of either having a solid Spot skill, remembering the quests from previous runs, or "cheating" by looking quests up online.

Besides, I have yet to build a character that didn't have 6 AP worth of really nice abilities I wanted to pick up someplace else. ;-)

From what I know, it works on both spot /and/ search, so you need search too. I've not personally tested that you need search, but from what I've read it seems you do.

Caprice
08-15-2014, 11:04 AM
I'm looking to make a shadar-kai artificer pure build the first level in rogue that results from being a Shadar-Kai will be getting removed by a lesser reincarnation anyone know how to do a good Artificer? I'm looking for the build to be rather repeating crossbow and INT heavy if that is viable late game on a pure artificer.
Are you sure that you want to LR+1 out of the Rogue level? Another option would be to add a second Rogue level so that you get Evasion. You would lose a little runearm damage (~10%), 1 bonus artificer feat, 1 bonus caster level from "Wondrous items" clickies (i.e. clothing, jewelry, and trinkets), and access to the Artificer Capstone enhancements. That last costs you 2 INT, and either a bonus of:
- +1 to the enhancement on your armor and weapon (=+1 damage and +3 spellpower), or
- +5 Spellcraft (=+5 spellpower) and having your clickies cast as Caster Level 20 rather than their natural CL.
These are nice bonuses but possibly not as nice as Evasion.

INT-heavy with heavy repeater and rune arm is viable (and more or less the standard approach AFAICT). However you almost certainly want high DEX too to qualify for IPS (min DEX 19) and Combat Archery (min DEX 21). IMO you could skimp on Combat Archery and you will not lose a lot of effectiveness, but IPS is extremely powerful and worth building for. Are you willing to use tomes to make those possible without undercutting INT much?

unbongwah
08-15-2014, 11:30 AM
Another option would be to add a second Rogue level so that you get Evasion. You would lose a little runearm damage (~10%), 1 bonus artificer feat, 1 bonus caster level from "Wondrous items" clickies (i.e. clothing, jewelry, and trinkets), and access to the Artificer Capstone enhancements.
You also lose two lvl 6 spell slots, so you have to pick two from Reconstruct, Deadly Weapons, Blade Barrier, and Tactical Detonation.

IMO you could skimp on Combat Archery and you will not lose a lot of effectiveness
CA is +1[W] which with, say, Needle (http://ddowiki.com/page/Needle) is worth an extra +6.5 dmg on avg. It's not a must-have, IMHO, but every little bit helps, and since SDK get +2 DEX, might as well aim for the top. :)

Nodoze
08-15-2014, 12:39 PM
I'm looking to make a shadar-kai artificer pure build the first level in rogue that results from being a Shadar-Kai will be getting removed by a lesser reincarnation anyone know how to do a good Artificer? I'm looking for the build to be rather repeating crossbow and INT heavy if that is viable late game on a pure artificer. And on another note, is it viable to replace spot with Nothing is Hidden in the shadar-kai enhancement tree for a trap disarmer in general? not too familiar with it but it looks like it might be. Just wanted some advice thanks :)

edited for grammarWelcome and lots of good replies already though I didn't see any actual builds posted yet.

The following is a Pure Artificer build that I have played and I liked the ShadowDancer Epic Destiny for it as I thought it gave the best balance of (less spiky) offense & defense including adding Evasion to a pure Artificer (as well as boosting trapping skills for Epics):

Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-Artificer (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer)

There is a good discussion in the Initial Post on "Alternative [Racial] Build Options" and though there is no specific section on Shadar-Kai I suspect they could fit into the discussion section for the other +2 Dex races...

I have not played a Shadar-Kai yet though I could maybe see some value in their Shadow Phase/Jaunt ability on a build that kites (could maybe save twisting 'Unearthly Reactions" though I also value the dodge/reflex bonuses). I didn't otherwise see anything in the Shardar-Kai racial tree that jumped out to me as especially useful to an Artificer build so you may be better served with another race unless you just need/want a Shadar-Kai artificer for some reason (Completionist/PLs/flavor/etc)... The above being said I played the WarForged (WF) version of this build on a 1st life and immensely enjoyed it (there are 1st life WF build options in the thread) and highly recommend it (it is hard to beat full self "heals" from Reconstructs)...

01bethdefranco
08-15-2014, 01:02 PM
Hi Unbongwah and Caprice

ok so I added the LR+3 but I am still unsure which class to replace Barbarian with. Whatever will maximize the character. Also...does rapid reload work with heavy repeaters. Also the feat that helps accuracy does it apply to crossbows as well.


Tanya

Caprice
08-15-2014, 01:06 PM
You also lose two lvl 6 spell slots, so you have to pick two from Reconstruct, Deadly Weapons, Blade Barrier, and Tactical Detonation.

CA is +1[W] which with, say, Needle (http://ddowiki.com/page/Needle) is worth an extra +6.5 dmg on avg. It's not a must-have, IMHO, but every little bit helps, and since SDK get +2 DEX, might as well aim for the top. :)
I'm still not a fan of pulling out the CitW weapons for build justification. Yes, they are great weapons but CitW isn't run that much, the drop rate on the CitW weapons is not that good, and not everyone has a few Raider's Boxes tucked away. I think a better example would be to point to the base weapons to try to justify the point, especially in this case since those numbers really aren't much lower than Needle and yet those weapons are multiple orders of magnitude more achievable to get. A random drop (or even TF) heavy repeater gets an average of +5.5 damage per shot from CA, and light repeaters get +4.5 avg per shot from CA. That's still a strong repeater DPS improvement and yet I didn't have to point to one of the least available weapons in the game for justification. :-P

My initial take would be an 8/18/14/18/8/6 attribute spread and a +3 DEX tome to qualify for CA, with all level-ups going into INT. However unless the requester is going to invest in a tome then you have to start sacrificing INT to qualify for CA. The "cheap" way to do so is to put level-ups into DEX instead (which is what I did on my own Arty because I was feeling miserly at the time), but then your INT is reduced by that much. It is a significant net plus on repeater DPS to go for CA even if you do sacrifice INT because you are only losing +1 damage and gaining +4.5 to +6.5 average damage, but you also lose DCs on your runearm and spells which reduces their damage (although by a hard to quantify amount) and makes your CC a bit less reliable as well (equally hard to quantify), as well as losing skill points and effective trapping skill levels, so IMO that all of those have to be considered. My "ideal" situation is using that +3 DEX tome and not giving up any INT but it isn't a given.

I guess I forgot how miserly the Artificer spell slots are. On a fleshie it's pretty easy to drop Reconstruct at least, unless you are running with WF/BF and responsible for keeping them alive or are picking up Construct Essence to self-repair at a less effective rate. I prefer to use wands & scrolls on my own fleshie Artificer, which isn't that hard to pull off even during combat given the ranged & caster focus, but there are times when that does fail me.

But I still think Evasion is strong and worth considering building for, especially when it saves you buying a LR+1. If nothing else a +3 DEX tome costs less to buy from the store than a LR+1 heart does. Of course you can always plan to run in the Shadowdancer ED in epics instead when you need Evasion, but to the best of my knowledge FotW is still considered a far better DPS choice, and you won't have the benefit of Evasion in heroics (or in fact until the middle/late epics, if this is a first life).

Nodoze
08-15-2014, 01:42 PM
I'm still not a fan of pulling out the CitW weapons for build justification. Yes, they are great weapons but CitW isn't run that much, the drop rate on the CitW weapons is not that good, and not everyone has a few Raider's Boxes tucked away. I think a better example would be to point to the base weapons to try to justify the point, especially in this case since those numbers really aren't much lower than Needle and yet those weapons are multiple orders of magnitude more achievable to get. A random drop (or even TF) heavy repeater gets an average of +5.5 damage per shot from CA, and light repeaters get +4.5 avg per shot from CA. That's still a strong repeater DPS improvement and yet I didn't have to point to one of the least available weapons in the game for justification. :-P

My initial take would be an 8/18/14/18/8/6 attribute spread and a +3 DEX tome to qualify for CA, with all level-ups going into INT. However unless the requester is going to invest in a tome then you have to start sacrificing INT to qualify for CA. The "cheap" way to do so is to put level-ups into DEX instead (which is what I did on my own Arty because I was feeling miserly at the time), but then your INT is reduced by that much. It is a significant net plus on repeater DPS to go for CA even if you do sacrifice INT because you are only losing +1 damage and gaining +4.5 to +6.5 average damage, but you also lose DCs on your runearm and spells which reduces their damage (although by a hard to quantify amount) and makes your CC a bit less reliable as well (equally hard to quantify), as well as losing skill points and effective trapping skill levels, so IMO that all of those have to be considered. My "ideal" situation is using that +3 DEX tome and not giving up any INT but it isn't a given.

I guess I forgot how miserly the Artificer spell slots are. On a fleshie it's pretty easy to drop Reconstruct at least, unless you are running with WF/BF and responsible for keeping them alive or are picking up Construct Essence to self-repair at a less effective rate. I prefer to use wands & scrolls on my own fleshie Artificer, which isn't that hard to pull off even during combat given the ranged & caster focus, but there are times when that does fail me.

But I still think Evasion is strong and worth considering building for, especially when it saves you buying a LR+1. If nothing else a +3 DEX tome costs less to buy from the store than a LR+1 heart does. Of course you can always plan to run in the Shadowdancer ED in epics instead when you need Evasion, but to the best of my knowledge FotW is still considered a far better DPS choice, and you won't have the benefit of Evasion in heroics (or in fact until the middle/late epics, if this is a first life).All good points and splashing 2 Rogue does have its merits and Evasion is always nice to have.

I agree FotW is better overall DPS but it is more spikey and can get you into trouble on EE and personally I feel ShadowDancer's steady DPS is under-rated/estimated by folk (yes it is behind but not as much as people make it out to be)... Yeah you won't see the big crits of FoTW and have lower burst damage (as long as you have Fusillades left and your "Epic Moment" is off it's 5 minute cool-down) but I felt the balance of ShadowDancer on a pure Artificer was better (+steady-low-aggro-sneaky-DPS +skills + Saves +Evasion +Int for DPS/DCs/SPs/Reflex-Saves)...

In my case I did it as my first life on my first character on a new server (no starting coin nor gear) and found the WF 007 a very friendly all-around build and great for both solo and group play as I had great self healing and trapping/buffing for all content levels and great AoE & CC for soloing EH and below... In guild EE runs people know the zerg tatics better than me so even though they rushed ahead I could still contribute with buffs and DPS from the back and when things went south I could dance in circles popping AoEs and BBs to keep aggro while reconstructing myself and scrolling rezes/Heals for everyone...

It should be noted though that I was fine leveling though Heroics & Epics on a Hard streak and didn't focus on Epic Elites until I had maxed out my Shadow Dancer and had gotten a few easy low level twists (it has been awhile but think Unearthly Reactions & Bolder Toss were two of them before the nerf of Boulder Toss for Arties/casters...).

I can say from experience that the CC on a max Int Pure Artificer is great for at least EH and below (even on a 32 pointer 1st lifer) and full self-Reconstructs without Evasion are fine on EH and below. ShadowDancer also gave me more Intelligence which helped with both steady-state DPS and DCs & Reflex saves (Int really helps in many areas as Caprice pointed out)... Without testing I would be a little concerned that my DCs would no longer function even in EH if I dropped base Int, dropped a few Artificer levels, and was in a Destiny with no Int improvements... In EE I would also be wary that my Reflex Save (even with Insightful Reflexes) was no longer viable were I to drop in all those areas...

Personally the only time I felt Evasion was really warranted was when I went for EEs so it came in plenty of time for me so a large part of it comes down to what the requester's goals are and the timing of when they are planned to be accomplished...

Great discussions and all good info for folk to think about...

Caprice
08-15-2014, 01:44 PM
[....]Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-Artificer (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer)

There is a good discussion in the Initial Post on "Alternative [Racial] Build Options" and though there is no specific section on Shadar-Kai I suspect they could fit into the discussion section for the other +2 Dex races...
Dubbell O'Seven and the discussions there are a great resource. Another good Artificer build to consider is Singular's High DPS Human Artie (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438867-High-DPS-human-artie-build). Notice that in both builds they put almost all of their AP into the 2 Artificer Enhancement trees and skimp out on the racial tree. In addition to what Nodoze mentioned you could get some benefit out of the Sneak Attack dice combined with the Blind proc from "Gloom Stalker", but you would have to make some sacrifices on the class abilities if you want to invest more heavily into Shadar-Kai. I'm not keen* on that tradeoff myself.

The epic elite optimization thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439717-Optimizing-a-pure-arti-for-EE) is another valuable resource, but it may be a bit of a slog to get through before you start playing your Artificer and see how the abilities play off each other.

* Secret but intentional pun.

Nodoze
08-15-2014, 01:54 PM
Dubbell O'Seven and the discussions there are a great resource. Another good Artificer build to consider is Singular's High DPS Human Artie (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438867-High-DPS-human-artie-build). Notice that in both builds they put almost all of their AP into the 2 Artificer Enhancement trees and skimp out on the racial tree. In addition to what Nodoze mentioned you could get some benefit out of the Sneak Attack dice combined with the Blind proc from "Gloom Stalker", but you would have to make some sacrifices on the class abilities if you want to invest more heavily into Shadar-Kai. I'm not keen* on that tradeoff myself.

The epic elite optimization thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439717-Optimizing-a-pure-arti-for-EE) is another valuable resource, but it may be a bit of a slog to get through before you start playing your Artificer and see how the abilities play off each other.

* Secret but intentional pun.Great recommendations. A big part of the reason the 007 thread & the EE optimization threads are so great is because of contributions/input from folk like Singular and if you aren't going to play the "superior toaster" race for an Artie then that is a great starting point for a "fleshie" build (and a good read regardless) !

I didn't have Singular's thread bookmarked but thanks to you I now do. Edit: It should be noted that I kinda split the difference between the 007 and Singular's build as Singular's discussions swayed me and I also subscribed to the synergy of using Force instead of Elemental damage like Singular does. I can see the Pros/Cons of the various approaches (especially Acid+Energy Burst) but in EE I liked Force the most personally for more consistent/controllable DPS and my EE-sneaky-low-aggro-play-style as a 1st lifer Artie on a new server.

Caprice
08-15-2014, 02:08 PM
[Lots of good stuff]
I'd agree that WF/BF is a straight up better choice than Shadar-kai. OTOH I went Human on mine so I could take the DM of Making to jumpstart my Cannith Crafting skill, and if I am being honest also partly because I don't like the WF model that much, so I can't justly disagree with someone else choose a non-ideal race for personal preferences. I regret my race choice at this point, but oh well.

TBH I miss Evasion more in heroics than epics, although I have only run a few EEs and those were all on my healtastic Cleric so my experience there is limited. There are a few HE traps you have to cross or stand in to disarm that tend to 1-shot me on a failed save even with Ablative Armor and/or Stoneskin precast. A better player who can time the traps well might laugh at them (and me), but I struggle with that. There seem to be far fewer of those "Nelson laugh" traps in epics (or possibly none) so it seems like Evasion is less significant for dealing with traps.

I also like how Shadowdancer abilities have INT-based DCs, and you can also get Invisibility, DDoor, Displacement, Shadow Walk, energy drain immunity (for fleshies - WF get it innately already), and Incorporeality. All of those are quite nice additions to the Artificer arsenal. The downside to me has always been that most of the flashier abilities have fairly limited durations followed by long(ish) cooldowns. I've never tried it on a stealthing character but I think if you had good Hide/Move Silently skills and bypassed some fights while letting your abilities recharge, it would be pretty amazing.

Caprice
08-15-2014, 02:16 PM
Hi Unbongwah and Caprice

ok so I added the LR+3 but I am still unsure which class to replace Barbarian with. Whatever will maximize the character. Also...does rapid reload work with heavy repeaters. Also the feat that helps accuracy does it apply to crossbows as well.


Tanya
Yes, Rapid Reload (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rapid_Reload) does increase your repeating crossbow DPS and by quite a bit. The feats that will directly increase your repeater DPS are Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Improved Critical: Ranged, and in epic levels Combat Archery, and you will want all of those. Note that the Artificer class gets Rapid Reload for free at class level 1, so if you pick Artificer to switch to then you do not have to pick Rapid Reload up on your own.

There are another 2 feats that don't directly increase your repeater DPS but are quite important too: Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot.

Precise Shot increases your DPS while standing still but I don't consider that a big benefit. You will probably be kiting a lot (or at least I do) so the damage boost doesn't add damage consistently. The big benefit is that it makes your shots pass through enemies to hit the specific enemy you have targeted. Without Precise Shot your bolts do their damage just to the first enemy in the path of your shots. So Precise Shot lets you select and quickly kill the most dangerous enemies (e.g. casters, beholders) first rather than having the beefier but possibly less dangerous melee enemies soak up a lot of your hits first.

Improved Precise Shots makes it so your shots no longer hit just the one enemy you have targeted. Instead you hit every enemy in a straight path between you and your targeted enemy. It doesn't help against a single foe but if there are 2 or 3 enemies in a row then you can do 2-3 times as much damage. One of the important playing skills you'll learn in the longer term is how to take advantage of NPC pathing to line up as many enemies as possible so you can kill them all at once rather than one by one.

01bethdefranco
08-15-2014, 02:24 PM
Hi Caprice and Unbongwah

ok so two more questions come to mind. First...so all of these ranged feats help bows and crossbows...I thought there was limitations on crossbows. Second...ok Artificer splash sounds like it would help but doesn't Artificer use Int. my Int is low, while I maxed Charisma, then Dex. Wisdom is my lowest. Currently at level 10 my Charisma is 28 and Dex is 21...Int is 12. Also I have +3 tomes available when I get to 19 I will have +5 available...not sure what level +4 starts at maybe 15 or 16?

Tanya

Batilla
08-15-2014, 02:25 PM
I'll split it up into sections

Tomes:

If tomes can be used to qualify for feats and you only need 21 dex as an artificer why not just start with 16 dex and grab a +5 tome instead? that would get you to 21 easily and if we are talking about using a tome for feats anyway, and, not going beyond minimum dex, than it seems to me that going that route would be one of the better options as that would let you start with 16 con instead of 14 which would lead to (theoretically anyways) greater survivability as you would then have more hp to play around with.

The Heart of Wood Needed for the build:

As far as the +1 heart of wood needed for the pure build; part of the reason I said pure was that I already have the heart and nothing else to use it on really so no TP expenditure there so it really shouldn't be counted as part of the cost of the build(found the thing BTA on a char for favor farming that i was clearing out in order to delete and I have no clue how it got there)

Construct Essence:

and regarding construct essence for fleshies, that feat also (AFAIK) increases damage on account of it being the feat required to unlock the Weapon Attachment perk in the battle engineer tree (if you are not a Warforged) which provides half as much damage as combat archery does and AFAIK the two stack. so would that make it worth considering adding on?

Race Choice:

as far as the reason i picked the shadar-kai race is that it gives a +1 int enhancement as well as 2 sneak attack dice and a +2 dex as well as the shadow phase and shadow jaunt cooldowns which are basically a "Get The Heck Out Of Dodge" button that lets you get away fast even when trapped by enemies, they also do not have a set nomber of uses per rest (just a 30 sec cooldown in between uses once you finish off the shadar-kai core enhancements) which helps somewhat with mobility in that not having to worry about usess running out lets you use them more freely, in addition the keen senses enhancement doesn't hurt when trying to do trapping as it helps with spot and search giving 3 points to each

Batilla
08-15-2014, 02:47 PM
Hi Caprice and Unbongwah

ok so two more questions come to mind. First...so all of these ranged feats help bows and crossbows...I thought there was limitations on crossbows. Second...ok Artificer splash sounds like it would help but doesn't Artificer use Int. my Int is low, while I maxed Charisma, then Dex. Wisdom is my lowest. Currently at level 10 my Charisma is 28 and Dex is 21...Int is 12. Also I have +3 tomes available when I get to 19 I will have +5 available...not sure what level +4 starts at maybe 15 or 16?

Tanya

+4 tomes start at 15th level, yes artificer uses int for spellcasting as well as weapon modifiers if you use certain spells, and as far as crossbows the only feats that i know of that only affects bows is multishot and bow strength

unbongwah
08-15-2014, 03:07 PM
First...so all of these ranged feats help bows and crossbows...I thought there was limitations on crossbows.
The following feats apply to all ranged & throwing weapons: Precision, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Combat Archery. These feats apply to short-/longbows only: Bow Strength, Manyshot, Zen Archery. Two feats are throwing-only: Brutal Throw and Quick Draw (altho QD also reduces delay on weapon swaps & action boosts). There are also two shuriken-specific feats: Shuriken Expertise and 10,000 Stars (tho it also works w/bows if you have Zen Archery). Rapid Reload is xbow-only (inc. repeaters).

Second...ok Artificer splash sounds like it would help but doesn't Artificer use Int. my Int is low, while I maxed Charisma, then Dex.
Correct, but when you LR you redo all your stats & skills as well as your feats, so you'll be able to fix that too. But this is why you plan your build (or rebuild) in advance: to make sure you factor in everything. :)

I should stress: the only stat which can be added to crossbow dmg is INT; and the only ways of adding it are via Targeting Sights (Mechanic lvl 6) or Insightful Damage (lvl 3 arty spell, need at least arty lvl 6). You can choose to skip both, but you'll be hampering your ranged DPS significantly without either.

Also I have +3 tomes available when I get to 19 I will have +5 available...not sure what level +4 starts at maybe 15 or 16?
+1 stat tomes can be taken at lvl 3; the min lvl on other tomes goes up every 4 lvls for each +1 (i.e., +2s @ lvl 7, +3s @ lvl 11, etc.).

unbongwah
08-15-2014, 03:13 PM
If tomes can be used to qualify for feats and you only need 21 dex as an artificer why not just start with 16 dex and grab a +5 tome instead?
That would work BUT remember IPS req's base DEX 19 and you can't take +5 tomes until lvl 19; does that mess up your feat progression if you have to wait until lvl 20 to take IPS?

Batilla
08-15-2014, 03:18 PM
That would work BUT remember IPS req's base DEX 19 and you can't take +5 tomes until lvl 19; does that mess up your feat progression if you have to wait until lvl 20 to take IPS?

As far as i can tell it only changes the order in which i get them, not which feats i get. Unless that would cause a problem with leveling i don't see much of an issue with changing just the level at which i get the feat.

Nodoze
08-15-2014, 03:45 PM
reply comments in red (just for visibility not because I am being critical/correcting)
I'll split it up into sections

Tomes:

If tomes can be used to qualify for feats and you only need 21 dex as an artificer why not just start with 16 dex and grab a +5 tome instead? that would get you to 21 easily and if we are talking about using a tome for feats anyway, and, not going beyond minimum dex, than it seems to me that going that route would be one of the better options as that would let you start with 16 con instead of 14 which would lead to (theoretically anyways) greater survivability as you would then have more hp to play around with.
More/Better Tomes always help but not everyone is able/willing to get the Tomes. In addition to more base HP, 16 starting Con with a +5 con Tome also qualifies you for Epic Toughness if you have the feats to spare. Back when I did it and Combat Archery was broken and I didn't have completionist (I was on my 1st life) I did that to boost survivabilty.

The Heart of Wood Needed for the build:

As far as the +1 heart of wood needed for the pure build; part of the reason I said pure was that I already have the heart and nothing else to use it on really so no TP expenditure there so it really shouldn't be counted as part of the cost of the build(found the thing BTA on a char for favor farming that i was clearing out in order to delete and I have no clue how it got there)
Sounds good.

Construct Essence:

and regarding construct essence for fleshies, that feat also (AFAIK) increases damage on account of it being the feat required to unlock the Weapon Attachment perk in the battle engineer tree (if you are not a Warforged) which provides half as much damage as combat archery does and AFAIK the two stack. so would that make it worth considering adding on?
Never tried Construct Essense so it is hard for me to comment on it directly. That being said I looked at it and decided against it and went WarForged for 100% healing and native Weapon Attachment instead. I have a guildie who took it on his HE Artie and even with his self repairs and me trying to assist with Reconstructs he died a lot more than me (and eventually quit DDO). I looked at Singular's build and she doesn't use it on her max DPS human version so I would hold it suspect as suboptimal.

Race Choice:

as far as the reason i picked the shadar-kai race is that it gives a +1 int enhancement as well as 2 sneak attack dice and a +2 dex as well as the shadow phase and shadow jaunt cooldowns which are basically a "Get The Heck Out Of Dodge" button that lets you get away fast even when trapped by enemies, they also do not have a set nomber of uses per rest (just a 30 sec cooldown in between uses once you finish off the shadar-kai core enhancements) which helps somewhat with mobility in that not having to worry about usess running out lets you use them more freely, in addition the keen senses enhancement doesn't hurt when trying to do trapping as it helps with spot and search giving 3 points to each
As long as you are making a well informed decision I think just about any choices are fine. For example I played Charisma-to-damage-melee-PDK to cap and enjoyed it even if I wasn't the most min-maxed in my group and people had advised against it...

Your posts gave me the first reason to take a close look at Shadar-Kai in a long time and it may not be a bad choice as a fleshie. It is a natural +2 Dex race that can take a racial +1 Int and I can value in those Shadow abilities (I like survivability and have twisted 'Unearthly Reactions' which is quite similar in effect) and things like the extra SA+skills are interesting. The one thing you may find as I and others have on Arties is that Action Points are a scarce resource and we had a hard time justifying AP in expensive racial trees by taking away from other trees...

My respectful recommendation to you is to download the DDO CharGen and use the build Singular posted as a starting point and compare her decisions/recommendation against CThru's 007 decisions/recommendations and then make the changes you are thinking about... It will help you see the finer differences in their final choices after multiple lives as Artificers and help you make a more informed choice. It will also give you a pictoral lesson as you rob Peter to pay Paul in the Racial tree of your choice.

Nodoze
08-15-2014, 04:01 PM
As far as i can tell it only changes the order in which i get them, not which feats i get. Unless that would cause a problem with leveling i don't see much of an issue with changing just the level at which i get the feat.As you can see from different perspectives from multiple experienced players, different people/playstyles find different content & different level ranges more challenging than others. A lot depends on how you end up playing (alone, in PUGs, in good Guild groups) what your strengths/weaknesses are, and what content you play (adventure packs and difficulty levels)... Some people struggle in the later Heroics and dread the 16-20 climb and I personally don't like it as I prefer the Epic content and having access to Epic Destinies... I just did my 3rd life as a WarCannon and following the build I had to slog and wait till 21 till I got IPS and didn't enjoy that part and in hindsight I may change that if I do another life on that build. Yeah from 21-28 I don't have to worry about it anymore and it no longer makes a difference but it certainly did make a difference getting to 21...

Caprice
08-15-2014, 05:23 PM
Hi Unbongwah and Caprice

ok so I added the LR+3 but I am still unsure which class to replace Barbarian with. Whatever will maximize the character. Also...does rapid reload work with heavy repeaters. Also the feat that helps accuracy does it apply to crossbows as well.


Tanya
I have a hard time making a class suggestion because I'm just not seeing the class synergy well and because we don't know when you took the Barbarian levels.

I would look ahead to what abilities will unlock in the classes as you level. If you really want to heal ("repair") Warforged effectively at higher levels you will want "Reconstruct", which is a level 6 Sorceror spell, or at least "Repair Critical Damage" (level 4). Sorcerors get their first level 6 spell slot at Sorceror level 12. Bards can only get the equivalent healing spell for "fleshie" non-Warforged ("Heal") as a capstone ability for being a pure level 20 Bard. Instead the biggest single-target healing spell a Bard gets is the level 4 spell "Cure Critical Wounds" (CCW). Bards get their first level 4 spell slot at Bard level 10. Unfortunately you cannot get both Reconstruct and CCW because the levels add up to too much.

The number and length of the buff spells you get for each class increase with levels too, so in most cases splitting the levels means you have to cast your buffs twice as often and have less variety. Generally you will have an easier time if you focus on one or the other so that you get to access the higher level buffs and so that the buffs you cast naturally last longer.

Another consideration is your skills. If you really want to be able to do traps then you are starting behind because you cannot have Rogue or Artificer as your level 1 class, so you are going to be doing a lot of catch up. Unfortunately Sorceror only gets 2 skill points per level, and the trap skills costs double for Sorceror, so it is hard to get even just the trapskills. Bards also pay double for trap skills but get 6 skills points per level so they are not as badly off. In addition both Bards and Sorcerors have other skills that they want to have to maximize their abilities (e.g. Concentration for both, Spellcraft for Sorcerors, Perform and UMD for Bards), so something has to give.

So overall I do not think that you can fit in everything that you want in this character. Since you are changing 2 Barbarian levels you can only change 1 other class level, so you need to have at least Sorceror3/Bard4 or Sorceror2/Bard5 as a base. A couple of options I can see are:

- Focus on Bard from now on and go Bard18/Sorc2 (or Bard16/Sorc4). You will get great buffing, healing, and CC abilities, and can focus on the repeater for your personal DPS. At higher levels your Use Magic Device skill will let you use Reconstruct scrolls to repair Warforged without having a single Repair spell in your spell book so you aren't really losing much there in the long term, and until then your remaining Sorceror levels mean that you can use Repair Wands pretty easily to help out any WF/BF you are traveling with (just buy a few from the wand vendors). You don't get INT to damage with the repeaters, which does reduce your DPS somewhat in the long run. You can invest some AP into the Air Savant tree and some into Spell Singer and maybe get Sonic SLAs and decent Sonic spellpower to back them up. You can't afford all the ranged feats and meta magics too but you'll still get some value out of them (e.g. Reverberate vs bosses). The extra Sonic spellpower will also help with Shiradi Champion abilities if you choose that as your Epic Destiny. You might as well drop a Sorceror level for now with your third class level change from your LR+3; you might add it back later but in the short term you will probably get more from more Bard levels right now. You will have enough Bard levels for your Songs to be plentiful, last a while, and to qualify for the quite nice Epic song feat (which is basically a free Completionist feat for the party).
\- Variant: Bard15/Rogue3/Sorceror2. You are not going to be able to get the full array of trap skills but you might be able to get at least Search & Disable Device to a decent level, and of course you get Evasion. You will still qualify for the epic song feat. For trapping your best bet may be to rely on outside help to find the traps in the first place (e.g. see: Barbarian; see also: Barbarians's face, Barbarian's Soulstone) and then you will hopefully be able to find and clear the trap afterwards.

- Bard12/Rogue6/Sorceror2. Rogue gives you INT to repeater damage through Mechanic Core 3 "Targeting Sites", Evasion, some Sneak Attack dice, and a decent number of skill points. You only get light repeater proficiency for "free" so you still need to pick up the Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Repeating Crossbow feat. Bard 12 gives most of the class benefits although your songs will be shorter, you stop at level 4 spells, and you do not qualify for the epic song feat. I think you may be able to max out 3 of the 4 trap skills (i.e. Search, Disable Device, and one of Spot or Open Lock), but you are going to be stretched a bit thin on skill points so maybe not.

- Sorceror 10/Rogue6/Bard4. Your buffing suffers but in return you get some useful AoE abilities that will help you kite and kill groups of enemies on your own. Rogue 6 is as above. Bard still has some okay low tier enhancements like Ranged Blow By Blow & Violet Marigold Crown, and unlocks Cure Wands. TBH I'd rather drop this to Bard 1-2 (or drop Bard entirely) but the LR+3 won't do any more. Sorceror 10 gives you an okay selection of spells including some of the better buffs. You won't be able to take Reconstruct but you can get Repair Critical Damage and that's not bad, and Sorceror will give you some AoEs that will be helpful for you in ranged kiting. In particular look at some of Nodoze's posts on being a Wizard shuriken user and using Cloudkill - you will have that spell as an option and can take on a playstyle that's a lot like that. Sorceror is low on skill points so you will probably have to cut corners to fit in even basic trapskills. Note that if you specialize in Earth spells (via the Earth Savant enhancements) it will make your Air & Sonic spells less effective so don't also take any Sonic SLAs from Spell Singer if you go that route.
\- A variant would be Artificer 6 rather than Rogue 6. You get both repeater proficiencies for free, runearm use, INT to repeater damage via the "Insightful Damage" spell, Rapid Reload as a free feat, another free Artificer feat (which incl. almost all the good ranged and casting feats), infinite bolts via the "Conjure Bolts" spell, and access to the Endless Fusillade enhancement. So you get good burst damage, and can actually fit in the feats semi-comfortably. However Artificer only gets 4 base skill points per level compared to Rogue's 8 base per level, so you are going to have a harder time with getting usable trap skills. Note that the runearm will not do much damage from charging and releasing (using the ALT key) with only 6 Artificer levels. It won't be enough to offset the run speed reduction you get for carrying a charged runearm. You are just using it for the imbues (averaging +3.5 dmg at low levels but up to +20 at epics), which you still get when the runearm isn't charged, and whatever extra bonuses the arm gives (e.g. spellpower, fortification).

Do any of those ideas appeal to you? If so I can try to do an actual layout of levels and see how the feats & skill points work out. I can start from a "least favorable" scenario (e.g. something like Sorceror 1, Bard 2-6, Sorceror 7-8, Barbarian 9-10) so that you should end up in no worse condition in the end. I have my fingers crossed that you took the Barbarian levels very early for the martial weapon proficiency and the class run speed bonus. The downside to ranged feats is how many you need, but at least they have relatively few requirements so at least your picks aren't going to be very sensitive to BAB requirements and things like that.

Note that while your INT score may not be contributing much extra damage at first, as you go up in levels you will get more points from gear (and possibly enhancements and epic destinies) so it will start to add more. You might have just a 14 INT base, but then you add a +8 INT item and a +2 exceptional INT item and rather than +2 damage per bolt you are doing +7 damage per hit, which is pretty good. And that's not the limit for items at the level cap, just a relatively easy number to hit.

Caprice
08-15-2014, 05:41 PM
One other thought I was trying to squeeze in is that since you are a Halfling you can get some abilities for healing non-WF through the Dragonmark of Healing, which is the Halfling racial Dragonmark. You get a limited number of charges of the dragonmarks so you can't use them as freely as healing or repair spells, but the top tier is Heal and you can also get one of the better debuff removals ("Break Out the Leeches"). However you are already looking "feat starved" because ranged weapons require a lot of feats and none of Halfling, Bard, or Sorceror give any bonus feats, so I don't see a good way to fit in the Dragonmark without sacrificing some other really useful feat.

01bethdefranco
08-15-2014, 06:39 PM
Hi Caprice
wow very detailed suggestions...and all good. What I need to do I think is clarify what I want. I envision more of a secondary healer, the 5th or 6th option on traps, and the ability to buff and support. I obviously have no illusions of being a tank or even a secondary damage person. However crowd control, walls, curses are what I would like to add to a party. I even have a curse spewing heavy repeater. The sorcerer spells i have taken so far are mostly sonic and force with a few electrical. I am not really looking to lower Charisma, so i would raise Intelligence by lowering Strength and Dexterity as little as possible depending on how high I need to get Intelligence up. I would get tomes as needed. Truthfully, a splash of rogue was for evasion , just like a splash of Barbarian was for toughness. I hadn't really figured that third class in. I do not mind using wands and scrolls as needed. So right now I am not sure how I am going to raise Intelligence to increase my repeater crossbow damage and not hurt other things. Before this I was planning 12 Bard, 6 Sorcerer and 2 of the 3rd class. Maybe i do not need a third class. What is the pros and cons of that. I was thinking Bard and Sorcerer would have Charisma synergie, then I could concentrate on the repeating heavy crossbow to messh with any group i am in. I have never envisioned this character as solo.

Tanya

Caprice
08-15-2014, 06:51 PM
I'll split it up into sections

Tomes:
[....]
The Heart of Wood Needed for the build:
[....]
Construct Essence:
[....]
Race Choice:
[....]
Mostly I am going to second other opinions that are already here:

- You can definitely use a +5 tome and wait until you get your level 20 Artificer bonus feat or an epic feat slot to pick up IPS. The only downsides are waiting a bit longer to get the feat so you delay the fun/practice, and the cost of the tome. I try not to assume that anyone is going to spring for that big a tome. FWIW I try not to assume anything more than +1s even at level 20, and that's despite +3s being handed out like candy during the anniversary event this year. Since you are willing, by all means go for it! On my napkin layout the feats work out fine for a pure Artie to take IPS at 20, but the Rogue 2 splashed version loses a feat and has to push IPS into epic levels and then has to drop something (e.g. Epic Spellpower) so that's another argument in favor of the pure version.

- Congrats on the Heart! If it's BtA maybe it was a daily roll reward. I think the lootable drops we used to see were all unbound, although Turbine did remove the Greater Hearts from the game a few Updates ago and maybe they made those BtA when they changed them into Lessers. In any case that's a nice find.

- I have seen at least some positive reviews on Construct Essence. Even at 50% effectiveness Reconstruct can be a life saver, apparently. I've found that my Human Artie does pretty well self-healing with Cure wands and prepping for harder fights with Ablative/Stoneskin so I decided to skip it myself, especially since Cocoon should make me even more survivable when I get there, but Construct Essence is an easier/earlier way to achieve the same thing.

- Weapon Attachment adds +2.75 average dmg per shot on a lootgen heavy repeater (or +2.25 on a light) and that is fantastic for a 1 AP enhancement, but it also has a very slow activation animation and is on a 3 minute CD timer. Those make it hard if you swap to use scrolls/wands frequently. If you are taking Construct Essence for self-healing then I would say that taking Weapon Attachment should be a no brainer (1 AP!) even if you just use it situationally. It does not match my current play style because depending on the content I tend to keep several weapons prepped for specific foe types and swap between them, and I definitely need to do wand/scroll healing (and sometimes buffing), but I think it is generally a strong choice that just gets stronger once you have an endgame weapon.

- Singular twists in Cocoon for (self-)healing, but also calls out WF as being slightly better than Human in most respects and specifically mentions the +0.5[W] as one reason why (and not needing to twist Cocoon as another). It might be worth asking whether (s)he thinks that dropping Mental Toughness for Construct Essence and freeing up 1 AP for Weapon Attachment would be worth it. I took the DM of Making instead, but someday when my crafting skills are better I could see swapping in Construct Essence. I'd rate that higher than Mental Toughness.

- Those are reasonable things to like from SDK. I just can't find the AP to spare that I don't want to spend on other enhancements. If you can then I think you can make good use of the abilities.

- FWIW while a lot of people denigrate the SLAs, I actually find that I get a lot of mileage out of them. In particular I find that they are good "Panic Button!" abilities because of the Daze effects on Static Shock and Lightning Sphere. Lightning Sphere is apparently bugged and the save does not protect against the Daze effect, and while it is a little hard to target it is pretty good at short ranges and is an AoE. Static Shock hits more reliably but the Daze is not a given and it is single target, but it works often enough that I consider it to be a standard part of my repertoire for dealing with enemies that close on me. OTOH I am not doing EEs nor do I plan on them so I don't have ridiculous saves to overcome on those. The SDK abilities are going to be more reliable in EE content because they don't debuff enemies so you won't run afoul of the saves or debuff immunities.

ArtharianDagworth
08-17-2014, 01:05 PM
Hi everyone,

I used to play DDO 3~ years ago. Lack of time due to college at the time stopped me from going far in to the game, but I really enjoyed it.

Now, I'm thinking of returning and discovered that my old character is still there. Only with all enhancements reseted. I lost the build I was basing him on, also probally since a lot has changed, the build the way it was wasn't going as good.

I remember that it was supposed to be a 1 lvl barbarian, 1 lvl fighter and all the other levels on ranger dwarf. Making use of rage and dual wield dwarven axes. The character is currently at level 14. I've passed all his current stats on the character generator. So, I'd like to know if the character can be saved in to something usefull? It's a f2p 28 points/0 tomes build..


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

[code]Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 197
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 9
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 18 21
Dexterity 13 13
Constitution 15 15
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 2 13
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 2 11
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 3
Heal 1 13
Hide 1 1
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 6 21
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 1 1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 0 5
Spellcraft 0 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 4 5
Tumble 3 9
Use Magic Device n/a 0

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Diehard


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)

unbongwah
08-17-2014, 02:21 PM
You should have both a regular Lesser Heart of Wood and +20 LHoW in your inventory, which will allow you to respec your char. Rgr 12 / barb 1 / ftr 1 isn't ideal, but it's something we can work with. The good news is you no longer need the Dodge/Mobility/SA chain for Tempest; and Toughness is no longer the must-have it once was. That frees up a few feat slots, although taking Dodge is still a good idea. The main question is: how many more rgr / barb / ftr lvls do you want?

Rgr 14: lvl 4 spell slot (CSW or FoM)
rgr 15: 2nd lvl 4 spell slot, 4th Favored Enemy
rgr 18: lvl 18 Tempest core (+5% doublestrike)

Ftr 2: 2nd free feat, +3 Tactics DCs if you go that route
Ftr 3: nothing now, but after the SD changes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446880-Fighter-Stalwart-Defender-Changes) go thru you can take defensive stance (note that rage & SD stance don't get along, tho)
Ftr 4: 3rd feat
Ftr 6: 4th feat, defensive stance

Extra barb lvls mostly means access to higher-tier PrE abilities.

I'm presuming you listed your classes in the order you took them; and that you have no tomes yet. So here's one possibility that's largely focused on DPS (Tempest / Ravager):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 430
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 11
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 17 24
Dexterity 13 13
Constitution 18 18
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Furious Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Do You Like Pain? (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Do You Like Pain? (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Do You Like Pain? (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Hardy Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Hardy Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Hardy Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Hard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Weapon Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Barbarian)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Pain Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Demoralizing Success (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Like Pain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Like Pain (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Like Pain (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Cruel Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Cruel Cut (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Cruel Cut (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Action Boost: Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Action Boost: Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Action Boost: Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Festering Wound (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Festering Wound (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Festering Wound (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Hit Back! (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Hit Back! (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Hit Back! (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Dismember (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Dismember (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Dismember (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Bully (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Bully (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Bully (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Critical Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Critical Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Frenzy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Power Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target


Ravager chews up half the APs (and Tempest eats up half of what's left); but the DPS boost from Bully + Critical Rage is quite nice. If you prefer a more balanced build, though, you might want to shift APs into other PrEs instead (e.g., from FB into AA for better ranged DPS).

Biggest drawback to this build is lack of self-healing: no CSW and Rage blocks spellcasting. Quik+Emp Heal are mostly there for Rejuvenation Cocoon.

BTW, in epics you might want to consider switching to warhammers: Mornh (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mornh) is still a very good weapon if you can get it (and you ought to have at least one raider's box in your inventory as well); and AFAIK Pulverizer (LD (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought)) stacks with Crit Rage.

Base dodge bonus should be 8%: 3% Dodge feat + 3% Imp Dodge (Tempest) + 2% Uncanny Dodge. If I had more APs to spare, I would max out Uncanny Dodger (OS) for another 3%. Still, with a +10% Dodge item and Mobility item, you should have 20% Dodge, which happens to be about what you can get from FBDH (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flawless_Black_Dragonhide_Armor).

EDIT: for a more balanced rgr, see EllisDee37's Tempest Trapmonkey (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players). Though obviously, with a barb instead of rog splash, you won't have trap skills, so you'll need to tweak things a bit.

ArtharianDagworth
08-17-2014, 03:12 PM
Thx for the quick reply unbongwah.

I'll respec the char and give it a try.

Nodoze
08-17-2014, 10:45 PM
You should have both a regular Lesser Heart of Wood and +20 LHoW in your inventory, which will allow you to respec your char. Rgr 12 / barb 1 / ftr 1 isn't ideal, but it's something we can work with. ...
Level 28 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger \ 8 Epic)
...
Biggest drawback to this build is lack of self-healing: no CSW and Rage blocks spellcasting. Quik+Emp Heal are mostly there for Rejuvenation Cocoon.
...
EDIT: for a more balanced rgr, see EllisDee37's Tempest Trapmonkey (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players). Though obviously, with a barb instead of rog splash, you won't have trap skills, so you'll need to tweak things a bit.Can a Barbarian use even Cocoon while Raging? I thought they blocked SLAs awhile back?

If so, considering all the "Be/Bring Your Own Healer" (BYOH) focus these days I would consider a more balanced build that can so some self healing like Unbongwah linked in his 2nd recommendation.

I would recommend to LR+1 from Barb1/Fighter1/RangerX to a Rogue1/Fighter1/Ranger18 but I think the Reincarnation limitation of having at most 3 classes at one time will make that require two LR+1s as follows:

-A first LR+1 to drop the Barbarian level;
-A second LR+1 add the Rogue level (as the first level);

I am not the expert on LR+x's with 3 classes so maybe someone else has some ideas.

Another option would just to LR+1 to drop Barbarian and go Ranger18/Fighter2.

Just some thoughts as I personally only like to play characters with strong self healing.

unbongwah
08-18-2014, 09:15 AM
Can a Barbarian use even Cocoon while Raging?
No: so Cocoon would be for out-of-Rage heals. I think you can use Consecration while Raged, though, and Celestial Champion stacks with Crit Rage, so Div Crusader is not a bad ED if you wanted one with a bit more healing oomph than, say, LD or FotW.

-A first LR+1 to drop the Barbarian level;
-A second LR+1 add the Rogue level (as the first level);
If the OP took their barb splash at lvl 1 and they only have one level of barb, then they only need a single LR +1 to swap that barb for rog.

Nodoze
08-18-2014, 04:02 PM
No: so Cocoon would be for out-of-Rage heals. I think you can use Consecration while Raged, though, and Celestial Champion stacks with Crit Rage, so Div Crusader is not a bad ED if you wanted one with a bit more healing oomph than, say, LD or FotW.

If the OP took their barb splash at lvl 1 and they only have one level of barb, then they only need a single LR +1 to swap that barb for rog.Thanks for clarifying as that is good to know. I thought all tri-class builds were stuck with a two step process but glad at least a tri-class with only 1 level at the first level could switch.

I think that your second recommendation (18Ranger/1 Fighter/1 Rogue) is a better way to go for most players unless they know they are going to be in a group with a healer and glad it wouldn't be too difficult to go that direction.

Sarzor
08-18-2014, 04:26 PM
Wanted: A build to go-to and stay at 28 and be viable in EH/EE groups of strong players, and be relatively easy to use and gear
Restrictions: I have bladeforged, and no other iconic, and no helf/horc. I have EDs, but haven't left divine sphere. I have one raider's box. Not much in the way of tomes on him, but should be easy enough to get up to +2's if that makes a difference.
The toon I'm working with: Currently a (very sucky) first-life TN cleric healbot

I would prefer bladeforged, as I can start at 15, and it's that much less to 28. I have relatively little gear on him that isn't healbot based. No torc, but does have con-opp goggles. I can pass inbound gear from my (many-times-TRed) main, but no shared bank.

I had been leaning towards a staff build or a shiradi build, but both seemed moderately gear-intensive. So, just wanted to see what other options there are, or if variants of staff/shiradi builds would be best for him. I would like this build to seem viable for quite some time, so at least able to tolerate the next round of game changes.

Nodoze
08-18-2014, 04:53 PM
Wanted: A build to go-to and stay at 28 and be viable in EH/EE groups of strong players, and be relatively easy to use and gear
Restrictions: I have bladeforged, and no other iconic, and no helf/horc. I have EDs, but haven't left divine sphere. I have one raider's box. Not much in the way of tomes on him, but should be easy enough to get up to +2's if that makes a difference.
The toon I'm working with: Currently a (very sucky) first-life TN cleric healbot

I would prefer bladeforged, as I can start at 15, and it's that much less to 28. I have relatively little gear on him that isn't healbot based. No torc, but does have con-opp goggles. I can pass inbound gear from my (many-times-TRed) main, but no shared bank.

I had been leaning towards a staff build or a shiradi build, but both seemed moderately gear-intensive. So, just wanted to see what other options there are, or if variants of staff/shiradi builds would be best for him. I would like this build to seem viable for quite some time, so at least able to tolerate the next round of game changes. If you don't mind grinding Green Steel Displacement clickies and want to go Melee you may want to look at the following BladeForged:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435435-Zeus-God-of-Thunder-and-Lightning

I have not ran this build but I ran the Cetus BF build on a 32 pointer first lifer and didn't find it very gear intensive (but I had the tomes to do the Cetus build). At level 20 you can get commendation gear and get a Tier 0/1 ThunderForged Staff (Falchion for Cetus) pretty easily. I find the level 20 commendation gear (monk set and the Monk staff) really good (especially in earth stance) until you can replace it with other gear (and especially the earth stance proc has its value in certain situations). The following are some links to easy to get stuff at 20 that carries you quite a ways (and some people even wear the set at 28 for tanking or times you need extra mitigation):

http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendation:_Villagers_of_Eveningstar

http://ddowiki.com/page/Way_of_the_Sun_Soul

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stout_Oak_Walking_Stick

I have not run the Zeus build but considering you have an unopened raider box to get a free Sireth that should be easy to gear for:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Sireth

For reference the following is the Cetus BladeForged build but since it is build around 36 points and a full set of +5 tomes it may be hard to adapt to a new 32 pointer:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter

If none of the above appeals to you (you don't want melee &/or don't want to grind Displacement clickies) I highly recommend you read the following previous post as I did not find these hard to gear for either (and am having great fun with them):

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5401819&viewfull=1#post5401819

EDIT: The WarCannon could be run from a BladeForged but I think a WarForged is better due to the BladeForged getting a racial -2 Dex penalty but that being said -2 Dex isn't the end of the world and could work...

Varinon
08-18-2014, 05:03 PM
Wanted: A build to go-to and stay at 28 and be viable in EH/EE groups of strong players, and be relatively easy to use and gear
Restrictions: I have bladeforged, and no other iconic, and no helf/horc. I have EDs, but haven't left divine sphere. I have one raider's box. Not much in the way of tomes on him, but should be easy enough to get up to +2's if that makes a difference.
The toon I'm working with: Currently a (very sucky) first-life TN cleric healbot

I would prefer bladeforged, as I can start at 15, and it's that much less to 28. I have relatively little gear on him that isn't healbot based. No torc, but does have con-opp goggles. I can pass inbound gear from my (many-times-TRed) main, but no shared bank.

I had been leaning towards a staff build or a shiradi build, but both seemed moderately gear-intensive. So, just wanted to see what other options there are, or if variants of staff/shiradi builds would be best for him. I would like this build to seem viable for quite some time, so at least able to tolerate the next round of game changes.

I tried re-inventing my stick build without the sheet in front of me, but I just messed it up horribly. I'll post that once I get the sheet available, but for a Shiradi, it's quite simple.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Generic Shiradi Champion
Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 18 Sorcerer \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 2300
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 18
Will: 30

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 6 6
Constitution 18 20
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 18 29

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -2 14
Bluff 4 17
Concentration 8 36
Diplomacy 4 18
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 4 17
Heal 2 11
Hide -2 6
Intimidate 4 17
Jump -1 7
Listen -2 6
Move Silently -2 6
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 21
Search 2 10
Spellcraft 4 33
Spot -2 6
Swim -1 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Magic Missile
Spell (1): Nightshield


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (1): Jump


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (2): Blur


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Scorching Ray


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (3): Chain Missiles


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Rage


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (4): Force Missiles


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Web
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (5): Ball Lightning


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (6): Greater Heroism


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Spell (4): Fire Shield
Spell (5): Teleport
Spell (6): True Seeing


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast
Spell (6): Chain Lightning
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (7): Invisibility, Mass
Spell (8): Incendiary Cloud


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Charisma


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - One with the Inferno (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Power of Force (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Greater Air Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Conduction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Shocking Grasp (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Shocking Grasp (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Shocking Grasp (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electric Loop (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electric Loop (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electric Loop (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric IV (Rank 1)




Main point of this (and any shiradi build) is to throw out tons of spells to get procs. Scorching ray and magic missiles are good for this, as each hit of the spell counts for a chance at a proc.
Shiradi are boring, but effective, and they get to push lots of buttons. I went fire/electric, but any two elements work--or even some EK for force damage.

unbongwah
08-19-2014, 12:08 PM
I envision more of a secondary healer, the 5th or 6th option on traps, and the ability to buff and support. I obviously have no illusions of being a tank or even a secondary damage person. However crowd control, walls, curses are what I would like to add to a party. I even have a curse spewing heavy repeater. The sorcerer spells i have taken so far are mostly sonic and force with a few electrical.
To be honest, I still think you're trying to pull your build into too many different directions at once. You can play a pure or mostly-pure CHA bard who has good spellcasting (CC, heals, buffs) but poor repeater DPS. You can play a rog / bard or arty / bard who has decent ranged DPS, buffs, and trap skills; but lousy CC spells and probably mediocre healing. You can try to play a bard / sorc hybrid, but usually wind up being too gimp at both. :(

Would you consider respeccing into throwing weapons instead? Might be able to come up with a pure bard CHA-n-DEX-based caster+thrower build using Spellsinger & Swashbuckler. Although honestly a pure caster bard is a lot easier to pull off in that case.

Sarzor
08-19-2014, 12:56 PM
If you don't mind grinding Green Steel Displacement clickies and want to go Melee you may want to look at the following BladeForged:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435435-Zeus-God-of-Thunder-and-Lightning

I have not ran this build but I ran the Cetus BF build on a 32 pointer first lifer and didn't find it very gear intensive (but I had the tomes to do the Cetus build). At level 20 you can get commendation gear and get a Tier 0/1 ThunderForged Staff (Falchion for Cetus) pretty easily. I find the level 20 commendation gear (monk set and the Monk staff) really good (especially in earth stance) until you can replace it with other gear (and especially the earth stance proc has its value in certain situations). The following are some links to easy to get stuff at 20 that carries you quite a ways (and some people even wear the set at 28 for tanking or times you need extra mitigation):

http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendation:_Villagers_of_Eveningstar

http://ddowiki.com/page/Way_of_the_Sun_Soul

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stout_Oak_Walking_Stick

I have not run the Zeus build but considering you have an unopened raider box to get a free Sireth that should be easy to gear for:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Sireth

For reference the following is the Cetus BladeForged build but since it is build around 36 points and a full set of +5 tomes it may be hard to adapt to a new 32 pointer:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter

If none of the above appeals to you (you don't want melee &/or don't want to grind Displacement clickies) I highly recommend you read the following previous post as I did not find these hard to gear for either (and am having great fun with them):

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5401819&viewfull=1#post5401819

EDIT: The WarCannon could be run from a BladeForged but I think a WarForged is better due to the BladeForged getting a racial -2 Dex penalty but that being said -2 Dex isn't the end of the world and could work...

I tried as I could, but couldn't find a way to make Cetus work with what I have (tomes: 5CON, 2INT, 1WIS, 3CHA) without getting some +5 tomes, and that's more than I want to do with this toon.

Adapting the Zeus build, I had to make some modifications, namely dropping a toughness and an epic toughness due to CON limitations, and I'll have to buy a +2 STR tome, which isn't unreasonable. I'll just have to get to 1750 favor before hitting level 21 (Overwhelming Crit). I also had to drop some offensive feats in favor of some defensive ones, as I just don't have the gear the original build has. I kept opportunist in there, and kept out improved evasion, which I'm hoping won't be problematic. An extra 2 build points would have gone a long way with this toon. Also, how important are displacement clickies? I'm not sure I care enough about this toon to get them.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(6 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 12 Rogue \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 438
Spell Points: 50
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 17
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 6 7
Charisma 16 19

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -1 34
Bluff 3 12
Concentration 7 27
Diplomacy 3 12
Disable Device n/a 34
Haggle 3 12
Heal 2 11
Hide -1 7
Intimidate 3 12
Jump 3 32
Listen -2 6
Move Silently -1 7
Open Lock n/a 27
Perform n/a 13
Repair 4 37
Search 2 34
Spellcraft 2 11
Spot -2 6
Swim 3 16
Tumble n/a 12
Use Magic Device 5 35

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+4)


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+6)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Repair (+6)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Adept of Forms


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+7)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+6)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+6)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+6)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+6)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Handling (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Weapon Attachment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Power of the Forge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)


I'd love some thoughts on this, as well as happy to listen to ideas on other viable builds (Staff, shiradi, other).

Also Varnion, would a 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Pal Toaster of Vengeance be more viable? Or even a 16/2/2 Sorc/Mnk/Pal?

Nodoze
08-19-2014, 02:01 PM
I tried as I could, but couldn't find a way to make Cetus work with what I have (tomes: 5CON, 2INT, 1WIS, 3CHA) without getting some +5 tomes, and that's more than I want to do with this toon.

Adapting the Zeus build, I had to make some modifications, namely dropping a toughness and an epic toughness due to CON limitations, and I'll have to buy a +2 STR tome, which isn't unreasonable. I'll just have to get to 1750 favor before hitting level 21 (Overwhelming Crit). I also had to drop some offensive feats in favor of some defensive ones, as I just don't have the gear the original build has. I kept opportunist in there, and kept out improved evasion, which I'm hoping won't be problematic. An extra 2 build points would have gone a long way with this toon. Also, how important are displacement clickies? I'm not sure I care enough about this toon to get them.

... snip build ...

I'd love some thoughts on this, as well as happy to listen to ideas on other viable builds (Staff, shiradi, other).

Also Varnion, would a 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Pal Toaster of Vengeance be more viable? Or even a 16/2/2 Sorc/Mnk/Pal?The main goals I remember are:
- go-to and stay at 28 and be viable in EH/EE groups of strong players, and
- be relatively easy to use and gear
- Restrictions: I have bladeforged but no other iconic, and no helf/horc.
- I have EDs, but haven't left divine sphere [yet but am open to it].
- I have one raider's box.
- Tomes: up to +2's OK

The main problem with melee on EE at cap is that they have insane amounts of hitpoints and even trash hit like a mack truck so mitigation is pretty important (especially for melee). That being said on a melee I would personally would not want to be without the 30% mitigation Displacement gives over Blur and ideally have the ability to get an additional 15% incorp over Ghostly. If I had to give up one I would first want to give up +15% than +30% but really would prefer to not lose either if I was a melee in EE...

Those 2 mitigation areas may be less important on a non-melee but even on non-melee builds I would try to work them in if reasonably possible.

If you don't want to grind GreenSteel to have Displacement clickies then the other options that come to mind are:

- Be at least 5+ Wizard to self-cast Displacement;
- Be at least 6+ Sorcerer to self-cast Displacement;
- Be at least 7+ Bard to self-cast Displacement;
- Be Elf and leverage DragonMarks (can possibly be Dex based and max Evasion if the build has it);

A much safer alternative than melee is to be at range... Did you look at the Thrower builds I previously linked for you? In case you focused on the melee options the following is the link I previously posted for you regarding EE throwers:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5401819&viewfull=1#post5401819

Both of these throwers have good DPS and great mitigation/survivability from range (both can self cast Displacement without grinding & that is 1 among many other layers of mitigation). The WarCannon could be run from a BladeForged but I think a WarForged is slightly better due to the BladeForged getting a racial -2 Dex penalty but that being said -2 Dex isn't the end of the world and could work...

There are other ranged options but those are the ones that come to mind for me right now and of course the Shriadi caster builds posted are options is you prefer spell damage.

If you aren't wanting to grind GreenSteel for Displacement and but are really wanting Melee then you could also look at the following builds:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431464-Santa-s-Little-Slayer-Another-Elfin-Centered-Kensai

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler?p=5349597

If you wanted to do BladeForged on this second one you could do it but would ideally need to have your LR+20 still:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler?p=5392992&viewfull=1#post5392992

Edit: I realized after my post that I forgot to reply to your mods on the Zues build. Overall it sounded reasonable and getting a +2 tome should be easy from the AH. Why did you drop Improved Evasion (as it seems really powerful and not difficult to keep)?

Sarzor
08-19-2014, 04:14 PM
[Cut out the quotes to keep this thread from being ridiculously long]

I appreciate the build recommendations, particularly in light of that this is the first time I've tried to gear a newer toon for epics. My experience has been primarily with a single toon with dozens of past lives and quality gear. The more I think about it, the more I just want to do Bladeforged, to skip the first couple million xp.

The difficulty with both of the builds mentioned is that they required LR+'s, or in the case of the bard build LR+1, alignment change, then LR20. For a toon I'm using to park at 28, that's awfully rich for my blood.

So, in an effort to clarify things, perhaps I should move towards a ranged build, as it was astutely mentioned that EE melee is rough, and I likely don't have the resources to do it well.

Updated request:
Wanted:
- A build to go-to and stay at 28 and be viable in EH/EE raid groups of strong players
- Be relatively easy to use and gear
- Bladeforged OR a build LR20-able from a TN pure cleric (Either reduces the grind to 28)
- Based on recommendations in this thread, likely ranged/caster or melee with strong built-in damage mitigation

What I got:
- I won epic destinies, but haven't left divine sphere
- I have one raider's box
- I own all classes
- I have a LR20, but *only* want to use it in the case of LRing into a build from my current one that fits my needs (Must be true neutral, and either include cleric or only be 2 non-cleric classes).
- I have 5-CON/2-INT/1-WIS/3-CHA tomes. I can however get up to +2's in other stats if that makes a difference.
- Currently a (very sucky) level 23 pure TN healbot cleric
- Own all Eberron packs besides 3BC. In Eveningstar, own MOTU, Druid, High road (Not Shadowfell, HH, new raids (but will get new raids soon-ish))
- NOT willing to devote significant grind to getting items (think greensteel, thunderforged, etc)
- NOT willing to spend resources in DDO store, or plat/etc on boxes/alignment changes/hearts. Lower cost/grind items are fine

Nodoze
08-19-2014, 05:30 PM
[Cut out the quotes to keep this thread from being ridiculously long]

...So, in an effort to clarify things, perhaps I should move towards a ranged build, as it was astutely mentioned that EE melee is rough, and I likely don't have the resources to do it well.

Updated request:
... OR a build LR20-able from a TN pure cleric (Either reduces the grind to 28)
- Based on recommendations in this thread, likely ranged/caster or melee with strong built-in damage mitigation
...from my current one that fits my needs (Must be true neutral, and either include cleric or only be 2 non-cleric classes).
-Currently a (very sucky) level 23 pure TN healbot cleric
...What race is your cleric?

EDIT: Focusing on Bladeforged ideas while waiting for answer on race for TN cleric...

The BladeForged option (without at least a LR+1) has to include at least one Paladin level so the only way I can see to pull of EE melee without Displacement clickies would be would be to have enough Wiz/Sorc to self cast Displacement... I haven't played nor followed any strong EE melee BladeForged who can self cast Displacement though that doesn't mean there aren't any out there (maybe someone else has a strong EE viable melee Warforged 1+Paladin/5+Wiz/etc build in EK or what not)...

Putting melee aside that Paladin level and BF's no racial Charisma reduction it seems natural to go BladeForged 2+ Paladin caster so 18Sorc/2Paladin and other various options come to mind...

For some reason when I read Varinon's post I thought he was posting a stick build but rereading it it looks like Varinon posted a BladeForged 18Sorc/2Paladin (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5406975&viewfull=1#post5406975) build that I would look closely at.

I don't play Shiradi casters so dont feel qualified to comment much but understand them to be great for EE (and among the easiest to gear for) and after playing a Shiradi thrower I can understand why...

The following are some Shiradi caster threads I have followed that you may want to read/review as their are many splits (likely all good but some better than others depending on your goals). This may give you some insight the pros/cons of 18Sorc/2Pal splits verses others:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443213-Sorc18-Pal2-Bladforged-build?highlight=toaster+build

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?highlight=toaster+build

If you like casters and don't mind the pew/pew style focusing on lots of random procs for EE I don't see how you could go wrong. I imagine it is a lot like playing a Shiradi thrower which has been fun...

EDIT2: This post seemed to be the most concise breakdown of the 18/2 vs the 14/4/2. Personally I like the idea of the 14/4/2 because of Scourge and 'endless mana' but the 18/2 sounds slightly more survivable.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?p=5176156&viewfull=1#post5176156

Sarzor
08-20-2014, 10:52 AM
What race is your cleric?

EDIT: Focusing on Bladeforged ideas while waiting for answer on race for TN cleric...

The BladeForged option (without at least a LR+1) has to include at least one Paladin level so the only way I can see to pull of EE melee without Displacement clickies would be would be to have enough Wiz/Sorc to self cast Displacement... I haven't played nor followed any strong EE melee BladeForged who can self cast Displacement though that doesn't mean there aren't any out there (maybe someone else has a strong EE viable melee Warforged 1+Paladin/5+Wiz/etc build in EK or what not)...

Putting melee aside that Paladin level and BF's no racial Charisma reduction it seems natural to go BladeForged 2+ Paladin caster so 18Sorc/2Paladin and other various options come to mind...

For some reason when I read Varinon's post I thought he was posting a stick build but rereading it it looks like Varinon posted a BladeForged 18Sorc/2Paladin (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5406975&viewfull=1#post5406975) build that I would look closely at.

I don't play Shiradi casters so dont feel qualified to comment much but understand them to be great for EE (and among the easiest to gear for) and after playing a Shiradi thrower I can understand why...

The following are some Shiradi caster threads I have followed that you may want to read/review as their are many splits (likely all good but some better than others depending on your goals). This may give you some insight the pros/cons of 18Sorc/2Pal splits verses others:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443213-Sorc18-Pal2-Bladforged-build?highlight=toaster+build

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?highlight=toaster+build

If you like casters and don't mind the pew/pew style focusing on lots of random procs for EE I don't see how you could go wrong. I imagine it is a lot like playing a Shiradi thrower which has been fun...

EDIT2: This post seemed to be the most concise breakdown of the 18/2 vs the 14/4/2. Personally I like the idea of the 14/4/2 because of Scourge and 'endless mana' but the 18/2 sounds slightly more survivable.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?p=5176156&viewfull=1#post5176156

The cleric is human. Sorry, I hadn't put enough information in there.

With respect to Shiradi, two questions:
1) My question about Varinon's build is the mana bar. How much of a difference do the fvs levels make in extending the blue bar if this is going to be a pot-poor build? All builds mentioned seem to revolve around MM/Scorching rays. Does the mana regen from fvs make a difference? Wind dance is nice, but would disallow tier 5 fire savant. Which brings my to my other question;
2) Elements - Since this will be primarily an endgame and raid toon with low DCs (at best 1 PL) and doing raids, should I be building around specific elements? Namely, if I'm doing CitW, VON, thunderholme, Abbott, FoT, the new Vol raid, and the rest of the endgame, is fire ok? Electric? Magic missiles still not blocked? Given all things being equal, much of the conversation seems to be how much better the 14/4/2 is.

Varinon
08-20-2014, 10:57 AM
The cleric is human. Sorry, I hadn't put enough information in there.

With respect to Shiradi, two questions:
1) My question about Varinon's build is the mana bar. How much of a difference do the fvs levels make in extending the blue bar if this is going to be a pot-poor build? All builds mentioned seem to revolve around MM/Scorching rays. Does the mana regen from fvs make a difference? Wind dance is nice, but would disallow tier 5 fire savant. Which brings my to my other question;
2) Elements - Since this will be primarily an endgame and raid toon with low DCs (at best 1 PL) and doing raids, should I be building around specific elements? Namely, if I'm doing CitW, VON, thunderholme, Abbott, FoT, the new Vol raid, and the rest of the endgame, is fire ok? Electric? Magic missiles still not blocked? Given all things being equal, much of the conversation seems to be how much better the 14/4/2 is.

If you're really hurting for spellpoints, there's no reason you can't disable metamagics on say, Magic Missle, and throw it infinitely for 4 SP (most the damage comes from shiradi procs anyway). 14/4/2 is better--my build was supposed to be an introductory easy-to-play and easy-to-build Shiradi. Fire is good endgame, so is electric. Only element that seems to get blocked a lot is cold (Skeletons, frost giants, etc are all immune). Magic Missile tends to work on everything (rarely do mobs cast night shield). Abbot will be hard because your good multi-hit spells are level 1-4, which he'll block.

Sarzor
08-20-2014, 11:39 AM
If you're really hurting for spellpoints, there's no reason you can't disable metamagics on say, Magic Missle, and throw it infinitely for 4 SP (most the damage comes from shiradi procs anyway). 14/4/2 is better--my build was supposed to be an introductory easy-to-play and easy-to-build Shiradi. Fire is good endgame, so is electric. Only element that seems to get blocked a lot is cold (Skeletons, frost giants, etc are all immune). Magic Missile tends to work on everything (rarely do mobs cast night shield). Abbot will be hard because your good multi-hit spells are level 1-4, which he'll block.

Thank you.

I've done a shiradi before (when they first came out) so I have some experience with it so should be fine on that front.

With regards to Abbott, I'm fine with being a bit less useful in a couple raids. There are few builds which will be strong in all content. Also, I found fire to be weaker in Gianthold when i did it, but as I said, willing to sacrifice some zones to be better in most of the others.

Throwing out this build as a possibility to go alongside the electric one done earlier:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 14 Sorcerer \ 4 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 471
Spell Points: 2487
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 26
Reflex: 15
Will: 20

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 6 6
Constitution 18 23
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 6 7
Charisma 18 27

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 17

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -2 0
Bluff 4 8
Concentration 8 29
Diplomacy 6 16
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 4 8
Heal -2 -2
Hide -2 -2
Intimidate 4 8
Jump 0 0
Listen -2 -2
Move Silently -2 -2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a 9
Repair 4 14
Search 2 3
Spellcraft 2 26
Spot -2 -2
Swim 0 0
Tumble -1 -1
Use Magic Device 6 19

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Spellcraft (+4)
Spell (1): Magic Missile
Spell (1): Nightshield


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Remove Fear


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (1): Jump


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Repair Light Damage


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (2): Scorching Ray


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Knock


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Chain Missiles


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (3): Displacement


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Force Missiles


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Repair Serious Damage
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (5): Protection from Elements
Spell (4): Fire Shield
Spell (3): Haste


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Perform (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (6): Disintegrate


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (6): Reconstruct
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (1): Protection from Evil


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Lesser Restoration


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Fire


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Spellsword: Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Power of Force (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 2)

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 11:59 AM
If you're really hurting for spellpoints, there's no reason you can't disable metamagics on say, Magic Missle, and throw it infinitely for 4 SP (most the damage comes from shiradi procs anyway). 14/4/2 is better--my build was supposed to be an introductory easy-to-play and easy-to-build Shiradi. Fire is good endgame, so is electric. Only element that seems to get blocked a lot is cold (Skeletons, frost giants, etc are all immune). Magic Missile tends to work on everything (rarely do mobs cast night shield). Abbot will be hard because your good multi-hit spells are level 1-4, which he'll block.Good insights as I like learning new things... Personally my goals were I to switch to a Shiradi-Caster from my Shiradi-Thrower would be to try to keep trap capability on my main and if possible go Int based to leverage Insightful-Reflexes so Wizards based ones have a special appeal to me...

In case anyone wants to look at Wizard-based-Shiradi-casters instead of Sorcerer-based-Shiradi-casters or maybe are interested in Favored Soul (FvS) heavy Shiradi-caster builds that could at least off-heal the following are some threads that may be useful to review/subscribe to:

This thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425312-Just-Shiradi-The-U19-shiradi-standard-%2816-wizard-2-favored-soul-2-monk%29) touches on multiple Wizard heavy splits like 14wiz/4fvs/2mnk & 13fvs/7wiz though focuses on 16Wiz/2FvS/2Monk and eventually the Original Poster (OP) leans towards 15Wiz/3FvS/2Monk... The thread is a little dated and the OP is no longer actively developing/adapting the build but should still be a viable base.

This thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446962-12fvs-6wiz-builds-becoming-popular) touches on how really only 5-6+ levels of Wizard is needed and you can even go 12+ FvS in your Shiradi casters and then links to this thread with an actual 12FvS/6Wiz/2Pal build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444495-Secure-s-Build-Thread) & touches on other 2 level splashes and also includes recommendations for running Exalted Angel for when more healing is needed.

Last but not least is a well documented 'any Race' 16Wiz/2 FVS/2Monk thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438460-Nova-Shiradi-Palemaster-Supremacy-Shiradi-build) that includes great discussion of being tankish in Shiradi and the pros/cons of undead-self-unhealing vs robot-self-repairs. The OP also gives a great breakdown of what you gain/lose by going 2Rogue instead of 2Monk which is a route I am considering i my next life... If I play that build I will likely go robot WF/BF in my first life as I am not yet comfortable with undead-self-unhealing vs robot-self-repairs and if I go that route I can fall back on Repairs if I don't like the undead route with just an AP swap... Ultimately being able to comfortably play that build with fleshie races leveraging undead-self-unhealing will really help for future iconic past lives & general efforts toward completionists...

Sarzor (https://www.ddo.com/forums/member.php/426014-Sarzor), please reply back if/when you decide on a build that you think may fit your goals/play-style...

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 12:31 PM
Thank you. ...
Throwing out this build as a possibility to go alongside the electric one done earlier:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
...
Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 14 Sorcerer \ 4 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
...
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Spellsword: Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Power of Force (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 2)
After quick review this looks along the lines of the well tested and well documented Toaster of Vengeance build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?p=5150715&viewfull=1#post5150715).

I recommend you review your planner item by item with that build and where there are differences, unless you have a compelling reason, I would go with the posted build on my first go around until I had played it for awhile...


The cleric is human. Sorry, I hadn't put enough information in there. ...To give you other options besides BF note that a TN human without an alignment change you could LR+20 into any of the non-monk or non-paladin fleshy builds out there...

A TN Human version of this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438460-Nova-Shiradi-Palemaster-Supremacy-Shiradi-build?p=5283805#post5283805) may fit if you were prioritizing Rogue skills and Int based evasion as the OP actually recommends undead-self-unhealing over Robot-self-Repairs... Unless I find a better Shriadi-caster-with-Rogue-skills before then I personally am leaning toward a Robot 2 Rogue version in my next life. I like the idea of going WF/BF with that build as it would allow me to try undead-self-unheals risk free on a life by allowing me to just easily/quickly change AP to spec back into robot-self-repairs... If you were more comfortable with the undead angle you could look at a fleshy Rogue variant from the get go but for me a flesh would likely only happen after doing a no risk robot varient first...

mikarddo
08-20-2014, 12:49 PM
Greetings

I am looking for a build that will be used only as a boxed support character - so it will never be fighting. No need to worry about leveling him - that will be done as pure piking (I am running the active char, not piking in a pug, no worries)

1. Able to search & disable all traps, search all secret doors and open all doors and chests (well, maybe not all, but the ones in Haunted Halls on EE and the door in House of Broken Chains EE)
2. Evasion and high enough reflex to survive getting to the place where the trap is disabled (again, mostly thinking about Haunted Halls)
3. Long duration buffs, preferably including bard songs so a bard would be great.
4. If possible - ability to bless chests.

I realize the mix may be too much but I can hope its doable. My current bot build can do all of the above except #2 - he simply dies too often when running through the traps on EE in HH.

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 01:08 PM
Greetings

I am looking for a build that will be used only as a boxed support character - so it will never be fighting. No need to worry about leveling him - that will be done as pure piking (I am running the active char, not piking in a pug, no worries)

1. Able to search & disable all traps, search all secret doors and open all doors and chests (well, maybe not all, but the ones in Haunted Halls on EE and the door in House of Broken Chains EE)
2. Evasion and high enough reflex to survive getting to the place where the trap is disabled (again, mostly thinking about Haunted Halls)
3. Long duration buffs, preferably including bard songs so a bard would be great.
4. If possible - ability to bless chests.

I realize the mix may be too much but I can hope its doable. My current bot build can do all of the above except #2 - he simply dies too often when running through the traps on EE in HH.I can't remember all the goals in this thread but it was a good related read and had multiple ideas shared in it though reading it may change your goals somewhat if it has ideas you hadn't thought of:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430402-Dual-Box-Elite-Opener-The-quot-Mom-quot-build

Edit: It looks like the above build currently uses the DragonMark of Passage for mobility/utility but that may be able to be swapped to make it Chest Blesser. Maybe post in that thread asking for ideas on a varient and they may add one for that.

Sarzor
08-20-2014, 01:53 PM
NoDoze, thanks for the links.

I was actually trying to think of a way to make a wizard bladeforged build, since it would ease alot of feat chosing.

The Nova Shiradi build you mentioned looks quite nice but wouldn't fit either of my qualifications (LR20 from pure cleric, and would need paladin levels if BF) unless I could do Wiz/Monk/Pal or Wiz/Fvs/Pal, but one loses mana regeneration from fvs, and the scond loses evasion and two feats, so am unsure how well the split would work. If the spell regen is less important, I would sub paladin for favored soul, though this may be rough as I still don't have a torc. Alternately, for using a LR20, divine disciple in cleric is a poor substitute for favored soul levels, but may still be viable. I'd need to go Wiz/Cleric/Rogue, since he's true neutral (wish I'd made him LG years ago).

With regards to the fvs build, how important is the shadowscale docent? Also how would this do after the paladin changes? A comment in there seemed to say losing 10 saves (Current plan is to cap at +8 with 2 PAL levels).

Right now I'm leaning away from LR20'ing, since so many of the better builds rely on monk and/or paladin, which would be locked out. That would leave either a sorc shiradi or the fvs build. The fvs build seems a bit more reliant on gear in order to bring up the MM caster level, so may be less viable?

Oh, and the semi-adapted fvs build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 6 Wizard \ 12 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 538
Spell Points: 2021
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 28
Reflex: 22
Will: 23

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 6 6
Constitution 17 22
Intelligence 16 18
Wisdom 14 15
Charisma 14 24

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 17

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -2 -2
Bluff 2 7
Concentration 7 30
Diplomacy 6 25
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 7
Heal 2 12
Hide -2 -2
Intimidate 2 7
Jump -1 0
Listen 2 2
Move Silently -2 -2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 3 8
Repair 5 27
Search 3 4
Spellcraft 3 27
Spot 2 2
Swim -1 -1
Tumble n/a -1
Use Magic Device 4 18

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Spellcraft (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Repair (+5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+4)


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Wizard)
Skill: Repair (+6)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Repair (+6)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell


Level 20 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Summon Archon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Evocation I: Magic Missile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Evocation II: Gust of Wind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Evocation III: Chain Missiles (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Energy of the Scholar (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Quickening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Quickening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Quickening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Arcane Bolt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Arcane Bolt (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Arcane Bolt (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Primary Spell Focus: Evocation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Arcane Blast (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Arcane Supremacy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 1)

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 05:05 PM
NoDoze, thanks for the links.

I was actually trying to think of a way to make a wizard bladeforged build, since it would ease alot of feat chosing.

The Nova Shiradi build you mentioned looks quite nice but wouldn't fit either of my qualifications (LR20 from pure cleric, and would need paladin levels if BF) unless I could do Wiz/Monk/Pal or Wiz/Fvs/Pal, but one loses mana regeneration from fvs, and the scond loses evasion and two feats, so am unsure how well the split would work. If the spell regen is less important, I would sub paladin for favored soul, though this may be rough as I still don't have a torc. Alternately, for using a LR20, divine disciple in cleric is a poor substitute for favored soul levels, but may still be viable. I'd need to go Wiz/Cleric/Rogue, since he's true neutral (wish I'd made him LG years ago).

With regards to the fvs build, how important is the shadowscale docent? Also how would this do after the paladin changes? A comment in there seemed to say losing 10 saves (Current plan is to cap at +8 with 2 PAL levels).

Right now I'm leaning away from LR20'ing, since so many of the better builds rely on monk and/or paladin, which would be locked out. That would leave either a sorc shiradi or the fvs build. The fvs build seems a bit more reliant on gear in order to bring up the MM caster level, so may be less viable?

Oh, and the semi-adapted fvs build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 6 Wizard \ 12 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
...
Arrg. I was so focusing on the TN of the Cleric and that being Human & that the Race & TN alignment fit with 16Wiz/2FvS/2Rogue (a recommended Variant of the OP's 16Wiz/2FvS/2Mnk) that I totally forgot about the 3 class limit which ruins it for the high level Human TN Pure Cleric (even with the LR+20)... Note to self if I look further is to look for 2 class splits that work with Human/TN or that already has Cleric build in if Triple-Classed... Good catch and sorry I missed that and no I would not do the Cleric SLA option if focusing on Shiradi as research all points to multi-proc spells like Magic Missile, Chain Missile, Force Missile, Scorching Ray, etc...

I don't think adapting the 'any race' Nova Shiradi 16Wiz/2FvS/2Monk to a BF without a LR+1 and thus resulting in 16Wiz/2FvS/2Paladin totally gimps the build by any means as the OP indicated that Monk isn't essential & while you lose saves he thought a Rogue variant was viable. If I have learned anything is that Shiradi works from many platforms as long as you have the minimums for what you are trying to leverage.

That being said if you want to go Wizard based as a BladeForged then likely Secure's BladeForged 12FvS/6Wiz/2Pal (Charisma based or otherwise) is the only one I have seen proven on live and well documented that fits all your criteria. I think the ShadowScale Docent idea is interesting but doesn't make or break the build. I see the ShadowScale benefits now and they may indeed go up if the changes being discussed go live but I don't see how not having it makes you particularly less survivable than Sorc builds which do fine... That being said, IIUC the ShadowScale Docents only needs commendations which you will earn anyway and ShadowScales which you can buy off the auction house at cap if you didn't want to run the raids (I did and I am not rich as I have many characters to equip)... The one thing I will say about the 12FvS/6Wiz/2Pal option is that it is the unique option at the table as you could at least be a solid party off healer with it if you were so inclined...

What is steering me toward going Wizard based on a Shiradi Caster are the following:


- I want traps/locks and an Int based Wiz Int can do the skills with just 2 Rogue;
- I want Evasion and an Int based Wiz should be decent with Insightful Reflexes and relatively even more on par once the Paladin-2 splashes are somewhat nerfed...
- extra wiz feats are nice;
- only meta'ed spells & SLAs result in meta'ed Shiradi procs so that makes the Wiz ArchMage SLAs more appealing;
- gives me an excuse/way to try undead-self-healing yet be able to easily fall back on the self-repairs if I don't like the undead option... Getting comfortable with undead-self-unhealing could open up multiple options for races/lives for me...
- etc... (tired and think I am missing a few things)...


To me the above would be worth a LR+1 on a BladeForged if I wanted to skip all those levels but that is me and not necessarily you so please don't let my excitement around wiz based sway you too much if you have a better fit elsewhere for your goals...

I am tired but glad in the end that you have multiple good options. Don't forget that there are many native great BladeForged Sorc options and if I didn't want traps I personally would love to try the double free mana from both Fire Savant's Fanning the Flames and FvS Endless Faith in 14Sorc/4FvS/2Pally platform that leverages that synergy between Fire/Force. That being said there also something to be said with focusing on simplicity on one's first Shiradi Caster like Varinon recommended and the 18/2 with both "Wings" and knockdown immunity also sounds really appealing for a first go at it...

Edit: Even though I did tons of research (a lot was for me as well and I sadly enjoy that sort of thing ;-) and posted lots of ideas/options I wouldn't be the slightest offended/sad if the first answer that Varinon gave ended up being the right answer for you. You are fortunate that there really are no bad options as apparently Shriadi is both powerful and flexible...

Hope that all helps...

Let us know if you are good to go now and if so what you decided upon.

Caprice
08-20-2014, 06:44 PM
Alternately, for using a LR20, divine disciple in cleric is a poor substitute for favored soul levels, but may still be viable. I'd need to go Wiz/Cleric/Rogue, since he's true neutral (wish I'd made him LG years ago).
I did not consider my Light DiDi Cleric to be particularly successful in EEs and I did have the mana regen from FvS (18/2 build). I contributed a little bit to the group by the occasional CC or AoE damage proc, but IMO I could not get enough procs to be worth it and whenever I was trying to kill mobs on my own it took forever. Holy Smite SLA wasn't terrible but the cooldown was too long for it to feel effective and the other abilities are single target - single hit so you get fewer chances for Shiradi procs, and also fewer chances for Just Reward procs so I also used up SP faster than a Shiradi Sorceror would. That was before the Soundburst SLA was added to EA and with that twisted in it should feel a little better, but I am skeptical that it is enough.

I felt that I was most successful in EEs in US and playing a support role. I could aggro archers and casters and self-heal through them mostly with Radiant Aura and sometimes Renews, while tossing out Cocoons and Renews and Cures as needed for the rest of the party so they could stick to just DPS, and I had a Torc to recover enough SP to last a lot longer. The extra HP and Fortification from US made it much easier for me to survive aggro and the extra caster levels helped both my DPS and healing. However I felt like I was mostly carried playing like that.

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 09:21 PM
NoDoze, thanks for the links. ... Alternately, for using a LR20, divine disciple in cleric is a poor substitute for favored soul levels, but may still be viable. I'd need to go Wiz/Cleric/Rogue, since he's true neutral (wish I'd made him LG years ago). ...I did not consider my Light DiDi Cleric to be particularly successful in EEs and I did have the mana regen from FvS (18/2 build). I contributed a little bit to the group by the occasional CC or AoE damage proc, but IMO I could not get enough procs to be worth it and whenever I was trying to kill mobs on my own it took forever. Holy Smite SLA wasn't terrible but the cooldown was too long for it to feel effective and the other abilities are single target - single hit so you get fewer chances for Shiradi procs, and also fewer chances for Just Reward procs so I also used up SP faster than a Shiradi Sorceror would. That was before the Soundburst SLA was added to EA and with that twisted in it should feel a little better, but I am skeptical that it is enough.

I felt that I was most successful in EEs in US and playing a support role. I could aggro archers and casters and self-heal through them mostly with Radiant Aura and sometimes Renews, while tossing out Cocoons and Renews and Cures as needed for the rest of the party so they could stick to just DPS, and I had a Torc to recover enough SP to last a lot longer. The extra HP and Fortification from US made it much easier for me to survive aggro and the extra caster levels helped both my DPS and healing. However I felt like I was mostly carried playing like that.Thanks Caprice for bringing to the table some actual Cleric-Divine-Disciple+FvS+Shiradi-casting experience to the discussion. While I am a good researcher my in game experience is focused on areas that I prefer and I haven't really branched much into Shiradi and not run any true-pure-casting-based-Shiradi builds to cap (I have only had 2.5 lives with Shiradi as my prime ED and thus far only done Shiradi on EE on Throwers with just some hybrid casting).

One of my blessings (or curses depending on how you look at it) is retaining much of what I read and extrapolating from there. Because there are already multiple great options on the table, I hesitated to share this, but then felt I would be remiss if I didn't, so I wanted to let you know that I did come across a reference from an experienced EE player who did do a 'Human Shiradi spammer 11Clr/7Wiz/2FvS (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444495-Secure-s-Build-Thread?p=5408100&viewfull=1#post5408100)'. The EE player felt the 11Cleric based split was also very strong Shiradi caster build though in the end he focused on sharing the 12FvS/6Wiz/2Pal build (maybe because it leveraged the unique armor spin). Like Caprice did he also leveraged the DD Holy Smite SLA & he played it in both wisdom and constitution specs but ended up sticking with con for survivability. IIUC the 11Clr/7Wiz/2FvS (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444495-Secure-s-Build-Thread?p=5408100&viewfull=1#post5408100) split has going for it:



holy smite SLA,
wizard evo SLA's,
wizard evo spells (when SLAs are on cool-down);
BB
heal,
solid fog
ice storm,
scorge and fvs sp regen.
Max, empower, enlarge, extend and quicken for mettas.
edit: self-cast-Displacement


That 11Clr/7Wiz/2FvS (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444495-Secure-s-Build-Thread?p=5408100&viewfull=1#post5408100) should work as a TN Human so you could use your LR+20 to quickly go to it. Considering a BladeForged alt you could actually do both and contrast/compare and then leave the one you want as your 'EE at cap toon' while you TR/iTR/eR the other to max out fate points/hPLs/iPLs/ePLs/etc on the other toon (you could even alternate both at cap eventually maxing both out)...

Sorry if I am giving you too many options to consider and that my 'Walls of Text' SLA are fully Maximized/Empowered/Heightened/Enlarged/Entended as, for better or worse, I can't seem to turn those Meta's off... Too bad they aren't also Quickened & Eschewed-Materials and Empowered-Healing (as sometimes I wish for those Metas instead ;-) ...

Please let us know if you are good to go now and if so what you decided upon.

Caprice
08-21-2014, 11:03 AM
One of my blessings (or curses depending on how you look at it) is retaining much of what I read and extrapolating from there. Because there are already multiple great options on the table, I hesitated to share this, but then felt I would be remiss if I didn't, so I wanted to let you know that I did come across a reference from an experienced EE player who did do a 'Human Shiradi spammer 11Clr/7Wiz/2FvS (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444495-Secure-s-Build-Thread?p=5408100&viewfull=1#post5408100)'.
I'm glad you did share it since I theorycrafted a similar build once but never tried it beyond a Morninglord throwaway test (although I was trying Dark DiDi & Vampire and didn't like it that much). My guess is that Secure succeeded that well because (s)he is probably mostly focused on the multi-hit effects from the Wizard SLAs (and possibly un-meta'd Wizard spells) and Holy Smite is just one more multi-hit SLA to use, and of course having BB to kite through and Heal for emergencies is great. DiDi also adds a decent amount of universal spell power and crit % too. OTOH I suspect that it is a fairly weak build outside Shiradi because I would think that a lot of the DPS comes from the Shiradi procs because of the relatively low caster levels and low Evocation DC, so I am not sure that I'd want to use it to traverse the ED map & earn Fate points.
... and now I want to try it. ;-)

mikarddo
08-21-2014, 11:27 AM
I can't remember all the goals in this thread but it was a good related read and had multiple ideas shared in it though reading it may change your goals somewhat if it has ideas you hadn't thought of:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430402-Dual-Box-Elite-Opener-The-quot-Mom-quot-build

Edit: It looks like the above build currently uses the DragonMark of Passage for mobility/utility but that may be able to be swapped to make it Chest Blesser. Maybe post in that thread asking for ideas on a varient and they may add one for that.

Thanks.

I took a closer look at my own build (18 bard, 2 rog) Spellsinger/Fatesinger and managed to get his reflex save to 68 selfbuffed +3 vs traps with 90+ in search, disable and open locks (and another +6 from short boosts), Dragonmarks of Finding and max duration songs (1st lifer, no EPL either) without too much investment in gear. So, I think I fixed it reasonably myself though there is definitely room for improment. Only annoying thing really is that Epic Reflexes and Inspire Excellency cannot co-exist. That would have made the build perfect.

Sarzor
08-21-2014, 11:38 AM
Thank you very much everyone.

I decided to go with the 14/4/2 sorc/fvs/pally build, in part because I also asked around some of the chat channels and they all said they'd done it before and found it a very easy way to get into epics cheap. Several of them had done it (as a WF, not bladeforged) for first lives and found it to be quite viable.

With regards to gearing him, I already have the con-opp, but unfortunately no torc. Without a torc, all these builds lose a fair bit, and unfortunately the raid is rarely run. Other than that, there are a number of items which help (shadow docent, flawless blue). Crystalline scepters are easy to find, and skiver pairs nicely at heroic levels with that. Once I get to 23, I have a Twilight which will help quite a bit.

So, in short it's an easy jump into epics with it. Also, the build is viable out of main ED, which helps since I need to work my way across the entire ED zone to get to shiradi. I also have heavy armor proficiency, and for the cost of dodge cap and 5AP, I can be at -25% ASF (Heavy armor is 35%) and can then slot an augment in the shadowscale docent and really upgrade my survivability with some PRR and DR 30/60. A -15% ASF item would only cost me 3 more AP than current. I'd have to weigh that against dodge cap, but it gives some options.

Nodoze
08-21-2014, 01:18 PM
Thank you very much everyone.

I decided to go with the 14/4/2 sorc/fvs/pally build, in part because I also asked around some of the chat channels and they all said they'd done it before and found it a very easy way to get into epics cheap. Several of them had done it (as a WF, not bladeforged) for first lives and found it to be quite viable.

With regards to gearing him, I already have the con-opp, but unfortunately no torc. Without a torc, all these builds lose a fair bit, and unfortunately the raid is rarely run. Other than that, there are a number of items which help (shadow docent, flawless blue). Crystalline scepters are easy to find, and skiver pairs nicely at heroic levels with that. Once I get to 23, I have a Twilight which will help quite a bit.

So, in short it's an easy jump into epics with it. Also, the build is viable out of main ED, which helps since I need to work my way across the entire ED zone to get to shiradi. I also have heavy armor proficiency, and for the cost of dodge cap and 5AP, I can be at -25% ASF (Heavy armor is 35%) and can then slot an augment in the shadowscale docent and really upgrade my survivability with some PRR and DR 30/60. A -15% ASF item would only cost me 3 more AP than current. I'd have to weigh that against dodge cap, but it gives some options.Glad to hear and I think that is a safe/fine choice. I haven't tried the 14Sorc/4Fvs/2Pal platform yet but leveraging the synergy between Fire/Force & the double "free mana" from both Fire Savant's "Fanning the Flames" and FvS "Endless Faith" looks extremely promising/fun.

Going dodge may give you more mileage all the way to 28 (especially if you eR and repeat 20-28 to get ePLs) but the PRR/DR route may be interesting at cap once the ShadowScale is upgraded and you get the DR but sadly I think it is only equipable at 28 once upgraded (and may only get better once the armor changes being discussed hit live). For me I am on the 20->28 treadmill so from memory at 20 I use the commendation docent, at 22 I use the Stone Heart & at 26 I use tier0 (non-upgraded) ShadowScale Docent. I think I have the mats to upgrade it to the ML28 version but since I am not at 28 long (eR at that point) I don't see the point in upgrading at this time.

Best of luck to you and feel free to report back on how it works for you!

Sarzor
08-21-2014, 01:35 PM
Glad to hear and I think that is a safe/fine choice. I haven't tried the 14Sorc/4Fvs/2Pal platform yet but leveraging the synergy between Fire/Force & the double "free mana" from both Fire Savant's "Fanning the Flames" and FvS "Endless Faith" looks extremely promising/fun.

Going dodge may give you more mileage all the way to 28 (especially if you eR and repeat 20-28 to get ePLs) but the PRR/DR route may be interesting at cap once the ShadowScale is upgraded and you get the DR but sadly I think it is only equipable at 28 once upgraded (and may only get better once the armor changes being discussed hit live). For me I am on the 20->28 treadmill so from memory at 20 I use the commendation docent, at 22 I use the Stone Heart & at 26 I use tier0 (non-upgraded) ShadowScale Docent. I think I have the mats to upgrade it to the ML28 version but since I am not at 28 long (eR at that point) I don't see the point in upgrading at this time.

Best of luck to you and feel free to report back on how it works for you!

Thanks for the information about the ML28. I had noticed the base item was 26, and didn't see that upgraded was 28.

I hadn't decided what to use until then. Probably random loot until stone heart, then go from there since the blue scale is pointless with a twilight. If I move to 2x 1-handed, then blue scale may be back on the table. That's one thing I like about how this build appears to play out. So much of it is not gear dependent that it leaves the ability to find stuff along the way.

Nodoze
08-22-2014, 09:32 AM
...If the OP took their barb splash at lvl 1 and they only have one level of barb, then they only need a single LR +1 to swap that barb for rog.Thanks for clarifying as that is good to know. I thought all tri-class builds were stuck with a two step process but glad at least a tri-class with only 1 level at the first level could switch. ...I am thinking of trying a 16Wiz/2Fvs/2Rogue on the next life on a 36 pointer and race-wise I want that character to be a robot (but don't really care much if it is a WarForged or a BladeForged). Being able to go BF could both allow me to leverage the reconstruct SLA and save a lot of XP grinding on a 36 pointer and may be worth a LR+1...

Some follow-up questions just to make sure I understand...

A) Is it a proper statement to say that a tri-class character with only 1 level in a class (or two classes) can switch out the class(es) with a LR+X (meaning that the single level doesn't need to be at the 1st level)?

B) Even though he has 3 classes can I LR+1 a BladeForged 1Paladin/2FvS/12Wizard into a 1Rogue/2FvS/12Wizard ?

C) Even though he has 3 classes can I LR+5 an 18Ranger/1Rogue/1Monk into 16Ranger/2Fighter/2Paladin?

unbongwah
08-22-2014, 09:51 AM
A) Is it a proper statement to say that a tri-class character with only 1 level in a class (or two classes) can switch out the class(es) with a LR+X (meaning that the single level doesn't need to be at the 1st level)?
You can swap out a single class lvl for a different one on a triple-class build BUT you have to do it at the lvl you took that class.

B) Even though he has 3 classes can I LR+1 a BladeForged 1Paladin/2FvS/12Wizard into a 1Rogue/2FvS/12Wizard ?
Yes, b/c the pal splash is at lvl 1, so you could switch to rog then.

C) Even though he has 3 classes can I LR+5 an 18Ranger/1Rogue/1Monk into 16Ranger/2Fighter/2Paladin?
Yes, but you're constrained as to when you do those class swaps. I presume you took rog at lvl 1, so again you would swap that first.

Caprice
08-22-2014, 09:55 AM
I am thinking of trying a 16Wiz/2Fvs/2Rogue on the next life on a 36 pointer and race-wise I want that character to be a robot (but don't really care much if it is a WarForged or a BladeForged). Being able to go BF could both allow me to leverage the reconstruct SLA and save a lot of XP grinding on a 36 pointer and may be worth a LR+1...

Some follow-up questions just to make sure I understand...

A) Is it a proper statement to say that a tri-class character with only 1 level in a class (or two classes) can switch out the class(es) with a LR+X (meaning that the single level doesn't need to be at the 1st level)?

B) Even though he has 3 classes can I LR+1 a BladeForged 1Paladin/2FvS/12Wizard into a 1Rogue/2FvS/12Wizard ?

C) Even though he has 3 classes can I LR+5 an 18Ranger/1Rogue/1Monk into 16Ranger/2Fighter/2Paladin?
A) Yes. The restriction is that you cannot add the new class(es) you are introducing until you remove the levels in the old class(es) you are removing. With just one level in each you can switch those at the level they were chosen. If you have more than 1 level in a class you are removing you have to remove all but one of the levels by switching them to a class you already have, and then you can change the last remaining level in that class to any other class.
B) Yes. You can switch the Paladin straight to Rogue because there are no other levels in Paladin locking you in.
C) Yes. You cannot change any Ranger levels to Fighter or Paladin without eliminating the Rogue or Monk levels first, but you can change the Rogue and Monk levels straight to your new class choice (or even Ranger) and then you can change additional Ranger levels into that new class.

Caprice
08-22-2014, 09:56 AM
Dangit, scooped as always by Unbongwah! ;)

unbongwah
08-22-2014, 10:10 AM
Muahaha, and people said I was mad to take the Forum Ninja PrE - well, who's mad now?!

Caprice
08-22-2014, 10:34 AM
Further details RE: C)

Let's assume that the leveling order was Rogue - some # of Ranger levels - Monk - the rest of the Ranger levels. You can switch Rogue directly to any of Ranger, Fighter, or Paladin, since you have no later levels of Rogue locking you into it. You should probably switch it to Ranger to maximize the skill points you get at level 1 (1st change). You have eliminated your Rogue levels so now you only have 2 classes left in your mix, which means that you can assign any class you want at any level from then on. You can leave the following Rangers in place, or change them to one of Fighter or Paladin, but you cannot change them to a mix of both Fighter and Paladin because you have that later Monk level counting as one of your three possible classes. But since you don't actually need to change them let's just leave them as Ranger for now. When you hit the Monk level you can switch that to anything at all since it is your last Monk level and you have at most 2 other classes (2 if you changed level 1 or any of the following Ranger levels to Fighter or Paladin, or you might just have Ranger at this point). You should change it to Fighter or Paladin (2nd change), and from then on you can change any later Ranger levels you like into the rest of your Paladin and Fighter levels (3 changes required, using up your 3rd/4th/5th allowed changes).

Now as a counter example let's suppose that you had a 16 Ranger / 2 Rogue / 2 Monk that you wanted to make into that same 16 Ranger / 2 Fighter / 2 Paladin. It looks like it's just 4 swaps so you might think that you can LR+5 it, but unfortunately you cannot. To illustrate let's say that the leveling order was Rogue - Ranger - Ranger - Monk - Monk - Rogue - Ranger x 14. You cannot change the Rogue at level 1 to anything but Ranger or Monk because the later Rogue level locks you in, so you have to change that to Ranger (1st change). You leave the next 2 levels as Ranger. At level 4 you are still constrained to just Ranger, Monk, and Rogue because the later Monk and Rogue levels lock you into just those 3 class choices. So you would switch that first Monk level to Ranger again (2nd change). Now at level 5 you can change the Monk pick to any class you want because it is your last Monk level and no later level interferes. So you switch that to Paladin (3rd change). At level 6 you can now change your Rogue level to anything you want because it is your last Rogue level. You switch it to Paladin again (4th). Unfortunately you can only pick up one level of Fighter because having second levels of Rogue and Monk forced you to waste charges on changes to Ranger levels that you did not need otherwise. My illustration was specific but any leveling order will have exactly the same problem. You can do the swap with a LR+5 and a LR+1 taken back to back (after waiting out the LR timer or buying a bypass) or with 2 LR+3s, but that 6th change is needed to make it work.

Nodoze
08-22-2014, 01:16 PM
<good info>
<more good info>
Dangit, scooped as always by Unbongwah! ;)
Muahaha, and people said I was mad to take the Forum Ninja PrE - well, who's mad now?!
Further details RE: C)...Thanks. I think I got it but reserve the right to get confused again next time after not LR+anything for awhile ;-) Hopefully I can come back and reread this info if/when needed...

Wanted to let you know that I did not find the multiple responses from slightly different angles redundant as together they gave me a clearer picture... Thanks for all the effort you gents put in.

I also appreciated the humorous replies as a bonus !

Ultimaetus
08-29-2014, 06:17 PM
Anyone got any ideas for an INT-based thrower possibly using the upcoming harper tree? I've got a 2 Arti/ 1 Rog past life with +5 tome to all skills that I want to TR when that comes.

werewolfofthefuture
08-30-2014, 09:07 PM
I have a conundrum.

A lady friend had her heart set on an idea that she has in her head that the mechanics of D&D seem to absolutely despise, thus leading to a gimped character. The thing is is that she's so set on the idea that it may just be the end of our DDO time if I don't figure it out, since I don't want to play alone, and the other options are just depressing. So I'm hoping someone here can come up with something that could fit what we need without being horrendously underpowered/useless.

Mostly, she wants to be a drow bard/rogue swashbuckler. I know, I know. I've read the forums, I've seen the build attempts, I understand the drawbacks. I'm just hoping that there's some genius builder who could, perhaps, just somehow make this work, to any degree. The parts are really non-negotiable due to the kind of character she wants to play. If this was pen & paper, I could just tweak the rules, but in this case... I can't do that. She comes from that kind of background, so she has the character first, then the mechanics can figure themselves out later.

I'm probably going to back her up as a warforged paladin.

What she wants out of the experience?

- Being able to spot traps and disable them.
- Being able to find hidden doors.
- Going towards using the swashbuckler bard enhancements.
- SWF fighting when she has to, but largely avoiding fighting.
- Being able to use songs for buffs and mild CC.

This will be a starter build, so anything that isn't horribly gimped would be fine. I've done pen & paper before but I'm relatively new to DDO too, I'm familiar-ish, but nowhere near enough to make this work.

Help me, great builders, you're my only hope.

Nodoze
08-31-2014, 12:27 AM
I have a conundrum ... she wants to be a drow bard/rogue swashbuckler ...

I'm probably going to back her up as a warforged paladin.

What she wants out of the experience?

- Being able to spot traps and disable them.
- Being able to find hidden doors.
- Going towards using the swashbuckler bard enhancements.
- SWF fighting when she has to, but largely avoiding fighting.
- Being able to use songs for buffs and mild CC.

This will be a starter build, so anything that isn't horribly gimped would be fine. ...Unless someone finds/creates something better I would start here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443015-U22-Maelodic-Merrily-Murdering-the-Masses-%2820-Bard%29?p=5355598&viewfull=1#post5355598

And compare to this:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler

I don't see why an 18Bard/2Rogue couldn't be fine for EH and below.

The following are some thoughts on party composition...

Edit: I remembered after posting the below that BladeForged may not be Free to Play (F2P) and didn't know if the folk in question were F2Pers... If they are then Warforged would be the only non-fleshie option but otherwise my thoughts still are that the duo may be better served with a fleshie Paladin if the duo has a member who has cure spells and not repair spells (and ideally a fleshie race which has Healing Amplification (http://ddowiki.com/page/Healing_Amplification)). If one has his heart set on WarForged (which is fine form a flavor/RP standpoint) then one option to consider to make the duo mesh better is to take the WarForged healing from -50% to -20% penalty by taking the Healer's Friend (http://ddowiki.com/page/Warforged_enhancements) racial enhancement.

Personally I don't see the value of going Warforged over BladeForged for a Paladin as, in addition to the awesome Reconstruct SLA, BladeForged get full Repair spells as Paladin Spells and has a better racial tree in general. The one thing would be except maybe that you want to level with her but then again maybe you can just not automatically level a BladeForged to 15 and just take levels when she does...

The above being said if she is going Bard she will have decent cure wounds spells and you may get more mileage as a pair if you go fleshy yourself (humans/PDKs and Half Elves can get nice heal amp) as WarForged/BladeForged get half or less out of healing spells (without spending AP). Her being able to heal you may give her something to do if she doesn't want to fight much.

For my duos or small parties, as a general rule, my BladeForged/Warforged melee typical pair with Artificers/Arcanes to get native Repairs and my fleshy melee typically pair with Divines/Bards to get native heals...

samsonov
08-31-2014, 10:54 AM
Hello all,

Was wondering if there's a build for wizard/bard? Want wraith from, single weapon use, perhaps a shield too. And maybe Some points in EK as well.

unbongwah
08-31-2014, 01:28 PM
- SWF fighting when she has to, but largely avoiding fighting.
No offense, but given that DDO is 99% combat, what does your friend expect to do most of the time? :confused: Buffing is pre-combat activity, usually, and there's only so much CCing to be done.

Crann
09-02-2014, 02:46 PM
I have an old 18 Druid, 2 Monk human at level 23 (Lawful Neutral) with both boxes and an LR+20. I am really interested in trying something new, as I have a bad case of Altism.

What I don't want, because I already have:
12f/6M/2P Cleaver Cleaving Pinion Fury shooting BF.
Shiradi Sorc
Melee Cleric
Caster Druid
Bard
Rogue Assassin


I was thinking along the lines of an 8F/9M/3D TWF'ing Nightmares, or something sneak attacky with Celestia's. Leaning more towards Nightmares after reading some threads about neg leveling in Epic content....it still works....right?

Any ideas are welcome.

Nodoze
09-02-2014, 05:11 PM
I have an old 18 Druid, 2 Monk human at level 23 (Lawful Neutral) with both boxes and an LR+20. I am really interested in trying something new, as I have a bad case of Altism.

What I don't want, because I already have:
12f/6M/2P Cleaver Cleaving Pinion Fury shooting BF.
Shiradi Sorc
Melee Cleric
Caster Druid
Bard
Rogue Assassin


I was thinking along the lines of an 8F/9M/3D TWF'ing Nightmares, or something sneak attacky with Celestia's. Leaning more towards Nightmares after reading some threads about neg leveling in Epic content....it still works....right?

Any ideas are welcome.If you haven't tried the following I highly recommend them for at least one life:

- Pure Artificer (Human build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438867-High-DPS-human-artie-build) with FotW for max DPS & you could use a Needle); Note that I actually did the Pure Artificer WF 007 build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer) in Shadow Dancer when I wanted Evasion or FotW for max DPS);

- Full Monk Shuriken thower (Shiradi Shuricannon (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423018-Shiradi-Shuricannon) Drow recommended in Divine Crusader or Shiradi with Celestia as an offhand);

- Hybrid Throwers:
- 12M/5Wiz/3Rogue Halfling (Meteor 1 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441916-The-Meteor-Shower-12Monk-5Wizard-3Rogue-Shuriken-Insanity) in Shadow Dancer or Shiradi with Celestia as an offhand);
- 9Rogue/6Monk/5Wiz Halfling (Meteor 2 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445937-Meteor-Shower-Rev-2-Dark-Stars-%289Rog-6Mnk-5Wiz%29-Halfling) in Shadow Dancer);
- 11Wiz/6Monk/3Rogue Warforged (WarCannon (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441894-Shiradi-Warcannon?p=5329347&viewfull=1#post5329347) in Shiradi with Celestia as an offhand);

Of the above I have leveled to cap multiple times the Artie, Warcannon, & Meteor1 and want to do the full monk version after I make Displacement GS Clickies for that character... I have not tried and don't plan to do the Meteor2 as it is similar to Meteor 1 but think it is a good option if you are focusing on single target boss DPS for Raids.

Sorry only one of the above is Human based as I was initially thinking you were planning on TRing until I reread and saw you were thinking of using your +20...

That being said you could LR+20 into the Human Artie and then TR into one of the others...

That is essentially what I did in that I did a few lives as Arties (using my first box on a Needle) and then I TRed into a thrower for a couple of lives (i did WF Wiz but you can get a Monk, Wiz, or Rogue past life depending on which build you take) and I used my second box on a Celestia... I liked the thrower concept with offhand Celestia so much that we TRed another character on one of my other accounts that also had Celestia into a Meteor1 and my daughers and I run them as a throwing duo for max chaos with minimal SP (both are currently in Shiradi with Celestia's in offhands and Meteoric Star Rubys in the TF Shuriken to there are lots of CC procs)...

That plan of attack would give you an option/reason to try two different CitW weapons...

Caprice
09-02-2014, 05:34 PM
I was thinking along the lines of an 8F/9M/3D TWF'ing Nightmares, or something sneak attacky with Celestia's. Leaning more towards Nightmares after reading some threads about neg leveling in Epic content....it still works....right?

Any ideas are welcome.
What neg level threads were you reading and how recent are they? As of Update 20 (November 2013) level draining was nerfed heavily to be a chance on crit rather than being guaranteed, at which point Nightmare became a much less powerful weapon. It isn't useless but it isn't the powerhouse that it was. I can't recall seeing anyone really formulate any "big name" builds around it anymore like they once did prior to that nerf.

These days the equivalent melee "role" is played by getting a Thunder-forged weapon (http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunder-Forged) with the Mortal Fear tier 3 enchantment which has a 5% crash to halve the HP of any non-named foe you hit. That requires ML28 but your weapon choice doesn't matter as much since you can pick your own.

Nodoze
09-02-2014, 08:40 PM
What neg level threads were you reading and how recent are they? As of Update 20 (November 2013) level draining was nerfed heavily to be a chance on crit rather than being guaranteed, at which point Nightmare became a much less powerful weapon. It isn't useless but it isn't the powerhouse that it was. I can't recall seeing anyone really formulate any "big name" builds around it anymore like they once did prior to that nerf.

These days the equivalent melee "role" is played by getting a Thunder-forged weapon (http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunder-Forged) with the Mortal Fear tier 3 enchantment which has a 5% crash to halve the HP of any non-named foe you hit. That requires ML28 but your weapon choice doesn't matter as much since you can pick your own.I remember hearing Nightmares were nerfed but since I never really built around them (before/after) I couldn't remember the specifics and was hoping someone would provide the correct guidance. On that topic many of the CitW weapons have been superseded by ThunderForged (TF) weapons. From memory the Zues build still uses Sireth and Santa's little slayer stayed with Balizard though many other builds went to TF weapons...

The Heavy Hybrid SWF Soul build (u22-u23) (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444031-Heavy-Hybrid-SWF-Soul-%28U22-U23%29?highlight=celestia+proc+crazy) is Human or PDK based and can be run with multiple weapons but the builder was really intrigued by Celestia for long boss fights due to +50% increased damage from Shield of Condemnation. If +50% damage got him that excited I would love to hear what he thinks were he to get the full +110% damage that is possible with Celestia (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434030-The-plus-100-50-damage-builds?p=5307341&viewfull=1#post5307341) with the right build in the Raid.

Crann
09-02-2014, 10:52 PM
What neg level threads were you reading and how recent are they? A lot of what I read was late 2013, probably before the nerf you spoke of. I was aware of them not working on every crit....but have seen them proc fairly often running in a few pugs lately. I realize the Thunderforged stuff is likely better now, but it seems a shame to leave those boxes unopened :) I have a few builds with Sireth's, looking for a TWF build, if anything for nostalgic reasons, lol. I was considering doing a Rogue/monk type build with Celestias as well, but then read about some problems with them not having a red slot, and weapon effects interfering with their abilities.

Nodoze
09-02-2014, 11:02 PM
A lot of what I read was late 2013, probably before the nerf you spoke of. I was aware of them not working on every crit....but have seen them proc fairly often running in a few pugs lately. I realize the Thunderforged stuff is likely better now, but it seems a shame to leave those boxes unopened :) I have a few builds with Sireth's, looking for a TWF build, if anything for nostalgic reasons, lol. I was considering doing a Rogue/monk type build with Celestias as well, but then read about some problems with them not having a red slot, and weapon effects interfering with their abilities.Celestias are finiky and often combos that look good on paper end (like Drow Warpiest) up ruining their breaking all DR capabilities. If you can find a combo that works they can be fun though and they are unique in the game (for example a single Celestia can get Glancing Blows like a Bastard Sword with a shield).

There are some pretty cool TWF builds that use Morhns (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430998-Noyellowbar-a-100-monk-free-U19-Build-%2815Ranger-4Paladin-1Fighter%29) though I am not sure if they are updated for u22 let alone u23...

...or dual Balizards (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431464-Santa-s-Little-Slayer-Another-Elfin-Centered-Kensai) or Balizard/Agony-or-other-off hand...

Caprice
09-03-2014, 11:03 AM
IIUC the proc rate on level drains dropped to about a third what it had been. That said Nightmare still seems like a solid weapon, but it has gone out of vogue.

As Nodoze says, Celestia is great but I think I'll call it more buggy than just finicky. Lots of bonuses seem to change its damage type from Light to Magic and thus stop it from ignoring DR, including most things that add to its Enhancement bonus (e.g. Warpriest, the Enchant Weapon spell from Artificers or Bard Warchanter), as well as a number of Epic Destiny abilities. The lack of a red slot is a drawback but not the end of the world. You cannot slot Devotion (or Repair) for self-healing and you cannot put any of the nice AoE proc on hit augments (e.g. Meteoric Star Ruby (http://ddowiki.com/page/Meteoric_Star_Ruby)). The former you can address by having a swap weapon or slot it elsewhere with the right drops (e.g. Gauntlet of Immortality (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gauntlets_of_Immortality), Shamanic Fetish (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shamanic_Fetish), or Ring of Master Artifice (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_Master_Artifice) for WF/BF). The latter issue you are stuck with. However the Raider's Reward Box items come as unattuned, don't they? You'll need 25 Commendations of Heroism (BtC) and 375 PDK rep to upgrade a base CitW weapon to the point where it has a slot, which is going to take a while to accumulate. It may only be worth planning a build around unlocking the slot if you are going to Epic Reincarnate in your current life a great many times, and as a fellow altaholic I'm going to guess that's unlikely. So I would suggest that you should not focus on that too much.

Nodoze is suggesting some good builds but I think you won't be able to achieve some due to the 3-class cap during LRs. Do you remember at which levels you picked Monk? The 8F/9M/3D you mentioned in your first post should work, as will the Shuricannon and pure Artificer, but the Noyellowbar, Santa's Little Helper, and the Hybrid Throwers won't. You might also consider a Monkcher build, although you would probably have to do something slightly unusual to adjust to your LR limitations. Also anything with Paladin levels will require a double-LR because Paladins must be Lawful Good but Druids must be semi-Neutral. Thus you would have to LR out the Druid levels entirely, then do an alignment change to Lawful Good, and then LR again into the Paladin levels, which may not be worth it to you.

An alternative would be to go with an "I can do anything really well" Druid build like this one (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427398-Gingerspyce-s-caster-healer-quasi-tank-build). You'd use your raider's boxes for an Agony for yourself and an Antipode for your Wolf (which you then convert into a collar via the House C Device Workstation). Once the armor changes kick in in the next update it should be more effective than ever.

Nephylim3
09-03-2014, 04:05 PM
So the idea came when I was realizing that I had an epic TR and a heroic TR coming within a couple weeks - give or take with my group. I've wanted to try a quarterstaff build and get a paladin life in, and next patch looks to be along the lines to try and make it. The idea I have for a character is either a 15 Paladin / 5 rogue or a 14 paladin / 5 rogue / 1 monk. I'm more partial to the first build as it gives me some trapping skills and retains the paladin holy sword/zeal. Ideally this build would be in heavy armor which, while losing evasion, I would hope to make up for with MRR, or a swap set in case I needed it. It would also have +5 tomes to all stats already.

I imagine what I need help with is how to setup the character (I'm thinking human), and more importantly feat/enhancement setup. I figured a fair amount of my points would drop into knight of the chalice and thief acrobat, which would yield lots of bonuses and cleaves via KOTC. I'm hoping this board can help me put together this idea in a real form, as thus far trying to set it up has not been my strong suit, aside from character concept.

Nodoze
09-03-2014, 04:24 PM
...lots of good info (not surprisingly)...Good points as I was focusing on the human and weapon angles but wasn't thinking about that even with the LR+20 the 3 class limit still applies. Many of those builds are not direct fits but I hoping maybe something jumps out at him and a build could be found or adapted. Thanks for linking the Druid build as I read some of it and liked it and subscribed to it.

Nodoze
09-03-2014, 04:42 PM
So the idea came when I was realizing that I had an epic TR and a heroic TR coming within a couple weeks - give or take with my group. I've wanted to try a quarterstaff build and get a paladin life in, and next patch looks to be along the lines to try and make it. The idea I have for a character is either a 15 Paladin / 5 rogue or a 14 paladin / 5 rogue / 1 monk. I'm more partial to the first build as it gives me some trapping skills and retains the paladin holy sword/zeal. Ideally this build would be in heavy armor which, while losing evasion, I would hope to make up for with MRR, or a swap set in case I needed it. It would also have +5 tomes to all stats already.

I imagine what I need help with is how to setup the character (I'm thinking human), and more importantly feat/enhancement setup. I figured a fair amount of my points would drop into knight of the chalice and thief acrobat, which would yield lots of bonuses and cleaves via KOTC. I'm hoping this board can help me put together this idea in a real form, as thus far trying to set it up has not been my strong suit, aside from character concept.Have you thought about what Epic Destiny you want to play in? Fleshies seem to have lots of synergy with Divine Crusader but Bladeforged with their Reconstruct SLA and repair spells as Paladin spells seem very strong in many destinies.

I did read multiple threads on the changes but haven't had time to get into the test servers nor read many of the threads. I do remember Paladin with Rogue splashes being discussed as the most dominant option until I they changed the Holy Sword bonus (IIRC it is now competence or something like that) so the Rogue route isn't totally over powered (but still sounds strong). Sorry that I barely have time to keep up with the threads I have subscribed that I really don't go searching for new threads and often don't see new threads until they get linked to in another thread that I am already following... I don't know the timing of U23 dropping but I imagine with all the action on the test server that people should be sharing builds soon (if they haven't already). If I see one (or Carpone or Unbongwah or someone links one) I will try to report back and share any insights I may have...

Nephylim3
09-03-2014, 08:57 PM
Have you thought about what Epic Destiny you want to play in? Fleshies seem to have lots of synergy with Divine Crusader but Bladeforged with their Reconstruct SLA and repair spells as Paladin spells seem very strong in many destinies.

I did read multiple threads on the changes but haven't had time to get into the test servers nor read many of the threads. I do remember Paladin with Rogue splashes being discussed as the most dominant option until I they changed the Holy Sword bonus (IIRC it is now competence or something like that) so the Rogue route isn't totally over powered (but still sounds strong). Sorry that I barely have time to keep up with the threads I have subscribed that I really don't go searching for new threads and often don't see new threads until they get linked to in another thread that I am already following... I don't know the timing of U23 dropping but I imagine with all the action on the test server that people should be sharing builds soon (if they haven't already). If I see one (or Carpone or Unbongwah or someone links one) I will try to report back and share any insights I may have...

Divine Crusader was the exact ED that I was going to go for ironically. Just fits the build so well overall. I've not seen any build layouts of this specific mix, although I have been searching. I'm hoping someone can shed some light onto it as it sounds like a real blast to play though. I've tried to piecemeal one together but it's just not coming out well. I tend to get stuck on feats/level order more than anything in this setup.

Nodoze
09-04-2014, 01:27 AM
Divine Crusader was the exact ED that I was going to go for ironically. Just fits the build so well overall. I've not seen any build layouts of this specific mix, although I have been searching. I'm hoping someone can shed some light onto it as it sounds like a real blast to play though. I've tried to piecemeal one together but it's just not coming out well. I tend to get stuck on feats/level order more than anything in this setup.I remember the 14Paladin/5Rogue/1Monk or 15Paladin/5Rogue splits were the foregone conclusion in the Paladin revamp threads until they decided to make Holy Sword into a Competence bonus so it wouldn't stack with the Rogue TA T5 Staff Specialization... I suspect those splits can still be viable but since the are no longer OP the fever has died down but I will keep an eye out for one for you...

Divine Crusader appears solid and seems most synergistic on a Fleshie (though a BF could also run in DC). If you are interested in Divine Crusader, while looking for a Paladin/Rogue build, you may want to read the following threads on builds using Divine Crusader:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444031-Heavy-Hybrid-SWF-Soul-%28U22-U23%29

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440115-Shoikan-A-Divine-Crusader-Warpriest

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440475-Bladed-Crusader-%28Bladeforged-Fvs-18-Pal-2%29

It seems they get the most out of Divine Crusader by mixing in spell/effect damage with their melee and interestingly some of them really don't use any heroic spells focusing on just spells/SLAs/effects from the Epic levels. I am wondering how all the new Paladin abilities are implemented and whether they may be able mix in some of the spell/healing techniques with their physical benefits while in Divine Crusader and would look for synergy there...

Drakyes_01
09-04-2014, 01:47 AM
hello,
Was wondering if u can help me w/ a build, have a 2nd life monk sitting around lvl4 that I intended to be pure wrap user but never play w/ him. Want to make him into a staff user since I have a sireth laying around and seem like q-staff build are good. Don't care if he stay pure or multi-class (i.e rogue, druid,etc) but want to still have the monk icon. He is human, guess he'll be str-based?, don't have much gear but have the staff from threnal. Want to have Cleave/G. cleave since I like cleave n pressing some button instead of just swinging. He currently lawful neutral but since an alignment change to LG cost only 495 (have 361 atm) should able to buy one soon. plan on using a lesser heart so the first 4 lvl must be monk. For tome, just +3 to str, +5 to wisdom and +2 to everything else. Goals is to play in EH mostly but can do some easier EE in a group.
Any other advice would be great.

Caprice
09-04-2014, 10:52 AM
So the idea came when I was realizing that I had an epic TR and a heroic TR coming within a couple weeks - give or take with my group. I've wanted to try a quarterstaff build and get a paladin life in, and next patch looks to be along the lines to try and make it. The idea I have for a character is either a 15 Paladin / 5 rogue or a 14 paladin / 5 rogue / 1 monk. I'm more partial to the first build as it gives me some trapping skills and retains the paladin holy sword/zeal. Ideally this build would be in heavy armor which, while losing evasion, I would hope to make up for with MRR, or a swap set in case I needed it. It would also have +5 tomes to all stats already.

I imagine what I need help with is how to setup the character (I'm thinking human), and more importantly feat/enhancement setup. I figured a fair amount of my points would drop into knight of the chalice and thief acrobat, which would yield lots of bonuses and cleaves via KOTC. I'm hoping this board can help me put together this idea in a real form, as thus far trying to set it up has not been my strong suit, aside from character concept.
These won't be valid for U23, but as starting points for ideas people have had there are Unbongwah's Pld14/Rog5/Ftr1 Knight of the Holy Stick (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435951-Weekend-Warriors-4-Knight-of-the-Holy-Stick-%28pal-14-rog-5%29), Willan's Pld9/Mnk6/Rog5 Divine Staff (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426068-Dr-Willan-or-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-the-Enhancement-Pass) (found near the bottom), and Cardtrick's giant collection of ideas (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440553-Please-help-me-choose-a-staff-paladin-build!). Unbongwah's thread includes a nice list of staves by level and Willan's includes suggestions on initial and late game epic gearing (albeit the latter is a bit outdated since it does not include Haunted Halls/FTP/ToTD items).

One of the compensations we get from switching Holy Sword to a Competence bonus is that Rogue 5 does not give much to a Paladin anymore so you can cut back on the Rogue levels or splash a second class. Rogue 1 gives you the key "Thief Acrobatics" enhancement for +15% attack speed with Quarterstaves, and Rogue 2 gives Evasion and a second key enhancement "Quick Strike" that gives you +25% doublestrike with extremely high uptime (10 seconds out of 12) and potentially Haste Boost. However after that, while there are good abilities in the later tiers they are not nearly as important to the effectiveness of a staff build as those first two tiers are.

So some questions on your situation & goals:
- You mention Human so I guess you are all starting at level 1 rather than rolling Iconics, right?
- Are you going to be the group's primary trapper? If so are you going to be maintaining an Elite Bravery Bonus streak throughout? I ask because that raises the bar on your trap skills.
- 34-point or 36-point build?

Caprice
09-04-2014, 10:59 AM
EllisDee37 put numbers to the challenge of making a Paladin-based character a trapper in this post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422682-Evasion-Paladin-for-new-players?p=5294790&viewfull=1#post5294790) in his/her Evasion Paladin thread. It includes a level by level layout of levels and skill points spent to keep up trap skills.

Nephylim3
09-04-2014, 12:32 PM
These won't be valid for U23, but as starting points for ideas people have had there are Unbongwah's Pld14/Rog5/Ftr1 Knight of the Holy Stick (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435951-Weekend-Warriors-4-Knight-of-the-Holy-Stick-%28pal-14-rog-5%29), Willan's Pld9/Mnk6/Rog5 Divine Staff (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426068-Dr-Willan-or-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-the-Enhancement-Pass) (found near the bottom), and Cardtrick's giant collection of ideas (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440553-Please-help-me-choose-a-staff-paladin-build!). Unbongwah's thread includes a nice list of staves by level and Willan's includes suggestions on initial and late game epic gearing (albeit the latter is a bit outdated since it does not include Haunted Halls/FTP/ToTD items).

One of the compensations we get from switching Holy Sword to a Competence bonus is that Rogue 5 does not give much to a Paladin anymore so you can cut back on the Rogue levels or splash a second class. Rogue 1 gives you the key "Thief Acrobatics" enhancement for +15% attack speed with Quarterstaves, and Rogue 2 gives Evasion and a second key enhancement "Quick Strike" that gives you +25% doublestrike with extremely high uptime (10 seconds out of 12) and potentially Haste Boost. However after that, while there are good abilities in the later tiers they are not nearly as important to the effectiveness of a staff build as those first two tiers are.

So some questions on your situation & goals:
- You mention Human so I guess you are all starting at level 1 rather than rolling Iconics, right?
- Are you going to be the group's primary trapper? If so are you going to be maintaining an Elite Bravery Bonus streak throughout? I ask because that raises the bar on your trap skills.
- 34-point or 36-point build?

We are all epic TRing and then doing a Heroic TR afterwards. As much as I would love to drop into an iconic none of them seem to want to TR into iconics at this time, so I will be starting from level 1.
Ideally I am trying to remain as the groups trapper, albeit it's not set that I will need to be. We would intend to keep elite bravery bonus however, which I know makes the requirements much higher.
This would be a 34 point build as its my first TR.

Those threads look to be able to give me some ideas as well. Obviously with U23 a fair amount of them builds will change, but I'm excited and interested none the less. Thanks Caprice!

Caprice
09-04-2014, 06:59 PM
I'd forgotten that the Paladin spell slot progression is set up so that levels 16-18 are almost a wasteland. Paladin 19 gives the 3rd level 4 spell but dropping to Rogue 1 means a stiff DPS loss that I would not want to take. Paladin 18 is still good for the KotC core (adds another +2d6 Light damage, +500 dmg vs. undead on a natural 20), but with only 2 Rogue levels your skillpoints will at best cover 3 Rogue skills (from Spot, Search, Disable Device, Open Locks, and UMD; i.e. most likely Spot/Search/Disable or Search/Disable/UMD if you can live without Spot) and no Paladin skills. I started figuring out skills based on Human (+1 skill point / level) with 16 INT and a +5 INT tome, which is the most you are going to be able to fit in without starting to undermine your combat abilities. So I guess I am falling back to recommending that Paladin15/Rogue4+1 split idea since you don't really lose any spell slots worth worrying over and you can fill out the Rogue skills a lot better with the extra levels.

Also, thinking about Feats, now that you don't really need Cleave and Great Cleave on a deep Paladin build, you don't really need extra feats on a DPS Paladin. The main things I would want are THF, ITHF, GTHF, IC:Blunt, Power Attack, Empower Heal, and Quicken, and those all fit in the 7 basic heroic feat slots. For Epic feats you will want Overwhelming Critical, but the feat at 24 is up for grabs too. The two Epic Destiny feats could be Perfect THF & TWF for the most DPS-y option, or whatever fits your fancy. As usual the level 27 feat pick should go to one of the special level 27-only feats (e.g. Epic Reflexes, Blinding Speed). So the level 24 feat, Human feat (if you go Human), and any other class feats you pick up are basically optional.

As a Human the Dragonmark of Passage (for 25% Runspeed at low levels, and DDoor later) or DM of Finding (chest buffing, and the Knock DM might make giving up Open Locks more palatable) would be good choices. I am not sure that Stunning Blow will work well in Elites without any serious tactics DC improvements so I hesitate to suggest it, but you can consider it. Can anyone else give some feedback on that? If you do take a class level that grants a feat you can fit in a pair of related feats, like Dodge & Mobility (+5% Dodge, 2% of which ignores your armor's Dodge limit) or Combat Expertise & Improved Trip, but I am not sure that I would call those compelling. If all else fails just stuff in some Toughness feats for extra HP, or you can even take Magical Training as a feat for the extra SP and Echoes to power endless Cocoons in epic levels (if you don't get this via a splash).

So considering some ideas for that +1 level on the Pld15/Rog4/+1 split:

Taking the +1 level as Rogue 5 lets you fill in the Rogue skills a bit better and adds another Sneak Attack die. It offers no feats or additional enhancement options that you should care about.
Monk gives a free feat and access to extra enhancements. Unfortunately the Monk feat list is pretty limited and it seems like it does not really work out well in this case since it left me with an early feat slot that has no good feats available to take (except maybe Dodge or Deflect Arrow). Besides do you really want to live with that annoying red ! all the time for being uncentered?
Fighter also gives a free feat and access to extra enhancements. The feat list is pretty generous and it works well here. You can take Fighter 1 around level 7 or 8 and move down the levels at which you take ITHF, IC:Blunt, and GTHF by 2-3 levels each and that leads to a much smoother feat progression across the heroic levels. It also gives you access to Haste Boost for fewer AP than your other options. This is one of the better splash choices.
Wizard gives free Magical Training (extra SP and it always regenerates to at least 12SP) and 1 free Metamagic feat (e.g. Extend or Quicken). It also opens access to a cheap SLA (probably Shield for Magic Missile & Force Missile immunity) and it gives access to a couple of unusual items that require levels in an Arcane class. This is another decent choice IMO, although it does not help make the heroic feat progression easier.
Druid is sometimes popular on staff builds too; you don't get a feat choice out of it but you do get free Magical Training, like with Wizard. However it also lets you cast Ram's Might (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ram%27s_Might) for a stacking +2 STR and +2 Damage, and Shillelagh (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shillelagh) will increase the damage of a wooden Quarterstaff by +1[W]. However most of the better staves are not wooden (e.g. Theurgic (http://ddowiki.com/page/Theurgic_Stave), Sireth (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sireth,_Spear_of_the_Sky); SOWS (http://ddowiki.com/page/Stout_Oak_Walking_Stick) is the best one that is) so that's not such a big benefit in the long run. I used to like this one but I am less fond of it now.


As usual there are many more enhancements available than AP to spend. So far I am liking:
Human w/ DM of Passage (7 AP): Skill Boost (could change to Damage Boost for better DPS eventually), Improved Recovery, DM Focus 2, Lesser DM (DDoor)
Knight of the Chalice (40 AP): Cores 1-4, Extra Turning, Extra & Exalted & Empowered Smites, both Cleaves, Divine Might, Improved Restoration, Divine Sacrifice & Passion, Vigor of Life, Sealed Life
Sacred Defender (11 AP): Cores 1-2, Extra LoH, Durable Defense, Resilient Defense
Thief Acrobat (18 AP): Core 1, Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics, Quick Strike, Haste Boost

For reference the proposed new Paladin trees are found at Sacred Defender (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446879-Paladin-Sacred-Defender-Changes) and Knight of the Chalice (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446140-Armor-Up-Developer-Diary-3).

At 76 AP spent that leaves 4 AP for optionals. I am thinking about +2 to STR, another Staff Training & No Mercy 2, Action Boost: Damage (from Human after taking STR+1, or from KotC), Censure Demons & Outsiders (in the right content, e.g. Amrath, the Vale of Twilight, Demonweb), Improved Glancing Blows, or maybe splitting the points between Human Skill Focuses "Awareness" and "Nimble Fingers" for easier trapping. If you want the DM of Finding you need to spend 12 AP in Human to get the Greater Dragonmark. I would drop Haste Boost to 2 ranks and spend the leftovers in Human to make up the difference, with 1 AP left over for something minor.

If you splash Fighter 1 then you can drop Haste Boost from Thief Acrobat (saving you 6 AP) and take it cheaper in Kensei instead (for 4 AP total). You could invest the 6 AP elsewhere or put them into Kensei Extra Action Boost to get more Hastes and Skill Boosts, or meshes well with taking the DM of Finding, since saving the AP on the cheaper Haste Boost frees up enough to get to the next tier of DM. Your Kensei Focus Group probably should be Druidic; Quarterstaves are covered under both Druidic and Martial Arts Kensei but you won't have proficiency in any other weapon covered by Martial Arts.

If you splash Wizard 1 then I would recommend putting 1 AP into Archmage Specialization I: Abjuration (Shield, which grants Magic Missile & Force Missile immunity) or maybe Illusion (Invisibility). I'm not as keen about Invis since you can pot it, but it can be useful in a group to cast on your friends too. At 1 SP per cast you probably won't even care about that 30%-50% failure rate from wearing Heavy Armor but you can swap your armor on and off if you are particularly thrifty or a masochist.

You also could try going for another race like Half-Orc (better THF and PA bonuses, DM of Finding) or Elf (DM for Displacement; you'll want Extend too and while you could wait until level 24 to take it I think personally I'd be happier taking a class with a bonus feat in heroics to fit it in much earlier), but if you are not Human then you have to sacrifice on the skill front too. Elf also requires 12 AP in the racial tree to get to Displacement, and Half-Orc may want even more AP spent than that because most of the nicer DPS increases are only available at the 10+ tier (19 or 21 AP looks best). I don't think that the other races bring anything that particularly stands out for this sort of build but there are always possibilities.

So do any of those narrow down to seem particularly interesting to you? E.g.

Best endgame DPS but absolutely minimal necessary Rogue skills (18/2)
Filled out Rogue skills (15/5)
Easiest Heroic feat progression (15/4/Ftr1)
Displacement Elf tweener (15/4/Ftr1 or Wiz1)
(H)Orc SMASH! ... and then daintily picks the lock on the chest
<<Insert your own variation here>>

Nodoze
09-04-2014, 09:39 PM
... I am not sure that Stunning Blow will work well in Elites without any serious tactics DC improvements so I hesitate to suggest it, but you can consider it. Can anyone else give some feedback on that? ...Lots of great info. If you are strength based with Divine Might you have a chance at getting meaningful Tactics... For Tactics I would study the 15Paladin/3Rogue/2Fighter split as a BladeForged and at least twist tactics from Legendary Dreadnaught to see how high you can get. I don't have time right now to re-read the thread for details but from memory I believe there is good info on achievable Tactics in the Cetus Surpreme BladeForged thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter)... If you both are interested in going for that I can try to do some research later.

Burtle
09-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Can anyone give me an "idea" on a maximum dps/decent saves/decent healing build?

I'm looking to TR my dwarven kensai fighter, again.. I just don't know where to start... since pure fighter seems to fall short of anything anymore except for a basic meat shield..

unbongwah
09-05-2014, 09:44 AM
Can anyone give me an "idea" on a maximum dps/decent saves/decent healing build?
Right now, one of the best DPS+self-healing combos is, ironically, a Swashbuckling bard: have a look at the Count (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler) and Jack Dancer (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/442856-Captain-Jack-Dancer-F12-Bd7-C1) for examples of what you can do with pure & MCed bards, respectively. Cetus (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter) is the go-to build for anyone looking for a self-sufficient monk / kensei, although it you don't have Bladeforged unlocked you lose one of its best aspects, the BF Reconstruct SLA.

When U23 rolls out, a pure or mostly-pure pally (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446140-Armor-Up-Developer-Diary-3) is gonna be a much better DPS choice, thanks largely to the buff to Holy Sword (equipped weapons gain +1 crit range & multiplier). The downside is you don't gain lvl 4 spells until pal lvl 14 and the other DPS boosts in KotC are welcome but insufficient on their own, IMHO. Plus ofc U23 hasn't hit live yet; you might be done with your next life by the time it rolls out, for all I know.

unbongwah
09-05-2014, 09:47 AM
Druid is sometimes popular on staff builds too; you don't get a feat choice out of it but you do get free Magical Training, like with Wizard. However it also lets you cast Ram's Might (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ram%27s_Might) for a stacking +2 STR and +2 Damage, and Shillelagh (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shillelagh) will increase the damage of a wooden Quarterstaff by +1[W]. However most of the better staves are not wooden (e.g. Theurgic (http://ddowiki.com/page/Theurgic_Stave), Sireth (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sireth,_Spear_of_the_Sky); SOWS (http://ddowiki.com/page/Stout_Oak_Walking_Stick) is the best one that is) so that's not such a big benefit in the long run. I used to like this one but I am less fond of it now.


If you've figured out how to take a druid splash on a pally, I'd love to know how! ;)

Caprice
09-05-2014, 10:03 AM
If you've figured out how to take a druid splash on a pally, I'd love to know how! ;)
Ironically I had just pointed out that particular impossibility the day before. Meh. I'm certainly not perfect. I think it stands as a general statement on non-Paladin staff builds too though.

Nephylim3
09-05-2014, 10:18 AM
So after looking over that mass pouring of information, I'm thinking the 15/4/1 progression is probably ideal. I can probably get by on trapping skills with backloading the other rogue levels somewhat as to get the best bang for your buck. Likewise, I have no guarantee that I'll be the forced trapper, and aside from the skills boost 5 rogue offers me nothing really. I do however want to be ABLE to disarm traps regardless, although if I solo EH is probably more commonplace. The spare +1 I would love to pull out a monk, however wearing heavy armor would completely remove the stances as an option truthfully. The ideal +1 seems to be a fighter, as the mage +1 I can use a shield wand for the same effect essentially.

I would love to twist a dance of flowers but with no monk ranks it certainly doesn't seem ideal unless I give up my heavy armor. Given the way Lammania has gone, I actually wouldn't mind giving up on heavy armor but I wanted to at least give it a shot. Given that I chose to, it would reopen monk and it's stances, and give me options to go up their stance tree at least.

It's looking like a 15 pal / 5 rogue or 15 pal /4 rogue / 1 fighter is the direction I'll be aiming. I'm hoping to be a high offense character than can trap reasonably well and tank in a super pinch if need be, but I may be overreaching there.

Caprice
09-05-2014, 11:34 AM
When U23 rolls out, a pure or mostly-pure pally (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446140-Armor-Up-Developer-Diary-3) is gonna be a much better DPS choice, thanks largely to the buff to Holy Sword (equipped weapons gain +1 crit range & multiplier). The downside is you don't gain lvl 4 spells until pal lvl 14 and the other DPS boosts in KotC are welcome but insufficient on their own, IMHO.
Other than Swashbuckler, no one else gets access to the tier 5 enhancements that provide the equivalent Competence bonuses to weapon critical profiles until character level 12 either, so at least on a pure Paladin you aren't waiting that much longer for the big boost when compared to Fighter, Rogue, Monk, or Barbarian. Since most of us are going to spend a lot more time at levels 14+ than at levels 12 and 13, that's not a big downside IMO.

I also more or less disagree on the KotC enhancements being insufficient. The KotC Cores grant +1d6 damage at level 1, +2d6 @3, +3d6 @6, +4d6 @12, +6d6 @18, and +8d6@20. IMO those are really nice bonuses for heroic leveling and slightly better than the passive bonuses that the other physical damage trees offer. For example compare those to the +1/+2 damage per tier we see for most weapon improvements (e.g. Kensei's Weapon Group Specialization, Henshin/Acrobat's Staff Training, or Battle Engineer's Weapon Training). Other trees may edge out ahead on damage due to having better special attacks and things like Power Surge, but it does not look like a major difference anymore and KotC has much better survivability perks than those others. My biggest complaint is that the KotC cleaves come later than the feats but the KotC ones do more base damage which helps mitigate the delay somewhat.

We'll see if a hypothetical future Fighter pass in U25 or whenever scales Kensei through the roof but for now I expect that the combination of the new KotC enhancements and the armor changes in U23 will mean that Paladin will be the easiest physical damage class to level by a good margin, even ignoring the better saves and good self-healing.

Caprice
09-05-2014, 12:07 PM
I would love to twist a dance of flowers but with no monk ranks it certainly doesn't seem ideal unless I give up my heavy armor. Given the way Lammania has gone, I actually wouldn't mind giving up on heavy armor but I wanted to at least give it a shot. Given that I chose to, it would reopen monk and it's stances, and give me options to go up their stance tree at least.

It's looking like a 15 pal / 5 rogue or 15 pal /4 rogue / 1 fighter is the direction I'll be aiming. I'm hoping to be a high offense character than can trap reasonably well and tank in a super pinch if need be, but I may be overreaching there.
A Paladin15/Rogue4/Monk1 could be a great build too. You end up with an early feat slot with nothing nice to put in it (defaults to Toughness) and the later/stronger/nicer feats are all delayed a couple levels but it should work out in the end, especially since you have a group to level with on those "feat slippage" levels.

Nodoze
09-05-2014, 01:19 PM
... It's looking like a 15 pal / 5 rogue or 15 pal /4 rogue / 1 fighter is the direction I'll be aiming. I'm hoping to be a high offense character than can trap reasonably well and tank in a super pinch if need be, but I may be overreaching there.
A Paladin15/Rogue4/Monk1 could be a great build too. You end up with an early feat slot with nothing nice to put in it (defaults to Toughness) and the later/stronger/nicer feats are all delayed a couple levels but it should work out in the end, especially since you have a group to level with on those "feat slippage" levels.If you are trying to tank for your group you may be able to double dip to get extra hate generation in both the Paladin and Fighter trees with Fighter 1 from Inciting Defense's 75% Competence bonus to melee threat generation. IIRC that doesn't require an active stance that conflicts with other stances. I haven't personally tried it yet but I have noticed it as possible low hanging fruit for a tankish Paladin that splashes Fighter and hope to fully verify it at some point.

Also, in case you missed it, I think MacRighteous (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422682-Evasion-Paladin-for-new-players?p=5422385&viewfull=1#post5422385) linked a 15Paladin/5Rogue (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435951-Weekend-Warriors-4-Knight-of-the-Holy-Stick-%28pal-14-rog-5%29) build for you in response to your related questions in the Evasion Paladin thread... Figured I would post it here in this thread to make sure you saw it and for others that come and maybe are interested in a similar split...

Caprice
09-05-2014, 02:42 PM
Also, in case you missed it, I think MacRighteous (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422682-Evasion-Paladin-for-new-players?p=5422385&viewfull=1#post5422385) linked a 15Paladin/5Rogue (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435951-Weekend-Warriors-4-Knight-of-the-Holy-Stick-%28pal-14-rog-5%29) build for you in response to your related questions in the Evasion Paladin thread... Figured I would post it here in this thread to make sure you saw it and for others that come and maybe are interested in a similar split...
One caveat is that the Knight of the Holy Stick build isn't a long-term trapper, since he is taking Rogue 5 by character level 12 to get Staff Specialization ASAP and the Rogue skills can't keep up afterwords.

Nodoze
09-05-2014, 08:39 PM
One caveat is that the Knight of the Holy Stick build isn't a long-term trapper, since he is taking Rogue 5 by character level 12 to get Staff Specialization ASAP and the Rogue skills can't keep up afterwords.Good point. I guess one would have to modify it to spread the Rogue levels out and later like Ellis did in this post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422682-Evasion-Paladin-for-new-players?p=5422561&viewfull=1#post5422561) (posting here for folk who are following this thread but not the others).

Raven_Swift
09-25-2014, 11:10 AM
Don't know if i am just in denial, but I was hoping to make a pure paladin out of my pdk to fully take advantage of the pdk enhancement line. Is it possible to reincarnate a 1 fighter/14 paladin pdk to a 15 paladin. If so, any good points on the pure paladin build with pdk enhancement line? I figured maybe someone has done this and has some advice, or a build even. I enjoy crushing undead, fiends, evil slayers and the such. Is there charisma for damage weapons out there that I can take advantage of?

Nodoze
09-25-2014, 12:38 PM
Don't know if i am just in denial, but I was hoping to make a pure paladin out of my pdk to fully take advantage of the pdk enhancement line. Is it possible to reincarnate a 1 fighter/14 paladin pdk to a 15 paladin. If so, any good points on the pure paladin build with pdk enhancement line? I figured maybe someone has done this and has some advice, or a build even. I enjoy crushing undead, fiends, evil slayers and the such. Is there charisma for damage weapons out there that I can take advantage of?Yes you can LR+1 to swap to pure Paladin as long as you are LG. AFAIK, unless something has changed, they have unfortunately kept Divine Might as being only a bonus for Strength based Paladins so PDK Charisma based, Elven Dex based, & Dwarven Con based Paladins will be behind on damage...

You can go strength based and still leverage many good things in the PDK tree without necessarily going Charisma based for damage as the tree has many good things. That being said going Charisma based may not please min/maxers but is certainly fine for flavor or otherwise with some benefits especially if you are aware of the pros/cons and make that decision with your eyes wide open.

I haven't seen any builds posted yet but will keep my eyes open for one...

maayan2003
09-27-2014, 07:07 AM
i really like the idea of fighting with a staff :D

and would love if somebody could point me to a first life 28pt/32pt staff build

unbongwah
09-27-2014, 12:31 PM
See my Halfling Acrobat and Three Ring Circus (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/399244-Three-Ring-Circus-Staff-wielding-Acrobat-II-Builds) threads; note that the latter hasn't been updated for the current Enhancements (sorry!), although the basic advice still applies.

I've also been kicking around some ideas for post-U23 rog 13 / pal 4 / wiz 3 F2P staff builds; haven't gotten around to making any of them, though.

IshmaylFading
09-29-2014, 01:52 PM
Hey there,
I've recently gotten back into DDO after about a year off, and want to use my Lesser Oak Branch to respec my main toon. Currently he's level 25, Ftr1/Pal19, and is kind of all over the place in build. I know that that class selection & race are not the ideal for a good Intimitank, but I would like to keep playing him. Can someone build me a Ftr1/Pal19 intimitank so I can not suck so much? :)

unbongwah
09-29-2014, 02:36 PM
By "Lesser Oak Branch," I presume you mean a Lesser Heart of Wood. Which combat style did you want to use? I.e., S&B, THF, etc.

IshmaylFading
09-29-2014, 03:08 PM
By "Lesser Oak Branch," I presume you mean a Lesser Heart of Wood. Which combat style did you want to use? I.e., S&B, THF, etc.

Yeah, that's what I meant, I was going from memory. :)

I play dwarven war axes (or occasional warhammers & battleaxes) & tower shield, I guess that's technically S&B.

unbongwah
09-29-2014, 04:01 PM
I've not yet worked out any new builds for U23, so for now I'll point you at my Sacred Defender thread and say, "do something like that, but take the Cleave atks from KotC instead of the Cleave feats." :)

Tilomere
10-05-2014, 01:15 AM
That can Mass Hold + Energy burst, and still melee decently with Int to attack/damage or charisma to attack/damage. And self heal of course.

Caprice
10-06-2014, 12:53 PM
That can Mass Hold + Energy burst, and still melee decently with Int to attack/damage or charisma to attack/damage. And self heal of course.
That Arcane Spell Failure target is rough. Plate (Heavy Armor) has 35% ASF and Tower Shield has 50%, which combines for a total of 85% ASF. You can get up to 40% ASF reduction from EK, 15% from an augment or gear*, and 15% from race (Elf/HElf/ML or WF)**. That totals to 70% maximum reduction possible, so you would fail casts 15% of the time. I wouldn't call that acceptable.

Would you consider dropping to a Large shield? Those only have 15% ASF vs Tower's 50%, so Heavy + Large totals at 50% ASF. 50% ASF reduction is achievable, and lets you either have free race choice or choose T5 in a different PrE. Of course the shield collection is worse for Larges, not just because the AC and Blocking DR is lower, but also just thinking about epic options. On a Divine a Dethek Runestone is great but it isn't as appealing for an Arcane, other than the 20 Alchemical USP. The PDK or Bulwark Tower shields would offer more.


* Technically 20% is possible on gear but it only comes on a single piece of named armor that isn't Heavy. Some special gear has lower ASF on it that is specific to that armor/shield (e.g. MFP) but those will be terrible choices at higher levels.
** IIUC Racial ASF reduction only works for armor/plating ASF, 10% of the EK reduction also only applies to armor, and 5% of the EK ASF reduction only applies to shields. That can complicate things too.

unbongwah
10-06-2014, 02:55 PM
That can Mass Hold + Energy burst, and still melee decently with Int to attack/damage or charisma to attack/damage. And self heal of course.
Mass Hold is tricky, since you need at least lvl 7 spells for Mass Hold Person (wiz 13 / sorc 14); but ofc the more you MC the worse your DCs & Spell Pen gets.

My first thought is BF w/Addy Body and Skyvault Shield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Skyvault_Shield_%28Level_25%29) (zero ASF and 3 aug slots to customize it). Between BF & EK ASF reduction enhs plus ASF gear (http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_spell_failure#Item_Enhancements), you should be able to eliminate it. Pal / sorc is the obvious combo, I guess. PDK for CHA-to-dmg w/b.swords would also work; not sure what you'd do for self-healing then, though.

Another possibility would be to modify my Lich Knight build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449603-Build-Request-Death-Knight?p=5444642&viewfull=1#post5444642): I went SWF w/orbs, but swapping those feats for S&B would work too. Sun elf is best choice if you're looking to max out your INT and Spell Pen (and don't mind paying for the LR); that requires redistributing APs, though.

Tilomere
10-06-2014, 04:00 PM
Mass Hold is tricky, since you need at least lvl 7 spells for Mass Hold Person (wiz 13 / sorc 14); but ofc the more you MC the worse your DCs & Spell Pen gets.

My first thought is BF w/Addy Body and Skyvault Shield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Skyvault_Shield_%28Level_25%29) (zero ASF and 3 aug slots to customize it). Between BF & EK ASF reduction enhs plus ASF gear (http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_spell_failure#Item_Enhancements), you should be able to eliminate it. Pal / sorc is the obvious combo, I guess. PDK for CHA-to-dmg w/b.swords would also work; not sure what you'd do for self-healing then, though.

Another possibility would be to modify my Lich Knight build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449603-Build-Request-Death-Knight?p=5444642&viewfull=1#post5444642): I went SWF w/orbs, but swapping those feats for S&B would work too. Sun elf is best choice if you're looking to max out your INT and Spell Pen (and don't mind paying for the LR); that requires redistributing APs, though.

I actually wanted Hold Monster, Mass which is lvl 9 spell. So 17 Wiz/18 Sorc. I figured since pdk was charisma to hit, but you couldn't heal as a sorc-pdk, you had to be a wizzy.

Tower Shield is 50 ASF, -30 for EK -5 to 15 for Sapphire leaves some ASF left. I think only skyvault or a crystalline tower shield will work. Realistically only skyvault. So I think I only have to reduce ASF of armor to 0 from 35. Morninglord will give -15, sapphire of spell agility will give -15, leaving -5 from EK which you get for 6 points.


This is my thoughts so far:

18 Wiz 1 Bard 1 Fighter or Cleric SWF Drow or Morninglord

Necro 11 Shroud of the Vampire (2 Enchant DC)
Spell Singer 1 (1 Enchant DC)
Drow or Morninglord 8 (1 Enchant DC, -15 ASF)
School Mastery Archmage 32 (2 Enchant DC)
EK 6 (ASF Reduction -5)
Harper 12 (Int to attack/dmg/DM)

Free Enhancements: 10

Wiz Free Feat (Spell Focus) (1 Enchant DC)
Leveling Feat (Greater Spell Focus) (1 Enchant DC)
Leveling Epic Spell Focus (1 Enchant DC)
Leveling Feat (2xSpell Pen)
3xSWF, PSWF
Tower Shield (Cleric version only)
Insightful Reflexes
IC:Piercing?

I'm not sure this is a high enough enchantment DC. I don't have any past lives on a caster for this guy.

unbongwah
10-06-2014, 04:22 PM
Spell Singer 1 (1 Enchant DC)
SS description says, "Each Spellsinger Core Ability other than the Capstone (Maestro of Life and Death) you acquire after this one grants +1 DCs to Enchantment, Evocation, and Illusion spells." I interpret that as meaning the first and last of the core enhancements doesn't boost your DCs, but everything in between does. You'll obviously want to test that before committing yourself.

3xSWF, PSWF
What would be the point of taking SWF on a build which plans to use a tower shield? Or are you already thinking of switching to orbs instead?

Tower Shield (Cleric version only)
Master's Touch grants TS prof, so no need to take the feat.

New-RS-God
10-07-2014, 10:50 PM
Been searching for an up to date Fire Savant. Why is it so hard to find a build, for 2014.
All the builds I have found, were all still using the old Enhancements.

So, my requests is:

•1st life 20 Sorcerer
-Fire Savant
•Race:
-Drow
-Human
•Max DPS
•Level by Level coded page

Thank You,
~Neu~

drnknmnky
10-08-2014, 06:05 PM
My only other toon that I played enough to get boxes. I had no idea what I was doing when I made this guy. Just decided to log in and was surprised to see the boxes. Can I make something workable with this to get him to 20 and TR? I have the 20+heart and 0 heart but would like to save the 20+ if possible.

Caprice
10-08-2014, 06:49 PM
My only other toon that I played enough to get boxes. I had no idea what I was doing when I made this guy. Just decided to log in and was surprised to see the boxes. Can I make something workable with this to get him to 20 and TR? I have the 20+heart and 0 heart but would like to save the 20+ if possible.
Getting to 20 shouldn't be too hard with what you have already. Ranger 6 immediately says to me "Manyshot" with its excellent ranged burst DPS. That's the main reason to take that many Ranger levels. I would build on that. What are your current attributes? What are your feats? You might not even need to LR at all. And do you have any specific heroic weapons you would like to work around?

My initial suggestion would be to take Monk 3 for Fists of Light (incremental combat self-healing), Paladin 2 to unlock Divine Grace (better saves based on CHA), and then take Ranger to 11 for GTWF and IPS. If you haven't already done so you probably want to take Zen Archery so bows are Centered weapons and you won't lose your Ki when you swap one in to use Manyshot. The last 4 levels can go anywhere if you are just TRing. 2 more into Paladin would get you Divine Might (in KotC) for more DPS, 3 more Paladin gets you Defensive Stance, and 3 more into Monk would get you the excellent defensive ability Shadow Veil (in Ninja Spy) plus a feat. So I guess I'd aim for something like a Ranger 11 / Monk 6 / Paladin 3. Alternatively Paladin is fairly strong in this patch (U23) and Paladin 6 would probably be a stronger DPS option, if you wanted to go Ranger 11 / Paladin 6 / Monk 3. In either case the AP will be too stretched to get everything but you will have some good options to pick between.

Having Ranger as your core class means you can start your EDs in Primal so you may want to get enough XP at 20 to unlock Rejuvenation Cocoon, rather than TRing straight at 20. I'd probably start in Shiradi, level it to 3, jump to Primal Avatar just long enough to max out Cocoon to 3/3, and then TR.

drnknmnky
10-08-2014, 07:15 PM
My current stats are:

Str :14
Dex:18+1 tome
Con:12+1 tome
Int: 13
Wis:14
Cha:11

I assume I was doing a dex build. Looks like I chose combat expertise, IC:Pierce, Dodge, Spring attack, and Mobility. This was from 4 years ago. Definitely think I should use the 0-heart of wood. I have experience with Rangers and no experience with monks or paladins so I would be more comfortable with at least 11 or 12 ranger and then whatever makes the most sense. 11/6/3? I am willing to buy tomes as this will be my only alt. More of a focus on melee but good range options would be nice.

drnknmnky
10-08-2014, 08:49 PM
I know this would completely make it so that only benefit of 2 monk was feats and a boost to saving throws over 2 levels of fighter and completely uselessly getting evasion, but with the new changes-completely dex dumped TWF Str build with high Strength and Charisma for saves and Divine might?

Str: 16 all level ups
Dex:10
Con:14
Int :10
Wis:10
Cha:16

!2 Ranger 6 paladin 2 monk meaning I only have to use 0 heart of wood.
Heavy armor so can use defensive stance. I really don't see anything saying I cant use the good stuff from ranger dual wielding in heavy armor but I am probably missing something.

Caprice
10-09-2014, 09:49 AM
I know this would completely make it so that only benefit of 2 monk was feats and a boost to saving throws over 2 levels of fighter and completely uselessly getting evasion, but with the new changes-completely dex dumped TWF Str build with high Strength and Charisma for saves and Divine might?

Str: 16 all level ups
Dex:10
Con:14
Int :10
Wis:10
Cha:16

!2 Ranger 6 paladin 2 monk meaning I only have to use 0 heart of wood.
Heavy armor so can use defensive stance. I really don't see anything saying I cant use the good stuff from ranger dual wielding in heavy armor but I am probably missing something.
That looks like a solid setup to me. As far as I can tell Tempest should work fine in heavy armor, except the tier 5 ability "Evasive Dance" which keys off of Evasion, although I have not tested that. The major downside IMO is that you will perpetually have a red exclamation mark on your screen for being unCentered. It bothers me but you may not find it as annoying.

I think it will play well in epics too. If you wanted to stick around and unlock some EDs you should have great performance in SC, FotW, LD, SD, GMoF (switching to robes to be centered), and DC (and US is worth unlocking too). That's good coverage of 3 of the 4 spheres, and Fatesinger in Aracne doesn't add a lot but wouldn't be too terrible. Paladin 6 would also let you start in the Divine sphere if you wanted to. I'm a big fan of unlocking Cocoon ASAP because it makes self-healing almost ridiculously cost effective but YMMV.

unbongwah
10-09-2014, 09:59 AM
Been searching for an up to date Fire Savant. Why is it so hard to find a build, for 2014.
All the builds I have found, were all still using the old Enhancements.
You don't see many updated sorc builds because (A) pure sorcs haven't changed much and (B) most Fire Savants go for FvS splash for AoV bonuses (e.g., Scorcher (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi))). Have a look at this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436673-Starting-new-sorc-at-lvl-7-need-advice); plenty of advice and a few builds to choose from for the newbie sorc.

Tilomere
10-10-2014, 06:07 AM
So, my requests is:

•1st life 20 Sorcerer

Thank You,
~Neu~

In heroics, you just fill out the fire savant tree and get every possible metamagic for your SLAs, and spend extra feats on mental toughness and spell focus: evo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is what I'm looking to make, but I have full destinies available. I also prefer elegant synergy builds over raw power. This is what I came up with to replace the melee/ek/mass hold/eb/plate/shield combo I couldn't figure out how to make above. I think it was that mass hold had too high of an investment, so I switched it with soundburst SLA, which freed up a ton of feats and flexibility. I don't do level by level breakdowns because my builds morph as they level.



18 Sorc 2 Pali HELF

Feats: Maximize swapped to Toughness, Empower swapped to Extend, Quicken, , FoP, MT, IMT, Shield Deflection
Epic Feats: Epic Toughness, Epic Mental Toughness, Epic Spell Power Fire, Epic DR,Epic Spell Power Positive

Enhancements
21 HELF 20% HAMP Human, 20% HAMP Monk, Arcane Fluidity -15% ASF Armor
4 SaD Extra Lay on Hands
21 Fire Savant
23 EK -15 ASF Armor and shields
11 KotC Divine Might (power with US turning)

ED: US with Consecrate, Energy Burst, and Sound Burst SLA twisted. Self and group healing with renewal.

Wall of Wood + PDK Gloves for 20%/30% HAMP plus devotion

-5 ASF Augment covers remaining ASF of 35% ASF (plate) + 15 ASF (Wall of Wood) after enhancements

I'm replacing mass hold monster with soundburst SLA, and melee with Consecrate + Divine Might charisma powered to hit/dmg. Also decided to boost saving throws, self healing, and defenses through the stratosphere. US will give 10% HAmp, which will combine with 20%, 20%, 20%, and 30% above (plus I have pali past life) for 2.6x heals. Plus US will give tons of tankyness, healing, and turning ability to power divine might.

I'm gona use all the mana to spam neg level spells and for Consecrate as I melee. For party play (I rarely solo).

Level with maximize/empowered SLAs, and feat swap them out at level 18 before I take 20 for epic play. Melee with draining weapon for more neg-level juice and neg levels. I think this gives me the decent melee effectiveness I was looking for. Divine might to make melee decent. Draining procs to fuel neg level spells and draining neg level procs makes melee relevant and fit the build. Yes. This is exactly what I was looking for. Elegant synergy.

New-RS-God
10-10-2014, 07:12 PM
You don't see many updated sorc builds because (A) pure sorcs haven't changed much and (B) most Fire Savants go for FvS splash for AoV bonuses (e.g., Scorcher (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi))). Have a look at this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436673-Starting-new-sorc-at-lvl-7-need-advice); plenty of advice and a few builds to choose from for the newbie sorc.

Dont have FvS, so Scorcher (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi)) is out.
Only coded build on the second thread is a WF Caster (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436673-Starting-new-sorc-at-lvl-7-need-advice?p=5260399&viewfull=1#post5260399), don't have WF. But, I want a coded build like the WF caster, but Drow. I'm not great at revising builds into dif races. And, I want a pure Sorc.


18 Sorc 2 Pali HELF

Feats: Maximize swapped to Toughness, Empower swapped to Extend, Quicken, , FoP, MT, IMT, Shield Deflection
Epic Feats: Epic Toughness, Epic Mental Toughness, Epic Spell Power Fire, Epic DR,Epic Spell Power Positive

Enhancements
21 HELF 20% HAMP Human, 20% HAMP Monk, Arcane Fluidity -15% ASF Armor
4 SaD Extra Lay on Hands
21 Fire Savant
23 EK -15 ASF Armor and shields
11 KotC Divine Might (power with US turning)

ED: US with Consecrate, Energy Burst, and Sound Burst SLA twisted. Self and group healing with renewal.

Wall of Wood + PDK Gloves for 20%/30% HAMP plus devotion

-5 ASF Augment covers remaining ASF of 35% ASF (plate) + 15 ASF (Wall of Wood) after enhancements

I'm replacing mass hold monster with soundburst SLA, and melee with Consecrate + Divine Might charisma powered to hit/dmg. Also decided to boost saving throws, self healing, and defenses through the stratosphere. US will give 10% HAmp, which will combine with 20%, 20%, 20%, and 30% above (plus I have pali past life) for 2.6x heals. Plus US will give tons of tankyness, healing, and turning ability to power divine might.


First, I don't have Helf. Second, I want pure sorc, no multiclasses please. Third, please put it in a code, all that /\ there confuses me.
And, I got the fact of the Enhancements. But, I want to know what enhancements are better early on. Then, I don't know what feats and spells to take at what level.

Revising requested build:
1st life
lv.20 pure Drow Sorcerer
Fire Savant
Max Dps
Coded level by level
No multiclasses/must be drow


Thank You,
~Neu~

drnknmnky
10-18-2014, 12:15 AM
That looks like a solid setup to me. As far as I can tell Tempest should work fine in heavy armor, except the tier 5 ability "Evasive Dance" which keys off of Evasion, although I have not tested that. The major downside IMO is that you will perpetually have a red exclamation mark on your screen for being unCentered. It bothers me but you may not find it as annoying.

I think it will play well in epics too. If you wanted to stick around and unlock some EDs you should have great performance in SC, FotW, LD, SD, GMoF (switching to robes to be centered), and DC (and US is worth unlocking too). That's good coverage of 3 of the 4 spheres, and Fatesinger in Aracne doesn't add a lot but wouldn't be too terrible. Paladin 6 would also let you start in the Divine sphere if you wanted to. I'm a big fan of unlocking Cocoon ASAP because it makes self-healing almost ridiculously cost effective but YMMV.

Thank you Caprice, I am going to give it a try.

Djinni
11-14-2014, 08:41 PM
34 point Lawful Good Human female seeks paladin-based build with good solo potential, not useless in groups. VIP account

Returned to DDO after years away to find my level 20+ cleric is now a TR'd level 3 paladin. Hoping to use the +0 LR to make her viable. I'm fine with picking up a level of another class before LRing (so I could take it first for skill points or feat order if needed).

My first choice would be a tank, but might not have the gear for it. Plus who needs to hold threat soloing? To be clear I like grouping, but I'm not familiar enough with many instances to feel comfortable going in with a group, especially as tank.

My past life tomes are gone. Gear I have left over from the cleric life is probably pretty out of date now. I have no khopeshes or bastard swords, and very little plat since I gave most of it away when leaving. Don't have a guild so don't have ship buffs.

For combat styles I prefer S&B, then TWF or THF, then ranged. The minor role playing aspect of a traditional heavily armored paladin, but I'm open to other stuff.

--
Edit: I just noticed unbongwah has a new Sacred Vanguards (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/451677-Sacred-Vanguards-%28aka-Revisiting-S-amp-B-Paladins-for-New-Players%29) S&B paladin thread. Other ideas and links are still appreciated. Can you pull off a bastard sword build without tons of plat or a bank full of nice swords?

elcagador
11-14-2014, 10:36 PM
34 point Lawful Good Human female seeks paladin-based build with good solo potential, not useless in groups. VIP account

Returned to DDO after years away to find my level 20+ cleric is now a TR'd level 3 paladin. Hoping to use the +0 LR to make her viable. I'm fine with picking up a level of another class before LRing (so I could take it first for skill points or feat order if needed).

My first choice would be a tank, but might not have the gear for it. Plus who needs to hold threat soloing? To be clear I like grouping, but I'm not familiar enough with many instances to feel comfortable going in with a group, especially as tank.

My past life tomes are gone. Gear I have left over from the cleric life is probably pretty out of date now. I have no khopeshes or bastard swords, and very little plat since I gave most of it away when leaving. Don't have a guild so don't have ship buffs.

For combat styles I prefer S&B, then TWF or THF, then ranged. The minor role playing aspect of a traditional heavily armored paladin, but I'm open to other stuff.

--
Edit: I just noticed unbongwah has a new Sacred Vanguards (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/451677-Sacred-Vanguards-%28aka-Revisiting-S-amp-B-Paladins-for-New-Players%29) S&B paladin thread. Other ideas and links are still appreciated. Can you pull off a bastard sword build without tons of plat or a bank full of nice swords?

S&B Paladins are good but if you don't have much gear they will lack a bit on dps at low levels (until you get holy sword spell, a good S&B weapon, shield, and some meele alacrity gear), Thats why I recommend a Swf (Single weapon fighting) or THF (Two handed fighting style), that way you have more weapon options to look for in the auction house, If SWF you can use a Scimitars or Longsword or bastard swords/dwarven axe (if taking the proficiency feat), and using improved critical slashing; If going THF you can use a greatsword or Falchion or great axe; in both cases you only need to invest on one main weapon, and have more options at the auction house to get a good sale and Dr breakers/ghostbane, etc. Also both styles give more dps than S&B (Thf is very good at low levels with power attack and the cleaves from Knight of the chalice tree, Swf get better once you take the Swf feats that greatly increase your attack speed and still can use the cleaves from Kotc tree and also can combine that with the good defenses of sacred defender tree.)

Race: Human, for extra feature, more heal amplification for self heal, human damage boost and extra skill point.

Stats: 17 str+ lvl ups, 16 cha, 10 wis, 12 int(for some skill points like heal, intim, umd, concentration, some balance if taking swf feats and maybe combat expertise), 14 con at least for hitpoints.

Feats: Human Power attack, lvl 1 Swf/Thf, lvl 3 magical training, lvl 6 empower healing, lvl 9 improved critical slashing, lvl 12 ISwf/IThf,
lvl 15 GSwF/GTHF, lvl 18 quicken spell or bastard sword profic.(if swf), lvl 21 Overwhelming critical, lvl 24 shield mastery(if using swf with orb) or force of personality(if THF), lvl 26 PSwf/PTwf, lvl 27 Improved shield mastery or cleave(for momentum swing twist), lvl 28 (elusive target, epic spellpower positive or first blood)

Enhancements: Main tree Knight of the chalice at least 41 pt for champion of good, heal amplification, cleaves, energy drain immunity, etc; Sacred defender 30 pt for greater stances and 10% meele speed, redemption, bonus to ac and saves, Human for damage boost, heal amplification and stats.

Caprice
11-17-2014, 05:55 PM
I strongly recommend against creating a character that takes the Shield Mastery feats to use with an orb as this is being changed in U24. Orbs will no longer qualify as shields for the SM feats. You may still want both SWF and Shield Mastery so you can gain SWF benefits with an orb and separately gain Shield Mastery benefits while using a shield so that you have offensive and defensive options, but the option to stack both sets of benefits will be gone.

GamerGoddessDin
03-05-2015, 10:25 PM
I'm wanting to make a 32-point Purple Dragon Knight to solo F2P Favor Quests up to level 15, possibly further if the character levels enough during the lower level stuff.

Aside from default F2P stuff I have the Standard Digital editions of the Expansions. I plan on making one on each server. All but 3 of them will be "1 per server" characters as far as the bonus items from the expansions go.

NOTE: Multiclassing is available but Level 1 is stuck as Fighter.

unbongwah
03-06-2015, 09:02 AM
I'm wanting to make a 32-point Purple Dragon Knight to solo F2P Favor Quests up to level 15, possibly further if the character levels enough during the lower level stuff.
All Iconics start with enough XP for level 15 and are subject to the usual XP-save cap; which means you won't gain any XP until you take lvl 14. So while you can level-save to run lower-lvl quests if you want, you don't gain any XP; although you may prep your Bravery Bonus that way, I've actually never tested to confirm. You also don't get your PDK starter gear until you take lvl 15; but since it's all ML:15 anyway, that's not really an issue.

In any case, if you're looking for a build with no twink-gear requirements which you can run using just the PDK starter gear, pally Vanguard would be my choice: pal 14 / ftr 1 to start. The longsword isn't ideal, but it can be easily replaced with a b.sword, khopesh, or what-have-you as soon as you acquire one.

Caprice
03-06-2015, 10:04 AM
Paladin Vanguard is probably ideal for the default gear that comes with the PDK. If you're willing to try something a little different, I can recommend this PDK Swashbuckler build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/419453-Help-me-craft-an-Iconic-Challenge-Farmer?p=5429773&viewfull=1#post5429773). or you can adapt the Avalanche (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/456462-Avalanche-a-take-on-the-Icebreaker-and-fastest-base-move-speed-in-all-of-DDO)/Icebreaker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446859-The-Icebreaker-A-Freezing-Warchanter-Bard) concept. For favor farming any of them will do just fine, but I like the added runspeed from the Bard and Barbarian levels over the Vanguard. The main issue is gear: the default armor doesn't work for the latter pair, and none of the armor, shield, or weapon works for the Swashbuckler. Run a few Korthos quests and pick up trash items there, and you can use those to clear the house easily.

elcagador
03-06-2015, 01:39 PM
I'm wanting to make a 32-point Purple Dragon Knight to solo F2P Favor Quests up to level 15, possibly further if the character levels enough during the lower level stuff.

Aside from default F2P stuff I have the Standard Digital editions of the Expansions. I plan on making one on each server. All but 3 of them will be "1 per server" characters as far as the bonus items from the expansions go.

NOTE: Multiclassing is available but Level 1 is stuck as Fighter.

For low-mid levels: Barbarian or swashbuckler, for epics Paladin.

I have played with first life Pdk builds and of course Paladin, Barbarian and Bard (wolf druid too but is not wai) are the most powerful classes to splash with the fighter level of pdk.

I have a Pdk Paladin 18/fighter 2 (Paladin 14/fighter 1 at level 15) and is very good for a first lifer. I went with Bastard sword and shield, strength based with some charisma and constitution, taking two handed fighting feats, shield feats, Ic slashing, power attack, etc; Using Kotc tree mainly for cleaves, light dmg, energy drain immunity and heal amp, with some sacred defender for swift defense, +25prr/mrr,+6 str, +20% hitpoints, and even some vanguard for +5% attack speed and stunning shield, kensai for haste boost. This toon gets more powerful from level 14, where you get holy sword spell, and then zeal spell. Epic destinies Divine crusader, legendary dreadnought and Sentinel, cheap twists: Legendary shield mastery, cocoon, hail of blows or brace of impact or if have more fate points sense of weakness or grim precision.

But if you want to play on lower levels and mainly heroic levels, I recommend a THf Barbarian 14/Fighter 1 (Barbarian 18/fighter 2 at level 20), probably the most powerful meele at low levels. With power attack, cleave, great cleave, and supreme cleave, THF feats, Ic slash, heavy armor, Ravager tree for blood strength an frenzied berserker for death frenzy, kensai for haste boost, occult slayer for ear smash/knockout. Can use Cure srius wounds pots until you get blood str from ravager to keep healed.

The third Option is a swashbuckler 12 bard/6 Fighter/2 rogue, Single weapon fighter with light weapon and buckler shield, stalwart stance, shield mastery feats, haste+ displascement+ evasion+dodge but light armor, also very good for low levels.

RionOfErb
03-11-2015, 03:49 PM
An Acrobat, Henshin Mystic, Eldritch Knight 32pt

Just seems like there is a lot of synergy here, but trying to figured out the best muti-class build makes my head hurt, so hoping someone smarter than me has thought this thru some... Was thinking of something like a Halfling 3 acrobat, 6 Henshin Mystic, and 11 Eldritch Knight. Str 8, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 8. (I have +2 tomes) Not really looking to solo epics or anything, just a fun efficient build.

Thanks in advance to any replies.

unbongwah
03-11-2015, 06:50 PM
I can tell you from past experience that EK is a pretty weak DPS PrE, unfortunately. So if you go heavy on the wiz lvls, it ought to be for the spells, not for EK enhs, IMHO.

Do have Harper & Warforged? If so, you could do something like INT-based rog 2 / monk 6 / wiz 12: 11 APs into Acrobat (Quick Strike + Acrobatics), 32 APs into Henshin for Staff Spec, 11 APs into Ninja for Shadow Form, 13 APs into EK for +3% doublestrike, EK Cleave, Imp Mage Armor & Shield, and Arcane Barrier, 12 APs into Harper for Know the Angles & Strategic Combat.

RionOfErb
03-12-2015, 01:28 AM
I can tell you from past experience that EK is a pretty weak DPS PrE, unfortunately. So if you go heavy on the wiz lvls, it ought to be for the spells, not for EK enhs, IMHO.

Do have Harper & Warforged? If so, you could do something like INT-based rog 2 / monk 6 / wiz 12: 11 APs into Acrobat (Quick Strike + Acrobatics), 32 APs into Henshin for Staff Spec, 11 APs into Ninja for Shadow Form, 13 APs into EK for +3% doublestrike, EK Cleave, Imp Mage Armor & Shield, and Arcane Barrier, 12 APs into Harper for Know the Angles & Strategic Combat.

Thanks for the input. Yeah I basically want the wiz for buffs, not offense. Just thought the EK would allow for the buffs and some melee enh. Maybe my split is all wrong. I do not have Harper but could get. I really don't want to play a robot though....

unbongwah
03-12-2015, 11:58 AM
Well, you could try the fleshie / Pale Master route, but that spreads your APs too thin, IMHO: 11 APs Acro, 32 APs Henshin, 21 APs PM (wraith form), leaving only 16 APs for your other PrEs. Although with wraith form, you don't need Ninja Shadow Form anymore, so I guess it's more of a wash. Alternatively if you want to stick with halfling you could take the healing DMs; combined with Fists of Light and ED healing abilities, it might be sufficient.

Deceeve
03-13-2015, 10:50 AM
Thank you in advance for any help.

Returning after several years away. Never great at building a character, but with all the changes since I left I am even more lost.

I was looking through the inventories of the characters I left on the server and I have a ton of good dwarven axes, up until the mid teens anyway.

So, I am looking for:

-Soloability. I don't know anyone so will solo most of the time. I have a ton of cure serious/crit wands I want to use. What classes can use those with no UMD?
- Full rog skills. I don't like to pass up anything...
- Dwarf of course.
- I have 32 pt builds

Thanks again, look forward to returning.

Caprice
03-13-2015, 01:14 PM
IIRC, Cure Wand use without UMD by class should be:

Any Cure Wand (Light, Moderate, Serious, Critical): Bard, Cleric, Favored Soul
Light, Moderate, or Serious: Paladin, Ranger
Light or Moderate: Druid
None: Everything else

A single class level is all that is needed to unlock all the appropriate cure wands, but your total character level still has to meet the minimum level requirement on the Wand. OTOH since you are taking Rogue levels you could work in enough UMD for wands on some other class, given enough skillpoints. Keep in mind that swapping to a wand to heal yourself in the middle of combat is never ideal, so generally it is nice to have some sort of more convenient in-combat healing ability to use in emergencies. In epic levels with Epic Destinies you can "twist" in self-healing on any class, but you have to get there first.

Bard, Paladin, and Barbarian are the current Uberclasses. Unfortunately your setup may be aiming outside any of the sweet spots. Any melee with 15+ levels of Paladin is superpowered right now (due to Holy Sword and Zeal spells alongside Heavy Armor and Defensive Stance), but skillpoints for trapskills are tough with that much Paladin (and even moreso for a Dwarf). OTOH a Paladin in Heavy Armor can basically run through just about any trap and not care about being hit, between the PRR/MRR and good saves. Barbarian is a little better off on skillpoints but you cannot find or disarm traps while Raged, so you have to dismiss Rage repeatedly or run around unRaged a lot to deal with traps and IMO that's annoying at best. I haven't played one after their recent revamp, but IIUC a well built Barb also gets to ignores traps these days. Bard has lots of skillpoints to fit in trapping and lots of utility and CC, but its most powerful DPS setup is using the newer Swashbuckling stance and that is not compatible with Dwarven Axes.

Do you have any tomes? And are you set on using those Dwarven Axes?

unbongwah
03-13-2015, 03:03 PM
-Soloability. I don't know anyone so will solo most of the time. I have a ton of cure serious/crit wands I want to use. What classes can use those with no UMD?
- Full rog skills. I don't like to pass up anything...
- Dwarf of course.
- I have 32 pt builds
If not for the rog skill requirement, my first thought was S&B pure paladin; see my Sacred Vanguards thread. You can MC a Vanguard, ofc, but without the higher-level PrE enhancements your DPS takes a noticeable hit.

You could do a dwarf version of the classic Tempest trapmonkey (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players). Rgr DPS has fallen behind the curve, unfortunately, but it's still a versatile, fun combo, IMHO.

You could also try a rog-splashed barb build (either SWF or TWF). Barbs actually get a lot of free healing from their lvl 12 T5 abilities; the only downside is you have to make it to lvl 12 first to unlock them. But soloing w/a cleric hire until then is still a viable option. Barb 18 / rog 1 / cleric or FvS 1 is an option; the divine splash gets you Div Might & access to divine wands, inc. CCW.

panshiko
03-17-2015, 05:02 AM
Thanks for your time. I am returning after a few years away and would like to get feedback and updates a build I enjoyed in the past.

Elf, 2 Mnk, 15 Fvs, 34 points to spend. Wiz past life. Healer, spellcaster, uses unarmed weapons.

Tinco
03-17-2015, 05:50 AM
Thanks for your time. I am returning after a few years away and would like to get feedback and updates a build I enjoyed in the past.

Elf, 2 Mnk, 15 Fvs, 34 points to spend. Wiz past life. Healer, spellcaster, uses unarmed weapons.

Monk splashes are not en vogue at this time. With the way armor works now, it's usually more convenient using heavier types and relying on the protection of PRR/MRR. For a defensively savy allround Caster Soul I'd recommend a three or four level splash of Paladin (depending how you weight wings vs. improved defensive stance) in Heavy armor.

Monk should still work, but it's harder go get a working defense going, evasion is simply not as mandatory as in past times. If you are willing to splash beyond wings, there are for example Shiradi Missle builds out there using some wizard multiclassing. The FVS-Forums have some nice builds on their front page.

One particular thing: The old style of 'mass heal on x' is not important anymore. Being a healer nowadays is much more about spot healing, light group healing or single tank healing if at all. Most builds are self-sufficient and you really should build towards your own offenses first before sacrificing potential only for healing purposes. The healing baseline of 12+ clr/fvs levels is usually enough.

unbongwah
03-17-2015, 12:57 PM
Thanks for your time. I am returning after a few years away and would like to get feedback and updates a build I enjoyed in the past.

Elf, 2 Mnk, 15 Fvs, 34 points to spend. Wiz past life. Healer, spellcaster, uses unarmed weapons.
Is your goal to reach 20 and TR again; or are you looking for something epic-viable? If it's the former, then you might as well just keep doing whatever you've been doing; the only change I can think of which might impact your leveling is you can now take the higher-level monk stances (i.e., Adept / Master / GM of Forms) as regular feats.

panshiko
03-17-2015, 10:08 PM
Monk splashes are not en vogue at this time. With the way armor works now, it's usually more convenient using heavier types and relying on the protection of PRR/MRR. For a defensively savy allround Caster Soul I'd recommend a three or four level splash of Paladin (depending how you weight wings vs. improved defensive stance) in Heavy armor.

Monk should still work, but it's harder go get a working defense going, evasion is simply not as mandatory as in past times. If you are willing to splash beyond wings, there are for example Shiradi Missle builds out there using some wizard multiclassing. The FVS-Forums have some nice builds on their front page.

One particular thing: The old style of 'mass heal on x' is not important anymore. Being a healer nowadays is much more about spot healing, light group healing or single tank healing if at all. Most builds are self-sufficient and you really should build towards your own offenses first before sacrificing potential only for healing purposes. The healing baseline of 12+ clr/fvs levels is usually enough.


Is your goal to reach 20 and TR again; or are you looking for something epic-viable? If it's the former, then you might as well just keep doing whatever you've been doing; the only change I can think of which might impact your leveling is you can now take the higher-level monk stances (i.e., Adept / Master / GM of Forms) as regular feats.

I enjoyed playing a nimble healer type who didn't have to deal with heavy armor. I have not done epic before so I would like to experience that but I'm afraid my build is not in vogue and won't work?

Pchaness
03-18-2015, 09:36 AM
Hey there! I am quite new. Been trying builds with Iconics (SDK / ML / PDK) but I've never liked anyone of them. Can anyone give me a build that i can enjoy, which includes being melee (I hate clickies), wears Heavy Armor and can see / open locks (need more loot because I am new). I am F2P so no paid content. Only got the Iconics from the Shadowfall expansion. Thanks!

unbongwah
03-18-2015, 03:46 PM
I enjoyed playing a nimble healer type who didn't have to deal with heavy armor. I have not done epic before so I would like to experience that but I'm afraid my build is not in vogue and won't work?
Pajama builds in general have fallen out of vogue since the U23 Armor Up changes tweaked PRR and added MRR (http://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Resistance_Rating); a pure cleric can get a lot of protection just from equipping hvy armor and ignore their Reflex saves entirely.

You can stick with what you've got if you like; certainly having a decent Stunning Fist DC on a WIS-based caster never hurts.

It's actually been a long time since I played a centered caster; most recent thread I can find for a modern clonk is Jotmon's (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/457308-Jotmon-%28Jack-of-Trades-Master-of-None%29-Cleric-17-Rogue2-Monk1-Trapper-Cleric), so maybe start there.

Can anyone give me a build that i can enjoy, which includes being melee (I hate clickies), wears Heavy Armor and can see / open locks (need more loot because I am new).
Sorry, are you saying you want an Iconic build; or you've just been using them to test build ideas?

The first option which springs to mind is PDK or SDK barb 18 / rog 1 / ftr 1: the rog splash adds trap skills, ofc, while the ftr splash adds heavy armor prof and an extra feat. Paladin instead of barb would also work; main advantage of barb is extra skill pts over pally.

eachna_gislin
03-21-2015, 08:41 AM
Build request: Shuricannon Qstaff user.

race: halfling
classes: rogue and monk (any other except druid if needed).

This would be played through on a 2nd life. She has one EPL (3% Doublestrike) right now, I would grind out a second (Colors of the Queen) before TRing if I went for this build.

Leave one feat free for the halfling Dragonmarks. She would need full heroic trap skills.

Why: because my little acrobat doesn't have enough cr@p in her bank!

I have a halfling acrobat with a splash of monk. I've been running with another halfling whose been flinging shuriken and it sure looks fun. After questioning, I determined the shuricannon is more dependant on feats than the acrobat. My Big F'n stick acrobat has both the full cleave line & the full whirlwind attack line of feats, so she's clearly wasting a few. I started to think...what if I played a shuricannon that could use a staff, instead of a staff user who only uses a shuriken to trip levers?

Acrobats are great, but they suck at range (and in outfits are a little squishy up close). There are times when being able to control range would be VERY useful.

unbongwah
03-30-2015, 11:39 AM
Someone PMed me a request for a specific build concept: S&B barb 12 / ftr 6 / FvS 2 using b.swords or d.axes. TBH, I'm not seeing the synergies here: barb Rage and defensive stance cancel each other out, so you have to sacrifice one or the other; and with only 6 ftr lvls, you can only get +5% atk speed from Vanguard core, which pales in comparison to +30% atk speed from GSWF + Skirmisher from Swashie.

But like 90% of the fun of DDO these days for me is coming up with inventive character concepts and finding the least gimp way of building them, so here we go. :D

This is just a proof-of-concept build; I haven't put any thought into optimizing leveling order or skill allocation. But the nice thing about it is it's actually newbie-friendly (well, as flavor builds go), since it requires no tomes and the FvS splash is easily replaced by cleric. APs are pretty tight; I wanted Wall of Steel, Smite Weakness, & Uncanny Balance too, but ran outta pts.



Vanguard Ravager
12/6/2 Barbarian/Fighter/Favored Soul, Epic 1
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Barbarian. . . .6. Fighter . . . .11. Barbarian. . . 16. Barbarian
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Favored Soul. .12. Barbarian. . . 17. Barbarian
3. Barbarian. . . .8. Fighter . . . .13. Barbarian. . . 18. Barbarian
4. Fighter. . . . .9. Fighter . . . .14. Barbarian. . . 19. Barbarian
5. Fighter. . . . 10. Barbarian . . .15. Barbarian. . . 20. Favored Soul


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .16. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .16. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 10. . . .10. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 16. . . .16. . .


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Cleave
.2 Fighter: Shield Mastery
.3. . . . : Exotic Weapon: Dwarven Axe
.4 Fighter: Great Cleave
.6. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
.6 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
.7 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
.9 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
12. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15. . . . : Stunning Blow
18. . . . : Improved Shield Bash
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (3 AP)


Damage Boost

Improved Recovery



Ravager (36 AP)


Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II

Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III, Hardy Rage III
I Like Pain III, Cruel Cut III
Festering Wound III, Strength
I Hit Back! III, Dismember III
Blood Strength, Critical Rage II



Frenzied Berserker (14 AP)


Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy

Extra Rage III, Die Harder I
Angry Arms I, Extra Action Boost III
Supreme Cleave III



Occult Slayer (4 AP)


Weapon Bond

Extend Rage III



Vanguard (15 AP)


To the Fore!

Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield I
Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark



Kensei (4 AP)


Kensei Focus: Axes

Haste Boost III



Warpriest (4 AP)


Smite Foe

Divine Might III

unbongwah
03-30-2015, 12:28 PM
I have a halfling acrobat with a splash of monk. I've been running with another halfling whose been flinging shuriken and it sure looks fun. After questioning, I determined the shuricannon is more dependant on feats than the acrobat. My Big F'n stick acrobat has both the full cleave line & the full whirlwind attack line of feats, so she's clearly wasting a few. I started to think...what if I played a shuricannon that could use a staff, instead of a staff user who only uses a shuriken to trip levers?

Acrobats are great, but they suck at range (and in outfits are a little squishy up close). There are times when being able to control range would be VERY useful.
This may be one of the few instances where it might pay to go DEX-based on a staff build, because it would also boost your extra shuriken proc chance via Shuriken Expertise. Plus depending on how high up the ranged feats you want to climb, you need base DEX 19 for IPS and DEX 21 for Combat Archery (weak on shuriken builds, but after you take Overwhelming Crit, not much else helps your ranged DPS).

Feats become an issue, since if you're trying to max out your melee & ranged DPS, you want a ton of feats for both. Normally I would suggest a pally splash for Div Grace, Div Might, and access to Emp Heal; but in this case ftr may be better. Do you have Harper?

This might be spreading itself too thin, but let's see what we can come up with...


Shuristick
13/6/1 Rogue/Monk/Fighter
Lawful Neutral Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue . . . . .11. Monk . . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Monk . . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Monk . . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Monk . . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Monk . . . . . 19. Fighter
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Monk . . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 12 . . . 12. . . .+5 . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 19 . . . 19. . . .+5 . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14 . . . 14. . . .+5 . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 13 . . . 13. . . .+5 . . .16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 12 . . . 14. . . .+5 . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+5 . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX

Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
.3. . . . : Shuriken Expertise
.3 Monk . : Precision
.6. . . . : Quick Draw
.9. . . . : Point Blank Shot
11 Monk . : Two Handed Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
15. . . . : Precise Shot
15 Monk . : Ten Thousand Stars
16 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
18. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
19 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
20 Rogue. : Opportunist
21 Epic . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack (or Master of Forms)
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (12 AP)


Halfling Luck

Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning I
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Break out the Leeches, Halfling Guile
Greater Dragonmark of Healing



Thief-Acrobat (32 AP)


Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III
Acrobat Staff Training, Shadow Dodge III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Defensive Roll III, No Mercy III
Staff Specialization



Ninja Spy (11 AP)


Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil

Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training
Subtlety I, Fists of Iron



Shintao (1 AP)


Bastion of Purity


Harper Agent (14 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept III



Kensei (10 AP)


Kensei Focus: Martial Arts

Extra Action Boost III, Haste Boost III



Normally I'd go for PA/CL/GC on a staff build, but like I said, feats are at a premium. This build relies on atk speed, doublestrike, sneak atks, and glancing blows to make up for the lack of Cleaves. And the 35% Fortification bypass from Precision+Opportunist will certainly be welcome vs high-Fort targets.

The +5 STR tome is necessary to meet feat pre-reqs for ITHF & GTHF; the other tomes aren't. Rog 13 / ftr 1 vs rog 12 / ftr 2 basically boils down to Opportunist vs an extra ftr feat (e.g., IC:Thrown).

EDIT: TBH I think you would be better off dropping halfling DM and relying on ED healing abilities, since w/out Emp Heal it's of limited use anyway. That would let you rearrange the ranged feats and can squeeze in IC:Thrown at lvl 15. But you specified it as a build requirement, so I included it; maybe it's something to drop when you ER.

JackTekila
04-03-2015, 01:12 AM
Hi. Stopped playing around U11 and I'm returning now. Used to be VIP, so I'm Premium now. I LR'd some of my old characters, thanks to the awesome free Lesser Heart of Wood, so they playable... However, I'm struggling with a Halfling Rogue 7/Monk 1 (with level 9 xp already) that used to be a mechanic. I don't want to make it a mechanic anymore since I already have a ranged artificer, so I decided to make it an acrobat. And that's where my problems begin. After hours and hours of reading (and so many open tabs that I'm already lost) your Shuristick is the closest of what I want, but I'd like it pure melee, so I tried to put it together and ended up with it:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)


Acrobat
Level 28 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 23
Will: 12


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 18 26
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 8 8


Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing




Level 2 (Rogue)




Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack




Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX




Level 5 (Rogue)




Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave




Level 7 (Rogue)




Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX




Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Shadow Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Shadow Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Shadow Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)




Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light




Level 11 (Rogue)




Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons




Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll




Level 14 (Rogue)




Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack




Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX




Level 17 (Monk)




Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision




Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons




Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)




Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack




Level 22 (Epic)




Level 23 (Epic)




Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical




Level 25 (Epic)




Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting




Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms




Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting






I mostly solo, but I'm looking for a guild, so I can party sometimes.

I don't have Harper Agent. Put the harper points at Ninja Spy's Sneak Attack and Acrobat's Sly Flourish, Subtlety and Sweeping Strikes (wondering if sweeping strikes is good in this build... Probably not)

I have every class except for druid, but I kept your fighter splash because of Kensai's cheaper Haste Boost, although I have no idea what to take with the bonus feat (the weapon focus is just a filler).

As a 32 point build, I have to choose between str 15/wis 8 or str 13/wis 12... Went for the second one and dropped the THF chain in favor of the Spring Attack chain.

Used no tomes, but I can take a +2 from the cake djinn. If going for THF I would have to get the str one. If not, I can take the int for skill points or none at all and just save it...

I have no clue about epic, so I copied some random builds (and yours).

Nothing here is carved in stone, as I have the +20 Heart, so I can change everything, but it would be nice to have Monk 3 at 10 or earlier.

(Off topic: which planner do you use? I liked that layout and the one that I use (the rjcyberware one) looks a little outdated - doesn't have harper agent, for example)

Caprice
04-03-2015, 09:57 AM
As of Monday & U25, I believe the Thief-Acrobat Haste Boost also drops to 1 AP per rank. You might still want the Fighter level for the feat & extra Action Boost.

I think Spring Attack is not particularly useful. I would suggest fitting in the THF feats instead of the Dodge line, but if you aren't enamored of investing into STR or are hooked on the Dodge line then maybe try Grandmaster of Forms instead of Spring Attack? Master of Forms is the "required" feat for good performance but Grandmaster is nice if you can fit it in. The only time I would ever take Spring Attack is to go for Whirlwind Attack on an unarmed monk build since the 4[W] attack is coded as 4 separate 1[W] attacks just for handwraps, so procs can trigger up to 4 times, but that doesn't help a staff build and you don't take it anyway.

The alternate/new builder can be found here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455712-Character-Builder-Lite-(in-development)). The one you are using has been going through a major overhaul, which is probably why some of the more recent game changes are not in it.

Enderoc
04-03-2015, 10:18 AM
How about a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 rogue...that tries to get as much SA it can from stunning fist? More strength/wisdom based with points hopefully up to 4th tier harper in melee power while still able to pull off rogue skills.

unbongwah
04-03-2015, 10:56 AM
After hours and hours of reading (and so many open tabs that I'm already lost) your Shuristick is the closest of what I want, but I'd like it pure melee, so I tried to put it together and ended up with it:
The reason I went DEX-based on Shuristick was to max out proc chances from Shuriken Expertise; I also presumed the requester had taken the STR tome necessary to qualify for THF feats. But if you ditch the ranged DPS to go pure melee, there's much less incentive for going DEX-based, especially if you can't take the THF feats; you give up too much melee DPS (glancing blows and +10 Melee Power) with not a lot to show for it. Because of the stat pre-reqs involved, if it comes down to THF feats (STR 17) vs Imp Sneak Atk (DEX 21), then I think the THF chain wins.

Apart from monk 6-based staff builds, also have a look at Zeus (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435435-Zeus-God-of-Thunder-and-Lightning); BF, obv, but it could be adapted to DMed halfling as well. I would use rog 13 / pal 4 / monk 3 split instead of the original 12/6/2, but the core concept still works, IMHO. Downsides of dropping from monk 6 to 3: losing Shadow Veil and two feats. But pal 4 provides defensive stance, Div Might, and access to Emp Heal; you could also use Exalted Cleave instead of taking the Cleave feats, which saves a couple of feats.

unbongwah
04-03-2015, 11:28 AM
Let's take a poke at a first-life halfling variant on Zeus:


Jorasco Staffmaster
13/4/3 Rogue/Paladin/Monk
Lawful Good Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Monk. . . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Paladin
2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Paladin
3. Monk . . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Paladin
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Monk. . . . . .15. Paladin. . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 14 . . . +2. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 16 . . . +5. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14 . . . +2. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . .8 . . . +2. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +2. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 16 . . . +2. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
.3. . . . : Cleave
.3 Monk . : Power Attack
.6. . . . : Adept of Forms
.6 Monk . : Two Handed Fighting
.9. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
10 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
13 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
15. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
20 Rogue. : Opportunist
21 Epic . : Master of Forms
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (12 AP)


Halfling Luck

Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning I
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Break out the Leeches, Halfling Guile
Greater Dragonmark of Healing



Thief-Acrobat (32 AP)


Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III, Sly Flourish III
Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
<none>
Improved Defensive Roll III, No Mercy III
Staff Specialization



Knight of the Chalice (22 AP)


Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven

Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave III
Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite I
Empowered Smite



Sacred Defender (6 AP)


Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense

Item Defense I, Durable Defense III



Henshin Mystic (7 AP)


Riddle of Fire

Henshin Staff Training, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
Fists of Iron



Shintao (1 AP)


Bastion of Purity



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack, Strength
Lay Waste, Critical Damage III
Lightning Mace
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz



I'll probably want to tweak the Acrobat enhs when U25 rolls out next week, but I don't see anything which changes the fundamentals of this build. The +5 DEX tome is for Imp Sneak Atk pre-req; w/out it you can take Epic Reflexes instead at lvl 27. I used a +2 Supreme tome, but the only other stat pre-req is needing +1 STR tome before lvl 9 to take ITHF; otherwise your STR is too low and you'll need to rearrange things. Cleave feat is just to unlock Momentum Swing, as you'll switch to Exalted Cleave once you have it; once you have MS you can swap Cleave for something else (maybe Stunning Blow if you think you can get your DCs high enough).

JackTekila
04-03-2015, 03:33 PM
Liked it a lot! Was thinking about a pure rogue dex build to use the love that rogues will get at U25 that maybe was better than the rogue/monk/fighter. But this Zeus build is perfection. Thanks!

mlhammerdown
04-06-2015, 02:13 PM
Heya builders I'm looking for a S&B sorcerer .. EK... Vanguard I'm completionist +6 tomes 3x past lives, fighter, monk, pally, barbarian, artificer, rogue, ranger 3x all iconic's. id like it to be a end game build casting not preferred other then buffs thinking thf with bastard sword and shield prof any input or current builds would be much appreciated.

Nordenfeldt
04-08-2015, 12:02 PM
I was partying with an archer in Epic Orchard, and he was slaughtering everything, it was like patyying with a lawn mower.

When I asked, he was he was an Int based (Harper) paladin Monkcher.

I have no idea what that build would look like. Obviously 14 pali for Holy sword, but... other than that, help? Why int based?

unbongwah
04-08-2015, 01:08 PM
I have no idea what that build would look like. Obviously 14 pali for Holy sword, but... other than that, help? Why int based?
Race: elf or HE for access to racial AA PrE

Class split: pal 14 (Holy Sword) / monk 6 (10K Stars) - leveling order is up to you, although you should start pally instead of monk b/c BAB is too low @ lvl 1 otherwise. I'll assume PMMMMMM then rest is P.

Feats: PBS (1), Zen Archery (monk 1), Rapid Shot (3), Precision (monk 2), Prec Shot (6), 10K Stars (monk 6), Manyshot (9), IC:Ranged (12), IPS (15), Master of Forms (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24). Last feat is up to you, but I might recommend Emp Heal & Twist Rejuv Cocoon.

Stats: Like most monkchers, WIS should be your primary stat to max out 10K proc chances, but you also need DEX for feat pre-reqs and INT for dmg (Know the Angles + Strategic Combat). Some CON & CHA don't hurt, either, which means STR is your only dump stat. [If you don't have Harper, you can do DEX-based elf w/Grace instead; lower DPS overall but less stat-constrained too.] Ideally you TR a build which has taken a +6 DEX tome to help you hit stat pre-reqs, then you only need DEX 15 to start; otherwise adjust your base stats / leveling order based on what you do have.

Enhancements: 14 APs into racial tree to unlock AA, 32 APs into AA for Slaying Arrow, 12 APs into Harper for Strategic Combat + KtA. [If going DEX-based elf, make that at least 18 APs into elf tree for Grace.] Remaining APs can be spread as you see fit: e.g., 11 APs into Ninja for Shadow Veil and some sneak atks, 11 APs into Shintao for Iron Skin (this is an Earth stance build for crit bonus), 8 APs into Henshin for Contemplation (passive ki regen).

Build example:

Pally Monkcher
14/6 Paladin/Monk
Lawful Good Half-Elf


Level Order

1. Paladin. . . . .6. Monk. . . . . .11. Paladin. . . . 16. Paladin
2. Monk . . . . . .7. Monk. . . . . .12. Paladin. . . . 17. Paladin
3. Monk . . . . . .8. Paladin . . . .13. Paladin. . . . 18. Paladin
4. Monk . . . . . .9. Paladin . . . .14. Paladin. . . . 19. Paladin
5. Monk . . . . . 10. Paladin . . . .15. Paladin. . . . 20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6 . . . 4: WIS
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . 15. . . .+6 . . . 8: WIS
Constitution. . 14 . . . 14. . . .+6 . . .12: WIS
Intelligence. . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6 . . .16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6 . . .20: WIS
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . 10. . . .+6 . . .24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.2 Monk . : Zen Archery
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.3 Monk . : Precision
.4 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Precise Shot
.7 Monk . : Ten Thousand Stars
.9. . . . : Manyshot
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Master of Forms
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Empower Healing Spell
28 Destiny: Elusive Target


Enhancements (80 AP)

Half-Elf (14 AP)


Versatile Nature, Human Wisdom, Human Damage Boost, Human Intelligence

Improved Dilettante: Cleric
Improved Recovery, Improved Dilettante: Cleric
Arcane Archer



Elf-Arcane Archer (34 AP)


Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows

Conjure Arrows, True Strike III, Energy of the Wild III
Force Arrows III
Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows
Arrow of Slaying, Runebow



Harper Agent (13 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles II
Versatile Adept I, Strategic Combat



Henshin Mystic (8 AP)


Riddle of Fire

Negotiator II, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
Contemplation III



Ninja Spy (11 AP)


Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil

Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training
Sneak Attack Training, Agility I




EDIT: I invest in Ninja and Henshin partly for passive ki regen from Contemplation & Stealthy, partly for Shadow Veil. Alternatively, could invest in KotC for light dmg + Ranged Power Boost; or SD for extra LoHs and defensive stance; or more Versatile Adept (Ranged Power) bonuses from Harper.

Nordenfeldt
04-10-2015, 04:01 AM
Race: elf or HE for access to racial AA PrE

Class split: pal 14 (Holy Sword) / monk 6 (10K Stars) - leveling order is up to you, although you should start pally instead of monk b/c BAB is too low @ lvl 1 otherwise.

Well thats pretty much perfect.

One question though, with a low Int and all levels going to Wis, why bother with the Int to damage and Hit of harper?

unbongwah
04-10-2015, 10:52 AM
One question though, with a low Int and all levels going to Wis, why bother with the Int to damage and Hit of harper?
Because Strategic Combat + KtA means you get more DPS from INT than DEX w/Grace, presuming you have identical stats (since they start almost the same).

INT 42 (+16 mod): +16 base dmg (Strategic Combat II) + 8 dmg (KtA) = +24 dmg
DEX 42 (+16 mod): +16 base dmg (elven Grace)

Or put another way: every 4 pts of INT above 10 gets you +3 dmg, whereas every 4 pts of DEX only gets you +2 dmg.

The only tricky part is figuring out your gear, since a lot of named +INT items are aimed at arcane casters, not ranged toons.

EDIT: adding Bow STR would require sacrificing two feat slots (WF:Ranged + Bow Str), which is not practical on this build.

verrucktt
04-20-2015, 11:58 AM
OK, so I have been looking around for a while trying to find a good build for THF Pally. Everyone seems to be pointing to S&B Van. I dont really have any decent Single Hand weapons or shields. I mostly have been playing melee with GA and just recently GS.

My goal: preferably THF with awesome DPS and Surviveability for EE content. Prefer BF at the moment, but I am open. Pefer melee only toon.
I have the following PLs.
Barb x3
Fighter x3
Arti x1
Pally x2 (just starting 3rd)
Iconic PDK x3 and BF x2

Have decent U23 gear with some holes still. (IE: a good docent)
Epic Boots of the Innocent
Epic Emerald Gaze
Epic Belt of Thoughtful Rememberance
Epic Ethereal Bracers
Purple Dragon Gauntlets (HAmp 60 ) - need an upgrade
Consuming Darkness
Guardian's Ring (Level 27) (for sheltering - would replace if/when i get the Shroud of Ardent )
Manual of Stealthy Pilfering (for Good Luck and UMD.)
Green Steel Goggles ( for HP(45)
Cloak of Night (meh - nothing better atm)
Necklace of Mystic Eidolons (DB and Ghostly -INS CON


My Epic Destiny trees are maxed out right now.. Plan to ETR after this life.
I have +6 tomes to all stats.
Could you suggest all destiny points to take and which twists to use please?
Which skills to invest in too? i had been doing UMD with some concentration, jump and balance.
I find that on my last life, cocoon was hitting only for 23, Communion of Scribing hits for 250.
My HPs were around 960 and felt my SP was sufficient in most content so far.

if suggesting a switch to S&B: what S and what B?

Thanks in advance.

Arkadios
04-21-2015, 05:22 AM
OK, so I have been looking around for a while trying to find a good build for THF Pally. Everyone seems to be pointing to S&B Van. I dont really have any decent Single Hand weapons or shields. I mostly have been playing melee with GA and just recently GS.

My goal: preferably THF with awesome DPS and Surviveability for EE content. Prefer BF at the moment, but I am open. Pefer melee only toon.
I have the following PLs.
Barb x3
Fighter x3
Arti x1
Pally x2 (just starting 3rd)
Iconic PDK x3 and BF x2

Have decent U23 gear with some holes still. (IE: a good docent)
Epic Boots of the Innocent
Epic Emerald Gaze
Epic Belt of Thoughtful Rememberance
Epic Ethereal Bracers
Purple Dragon Gauntlets (HAmp 60 ) - need an upgrade
Consuming Darkness
Guardian's Ring (Level 27) (for sheltering - would replace if/when i get the Shroud of Ardent )
Manual of Stealthy Pilfering (for Good Luck and UMD.)
Green Steel Goggles ( for HP(45)
Cloak of Night (meh - nothing better atm)
Necklace of Mystic Eidolons (DB and Ghostly -INS CON


My Epic Destiny trees are maxed out right now.. Plan to ETR after this life.
I have +6 tomes to all stats.
Could you suggest all destiny points to take and which twists to use please?
Which skills to invest in too? i had been doing UMD with some concentration, jump and balance.
I find that on my last life, cocoon was hitting only for 23, Communion of Scribing hits for 250.
My HPs were around 960 and felt my SP was sufficient in most content so far.

if suggesting a switch to S&B: what S and what B?

Thanks in advance.

Bladeforged Paladin
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Bladeforged


Bladeforged Paladin
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Bladeforged


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 18 . . . +6. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . .6 . . . +6. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 16 . . . +6. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 12 . . . +6. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .6 . . . +6. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 16 . . . +6. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . . . . . . . . .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .2. 16
Repair. . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
Balance . 1 .½. ½ .½. ½ . . ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .1½ 11
UMD . . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
Heal. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 . . .5
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .12 .3. 3 .3. 3 .3. 4 .4. 4 .4. 4 .4. 4 .4. 5 .5. 5 .5. 5 .5


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Lord of Blades
.3. . . . : Cleave
.6. . . . : Stunning Blow
.6 Deity. : Bladesworn Transforrmation
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Great Cleave
15. . . . : Quicken Spell
18. . . . : Force of Personality
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Adamantine Body
26 Destiny: Tactician
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Spells

Divine Favor, Lesser Restoration, Cure Light Wounds, Bless
Angelskin, Resist Energy, Remove Paralysis, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Prayer, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness
Holy Sword, Cure Serious Wounds, Zeal, Death Ward

Enhancements (80 AP)

Bladeforged (29 AP)
Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution
Healer's Friend I
Communion of Scribing III, Warforged Tactics III
Communion of Warding III, Improved Power Attack III
Communion of Handling, Weapon Attachment, Power of the Forge

Knight of the Chalice (35 AP)
Slayer of Evil
Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
Divine Might III, Melee Power Boost III
Divine Sacrifice III, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite III, Strength
Censure Demons, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
Censure Outsiders, Vigor of Life

Sacred Defender (16 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands I, Durable Defense III
Bulwark Aura II, Resilient Defense III
Resistance Aura II, Tenacious Defense III


Destiny (24 AP)

Divine Crusader
Endless Turning I, Purge the Wicked, Strength
Consecration II, Strength
Sacred Ground, Strength
No Regret, Crusade, Strength
Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion

Twists of Fate (22 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Haste Boost (Tier 3 Dreadnought)
Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)




Something like this?

unbongwah
04-21-2015, 09:29 AM
If you've already maxed out LD, there's no need to take CL+GC on a KotC build since you can take Exalted / Avenging Cleave instead; and the THF feats add enough DPS to be must-haves on any 2H build, IMHO. And I certainly wouldn't wait until lvl 24 to take Adamantine Body! So on a pure BF THF pally, my recommended feats are: Addy Body, THF x3, Improved Crit (Slash or Blunt), Power Atk and/or Precision, Overwhelming Crit, which leaves 1 heroic and 2 epic feats to tweak things; I like having Quicken just to shorten the casting time on Reconstruct SLA.

Arkadios
04-21-2015, 09:43 AM
I haven't played a two hander for a while, so wasn't sure if 2h feats were better than cleaves nowadays, good to know :P.
And yeah I thought I put addy body down in the heroics somewhere. For enhancements I haven't played a 2h pally before (only S&B) and my view on enhancements is that you can change 'em around any time anyway.

Nordenfeldt
04-22-2015, 06:39 AM
Firstly, thank you for all your help, DDO community, with past requests. I have one more, for something I'm aching to try if I can find the synergy.

A Cha based Fvs/Bard (swashbuckler) with SWF and ameliorating strike. I'm thinking 12 fvs and 8 bard, but I cant seem to get everything together to give me strongmelee dps as well as decent healing and casting. I was thinking drow for Short-sword speciality...

help?

unbongwah
04-22-2015, 10:31 AM
I'm thinking 12 fvs and 8 bard, but I cant seem to get everything together to give me strongmelee dps as well as decent healing and casting.
Consider splashing ftr for the extra feat(s) and possibly defensive stance: i.e., FvS 12 / bard 5-7 / ftr 1-3. Bard 6 gets you access to core enhs (Uncanny Dodge and Song of Heroism being the most desirable, IMHO); bard 7 gets you lvl 3 spells (Haste & Displacement FTW!). Technically you don't need FvS 12 if all you want is the PL feat; but Heal, +2 dmg from deity feat, and perma-Blur from Warpriest core are all nice perks.

Alternatively, consider FvS 12 / bard 6 / rog 2: no extra feats, unfortunately, but you gain trap skills and Evasion; since you're stuck using lt armor as a Swashie, might as well make the most of it.

I also posted a drow CHA-based FvS 17 / bard 3 proof-of-concept build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/452839-Build-help-and-inspiration?p=5490432&viewfull=1#post5490432) a while ago. That was meant as more of a melee-caster hybrid, using either Dashing Scoundrel for +10% doublestrike or Arcane Marauder for orb usage.

verrucktt
04-23-2015, 08:49 AM
If you've already maxed out LD, there's no need to take CL+GC on a KotC build since you can take Exalted / Avenging Cleave instead; and the THF feats add enough DPS to be must-haves on any 2H build, IMHO. And I certainly wouldn't wait until lvl 24 to take Adamantine Body! So on a pure BF THF pally, my recommended feats are: Addy Body, THF x3, Improved Crit (Slash or Blunt), Power Atk and/or Precision, Overwhelming Crit, which leaves 1 heroic and 2 epic feats to tweak things; I like having Quicken just to shorten the casting time on Reconstruct SLA.

Thanks unbongwah and arkadios for replying.. I have set up with a combo of both of your suggestions. Do you guys think this is EE content worthy? Im level 26 now, running some EN Orchard etc.. tried a EE Vol, didnt hold up too well for DPS, heals, etc. I see videos of Pallys soloing EE stuff, but i am obviously not there yet..

samsonov
04-27-2015, 11:48 PM
Hi,

Looking for AA build. It seems that pld/mnk is Fotm now, but I really don't want monk splash for this life. It will be fourth life, with wiz, sor and fvs being the previous ones. Got a bunch of longbow in vault, so want to put those in good use. Was thinking paladin with ranger splash and going for dex to damage and perhaps racial discplacement as well. So if you guys would give me a hint for build or show me the direction to look for build. Thanks in advance.

Valerius_Anthar
04-28-2015, 08:26 AM
Hello there, thanks for making this thread.

I am looking for a first life trap capable repeater build. I have access to warforged, but not arty, but am willing to consider purchasing arti. I don't expect it to be able to solo elites everytime but some survivability would be nice.

unbongwah
04-28-2015, 10:34 AM
Looking for AA build. It seems that pld/mnk is Fotm now, but I really don't want monk splash for this life. It will be fourth life, with wiz, sor and fvs being the previous ones. Got a bunch of longbow in vault, so want to put those in good use. Was thinking paladin with ranger splash and going for dex to damage and perhaps racial discplacement as well. So if you guys would give me a hint for build or show me the direction to look for build. Thanks in advance.
You forgot to mention which past life feat you want next...

I am looking for a first life trap capable repeater build. I have access to warforged, but not arty, but am willing to consider purchasing arti. I don't expect it to be able to solo elites everytime but some survivability would be nice.
The good news is pure or mostly-pure Mechanic builds are pretty strong DPS right now. The bad news is they're still pretty squishy - they didn't get any free self-healing like barbs did - so they can be challenging for a first-life soloer. You may wish to consider a rog / pally hybrid instead, e.g., rog 6 / pal 14: Mechanic bonuses+Holy Sword, high saves, some self-healing from LoHs. In either case, I would consider halfling with Healing DMto provide some self-heals.

samsonov
04-28-2015, 01:41 PM
You forgot to mention which past life feat you want next...

Ahh, so I did ;) Was thinking paladin or ranger. And today when I was going home from work, I thought a very peculiar combo, ranger/monk. Would that be even work? If not then pld or rgr, self-healing is a must, because everybody in our group is self-healers. Don't need trapping skills, I'm a vip, so no race restrictions, prefer elf tho. Was this helpful at all? :)

unbongwah
04-28-2015, 03:09 PM
There's not much point in splashing monk on an AA unless you're going full monkcher; but you said you didn't want to go monkcher, which leaves...hmm, possibly a modified version of my Faithsworn Hunter (see my drow paladin thread), possibly pal 14 / rgr 6 if you want Shadow DM. What tomes etc. do you have?

EDIT: for a rgr PL, maybe an elf variant on Noyellowbar (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430998-Noyellowbar-a-100-monk-free-U19-Build-(15Ranger-4Paladin-1Fighter)).

Valerius_Anthar
04-28-2015, 03:18 PM
You forgot to mention which past life feat you want next...

The good news is pure or mostly-pure Mechanic builds are pretty strong DPS right now. The bad news is they're still pretty squishy - they didn't get any free self-healing like barbs did - so they can be challenging for a first-life soloer. You may wish to consider a rog / pally hybrid instead, e.g., rog 6 / pal 14: Mechanic bonuses+Holy Sword, high saves, some self-healing from LoHs. In either case, I would consider halfling with Healing DMto provide some self-heals.

Ok, thanks. I might roll a rogue/pally then. With regards to the leveling order, is there specific order I should be following, as in grabbing six rogue asap or should I alternate the levels?

samsonov
04-28-2015, 11:52 PM
There's not much point in splashing monk on an AA unless you're going full monkcher; but you said you didn't want to go monkcher, which leaves...hmm, possibly a modified version of my Faithsworn Hunter (see my drow paladin thread), possibly pal 14 / rgr 6 if you want Shadow DM. What tomes etc. do you have?

EDIT: for a rgr PL, maybe an elf variant on Noyellowbar (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430998-Noyellowbar-a-100-monk-free-U19-Build-(15Ranger-4Paladin-1Fighter)).

I've got +4 tomes in all stats and pretty decent items for heroics and epics. I looked at noyellobar, but didn't try to modify it for pure AA yet.

torchen
04-29-2015, 05:50 AM
Let's take a poke at a first-life halfling variant on Zeus:


Jorasco Staffmaster
13/4/3 Rogue/Paladin/Monk
Lawful Good Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Monk. . . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Paladin
2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Paladin
3. Monk . . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Paladin
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Monk. . . . . .15. Paladin. . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 14 . . . +2. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 16 . . . +5. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14 . . . +2. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . .8 . . . +2. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +2. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 16 . . . +2. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
.3. . . . : Cleave
.3 Monk . : Power Attack
.6. . . . : Adept of Forms
.6 Monk . : Two Handed Fighting
.9. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
10 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
13 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
15. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
20 Rogue. : Opportunist
21 Epic . : Master of Forms
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (12 AP)


Halfling Luck

Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning I
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Break out the Leeches, Halfling Guile
Greater Dragonmark of Healing



Thief-Acrobat (32 AP)


Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III, Sly Flourish III
Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
<none>
Improved Defensive Roll III, No Mercy III
Staff Specialization



Knight of the Chalice (22 AP)


Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven

Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave III
Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite I
Empowered Smite



Sacred Defender (6 AP)


Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense

Item Defense I, Durable Defense III



Henshin Mystic (7 AP)


Riddle of Fire

Henshin Staff Training, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
Fists of Iron



Shintao (1 AP)


Bastion of Purity



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack, Strength
Lay Waste, Critical Damage III
Lightning Mace
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz



I'll probably want to tweak the Acrobat enhs when U25 rolls out next week, but I don't see anything which changes the fundamentals of this build. The +5 DEX tome is for Imp Sneak Atk pre-req; w/out it you can take Epic Reflexes instead at lvl 27. I used a +2 Supreme tome, but the only other stat pre-req is needing +1 STR tome before lvl 9 to take ITHF; otherwise your STR is too low and you'll need to rearrange things. Cleave feat is just to unlock Momentum Swing, as you'll switch to Exalted Cleave once you have it; once you have MS you can swap Cleave for something else (maybe Stunning Blow if you think you can get your DCs high enough).

I want to try something like that but only I have 28 point and it will be my second toon

unbongwah
04-29-2015, 09:54 AM
I want to try something like that but only I have 28 point and it will be my second toon
One option is to ditch DEX and give up Imp Sneak Atk; you lose a bit of DPS, AC, and Reflex saves, but nothing too bad. Base stats: something like 15/10/13/8/8/16. You may also wish to tweak the leveling order: e.g., R1,M1,P1-4,R2,M2-3,R3-13. [Or alternate M & R lvls more to spread out skill pts.] This would let you pick up Emp Heal at lvl 6 to boost DM healing; as well as front-load pally enhancements like Div Might & defensive stance.

Caprice
04-29-2015, 10:14 AM
With the changes to Thief-Acrobat, I have a hard time not recommending going Rogue 18+ on a staff build. +20% Doublestrike with staves is a lot of DPS to leave behind. The capstone isn't bad either but not quite as impressive. Taking one Cleric level (or FvS if you have that) would still unlock Empower Healing to buff your Dragonmark healing and give access to Divine Might. Not having the Paladin levels costs some saves and the 25 PRR/MRR from using Defensive Stance, and whatever DPS enhancements you are taking in KotC, but Assassin has been much improved too and I think you will get just as much DPS out of it now (e.g. Melee Power from cores, Assassin's Trick's fort bypass, Killer's stacking Doublestrike, Shiv's in-combat Bluff attack, SAs & Bleeds scaling w/melee power).

unbongwah
04-29-2015, 10:21 AM
I've got +4 tomes in all stats and pretty decent items for heroics and epics. I looked at noyellobar, but didn't try to modify it for pure AA yet.
Taking a stab at my first idea: rgr 6 / pal 14 w/Shadow DM.


Faithsworn Shadowhunter
14/6 Paladin/Ranger
Lawful Good Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger . . . . .6. Ranger. . . . .11. Paladin. . . . 16. Paladin
2. Ranger . . . . .7. Paladin . . . .12. Paladin. . . . 17. Paladin
3. Ranger . . . . .8. Paladin . . . .13. Paladin. . . . 18. Paladin
4. Ranger . . . . .9. Paladin . . . .14. Paladin. . . . 19. Paladin
5. Ranger . . . . 10. Paladin . . . .15. Paladin. . . . 20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+4 . . . 4: STR
Dexterity . . . 17 . . . 17. . . .+4 . . . 8: STR
Constitution. . 12 . . . 13. . . .+4 . . .12: STR
Intelligence. . .8 . . . .8. . . .+4 . . .16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+4 . . .20: STR
Charisma. . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+4 . . .24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: STR

Skills
. . . . . R .R. R .R. R .R. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. 23
Heal. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 15
UMD . . . 2 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 11
Search. . . .2. 1 .3. 1 .2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
Spot. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
Balance . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Swim. . . . . . . . . . .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20 .5. 6 .6. 6 .6. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 3 .3. 3 .3. 3 .3


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.3. . . . : Precision
.5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
.6. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.7 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
12 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
15. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Improved Critical: Piercing
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (12 AP)


Elven Accuracy

Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow



Arcane Archer (36 AP)


Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows

Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III
Dispelling Shot II, Force Arrows III
Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Runebow



Deepwood Stalker (15 AP)


Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot

Stealthy III, Increased Empathy I
Damage Boost III
Aimed Shot



Knight of the Chalice (13 AP)


Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II

Extra Turning III, Extra Smite I
Divine Might III



Sacred Defender (4 AP)


Holy Bastion

Extra Lay On Hands III




Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild


Primal Scream III, Boulder Toss III, Strength
Acute Instincts III
Ward Against Weird III
Sense Weakness III, Overwhelming Force III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury


Twists of Fate (14 fate points)


Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shirardi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shirardi)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

samsonov
04-29-2015, 10:37 AM
Taking a stab at my first idea: rgr 6 / pal 14 w/Shadow DM.


Faithsworn Shadowhunter
14/6 Paladin/Ranger
Lawful Good Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger . . . . .6. Ranger. . . . .11. Paladin. . . . 16. Paladin
2. Ranger . . . . .7. Paladin . . . .12. Paladin. . . . 17. Paladin
3. Ranger . . . . .8. Paladin . . . .13. Paladin. . . . 18. Paladin
4. Ranger . . . . .9. Paladin . . . .14. Paladin. . . . 19. Paladin
5. Ranger . . . . 10. Paladin . . . .15. Paladin. . . . 20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+4 . . . 4: STR
Dexterity . . . 17 . . . 17. . . .+4 . . . 8: STR
Constitution. . 12 . . . 13. . . .+4 . . .12: STR
Intelligence. . .8 . . . .8. . . .+4 . . .16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+4 . . .20: STR
Charisma. . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+4 . . .24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: STR

Skills
. . . . . R .R. R .R. R .R. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P. P .P
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. 23
Heal. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 15
UMD . . . 2 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 11
Search. . . .2. 1 .3. 1 .2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
Spot. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
Balance . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Swim. . . . . . . . . . .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20 .5. 6 .6. 6 .6. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 3 .3. 3 .3. 3 .3


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.3. . . . : Precision
.5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
.6. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.7 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
12 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
15. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Improved Critical: Piercing
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (12 AP)


Elven Accuracy

Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow



Arcane Archer (36 AP)


Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows

Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III
Dispelling Shot II, Force Arrows III
Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Runebow



Deepwood Stalker (15 AP)


Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot

Stealthy III, Increased Empathy I
Damage Boost III
Aimed Shot



Knight of the Chalice (13 AP)


Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II

Extra Turning III, Extra Smite I
Divine Might III



Sacred Defender (4 AP)


Holy Bastion

Extra Lay On Hands III




Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild


Primal Scream III, Boulder Toss III, Strength
Acute Instincts III
Ward Against Weird III
Sense Weakness III, Overwhelming Force III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury


Twists of Fate (14 fate points)


Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shirardi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shirardi)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)




Thanks a lot Unbongwah. I was thinking quite a similar build in work. Looks pretty straightforward build, I'm going to try it.

DjKavlas
04-29-2015, 10:38 AM
Since the mechanic tree pass came, i ve been thinking of rolling a crossbow toon
The problem though is that there are so many choises.
pure rog, 18/2 pal or arti or ftr, 14 pal/6 rog etc.
What do you think? Personally i think a BF 18/2 pal or 18/PDK to start at 15, with little though thought about feats and stats.
But if you have something better to propose lay it on me.
I want to be able to solo most of the EE content that my swashbuckler and shiradi sor can, so... thnx in advance!

unbongwah
04-29-2015, 12:03 PM
Killer's stacking Doublestrike
Killer and Quick Strike are both morale bonuses, so they don't stack. Though if you're able to keep Killer maxed out at all times, it still adds +20% doublestrike while QS is still on CD for 2 secs.

torchen
04-29-2015, 12:10 PM
One option is to ditch DEX and give up Imp Sneak Atk; you lose a bit of DPS, AC, and Reflex saves, but nothing too bad. Base stats: something like 15/10/13/8/8/16. You may also wish to tweak the leveling order: e.g., R1,M1,P1-4,R2,M2-3,R3-13. [Or alternate M & R lvls more to spread out skill pts.] This would let you pick up Emp Heal at lvl 6 to boost DM healing; as well as front-load pally enhancements like Div Might & defensive stance.
it could be with another race without dragonmark??? like a human, dwarf, drow.......i don't like halflings

Caprice
04-29-2015, 12:19 PM
Killer and Quick Strike are both morale bonuses, so they don't stack. Though if you're able to keep Killer maxed out at all times, it still adds +20% doublestrike while QS is still on CD for 2 secs.
By "stacking" I meant that you need to build stacks, which makes it slightly less powerful, not that it stacks with the other sources of Doublestrike. As usual the multiple meanings of terms bites clarity. Killer could be useful to have in case you squeeze in a bit of Ranged DPS, as you do on many of your own builds, and in that case it might be marginally preferable to spend 3 AP on Killer for a more sustained 20% DPS increase rather than 6 AP on Quick Strike for 25% that only works for melee, although a straight staff build will always want the latter anyway.

unbongwah
04-29-2015, 01:10 PM
it could be with another race without dragonmark??? like a human, dwarf, drow.......i don't like halflings
It will work with any race, but as Caprice pointed out, rog 18+ staff builds just got a major buff from the latest patch; Cartwheel Charge now adds +20% doublestrike rather than +5%. So the rog 13 staff builds are now sacrificing DPS for other things, like better saves and extra PRR/MRR from defensive stance.

torchen
04-30-2015, 03:15 AM
It will work with any race, but as Caprice pointed out, rog 18+ staff builds just got a major buff from the latest patch; Cartwheel Charge now adds +20% doublestrike rather than +5%. So the rog 13 staff builds are now sacrificing DPS for other things, like better saves and extra PRR/MRR from defensive stance.
18 rogue it will be so much squishy or not????

unbongwah
04-30-2015, 09:42 AM
18 rogue it will be so much squishy or not????
Pure or mostly-pure rogues have always been glass cannons; the latest update significantly boosted their DPS and slightly improved their defenses (mostly extra Dodge bonuses and some PRR in Acro), but they're still glass cannons.

Caprice
04-30-2015, 11:29 AM
Pure or mostly-pure rogues have always been glass cannons; the latest update significantly boosted their DPS and slightly improved their defenses (mostly extra Dodge bonuses and some PRR in Acro), but they're still glass cannons.
^ This. Turbine clearly decided that Rogues should remain a flimsy class, with DPS potential that is similar to Paladin, Barbarian, and Bard but with inferior survivability (in this case through both lower defenses and bad combat self-healing). Think of Rogue as a class to pick if you want to raise your personal challenge level in the game. If you want an easy time, play one of the "big 3", although they might not meet your goals; Swashbuckler Bard makes a really good trapper but is not compatible with quarterstaves, and Paladin and Barbarian are both superior choices for staff-based DPS (with a Rogue splash for key enhancements) but have more trouble with trapping (Paladin through insufficient skill points; Barbarian because you can't use trapping skills while Raged).

Rogue does have a couple decent defensive cooldowns. One is the Acrobat also get the tier 5 Spinning Staff Wall clickie which grants 50 PRR for 20 seconds out of every 90; this gives you similar physical damage mitigation during its duration to what you would have if you had Heavy Armor on (adding ~25-33% more reduction). Another is that all Rogues get the Improved Uncanny Dodge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Uncanny_Dodge) clickie at level 8 which gives you a temporary big Dodge and Reflex Save boost. Judicious use of your cooldown abilities plus Sweeping Strikes (in content where your DC is sufficient for it to land) should help with your survivability.

On a staff build you will want to consider the Rogue special feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rogue_Special_Ability) called Defensive Roll (http://ddowiki.com/page/Defensive_Roll), along with the Acrobat enhancement Improved Defensive Roll (tier 4). It's unreliable but it gives you your Reflex Save as a % chance to take half damage on any hit when your HP are below a threshold; fully specialized with Improved, that threshold is half your HP total. Unfortunately Rogues are a bit low on the HP side so by the time it kicks in you are probably in serious trouble, but it can save you sometimes. At endgame you should be able to push your Reflex Save above 60 without too much trouble, at which point it may not be reliable but it will trigger a lot.

Try to get a Blur item, as the 20% chance to be missed affects most enemies and helps a lot. Technically you will eventually be able to UMD Displacement scrolls (50% chance to be missed), but the scroll buff doesn't last long (36 seconds maybe?) so that's not something you'll do constantly just because it's so inconvenient. Elves can take their racial Dragonmark feat and develop it into a longer term Displacement clickie ability, but that takes a feat and enhancement investment that may be hard to afford, and it seems like you don't want to use a DM.

That reminds me of another advantage of being Rogue 18 is you get to pick 3 of the class special abilities (they are granted at 10, 13, 16, and 19) so you can get all of Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion (reduces magic damage you take), and Opportunist (increases DPS). A Rogue 12 only gets 1. OTOH 16/3/1 will get 2 picks and Defensive Stance and be a bit less squishy, if you prefer that to the big DPS boost at Rogue 18.

OoDenSRaveN
04-30-2015, 05:46 PM
I have been gone for few years now. The new talent trees have e scratching my head.
I have a champion build Kansai fighter that I was gearing for end game.
Ild like to do some end game.
Currently he is dw min 2 khopesh....that took too long to make lol. I basically just want a consistently high Dps build, can this still be done dw with khopesh?

Thanks for your time.

unbongwah
04-30-2015, 06:27 PM
Currently he is dw min 2 khopesh....that took too long to make lol. I basically just want a consistently high Dps build, can this still be done dw with khopesh?
Khopeshes are still a solid choice for TWF builds, although depending on what you do with your Epic Destinies (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies), not necessarily ideal. The bigger downside is pure ftrs have been overshadowed by barbs and pallies for both DPS & survivability. [In particular, barbs now get enough free self-healing at lvl 12+ that ironically makes them one of the better classes for self-sufficiency, despite Rage (still) blocking spells, SLAs, Heal scrolls, etc.] See my drow paladin thread and Redsonja 3.0 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/458525-Redsonja-3-0-U25-TWF-Pure-Barb) for examples of both.

Fortunately, depending on how long ago you last played, you may have a Heart of Wood +20 in your inventory, so you could use it to LR into a completely different build (depending on your alignment), if you wanted. Or HTR into something new so you could gain a ftr PL feat instead.

Dragnipurake
04-30-2015, 10:49 PM
Here my build request (I am interested in how the real pros choose feats and enhancements):

Cleric 14 / Ranger 6 ( mainly ranged dps, twf for when needed, silver flame -> my private pet guild is dedicated to it, pure flavor build)
human (half-elf would in theory be acceptable, but it would restrict it to AA, and I do not own half-elf)
longbow

It is an attempt to use the deity-based weapon, and to play a ranged char.

TYVM!

unbongwah
05-01-2015, 08:57 AM
Need more details: is this a first-life or TR build; do you have any tomes; etc.

torchen
05-01-2015, 10:59 AM
^ This. Turbine clearly decided that Rogues should remain a flimsy class, with DPS potential that is similar to Paladin, Barbarian, and Bard but with inferior survivability (in this case through both lower defenses and bad combat self-healing). Think of Rogue as a class to pick if you want to raise your personal challenge level in the game. If you want an easy time, play one of the "big 3", although they might not meet your goals; Swashbuckler Bard makes a really good trapper but is not compatible with quarterstaves, and Paladin and Barbarian are both superior choices for staff-based DPS (with a Rogue splash for key enhancements) but have more trouble with trapping (Paladin through insufficient skill points; Barbarian because you can't use trapping skills while Raged).

Rogue does have a couple decent defensive cooldowns. One is the Acrobat also get the tier 5 Spinning Staff Wall clickie which grants 50 PRR for 20 seconds out of every 90; this gives you similar physical damage mitigation during its duration to what you would have if you had Heavy Armor on (adding ~25-33% more reduction). Another is that all Rogues get the Improved Uncanny Dodge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Uncanny_Dodge) clickie at level 8 which gives you a temporary big Dodge and Reflex Save boost. Judicious use of your cooldown abilities plus Sweeping Strikes (in content where your DC is sufficient for it to land) should help with your survivability.

On a staff build you will want to consider the Rogue special feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rogue_Special_Ability) called Defensive Roll (http://ddowiki.com/page/Defensive_Roll), along with the Acrobat enhancement Improved Defensive Roll (tier 4). It's unreliable but it gives you your Reflex Save as a % chance to take half damage on any hit when your HP are below a threshold; fully specialized with Improved, that threshold is half your HP total. Unfortunately Rogues are a bit low on the HP side so by the time it kicks in you are probably in serious trouble, but it can save you sometimes. At endgame you should be able to push your Reflex Save above 60 without too much trouble, at which point it may not be reliable but it will trigger a lot.

Try to get a Blur item, as the 20% chance to be missed affects most enemies and helps a lot. Technically you will eventually be able to UMD Displacement scrolls (50% chance to be missed), but the scroll buff doesn't last long (36 seconds maybe?) so that's not something you'll do constantly just because it's so inconvenient. Elves can take their racial Dragonmark feat and develop it into a longer term Displacement clickie ability, but that takes a feat and enhancement investment that may be hard to afford, and it seems like you don't want to use a DM.

That reminds me of another advantage of being Rogue 18 is you get to pick 3 of the class special abilities (they are granted at 10, 13, 16, and 19) so you can get all of Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion (reduces magic damage you take), and Opportunist (increases DPS). A Rogue 12 only gets 1. OTOH 16/3/1 will get 2 picks and Defensive Stance and be a bit less squishy, if you prefer that to the big DPS boost at Rogue 18.

thx both guys, u help me so much...
I'll try that pala,rogue,monk build. It seems a funny build to play

Dragnipurake
05-01-2015, 11:09 AM
Here my build request (I am interested in how the real pros choose feats and enhancements):

Cleric 14 / Ranger 6 ( mainly ranged dps, twf for when needed, silver flame -> my private pet guild is dedicated to it, pure flavor build)
human (half-elf would in theory be acceptable, but it would restrict it to AA, and I do not own half-elf)
longbow

28pts build
no tomes planned

A char is either good right from the start or not.

Ranger 6 was intended for Manyshot and ITWF. More or less levels are acceptable as long as the majority of levels remain cleric.

Replacing Cleric with FVS is possible. Though I thought that Cleric has better stat synergies.

I was also considering Zen Archery. But I was not sure if in that case dumping Dex would be viable.

I also do not really care about GTWF and Improved Precise Shot. If they fit in, I will take them. But I would not stretch the build to fit them in at all cost.

unbongwah
05-01-2015, 12:04 PM
Replacing Cleric with FVS is possible. Though I thought that Cleric has better stat synergies.
Not necessarily. FvS gets you more SPs and is CHA-based; picking up Div Might is a no-brainer, so rgr / FvS could dump WIS for more CHA. Downside is losing Radiant Servant; sometimes these builds go for Radiant Aura, although that would lock you out of T5 AA (Arrow of Slaying etc.).

I also do not really care about GTWF and Improved Precise Shot. If they fit in, I will take them. But I would not stretch the build to fit them in at all cost.
If you're going for an archer (or really any ranged toon), then you really want IPS; without it you've got no AoE ranged DPS option. Ideally you also go for Combat Archery for the extra +1[W] modifier.

If you have monk, then monkcher cleric is also an option: better ranged DPS, but you probably have to give up melee feats instead.

OoDenSRaveN
05-02-2015, 02:14 PM
Khopeshes are still a solid choice for TWF builds, although depending on what you do with your Epic Destinies (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies), not necessarily ideal. The bigger downside is pure ftrs have been overshadowed by barbs and pallies for both DPS & survivability. [In particular, barbs now get enough free self-healing at lvl 12+ that ironically makes them one of the better classes for self-sufficiency, despite Rage (still) blocking spells, SLAs, Heal scrolls, etc.] See my drow paladin thread and Redsonja 3.0 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/458525-Redsonja-3-0-U25-TWF-Pure-Barb) for examples of both.

Fortunately, depending on how long ago you last played, you may have a Heart of Wood +20 in your inventory, so you could use it to LR into a completely different build (depending on your alignment), if you wanted. Or HTR into something new so you could gain a ftr PL feat instead.


Thank you for the input! I do have the +20 heart of wood. I also have a stereotypical lvl 14 TR .5 Orc barb, so may have to lean on him for my dps lust : p. I stopped playing for the last 4 years, I feel like I have to relearn from the bottom. Time for some coffee and research. I appreciate the insight!

LongshotBro
05-05-2015, 03:41 AM
Fingers crossed for some help; if there's a thread that can do it, it must be this one!

I've got a multi-TR character that i was experimenting with on the current life. I'd played a pale trapper before, and thought i'd mix it up a little and take 2 artificer levels instead of the 2 rogue levels. I figured i'd still have the trapping skills, and squeeze in some more SP, medium armor, rune arms and repeater proficiency.

However, I find that I'm not having a whole lot of fun so far. It's not terribly ineffective, just not all that much fun to play.

I was talking with a guild mate, and I mentioned that I thought about redoing enhancements in the EK tree instead. This particular fellow is quite a good builder, and he suggested (assuming I keep the 2 artificer levels), that I shoot for 12 wizard and either 6 bard or 6 fighter.

My dilemma: i'm a terrible builder, who rarely does any multiclassing. Managing all those trees and stuff is daunting to me. So i'm here for help.

What there is to work with:

PLs: 3x each of artificer, druid, ranger, sorcerer; 1 wizard; also 1x PDK

Currently level 10 (2 artificer/8 wizard). I'd like to stick with the 2 artificer, and going 12 wizard makes sense to me.

Race is drow. I understand that BF would work best, WF to a lesser extent. I just never liked those races though even if it means a huge drawback.

What i'm looking for is:

What should the remaining 6 levels be?

What feats and enhancements?

Particular gear to shoot for (various level standouts and capped stuff)?

ED thoughts?

I like the idea of EK, and i've got a decent selection of greatswords including Skybreaker that i enjoyed using long ago during a sorcerer EK life.

Thanks to much more skilled and knowledgeable builders for input on a 2/12/6 artificer/wizard/??? melee EK sort of build. Without help, i am hopelessly lost here O.o

LeadHero5
05-10-2015, 04:39 PM
Part of a static group to explore ToEE at level 7 and this is what I have. This is a no trap rogue (we have a trapper) to bring a little healing and the most sneak attack I can get. Also have a few nice qstaffs I want to use. Druid also gives me Ram's might, shillelagh and barkskin. I don't think animal form or pet will be any use. I have level 7 vet status so I can redo this if something better is proposed.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Pole Star
Level 10 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(4 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 3 Druid)
Hit Points: 117
Spell Points: 260
BAB: 8\8\13
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 12
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 10)
Strength 16 17
Dexterity 18 20
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 10)
Balance 8 10
Bluff 0 2
Concentration 1 8
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 3
Heal 1 9
Hide 8 13
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 7 14
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 8 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spellcraft -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 7 7
Tumble 5 6
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shadow Dagger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shadow Dagger (Rank 2)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shadow Dagger (Rank 3)


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)





I'm also interested in what I should do from 11 to 20. Won't have tomes unless lucky. No Monk or Arti, please.

Maelodic
05-11-2015, 03:48 AM
Heyo,

For a very long time, I've been trying to find a build to accomplish something similar to how I played Knights of the Old Republic, and I'll outline how this translates here:
High skills --> Traps/Jump/Diplomacy
Immunity to Crowd Control --> High saves
Control-oriented casting --> Reliable CC - Stunning fist, fascinate, soundburst, and mass hold are all favorites.
Melee or ranged combat after enemies are controlled --> Really, any weapon instead of casting
Self/Party buffs --> The less clicky the better
Huge resource regeneration --> Plenty of SP or Feywild Tap
Self healing --> Self healing

Now this was mostly possible with Bard, which is why I've been sated with Bard but I find the lack of saves to be extremely obnoxious. With harper agent out and kicking, however, it seems more and more possible to make something closer to what I'm trying to accomplish. If bards could splash with pally, well, we'd be golden.

Basically, a trap capable bard with high saves. Or a rogue wizard paladin who manages to get good crowd control DC. Or something else I'm not thinking of.

Any ideas?

unbongwah
05-12-2015, 11:43 AM
This is a no trap rogue (we have a trapper) to bring a little healing and the most sneak attack I can get. Also have a few nice qstaffs I want to use. Druid also gives me Ram's might, shillelagh and barkskin.
TBH, rog 18+ builds have such strong DPS right now, you need a pretty compelling reason to go with, say, a 13/4/3 split instead: whether it's better survivability or extra feats or heroic PL or whatever. Maybe consider rog 19 / druid 1 instead for Least DM + Emp Heal + Ram's Might / Shillelagh?

unbongwah
05-12-2015, 12:17 PM
Someone PMed me about making a dwarven Mechanic with arty & ftr splashes for extra feats, which were needed in order to squeeze in all ranged DPS feats plus Completionist and Insightful Reflexes.

Why dwarf? Because beards rawk. Duh. :cool:



Kundarak Mechanic
18/1/1 Rogue/Fighter/Artificer
True Neutral Dwarf


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue . . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Fighter
2. Artificer. . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . +6. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 18 . . . +6. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . +6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Precise Shot
11 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
14 Rogue. : Opportunist
15. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
16 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Completionist
18 Rogue. : Crippling Strike
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Combat Archery
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (40 AP)


Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder


Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Thunderstone III
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter, Ooze Flask III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader



Assassin (23 AP)


Knife in the Darkness


Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
Killer III



Harper Agent (14 AP)


Agent of Good I


Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept III



Kensei (3 AP)


Kensei Focus: Crossbows


Extra Action Boost I

mlhammerdown
05-12-2015, 10:41 PM
Someone PMed me about making a dwarven Mechanic with arty & ftr splashes for extra feats, which were needed in order to squeeze in all ranged DPS feats plus Completionist and Insightful Reflexes.

Why dwarf? Because beards rawk. Duh. :cool:



Kundarak Mechanic
18/1/1 Rogue/Fighter/Artificer
True Neutral Dwarf


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue . . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Fighter
2. Artificer. . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . +6. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 18 . . . +6. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . +6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Precise Shot
11 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
14 Rogue. : Opportunist
15. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
16 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Completionist
18 Rogue. : Crippling Strike
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Combat Archery
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (40 AP)


Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder


Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Thunderstone III
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter, Ooze Flask III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader



Assassin (23 AP)


Knife in the Darkness


Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
Killer III



Harper Agent (14 AP)


Agent of Good I


Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept III



Kensei (3 AP)


Kensei Focus: Crossbows


Extra Action Boost I




Love it my next life :)

Trollocks
05-13-2015, 05:07 AM
So I've been trying to figure out a build... Looking for these things:

-Rogue / Barb, heavier on the Rogue (with a possible splash of something else if needed)
-TWF, dex focused
-Bluff & Improved Feint
-Halfling for heal DM and SA die
-Focusing in the Assassin and OS trees
-28 pt build

Basically, I'm looking for something that can score SAs without stealthing. I've tried building something in the character planner, but haven't come up with anything I particularly like (just not great with it). Not expecting this to be an uber build or anything.

Anyone mind helping me out, or pointing me in the direction of a build I can base mine off of? Or am I just trying to fit too much in?

unbongwah
05-13-2015, 09:57 AM
-Rogue / Barb, heavier on the Rogue (with a possible splash of something else if needed)
-TWF, dex focused
-Bluff & Improved Feint
-Halfling for heal DM and SA die
-Focusing in the Assassin and OS trees
-28 pt build
Why barb instead of rgr for a DEX-based build? Has more synergies and the extra feats help, esp. if you want CE+Imp Feint (not that it's worth the 2-feat cost, IMHO) and halfling DM. Is OS just for Knockout?

Trollocks
05-13-2015, 03:59 PM
Why barb instead of rgr for a DEX-based build? Has more synergies and the extra feats help, esp. if you want CE+Imp Feint (not that it's worth the 2-feat cost, IMHO) and halfling DM. Is OS just for Knockout?

I don't know why... that's why I came here. :D

So I put this together. Could definitely use critiques.


New Build
13/6/1 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter
Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Ranger. . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Ranger . . . . .7. Ranger. . . . .12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Ranger . . . . .8. Ranger. . . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Ranger. . . . .14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Fighter. . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 12 . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18 . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14 . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 14 . . .16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8 . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX

Skills
. . . . .Rg Rn Rn Rg Fi Rn Rn Rn Rn Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1. 1 .1. . .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .3. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. . .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Bluff . . 4 .1. 1 .1. . . . 1 .1. 1 .3. . .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .1. 23
Jump. . . 4 . . . .2. . .1. . . . . . . . . . 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 23
UMD . . . 4 . . . .3. . . . . . . . .3. 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. .5
Swim. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40 .8. 8 10. 4 .8. 8 .8. 8 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10


Feats

.1. . . . : Combat Expertise
.2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.3. . . . : Improved Feint
.5 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
.6. . . . : Precision
.8 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Power Critical
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
17 Rogue. : Opportunist
18. . . . : Two Weapon Defense
20 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: First Blood


Spells

Longstrider, Merfolk's Blessing

Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (11 AP)
Halfling Luck, Dexterity
Cunning III, Bold III
Halfling Guile
Halfling Guile

Assassin (33 AP)
Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness
Shiv III, Sneak Attack Training
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
Execute, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
Assassinate, Knife Specialization

Deepwood Stalker (36 AP)
Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike
Stealthy III, Increased Empathy II
Empathic Healing II, Damage Boost III
Favored Accuracy III, Thrill of the Hunt III
Favored Damage III, Killer I, Merciful Strike




Decided that I didn't think I could fit in the dragonmark... though I'm vaccilating between dropping TWD and switching the halfling line over to that because having Heal would be nice.

ericsuttle
05-13-2015, 05:49 PM
I have a lvl 14 drow ranger that I want to use the +20 LR on to make a Shiradi. I also have a +2 supreme ability tome for lvl 7.

Thanks!

Gadren
05-14-2015, 03:15 PM
I'm looking for the best melee DPS build for a 1st life bladeforged that won't require using hearts of wood or buying tomes with TP... As of the most current update (so taking into account all the melee power that was added to various feats).

Any suggestions?

unbongwah
05-14-2015, 04:31 PM
I'm looking for the best melee DPS build for a 1st life bladeforged that won't require using hearts of wood or buying tomes with TP
Pretty hard to go wrong with a BF pure pally. Plenty of builds to choose from, here's one of mine (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459898-pure-paladin-build-request?p=5606405).

kendo
05-19-2015, 12:38 PM
Someone PMed me about making a dwarven Mechanic with arty & ftr splashes for extra feats, which were needed in order to squeeze in all ranged DPS feats plus Completionist and Insightful Reflexes.

Why dwarf? Because beards rawk. Duh. :cool:



Kundarak Mechanic
18/1/1 Rogue/Fighter/Artificer
True Neutral Dwarf


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue . . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Fighter
2. Artificer. . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . +6. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 18 . . . +6. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . +6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Precise Shot
11 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
14 Rogue. : Opportunist
15. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
16 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Completionist
18 Rogue. : Crippling Strike
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Combat Archery
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (40 AP)


Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder


Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Thunderstone III
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter, Ooze Flask III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader



Assassin (23 AP)


Knife in the Darkness


Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
Killer III



Harper Agent (14 AP)


Agent of Good I


Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept III



Kensei (3 AP)


Kensei Focus: Crossbows


Extra Action Boost I





have been looking for a starting point for a Mechanic great x-bow build and this looks interesting. I was leaning towards 20 rogue though for the capstone, which looks pretty nice with a great x-bow. I don't have completionist, but would have to figure out a second feat to drop. do you see that being an option, or would it be better to go with the 18/1/1 split. I was also leaning towards halfing, which is the current race for the character I am looking to respec into this as a trial run, but if I like it and decide to TR maybe switch to human to gain back the extra feat? would appreciate any suggestions for some alternate great x-bow builds

unbongwah
05-19-2015, 12:54 PM
I don't have completionist, but would have to figure out a second feat to drop.
Human version w/out Completionist could stay pure and still get all the feats. Rog 18 / arty 2 is also an option: give up capstone and lvl 19 rog feat, gain Runearms for the base imbues and crafting / augment slot(s).

I was also leaning towards halfing, which is the current race for the character I am looking to respec into this as a trial run
One option for halfling is stick with the 18/1/1 split and replace Completionist with Least DM of Healing. Gains some self-healing; the downside is having to shift 12 APs from Assassin or Harper to halfling tree to get Gtr DM.

kendo
05-19-2015, 01:16 PM
Human version w/out Completionist could stay pure and still get all the feats. Rog 18 / arty 2 is also an option: give up capstone and lvl 19 rog feat, gain Runearms for the base imbues and crafting / augment slot(s).

One option for halfling is stick with the 18/1/1 split and replace Completionist with Least DM of Healing. Gains some self-healing; the downside is having to shift 12 APs from Assassin or Harper to halfling tree to get Gtr DM.

thank you for the prompt reply. when I first started this character, I was looking to go with the DM line for some self healing but, like you said, going to be tough to shift 12 aps for that. one other thought I had, as I can get up to +6 tome on dex, how much would it hurt to stay pure on a halfling and drop insightful reflexes? halfling gets +1 to saves over the human and the capstone gives +2 dex for another +1 reflex save over the 18/1/1 or 18/2 split. in the dwarf build you posted, it looks like intel would end up around 10 pts ahead of dex at lvl 28, for a difference of +5 reflex save. if my calculations are correct, depending on gear, the pure halfling would end up with a net loss of 3 in reflex saves at 28. I don't know if that is a serious deficit or would still do reasonably well in higher content.

unbongwah
05-19-2015, 02:52 PM
Well, part of the advantage of taking Insightful Reflexes is you make INT your Reflex, to-hit, and dmg stat all in one; which lets you dump DEX gear entirely (since AC is still not relevant, IMHO), saving your slot(s) for other things.

kendo
05-19-2015, 04:28 PM
Well, part of the advantage of taking Insightful Reflexes is you make INT your Reflex, to-hit, and dmg stat all in one; which lets you dump DEX gear entirely (since AC is still not relevant, IMHO), saving your slot(s) for other things.

will bother you with one more question :)

my rogue is at lvl 22 and I would like to get some play time using the new x-bow enhancements to see if I like it well enough to TR. I have a few LR hearts but none with +class changes so going to be limited initially to a pure rogue. based on your advice and build suggestions, I would need to select 2 of these 3 - insightful reflexes, rapid shot or rapid reload. if I go the INT focus route and use insightful reflexes, which of the other two gives the best return? from what I see, neither is a prereq for anything else I would be taking. according to Wiki, rapid shot speeds up the attack animation and has a minor boost to reload speed while rapid reload only increases reload speed but to a greater extent than rapid shot.

thanks again for all your help and patience with all my beginner level questions.

train71
05-22-2015, 09:45 AM
So I'm a little over half way through my completionist. Might get it finished before the game shuts down, we shall see. Currently I have done Sorceror, Wizard, Barbarian, Bard, Ranger, Fighter, Paladin and Rogue. Still to come are Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Monk and presumably before I get it done, Warlock will be out.

The wrinkle is that I am trying to play each life predominantly as an archer. I know it's not optimal, it's just what I am doing. Each life is generally run with a couple of friends in a stable TR group. However, I am struggling for viable primarily archery builds for Arti and Druid. Cleric isn't so hard, and Monk is obviously easy. I could easily simply run them as 6 Ranger/6 Fighter/8 Whatever, but I've done that already for Barbarian and Paladin, so it's getting samey. So, any ideas for interesting Druid and Artificer builds for archery? Only absolute requirements are that it counts as one of those classes for past life, so any level mix is fine, and that it uses archery as primary attack form from level 3-4 up.

I have access to all races/classes and also Harper Agent tree.

unbongwah
05-22-2015, 12:29 PM
The most effective archer template is still monkcher, IMHO: rgr 6 / monk 6 / <HTR class> 8. If you wanted more lvls in your third class, you can do, e.g., rgr 2 / monk 6 / ??? 12 or rgr 1 / monk 6 / ??? 13. Harper opens the possibility of going INT-to-dmg, in which case you don't need Bow Str, so a ftr splash may work better in some instances.

PentegarnDarras
05-22-2015, 12:43 PM
No Artificer builds?
Or did I miss them??

Caprice
05-22-2015, 05:49 PM
No Artificer builds?
Or did I miss them??
There are probably some if you go looking back. Can you provide more detail about what sort of build you are looking for (ranged or melee) and what build points, races, tomes, etc. you have? However except for quick heroic lives, I am not sure that I would recommend Artificer all that heartily right now. The recent U25 changes to Rogue Mechanic make it much more effective at the repeater & trapping role than mainly Artificer builds, Paladin 14/Rogue 5/+1 is much better at repeater DPS, and while you can make an okay WF/BF melee build there are many other more effective class choices available (esp. Paladin).

Gadren
05-27-2015, 05:02 PM
Has anyone figured out the build with the highest possible +x melee power possible?
As far as I can figure, the best is a level 28 pure barbarian/legendary dreadnought with 42 pts in frenzied Berzerker, 25 pts in Ravager, 13 pts in Harper, three weapon focus feats for +6, +6 combat style bonus, +10 greater rage, +24 epic, +30 from frenzied berserker, +45 from Ravager, +6 from Harper, +18 Legendary Dreadnought, +70 master's blitz, for a total of +215 max melee power with all boosts active (which I believe is possible, though tricky), or +85 without boosts.

Can anyone build for even more?

Nordenfeldt
06-06-2015, 02:16 PM
Race: elf or HE for access to racial AA PrE

Stats: Like most monkchers, WIS should be your primary stat to max out 10K proc chances, but you also need DEX for feat pre-reqs and INT for dmg (Know the Angles + Strategic Combat). Some CON & CHA don't hurt, either, which means STR is your only dump stat. [If you don't have Harper, you can do DEX-based elf w/Grace instead; lower DPS overall but less stat-constrained too.] Ideally you TR a build which has taken a +6 DEX tome to help you hit stat pre-reqs, then you only need DEX 15 to start; otherwise adjust your base stats / leveling order based on what you do have.


OK, I'm confused. I'm building this build, and I am spending all my levelups on Wis just so I can get 10k stars up to a decent level. Except 10k stars seems to be a bit weaker than manyshot 9which I have as well) and they are both on the same timer. So... what?

Why not jettison 10k stars, save ALL those levelups for something useful, like int for hit-and-damage?

unbongwah
06-06-2015, 06:20 PM
Why not jettison 10k stars, save ALL those levelups for something useful, like int for hit-and-damage?
Triggering 10K Stars puts Manyshot on cooldown for 30 secs: same duration as 10K, so effectively it doesn't matter. Triggering Manyshot will also put 10K on CD for 30 secs; if 10K is already on CD, the timer is reset to 30 secs. So there's a 10-sec delay between when MS expires and 10K can be used again. So the combat rotation is something like this:

0-30 secs: use 10K Stars
30-50 secs: use Manyshot
50-60 secs: 10K is still on CD
60-90 secs: use 10K Stars
90-120 secs: 10K is still on CD
Go back to step 1


So every two minutes, you get 20 secs of Manyshot, 60 secs of 10K Stars, and 40 secs of neither. During the downtime, you can pike, melee, regen ki, rebuff, keep plinking away, or whatever.

Gadren
06-06-2015, 07:28 PM
OK, I'm confused. I'm building this build, and I am spending all my levelups on Wis just so I can get 10k stars up to a decent level. Except 10k stars seems to be a bit weaker than manyshot 9which I have as well) and they are both on the same timer. So... what?

Why not jettison 10k stars, save ALL those levelups for something useful, like int for hit-and-damage?

You're confused because you're wrong. You may be thinking of how manyshot used to work years ago?

After using Manyshot, you cannot use it again for 2 minutes. Having recently played an archer ranger up to 20, I will say that means you do not have manyshot available to you for most fights. And when you don't have Manyshot available, longbows SUCK. Manyshot only puts 10k stars on a 30 sec cool down. So while you are waiting too get manyshot back, you can use 10k stars. Hence the appeal of the monkchers.

TMTrainer
06-06-2015, 11:26 PM
Nothing to special here. I've been looking at a couple different builds for my third life and stumbled across Tempest for an interesting choice as a melee who isn't a Rogue or Barbarian. I'm looking at one variant... the one that looks more 'Enhancement Focused' i.e. a Dex Focused dual wielder but am open to anything that sounds better than this idea. I'm not too knowledgeable on Tempest, but it looks interesting and strong enough to give it a try. If possible, I'm interested it both doing damage and being self sufficient enough to solo at least somewhat effectively, however, I don't mind dropping, say, the ability to trap for more damage. (I've been damage starved my first too lives, I would like to actually be able to kill things SOMEWHAT in epics after going pure-Healbot and -CCcaster)

I'm not too knowledgeable on multiclassing, either, so if you decide to multiclass for a build, could you explain to me (at least briefly) exactly why you decided to do it? It's not that I doubt the build, it's more for my understanding and to learn why people multiclass certain ways.

Lives: Clericx1, Bardx1
Tomes: Dex +2, Int +1, Cha +2

I have all races and classes, bar Half-Orc and Bladeforged.

Thanks!

Kazlin
06-11-2015, 02:48 PM
I have a lvl 14 Warforged FvS with his +20 Heart that i would love to change into this build because right now he is currently gimp in his current form. it was a old build i forgot the name of it from 2011. i just recently came back from a long break. Any help would be really apreciated.

Annai5692
06-13-2015, 02:25 PM
Request a build, it says...

I'm wondering if there is a tried and true optimum for Solo play, based on 2 Rogue, 8 Fighter. That's it. Not more than 10 levels. The other 10 would then go into whatever class I currently felt like using for buffs and getting a past life in. Using harper for it is fine, as the fighter levels will need high int anyway.

Help for the lazy? :)

unbongwah
06-13-2015, 03:22 PM
I'm wondering if there is a tried and true optimum for Solo play, based on 2 Rogue, 8 Fighter. That's it. Not more than 10 levels.
Why ftr 8? Just for Gtr Weap Focus and Keen Edge?

Annai5692
06-14-2015, 12:38 AM
Why ftr 8? Just for Gtr Weap Focus and Keen Edge?

Less fighter is fine as is more rogue. I just want the last class to be the one to carry into past life. Hence 10 there would limit fighter to 8. With the added bonus of another feat if needed.

I found the survivability of the fighter nicest so far. Would probably be equal or slightly better on a paladin, but this way there should be 9 feats till level 10?

Edit: Let me put my idea down, might be easier this way.

I was thinking

Drow, Lawful Good, +5 Tome (all) used
Str 15
Dex 10
Con 12
Int 20 (Levels in int)
Wis 8
Cha 10

Rogue (Two-Handed Fighting)
Fighter (Power Attack*)
Fighter (Exotic: Bastard, Cleave*)
Fighter
Fighter (Shield Mastery*)
Fighter (Great Cleave)
Fighter (Improved Two-Handed Fighting*)
Rogue (catch up on Open Lock and UMD)
Fighter (Improved Critical: Slash)
Fighter (Improved Shield Mastery*)

* marks Fighter Bonus Feat. +2 Strength should be active from tomes by the time I get to Improved Two-Handed.

Fighting with Int (and Harper tree).

At that stage Greater Two-Handed Fighting is missing due to BAB. Can be taken at 12 or 15. From there on out, any other class would work. To provide Buffs, nothing fancy planned (Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Favoured Soul and Cleric come to mind first). Survivability should be good in fullplate with shield. Casting will be .. err.. rubbish, but I suppose weaving Extend in and taking armour off works. Blur/Displacement are non-hand-wavey so they should be okay anyway.

The goal is _not_ (and I better underline that) to be effective in Epic levels. The goal is painless leveling, ideally from the beginning. With hirelings (just in case I posted "solo" somewhere and this was misunderstood as dedication on my part :).

unbongwah
06-15-2015, 03:07 PM
My S&B builds generally come in two forms these days: Swashbucklers and pure Vanguards. The good thing about Swashbuckler is most of the crit bonuses are front-loaded in the stance itself, which you get at bard lvl 3; so it's a pretty big, early boost to DPS for not a lot of APs. The downside is you're restricted to light armor & bucklers, so you don't have the defenses of the "classic" S&B builds. Vanguards are tougher, but their DPS is backloaded in the core enhancements; so MCing a VG usually means giving up a lot of DPS.

Also is the rog splash for trap skills? Is it mandatory for your playstyle?

Annai5692
06-16-2015, 07:38 AM
Also is the rog splash for trap skills? Is it mandatory for your playstyle?

Yes for trap skills - which works well with using harper int for fighting, I think. I should probably stick int-for-reflex-saves in there as well (later).

And is it mandatory... hmm. Not neccessary for enjoying it. However, I am rubbish at remembering traps and jumping. Hence rogue skills save frustration and make my life easier. 6 skill points per level will be enough for that.

You'd think of a bard3/fighter8 build instead then?

unbongwah
06-16-2015, 11:47 AM
I think one of the stronger HTR templates these days is bard 3+ for Swashbuckler combined with either a rog splash for trap skills & Evasion (since Swashie restricts you to lt armor anyway) or ftr splash for extra feats, defensive stance, as well as Kensei and (if going S&B) Vanguard bonuses. Beyond that, it depends on how many levels you want in your TR class vs higher-lvl bard / rog or ftr abilities.

Annai5692
06-16-2015, 02:14 PM
I think one of the stronger HTR templates these days is bard 3+ for Swashbuckler combined with either a rog splash for trap skills & Evasion (since Swashie restricts you to lt armor anyway) or ftr splash for extra feats, defensive stance, as well as Kensei and (if going S&B) Vanguard bonuses. Beyond that, it depends on how many levels you want in your TR class vs higher-lvl bard / rog or ftr abilities.

I don't think I've played a bard yet for more than 10 minutes :)

Could you spell out (for newbies) the level progression to 5 (and possibly 10 or so) for both the Bard/Rogue and Bard/Fighter options? I am usually not good at spotting synergies. If there is anything important, would you mind mentioning it expressly?

unbongwah
06-17-2015, 02:00 PM
So here's a sample build which I've considered using as a TR template: bard 5 / ftr 3 / <HPL class> 12, in this case FvS.


Vulkooreer
12/5/3 Favored Soul/Bard/Fighter, Epic 1
True Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Bard 6. Favored Soul 11. Fighter 16. Favored Soul
2. Bard 7. Favored Soul 12. Bard 17. Favored Soul
3. Bard 8. Favored Soul 13. Fighter 18. Favored Soul
4. Fighter 9. Bard 14. Favored Soul 19. Favored Soul
5. Favored Soul 10. Favored Soul 15. Favored Soul 20. Favored Soul


Stats
28pt 30pt 32pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 16 16 16 4: STR
Dexterity 12 12 12 +1 8: STR
Constitution 12 12 14 12: STR
Intelligence 10 12 10 16: STR
Wisdom 8 8 8 20: STR
Charisma 18 18 18


Feats

1 : Single Weapon Fighting
3 : Shield Mastery
4 Fighter: Precision
5 Deity : Follower of: Vulkoor
6 : Empower Healing Spell
7 Deity : Child of: Vulkoor
9 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
10 FavSoul: Energy Resistance: Electricity
11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Piercing
12 : Improved Shield Mastery
14 Deity : Vulkoor's Avatar
15 : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18 : Quicken Spell
18 FavSoul: Energy Resistance: Fire
20 Deity : Beloved of: Vulkoor
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical


Enhancements (80 AP)

Swashbuckler (35 AP)


Confidence, Swashbuckling

On Your Toes I, Blow By Blow: Melee III
Deflect Arrows, Fast Movement, Sword Dance III
Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Resonant Arms III
Low Blow, Battering Barrage II
Thread the Needle, Exploit Weakness, Coup de Grace: Melee



Warchanter (6 AP)


Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training

Poetic Edda II, Enchant Weapon



Warpriest (22 AP)


Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary

Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Inflame III
Inflame: Energy Absorption II
Ameliorating Strike



Kensei (4 AP)


Kensei Focus: Light Blades

Haste Boost III



Stalwart Defender (13 AP)


Toughness, Stalwart Defense

Item Defense I, Resilient Defense III
Durable Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
Tenacious Defense III




Bard 5 provides most of the melee DPS bonuses from Swashbuckler and a bit of Warchanter. Ftr 3 provides two extra feats, defensive stance, and whatever APs you can spare for Kensei and/or Vanguard. FvS is the HTR class; 22 APs in Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike, Enflame, Div Might, and Righteous Weapons (uses short swords); FvS 12 gets you Heal spell and +2 dmg from Beloved of Vulkoor. I only planned it to lvl 21 since it's an HTR-only template.

Statham
06-18-2015, 05:02 AM
I'm new (again) to DDO but not new to MMO's. I've been doing a lot of research on ranger class builds but I have yet to find a viable solo build that suits my style of play (which is mainly sneaking around and engaging enemies covertly). I've started and restarted and restarted again while trying to work it out on my own but I'm getting frustrated because I don't fully understand the finer details of multi-class builds (i.e. soft caps, synergies, etc). The type of build I'm trying to make is as follows:

Ranger/Rogue hybrid (or ranger/rogue/fighter?)
28pt build (no VIP stuff, no tomes, no dragonmarks, no favor)
Human or Elf
DEX-based finesse/evasion (with regard to weapons and armor) (is this viable? or is STR still the king of all attributes?)
TWF (weapon choice depends on race and whether STR-based or DEX-based?)
will use ranged attacks for pulling but not much else
will be for solo play 95% of the time (so I need to have good solo survivability)
can deal with traps/locks in the context of solo play but not concerned with raid-level content

I looked at EllisDee37's Tempest Trapmonkey but the skill choices seem focused on end-game trap duty for raids (is this incorrect?). As a casual solo player, I'm not concerned with being a specialist in a raid setting.

I like the idea of a DEX-based rogue/ranger but, honestly, I don't know how to go about optimizing it or if it's even viable.

Thank you in advance for your assistance and expertise. :)

unbongwah
06-18-2015, 03:30 PM
28pt build (no VIP stuff, no tomes, no dragonmarks, no favor)
FYI, Dragonmarks are open to everybody now. You used to have to run the Hall of the Mark quest (http://ddowiki.com/page/Hall_of_the_mark) once per server on any char to unlock them, but even that modest pre-req got dropped.

DEX-based finesse/evasion (with regard to weapons and armor) (is this viable? or is STR still the king of all attributes?)
In most cases, STR-based is still the best DPS choice. If you have Harper unlocked, INT-based is a viable alternative, thanks to Know the Angles + Strategic Combat. If you were making an Assassin, DEX-based is actually better than INT-based if you're playing one of the DEX races, now that Assassinate DC is based on INT or DEX.

will use ranged attacks for pulling but not much else
Manyshot+Improved Precise Shot is still one of the most potent tools in a rgr's arsenal, so why not make full use of it?

I looked at EllisDee37's Tempest Trapmonkey but the skill choices seem focused on end-game trap duty for raids (is this incorrect?).
What you do with your skill pts on a TT is up to you; if you'd rather invest in, say, Hide & Move Silently instead of Open Lock, that's your call.

I still have a soft spot for DEX builds, even though I realize in most situations going STR-based (or even INT-based w/Harper) is better. Likewise I have a soft spot for rangers, even though I know their DPS has fallen behind and the PrEs badly need a revamp. So here's one example (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454402-15-ranger-3-pally-2-rogue-Tempest-defender?p=5513647&viewfull=1#post5513647) of a DEX-based elf rgr 15 / ftr 4 / rog 1 build I did for someone; it's fairly easy to downgrade to 28-pt F2P by lowering INT and dropping Harper.

Failedlegend
06-18-2015, 03:38 PM
Manyshot+Improved Precise Shot is still one of the most potent tools in a rgr's arsenal, so why not make full use of it?


Probably because he likes being TWF and doesn't want the hassle of hotswapping between bows and his weapons every time manyshot hits cooldown which shouldn't be possible anyways (namely rangers should have to choose their combat style and switching to a melee weapon should put Manyshot on a HUGE cooldown)



In most cases, STR-based is still the best DPS choice.

This is not exactly true, YES Str overall is still the highest obtainable stat and yes you can use Divine might (if you pick up relevant classes) but other stats have other effects so whilst strength deals the most damage going Dex or Int based allows a much higher reflex, dex allowing for a decent AC and Int gives more skill points and makes for some fun abilities if you go Shadowdancer (aka Rogue ED)

Personally I just go with what suits the character best because I actually care about roleplaying but regardless Str is not ALWAYS the best option.



As for his request a couple questions bud, to help me get an idea of what your looking for.

- Rogue & Ranger, why did you choose them?...is their specific abilities your after or do you just like them thematically?
- Do mind having a third class?
- If no, any classes you don't want or don't have access to.
- Do you plan on raiding at all?
- What difficulty do you prefer to play on?

Statham
06-19-2015, 01:34 AM
@unbongwah
Thank you for the insightful advice. I guess I figured an effective DEX build would be easier to achieve for my first character on a F2P account. Most of the builds I've read recommend spreading the points around to achieve minimums for this spell or that skill or whatever and when it's tricky, they just say 'throw a tome at it and you'll meet the requirements'. Such things are not available to a first time player.

Besides, when designing a build for a stealth character, DEX just seems like the correct focus. However, game mechanics don't always agree with logic.

I will carefully study the build you linked. Thank you.

Here's a big question... when it really comes down to surviving in the game, is it just foolish to be DEX based? Does DEX-based DPS cap out and leave you floundering at higher levels? After all, all the style and roleplaying in the world won't help you if you simply cannot produce the numbers needed to survive.

@Failedlegend
I chose ranger because of the free TWF feats and because the class lends itself very well to a stealthy playstyle. I chose rogue because I want trap/lock capabilities and sneak attack (one of my favorite openers to any fight).

I don't mind having a third class provided, of course, it improves the build.

I only have access to the basic F2P classes.

I don't plan on raiding. At least, not on my first character. I work full-time and otherwise have a full schedule so my recreational time is limited.

Do you mean dungeon/quest difficulty? (i.e. normal, hard, elite?) Considering I have not played beyond Korthos yet, I'm not sure I can properly answer this. I have soloed all three difficulties of the starter quests in Korthos but I would be shocked if the difficulties scaled the same beyond the starter area. (The starter areas are ridiculously easy.) If I had to guess, I'd say I would probably play on hard with confidence and attempt elite along the way.

unbongwah
06-19-2015, 10:56 AM
Here's a big question... when it really comes down to surviving in the game, is it just foolish to be DEX based? Does DEX-based DPS cap out and leave you floundering at higher levels?
The good news is DEX builds are more viable than they used to be. Elves (but not drow) can take the Elven Grace enhancement, which provides DEX-to-dmg with their racial weapons; while halflings can pick up DEX-to-dmg for throwing weapons. Tempests, Assassins, Ninjas, and Swashbucklers all have access to DEX-to-dmg options as well (albeit to specific weapon types and/or combat styles). One of the best ranged DPS options these days is actually DEX-based monks using shurikens.

But the downside is there are still more bonuses to STR than DEX: e.g., Divine Might, Ram's Might, Rage effects, Strong Defense, etc. There's so many STR-specific bonuses in DDO, you practically have to go out of your way to avoid all of them. [E.g., pure rgrs can get +2 STR from Ram's Might and +2 STR from Rage potions early on; in epics they can replace Rage with Primal Scream for +7 STR total.] The only DEX-specific bonus is Shadow Dodge from the Acrobat PrE; and that caps out at +3 DEX.

There are other benefits to going DEX-based, such as higher AC, Reflex saves, and DEX skills. But when it comes to DPS, apart from a few edge cases, STR-based is usually superior to DEX-based. That said, I think the bigger issue for your proposed build is that ranger melee DPS lags behind the recently buffed classes; the STR vs DEX question is less important, IMHO.

Statham
06-19-2015, 08:15 PM
That said, I think the bigger issue for your proposed build is that ranger melee DPS lags behind the recently buffed classes; the STR vs DEX question is less important, IMHO.

Well, that's interesting indeed. What is it about ranger melee DPS that makes it inferior? Weak enhancements? Weak spells? Also, are you talking across the board or end-game? I was under the impression that tempest builds were fairly strong. Not so?

'Bigger picture' question... assuming I want to stick with my preferred playstyle of being sneaky and dual wielding and managing traps and such during solo play, is there a better class combo? I mean, honestly, you could tell me "TWF fighter/rogue will out-perform TWF ranger/rogue any day of the week and your raw brutishness will more than make up for your lack of small healing spells" and I would totally buy it.

Of course, context is king. I'm not aiming to build a DPS character for raids so DPS isn't necessarily my first priority. My goal is successful solo play which means being as self-sufficient as possible and being able to handle whatever crosses my path.

Sorry, I know I'm over-thinking this but I actually really enjoy these kinds of discussions. Plus, I'm learning. :)

unbongwah
06-20-2015, 01:32 PM
What is it about ranger melee DPS that makes it inferior?
Mostly it's a lack of crit bonuses: e.g., paladins get Holy Sword, which adds +1 crit range & multiplier to any equipped weapon (e.g., khopesh crit profile goes from 19-20/x3 to 18-20/x4 after HS); rogues get Knife Specialization & Lethality, which also turn daggers & kukris into 18-20/x4 weapons. :eek: The best part of Tempest PrE (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tempest_enhancements) is Growing Storm + Dance of Death, IMHO, but that's not quite enough to make up the difference. Which is why I think one of the strongest Tempest builds is actually rgr 5-6 / pal 14-15, which allows you to harvest the best of both classes: see the Faithsworn Hunter in my drow paladin thread. That's not really the stealthy trapmonkey build you're after, though.

'Bigger picture' question... assuming I want to stick with my preferred playstyle of being sneaky and dual wielding and managing traps and such during solo play, is there a better class combo?
Rog 18+ Assassins got a big boost to melee DPS in the latest update; but pure rogues are still pretty squishy and lack self-healing (unless you play a Dragonmarked halfling), so they're challenging to solo particularly if you're a newbie. Though for some players, the added difficulty is a feature, not a bug. :cool:

I mean, honestly, you could tell me "TWF fighter/rogue will out-perform TWF ranger/rogue any day of the week and your raw brutishness will more than make up for your lack of small healing spells" and I would totally buy it.
Actually, ftrs need buffing as much as rgrs do. Starting with U22, Turbine has buffed the other melee classes / PrEs (bards, pallies, barbs, rogs) so much that the unbuffed classes like rgr, ftr, and monk have fallen behind and are waiting their turn for an upgrade.

I'm not aiming to build a DPS character for raids so DPS isn't necessarily my first priority. My goal is successful solo play which means being as self-sufficient as possible and being able to handle whatever crosses my path.
Sure, but if you think about it, high-DPS toons tend to have an easier time soloing: the faster you kill mobs, the less time they have to kill you. ;)

Now, all that said, there's still plenty of room to get creative with builds, particularly if you're not obsessed with minmaxing your DPS by chasing after the latest Flavor of the Month. Here's a revamped version of an old build concept: DEX-based halfling rgr 15 / rog 5 (Tempest / Assassin).


Jorasco Commando
15/5 Ranger/Rogue
True Neutral Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue 6. Ranger 11. Ranger 16. Ranger
2. Ranger 7. Rogue 12. Ranger 17. Ranger
3. Ranger 8. Ranger 13. Rogue 18. Ranger
4. Rogue 9. Ranger 14. Ranger 19. Ranger
5. Ranger 10. Rogue 15. Ranger 20. Ranger


Stats
28pt Level Up
---- --------
Strength 8 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 8: DEX
Constitution 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 12 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 20: DEX
Charisma 8 24: DEX
28: DEX

Skills
Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Search 4 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 3 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 23
UMD 4 3 3 3 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Concent 4 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 22
Disable 4 3 3 3 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 22
Open Lo 4 3 3 3 3 16
Hide 4 2 2 2 2 12
Move Si 4 2 2 2 2 12
Balance 4 4
Jump 4 4
Heal 1 1 2
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
36 7 7 9 7 7 9 7 7 9 7 7 9 7 7 7 7 7 7 7


Feats

1 : Least Dragonmark: Healing
2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
3 : Weapon Finesse (swap for Quick Draw later)
6 : Precision
8 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
9 : Improved Critical: Piercing
12 : Empower Healing Spell
15 : Point Blank Shot
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
18 : Improved Critical: Thrown
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elf
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Reflexes
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (12 AP)


Halfling Luck

Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning I
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Break out the Leeches, Halfling Guile
Greater Dragonmark of Healing



Assassin (38 AP)


Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back

Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Shiv III, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Venomed Blades II, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Sneak Attack Training
Execute, Killer III, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training
Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes, Knife Specialization



Tempest (24 AP)


Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows

Improved Defense I, Whirling Blades
Bleed Them Out III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
Whirling Blades
The Growing Storm III



Deepwood Stalker (6 AP)


Far Shot, Sneak Attack

Stealthy III, Tendon Cut I




Halfling provides Dragonmarks for extra healing and Guile for extra sneak atk. Rgr 15 provides 4 Favored Enemies and two lvl 4 spell slots (FoM & CSW).;while Tempest provides +20% offhand, Growing Storm, and a few other DPS bonuses. Assassin provides more DPS bonuses: extra SAs, Killer, Venomed Blades, and Knife Specialization for the crit bonuses. [Assassinate is used for the +10d6 SA, not the instakill; with so few rog lvls, your DC will be too low to be viable. Likewise Poison Strikes is used just to apply Assassin's Mark for Weakening+Deadly Strikes.] DWS provides more SA, increased PBS range, and some Pos Spellpower; if I had 5 more APs to spare, I'd also take Exposing Strike. She uses throwing daggers instead of bows because Dagger in the Back and Knife Spec applies to them as well as regular daggers; also throwing weapons benefit more from Doubleshot bonuses like Killer and ED feat. Total SA is 3d6 (rog lvls) + 4d6 (Assassin) + 1d6 (Guile) + 3d6 (DWS) = 11d6 SA.

Because of how I've staggered out the rog & rgr lvls, Weapon Finesse is necessary early on in order to take Imp Weap Finesse from DWS to get DEX-to-dmg. Once you have Dagger in the Back or Graceful Death, you can swap it for Quick Draw. [My recommendation is to do the feat swap (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fred) NLT lvl 8, b/c the cost in Siberys Shards goes up 10x after that.]

My first draft of this build tried to take Bluff as well, but that stretched my skill pts too thin. But you could trade DEX for INT to get more skill pts.

Statham
06-21-2015, 04:57 PM
I really like the look of this Jorasco Commando build. I do have some questions, though...

First, does this build exclusively use dual kukris for melee and throwing daggers for ranged? If so, then...



Because of how I've staggered out the rog & rgr lvls, Weapon Finesse is necessary early on in order to take Imp Weap Finesse from DWS to get DEX-to-dmg. Once you have Dagger in the Back or Graceful Death, you can swap it for Quick Draw.

... wouldn't Improved Weapon Finesse be redundant? Aren't your DEX-to-hit and DEX-to-damage already covered via Knife in the Darkness and Dagger in the Back, respectively?

Second, is Lethality not worth taking?

(Forgive me if I'm wrong about any or all of this. I'm going by info that I'm seeing in the DDOwiki.)

As I'm studying this build, it looks as if no other weapon choice (i.e. rapiers) would work because you would lose bonuses and multipliers if you used anything other than daggers or kukris. Is this correct?

Since I'm aiming to play an Elf or Human, I would ideally want to modify this build for either of those races. Human looks really straight forward; just swap out the racial AP. Elf poses a much larger question, however. If you went with Elf, would it be possible to do this build for dual rapiers so that you could take full advantage of Elven Weapon Training? I tried to parse this out on my own and it gets pretty complicated for someone of my limited DDO experience. Weapon Finesse along with Dagger in the Back makes rapiers viable for all to-hit and damage bonuses but you lose the crit multiplier benefit of Knife Spec. It takes both Knife Spec and Lethality to get x4 multiplier on kukris but it seems that x3 is the best you can get if you use rapiers (Lethality would apply). However, Elven Weapon Training would increase your to-hit and damage with rapiers above and beyond what is possible with kukris. So, are the increased to-hit and damage of rapiers worth the reduced crit multiplier? (This is where I'm completely in the dark. How important are crit multipliers?)

unbongwah
06-21-2015, 06:32 PM
First, does this build exclusively use dual kukris for melee and throwing daggers for ranged?
It's designed to use melee daggers, hence the ImpCrit:Pierce feat. You can switch to IC:Slash for kukris instead, but there are a lot more named daggers than kukris.

... wouldn't Improved Weapon Finesse be redundant? Aren't your DEX-to-hit and DEX-to-damage already covered via Knife in the Darkness and Dagger in the Back, respectively?
Dagger in the Back isn't acquired until lvl 7 on my build; by taking Finesse at lvl 3, you can also take Imp Weap Finesse from DWS to gain DEX to dmg for lvls 3-6. After you have DitB, you can swap Finesse for Quick Draw, presuming you use just daggers & kukris.

It's just to up your melee DPS for those four levels. Note that if you primarily use a weapon which already provides DEX-to-dmg (e.g., SPD (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sky_Pirate%27s_Dagger), TAB (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tiefling_Assassin%27s_Blade)), you don't need Finesse or DitB.

Second, is Lethality not worth taking?
It certainly is! It is also only available at rog lvl 18, hence my comments about pure rogs getting a big DPS bonus recently. ;)

As I'm studying this build, it looks as if no other weapon choice (i.e. rapiers) would work because you would lose bonuses and multipliers if you used anything other than daggers or kukris. Is this correct?
Once you take Knife Spec, daggers & kukris become the clear winners, yes.

So, are the increased to-hit and damage of rapiers worth the reduced crit multiplier?
Short answer: No.

Long answer: this is a gross oversimplification of the DPS math, but it may help to understand the importance of crit profiles.

Let's presume we're talking about having a 95% hit chance (i.e., you hit on every roll except 1); or that for every 20 swings, you hit 19 times. So you could think of the baseline hit profile as:

01111111111111111112

Where each "1" represents a hit for your average base damage. The "2" represents the crit dmg from using a 20/x2 weapon, which is the weakest option. So 20 swings adds up to 20 times your base dmg.

Now let's suppose we switch to a 19-20/x2 like a dagger. Then it becomes:

01111111111111111122

20 swings now do 21 times your base dmg. Compared to the base 20/x2, this is a 5% increase in DPS: (21 - 20) / 20 = 5%.

So your proposed elf rog / rgr using rapiers: 18-20/x2 base crit profile -> 15-20/x2 w/Improved Crit:Piercing. There are no other crit bonuses available to this particular build, so its dmg profile looks like:

01111111111111222222

Or 25 times base dmg every 20 swings, which is +25% DPS from the baseline: (25 - 20) / 20 = 25%.

My build, OTOH, with daggers is: 19-20/x2 base -> 18-20/x3 Knife Spec -> 15-20/x3 IC:Pierce.

01111111111111333333

Which is 31 times base dmg, or +55% DPS over the baseline and +24% over rapiers: (31 - 25) / 25 = 24%.

As I said, this is an extremely simple example: it doesn't consider crit bonuses like Seeker, which favor weapons with better crit specs; nor do I factor in sneak atks, which would be almost the same. But in practice, the +4 dmg from elf racial bonuses and the +SA dmg from halfling basically even out; so it's the crit bonuses from Knife Spec which give my halfling the edge.

The advantage of going elf instead of halfling would be getting DEX to longbow dmg from Elven Grace, which would open you back up to using Manyshot.

Statham
06-21-2015, 10:24 PM
So your proposed elf rog / rgr using rapiers: 18-20/x2 base crit profile -> 15-20/x2 w/Improved Crit:Piercing. There are no other crit bonuses available to this particular build, so its dmg profile looks like:

01111111111111222222

Or 25 times base dmg every 20 swings, which is +25% DPS from the baseline: (25 - 20) / 20 = 25%.

My build, OTOH, with daggers is: 19-20/x2 base -> 18-20/x3 Knife Spec -> 15-20/x3 IC:Pierce.

01111111111111333333

Which is 31 times base dmg, or +55% DPS over the baseline and +24% over rapiers: (31 - 25) / 25 = 24%.

I totally understand what you're getting at here. Even though over-simplified, it's a great illustration. Applying these crit averages to the appropriate average weapon damage, wouldn't we get:

rapier average base damage is 3.5 + 25% = 4.375

dagger average base damage is 2.5 + 55% = 3.875

Wouldn't rapiers still dish out more hurt despite the lower crits?

Are we having fun yet? :D

unbongwah
06-22-2015, 09:44 AM
rapier average base damage is 3.5 + 25% = 4.375

dagger average base damage is 2.5 + 55% = 3.875

Wouldn't rapiers still dish out more hurt despite the lower crits?
Here's where you need to factor in your total dmg mod, which is when you discover that your base weapon dmg die is actually a fairly small contributor to your DPS. E.g., let's suppose you have a base dmg mod of +20 (+5 weapon + 40 DEX) using standard 1[W] weapons; with the rapier getting an extra +4 from elf enhs. Then it becomes:

Rapier: (20 + 4 + 3.5) * 125% = 34.375
Dagger: (20 + 2.5) * 155% = 34.875

So they're pretty close to start, but daggers pull slightly ahead. Now let's say your base dmg is +30 with 2[W] weapons:

Rapier: (30 + 4 + 2*3.5) * 125% = 51.25
Dagger: (30 + 2*2.5) * 155% = 54.25

You can see daggers pulling even further ahead here. And it keeps going like that; the higher you boost your base dmg mod, the more you benefit from Knife Spec's higher crit dmg. And that's before you factor in Seeker, Burst, etc. dmg effects, which also benefit from the higher crit multiplier.

There's also the question of other build tradeoffs: my build spends 12 APs in the halfling tree; if you switched to elf with Elven Grace, you would need to spend at least 18 APs (probably 19 to get Skill as well for +3% doublestrike). That means you need to take those APs from elsewhere, like Assassin or DWS.

Now if you go elf, all is not lost: you could start with rapiers to benefit from the higher base dmg + elf enhs; then switch to daggers after you take Knife Spec, at which point your base dmg is hopefully high enough to make up the difference.

Statham
06-22-2015, 10:54 AM
See, these are the kinds of delicious details I love learning about. :)

Thank you so much, unbongwah, for helping me wrap my head around this build. I'm going to roll out as a human with this and just swap the racial AP and stick with daggers. I know Halfling is a stronger choice but I just can't play a Halfling. It's a roleplaying thing.

Very excited to get this character underway. :D

martryn
06-26-2015, 04:38 AM
I'd like to request a build if requests are still being filled. My tight-knit group of players are about to true rez for the first time. Since we try to run a "balanced" party, we talk about our roles beforehand, and I've been given the job as divine caster/healer. Looking for ideas, I noticed that the warpriest did not get any love in any builds, and since we're pretty casual, I thought I'd give the warpriest some love. I'd like to see an effective warpriest with the following stipulations:
1. Tier 5 Warpriest Enhancements must be taken.
2. Not gear dependent, airship buff dependent, or tome dependent.
3. One past life as a rogue.
4. Heroic levels only.
5. And, to spice it up, make it a half-elf.

unbongwah
06-26-2015, 09:32 AM
1. Tier 5 Warpriest Enhancements must be taken.
2. Not gear dependent, airship buff dependent, or tome dependent.
3. One past life as a rogue.
4. Heroic levels only.
5. And, to spice it up, make it a half-elf.
First idea which occurs to me: take Axel's THF cleric (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build) and convert it to HE using scimitars with either SWF or TWF instead.

Melee feats: SWF or TWF x3, IC:Slash, Overwhelming Crit, Power Atk or Precision
Metamagics: Quicken, Empower Heal, Maximize, Empower
Enhancements: 30+ in WP, 13+ in RS, 13 in SD, 4 in Kensei, at least 8 in KotC (Exalted Cleave)