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  1. #1

    Default Stratics Chat Transcript

    Hi all...seriously, no one else posted a transcript of the dev chat last night? I figured I'd see a couple copies of it on the boards this morning. I know the Stratics House of Commons folks put it up on their site last night, but since I didn't immediately see it on the boards here, I figured I'd post up my own "raw" transcript of the chat. If this is a repeat, I apologize.

    Jerry

    [18:13] zigzag: Good evening and welcome to another great Stratics House of Commons chat! Tonight we host the Dungeons and Dragon Online team, and we welcome them back after too long an absence from of HoC family. The topic is tonight will center on the recently relased Mod 7, The Way of the Monk.
    [18:15] * zigzag slaps Django around with a large trout
    [18:15] Django: Well, what's that for? Trout... Oh...
    [18:15] Django: Greetings, I'm Django, content designer. My known associates include the pirates of Three Barrel Cove.
    [18:17] Tolero: Good evening! I'm Tolero of the DDO Community Team.
    [18:17] Eladrin: Hi everyone, I'm Eladrin, Lead Game Systems Designer. I've most recently worked on the monk.
    [18:17] Keeper: Greetings! I’m Keeper. I build landscapes and dungeons for DDO. And yes, I am currently eating guacamole.
    [18:17] Piloto: Hi. I'm Piloto. I'm a game systems designer.
    [18:17] Eladrin: Tell them about your exploits, Piloto!
    [18:18] Eldorudo: Hello everyone! I am Eldorudo and I write quests and teach the NPC's to talk like pirates. Arrrr!
    [18:18] Piloto: Many of my exploits involve monsters and crafting.
    [18:19] zigzag: *arkohighstar* now that mod 7 is finished what is the next update, will it be an update or mod 8
    [18:20] Eladrin: There will be an update coming.
    [18:21] zigzag: any word on half orc
    [18:21] Eladrin: Half Orcs are the next race that's currently planned, we expect the first half of '09. The Druid is on our list as the next class.
    [18:22] zigzag: DDOReports_[Ustice]* The Weekly Development Activities (WDA's) were a favorite feature of many players. Where will they now be able to go for more detailed information on updates?
    [18:23] Tolero: Players will notice that there will be more feature articles with the media, as well as more information posted to DDO.com, and the DDO Compendium
    [18:23] Tolero: The Dev tracker is always a great source for the smaller information, and naturally the Release notes will still be available
    [18:24] Tolero: We're also going to be bringing Release notes for Risia, something we had previously not done
    [18:26] zigzag: *arkohighstar* do you have any plans to expand the number of lvl 16 quests with mod 8
    [18:27] Eldorudo: Yes, we do intend to add additional high level dungeons in Module 8. We will keep the details shrouded in secrecy, for now.
    [18:27] zigzag: *Ganav* Question to the devs: What would you say makes D&D raiding so much more satisfying than the WoW raiding experience, and how have you managed to keep the raiding system so simple yet rewarding?
    [18:28] Keeper: . . .it's the guacamole that does it.
    [18:28] Eladrin: The hand crafted experiences combined with that we're able to do extremely different things in each raid are the biggest strengths, I'd say.
    [18:28] Eladrin: And, the guacamole, of course.
    [18:29] zigzag: *Sketchy* Did you know monks would be the AWESOME when you started them, and are Druids next?
    [18:29] Eladrin: FER SHURE
    [18:29] Eladrin: Druids will be the next AWESOME
    [18:30] zigzag: *Fantasma* when is lvl cap increase?
    [18:30] Eladrin: Our goal is to have it by the end of the year.
    [18:31] zigzag: *arkohighstar* any word on prestige enhancememts for fighters like tempest etc.
    [18:32] Eladrin: I will answer all of the questions myself! Prestige enhancements are planned for fighters and paladins. Before that, however, the melee classes (especially fighters) will be glad to see an array of tactical feats made available to them. [18:33] zigzag: *DDOReports_[Ustice]* What role with the Compendium play going forward, post-WDA?
    [18:35] Tolero: Going forward, the Compendium will begin to be filled with more information. Some users may have noticed the migration of the Release notes over to the Compendium already...
    [18:36] Tolero: Be on the look out for more articles and information being added to the Compendium. Also be on the look out for more social tools in the Compendium, as well as some forum favorites finding a new home there.
    [18:36] zigzag: *DDOReports_[Ustice]* Crafting was expanded in Mod 7 but the monk was the star, will this be more of a focus for Mod 8?
    [18:36] Piloto: Implementation of a full crafting system is underway. We don't have a release date yet, but we are working hard on it.
    [18:37] zigzag: *Gforged* There was mention of a Holy Avenger in the works. How will this be implemented? I'm sure pure-class (an mostly pure) Paladins will hate to see their personal weapon in the hands of 2 Rogue/10 Ranger/4 Paladin multi-class character.
    [18:38] Eladrin: A Holy Avenger's a special thing. You can't just hand them out to everyone.
    [18:38] Eladrin: I expect that a certain level of dedication will be required, and perhaps a task or two to prove your worth.
    [18:38] Eladrin: Not the pirate quest.
    [18:39] Django: Oh... I was wondering about that
    [18:40] zigzag: *Ashvirenza* My question is: Question for Piloto and Eladrin: People are bringing up that the monk's DPS does not compare to other classes and it does not attack fast enough to make it a viable stat damager (even if it had a wide choice). What role and what unique feature do you think will set monks apart from other classes and get them spots in groups. Is it solely there extensive utility?
    [18:41] Keeper: Monks make the best guacamole.
    [18:41] Eladrin: We're paying close attention to the debates on the effectiveness of the monk, and will make changes if they prove necessary. The monk is an extremely versatile class and often takes some time to master.
    [18:42] Eladrin: This versatility allows the monk the ability to fill many different roles with a tremendous array of build options, especially when one multi-classes.
    [18:43] Eladrin: I'm sure that the players will surprise me with what they come up with.
    [18:43] zigzag: *Maggie* Question: Now that D&D 4th Edition is out, do you plan on following in their footsteps with changes? (Oh no! No more monk - The irony!)
    [18:44] *** -> -zigzag- Question: (on behalf of Rowanheal): Any more plans to add pink armor styles and monk robes?
    [18:45] Eladrin: We'll be evaluating the changes and seeing which ones are relevant and impactful. We don't plan on doing things such as, say, removing the monk and sorcerer, but there are a lot of great things in fourth edition that I look forward to adapting to our needs over time.
    [18:46] zigzag: *thetruthseeker_AKA_Query* When can we deconstruct items as mentioned in interviews? Is that coming out soon, or going to be released in Mod 8? Does this include raid items/non raid items?
    [18:47] Keeper: A deconstructed avacado is guacamole. . . mmmmmm. . . .
    [18:47] Piloto: The ability to deconstruct items will be released with the full crafting system as deconstructing things will generate raw materials for crafting.
    [18:48] zigzag: *Kistilan* Not sure if you're the guy taking these Q's? Q: What will the goal of the advanced crafting system be as far as item creation? Will it only be epic items, or can we expect to be able to craft magic arrows, wands and scrolls to avoid paying the man's prices?
    [18:50] Piloto: High level powerful items will certainly be one of the material goals of crafting, but characters will also be able to make all sorts of items that can be used by characters of all levels.
    [18:51] Keeper: If I were in charge of crafting, it would be all about crafting guacamole! But alas, I make landscapes, not food.
    [18:51] Piloto: To begin with, the crafting system will focus on the making of equippable items like weapons, shields, armor, and accessories. Magic arrows and potions certainly may come later.
    [18:51] zigzag: *Willphase* Are there plans to make monk wind stance alacrity stack with haste?
    [18:53] Eladrin: Currently wind stance does not stack with haste. It's possible if our evaluations deem wind stance needing a boost that a portion of the haste effect will stack with the haste spell. It's almost certainly not going to fully stack in the way that Tempest does - we've already seen how that played, and would like to see people playing something other than just two weapon fighting dex monks.
    [18:53] zigzag: *DDOcast* Question: (on behalf of Rowanheal): Any more plans to add pink armor styles and monk robes?
    [18:53] Keeper: Woo, pink!
    [18:55] Tolero: For the record, if I pull any pink armor/clothing, it's totally getting given away -_- Though I do have a pink docent on my Warforged. I call her the Watermellon Forged for that reason
    [18:56] Keeper: Hmm. . . I wonder if I could get away with making an all-pink landscape?
    [18:56] Eladrin: Like Gianthold?
    [18:56] Keeper: HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
    [18:56] Piloto: While the popularity of pink armor has been a surprise to many, we will continue to monitor the demand. Once the crafting system goes live, you will be able to dye parts of your armor and monk outfits pink to your heart's content.
    [18:56] Keeper: no, that one was purple overload!
    [18:56] zigzag: *arkohighstar* what is the word on DX10
    [18:56] zigzag: <Tolero> Yes to DDOCast on Pink armor
    [18:57] Keeper:
    [18:57] Tolero: Blasphemy!
    [18:57] Eldorudo: Yes, good question
    [18:58] Eladrin: Our next update will release a beta version of DX10 support. In future updates we plan on increasing the support for it.
    [18:59] zigzag: *DDOReports_[Ustice]* How long did you expect the servers to open the new raids?
    [19:00] Eldorudo: We took a bet to see how long it would take for the servers to unlock the raids. Let me just say, Eladrin owes me lunch for a week! All kidding aside, we weren't quite sure how long it would take. We always seem to underestimate you folks, so yes we were a bit surprised when you unlocked the raids in 3 days.
    [19:00] Eladrin: But I knew Thelanis would open it first.
    [19:01] Eldorudo: Bah! Ghallanda was cheated!
    [19:01] Tolero: Mwuhahaha, Thelanis won ^^ now I can retroactively cheer
    [19:02] zigzag: *gyr* Is drinking a potion supposed to dump you out of combat expertise or is this just a bug? if so, when will it be fixed?
    [19:02] Eladrin: It's not intended that Combat Expertise drop after using potions (or monk finishers).
    [19:03] Eladrin: We're looking at various solutions including changing the basic nature of Combat Expertise.
    [19:04] zigzag: *Gforged* In the case of having DX10 support in future updates, will the game remain as compatible with older systems as it does now?
    [19:04] Eladrin: We intend for our minimum specs to remain the same, DX10 support should not adversely affect those systems.
    [19:06] zigzag: *Tomein|Khyber* +Keeper Do you like other foods than guacamole?
    [19:06] Keeper: I'm pregnant, so I love ALL food! Nom nom!
    [19:06] Keeper: I probably shouldn't have eaten that whole burrito, though. . . *burp*
    [19:06] Tolero: In faaaact... she has some right now! >> oh wait... she ate it
    [19:07] zigzag: That will wrap it up for tonight. Thanks to everyone for being here tonight, and we'll see you at our next DDO House of Commons! You can join #ddo to chat more about the game any time!. The log for tonight’s chat will be up shortly on (Link: http://www.stratics.com)http://www.stratics.com
    [19:07] Tolero: G'night everyone!
    [19:07] Eldorudo: Thanks for comin' all ye landlubbers! I look forward to chatting with you all next time and discussing all the super secret stuff on the way!
    [19:08] Keeper: Cheers everyone! Happy guacamoling to you all!
    [19:08] Eladrin: Good night everyone!
    [19:08] Eldorudo: Yaaarrrrk! Yaaarrrrk!
    [19:08] Tolero: Arrgh!
    ###
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  2. #2

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    Thanks for posting this Jerry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by courderoyguy View Post
    [18:40] zigzag: *Ashvirenza* My question is: Question for Piloto and Eladrin: People are bringing up that the monk's DPS does not compare to other classes and it does not attack fast enough to make it a viable stat damager (even if it had a wide choice). What role and what unique feature do you think will set monks apart from other classes and get them spots in groups. Is it solely there extensive utility?
    [18:41] Eladrin: We're paying close attention to the debates on the effectiveness of the monk, and will make changes if they prove necessary. The monk is an extremely versatile class and often takes some time to master.
    [18:42] Eladrin: This versatility allows the monk the ability to fill many different roles with a tremendous array of build options, especially when one multi-classes.
    [18:43] Eladrin: I'm sure that the players will surprise me with what they come up with.
    [18:51] zigzag: *Willphase* Are there plans to make monk wind stance alacrity stack with haste?
    [18:53] Eladrin: Currently wind stance does not stack with haste. It's possible if our evaluations deem wind stance needing a boost that a portion of the haste effect will stack with the haste spell. It's almost certainly not going to fully stack in the way that Tempest does - we've already seen how that played, and would like to see people playing something other than just two weapon fighting dex monks.
    This somewhat confirms my fears- that the devs did not properly analyze the monk class as it was being designed. As soon as I got my first monk to level 3, it gave me the impression that TWF kama would be the only way for a monk to make a reasonable combat contribution. Now getting to level 15 and the Shroud raid and such, that prediction is being borne out. In a boss fight, the monk is most useful with kamas, second with Power Attack staff, and unarmed comes in 3rd.

    That is reversed from how it should be- a high-level monk should prefer to use the unarmed animations for most purposes, and only switch to a weapon when he needs a special magical effect (like Vorpal or Holy Silver). Instead, times when I can punch are the rare occasions.

    Apparently the devs did not think much about TWF as they were designing monks. They probably said "Well, we already have the TWF feats working, so they'll continue to work and we don't need to think about it". In reality, it should have been a central topic of consideration.

    PS. As a reminder, my suggestion (from the Risia monk thread) is that if a monk has the TWF feats, his unarmed attack rate should be no less than his kama rate. There are multiple ways that could be achieved, such as by allowing unarmed to benefit from TWF, or increasing the baseline unarmed rate to be similar to TWF, or even by restricting monks from using TWF while centered.
    Last edited by Angelus_dead; 06-12-2008 at 09:25 AM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    This somewhat confirms my fears- that the devs did not properly analyze the monk class as it was being designed. As soon as I got my first monk to level 3, it gave me the impression that TWF kama would be the only way for a monk to make a reasonable combat contribution. Now getting to level 15 and the Shroud raid and such, that prediction is being borne out. In a boss fight, the monk is most useful with kamas, second with Power Attack staff, and unarmed comes in 3rd.

    That is reversed from how it should be- a high-level monk should prefer to use the unarmed animations for most purposes, and only switch to a weapon when he needs a special magical effect (like Vorpal or Holy Silver). Instead, times when I can punch are the rare occasions.

    Apparently the devs did not think much about TWF as they were designing monks. They probably said "Well, we already have the TWF feats working, so they'll continue to work and we don't need to think about it". In reality, it should have been a central topic of consideration.

    PS. As a reminder, my suggestion (from the Risia monk thread) is that if a monk has the TWF feats, his unarmed attack rate should be no less than his kama rate. There are multiple ways that could be achieved, such as by allowing unarmed to benefit from TWF, or increasing the baseline unarmed rate to be similar to TWF, or even by restricting monks from using TWF while centered.
    the class is not even 3 weeks old yet, give it a rest already, since when have any of the classes stayed totally static since they were introduced, just like everything else in this game they will be adjusted after some time in the game. They have stated that they are monitoring it and will make adjustments as needed
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkoHighStar View Post
    They have stated that they are monitoring it and will make adjustments as needed
    This is something they should've been able to figure out before the class was programmed, back when the monk abilities were still up on their whiteboard. Or failing that, it should've been detected in internal testing months ago, and been fixed before live release.

    You shouldn't need to monitor players to see something so fundamental.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and there's something hidden I've missed that will make unarmed combat a better idea. (Like a secret recipe for Green Steel Handwraps??) But it doesn't look that way yet.

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    I wonder why they chose the Half-Orc over the Gnome?

    I am glad to hear they are planning on implementing a crafting system I hope it's not modeled after World of Warcraft's crafting system. I hope the items are useful and make sense. I understand EQII had a really good crafting system when the game first came out.

    Edit: Thanks for posting this courderoyguy.

    I am also glad to see that the developer's are very active in expanding this game. I have been away from this game for over a year and half and I very much appreciate the changes that have been made. Honestly I can not think of a single change I don't like.
    Last edited by Kachi; 06-12-2008 at 10:24 AM.
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    Default For Keeper

    Since you have a Fever, that can only be cured though more Cowbe... Guacamole . . . Here ya go:

    3 avacados (hass has best flavor)
    6 green onions finely chopped
    6 tsp minced garlic (more if you want)
    6-9 finely chopped Seranno peppers (the canned variety [comes in can with carrots and onions] are nice]
    cilantro to taste (usually a good size handfull, finely chopped)
    dash of salt
    a tad of lime juice if wanted (keeps it from turning black too fast)

    Mix in a bowl and eat to your hearts content.

    3 chipotle peppers finely chopped [optional]
    2-3 roasted tomatillos finely chopped [optional]
    2-3 roasted poblano peppers skin removed and finely chopped [optional]

    2-3 seeded tomatos finely chopped [optional]

    Hopefully that will satisfy the guacamole fever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kachi View Post
    I wonder why they chose the Half-Orc over the Gnome?
    Five main reasons spring to mind:

    1. Half-orcs can fight. DDO is a game of combat.
    2. Half-orcs have a fundamental role not occupied by existing races. Gnomes do not.
    3. Half-orcs are big. Big things are easier to see in a video game.
    4. Half-orcs are visually distinct from existing races. It takes an expert to tell a gnome from a halfling.
    5. Orcs are cool.

  9. #9
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    And Dwarves need a Race to complain about being too powerful? (Re: Half Orcs)
    This space for Rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorrX View Post
    Since you have a Fever, that can only be cured though more Cowbe... Guacamole . . . Here ya go:

    3 avacados (hass has best flavor)
    6 green onions finely chopped
    6 tsp minced garlic (more if you want)
    6-9 finely chopped Seranno peppers (the canned variety [comes in can with carrots and onions] are nice]
    cilantro to taste (usually a good size handfull, finely chopped)
    dash of salt
    a tad of lime juice if wanted (keeps it from turning black too fast)

    Mix in a bowl and eat to your hearts content.

    3 chipotle peppers finely chopped [optional]
    2-3 roasted tomatillos finely chopped [optional]
    2-3 roasted poblano peppers skin removed and finely chopped [optional]

    2-3 seeded tomatos finely chopped [optional]

    Hopefully that will satisfy the guacamole fever.


    I'm not a fan of Guacamole but I would be willing to try this recipe. Thank you for sharing it.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Five main reasons spring to mind:

    1. Half-orcs can fight. DDO is a game of combat.
    2. Half-orcs have a fundamental role not occupied by existing races. Gnomes do not.
    3. Half-orcs are big. Big things are easier to see in a video game.
    4. Half-orcs are visually distinct from existing races. It takes an expert to tell a gnome from a halfling.
    5. Orcs are cool.
    Everything above is correct, now as to the reason why it is going to take longer is the animation, we have already seen that they have the basic model down from the Dev Diary video for mod 6. Now they have to ensure that every weapon and armor model type fits and moves well on the frame, plus whether there will be any clipping and pathing issues etc. If they keep them the same size as WF that shouldn;t be a problem.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Five main reasons spring to mind:

    1. Half-orcs can fight. DDO is a game of combat.
    2. Half-orcs have a fundamental role not occupied by existing races. Gnomes do not.
    3. Half-orcs are big. Big things are easier to see in a video game.
    4. Half-orcs are visually distinct from existing races. It takes an expert to tell a gnome from a halfling.
    5. Orcs are cool.

    1. I can see this. And Gnomes can cast spells as well as stick you with blade.
    2. What is there fundamental role?
    3. So are Wareforge.
    4. So is every other race, and I must be an expert.
    5. Ok personal opinions can count.

    Someone, who like Gnomes as well as you like Half-Orcs, could make the same counters.
    Last edited by Kachi; 06-12-2008 at 10:37 AM.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kachi View Post
    Someone, who like Gnomes as well as you like Half-Orcs, could make the same counters.
    How about: Half-orcs area much more popular demand because of their Str bonus?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkoHighStar View Post
    ...now as to the reason why it is going to take longer is the animation...

    Now that is a strong argument as to why the Half-Orc should be picked over the Gnome. The game already has Orcs in it so the models are they; you just need to make some modifications to them.

    But could you not make the same claim for the Gnome? We have the Halfling and Dwarf to model after.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    How about: Half-orcs area much more popular demand because of their Str bonus?

    Borror0 that is definitely a good point and an argument I have made, so that brings me to the question of why did they skimp on the Warforge? If anyone should have had a modifier to str it would have been the Warforge.

    P.s. I was looking at the DDO Wiki and I could not find the Monk listed under the classes.
    Last edited by Kachi; 06-12-2008 at 10:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kachi View Post

    Borror0 that is definitely a good point and an argument I have made, so that brings me to the question of why did they skimp on the Warforge? If anyone should have had a modifier to str it would have been the Warforge.
    that is a question for WOTC not Turbine as it is part of the racial features from the eberron texts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kachi View Post
    Now that is a strong argument as to why the Half-Orc should be picked over the Gnome. The game already has Orcs in it so the models are they; you just need to make some modifications to them.
    DDO's orc model is not enough like a half-orc to be a useful basis. They could use it to add a pure-orc race option, which isn't a horrible idea. But if they were going to allow you to play a pure monster race, Kobolds or Hobgoblins would be a better choice, as both of them have a higher rate of civilized cooperation with the dominate races of Stormreach.

    Aside from that, a monster model is not a useful basis for a player character model. It's just not very detailed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkoHighStar View Post
    that is a question for WOTC not Turbine as it is part of the racial features from the eberron texts
    Ah! Thanks ArkoHighStar. In that case bring on the Half-Orc Monks, Fighters, Paladins?, and etc.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kachi View Post
    P.s. I was looking at the DDO Wiki and I could not find the Monk listed under the classes.
    Really? Mind giving me the page? I'll fix that.

    Meanwhile, here's the monk page on the wiki.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    DDO's orc model is not enough like a half-orc to be a useful basis. They could use it to add a pure-orc race option, which isn't a horrible idea. But if they were going to allow you to play a pure monster race, Kobolds or Hobgoblins would be a better choice, as both of them have a higher rate of civilized cooperation with the dominate races of Stormreach.

    Aside from that, a monster model is not a useful basis for a player character model. It's just not very detailed.
    no but the skeleton can be useful as well as some o the textures etc. Animation as I stated must be redone to conform to the players multiple weapon swinging option, plus spell casting. Also all armor must be reworked to fit over the new mesh, which as we have already seen has been completed, but from the video did not look to have any animations attached.(he was basically a combat dummy for the monk animation testing)
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