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  1. #1
    Producer Tolero's Avatar
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    Default Updated Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

    Use this thread to provide feedback on the latest iteration of the raid!
    • If there are particular changes that make the experience better/worse, please call them out.
    • If it's your first time trying it, we're still interested in hearing from you too!

  2. #2
    Community Member DeadRabbat's Avatar
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    BETA ONLY It is no longer possible to access Epic raids on "casual" difficulty.
    BETA ONLY Demonweb

    The Demonweb… now featuring more shrines and evil!
    Ana Brabener no longer sees dead people.
    Elminster now looks more like his usual self in "Caught in the Web."
    Lolth's spell point drain is toned down on easier difficulty settings. Lolth will not focus on Ana unless there is no other target in range that she can see.
    Ana's dialogue now supports the new mechanic, where one Player is assigned to shield Ana from Lolth.
    Fixed the name of "Mistress of Agonies"
    The raid now has *drumroll* raid loot!
    Spelltraps now fire off properly in rough terrain.
    Lolth spawns new spelltraps less often.
    There is now a ceiling on the number of spellstraps Lolth will spawn at once, though she will move the traps around periodically. If her spelltraps aren't getting the job done, she will bring in monsters. If both of those strategies are going nicely for her, after a while she'll take some time to heal herself up a tiny bit.
    Ana now teleports to her guardian if she falls off the edge, rather than to a random location.

    ** Edit as of 6pm est. 15th june.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hey, I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails, but some of these changes are not going to be in Lamannia until Monday.

    Loot, for instance, is still not there, and I'm still testing spell traps to work correctly.
    So everyone knows... we are testing. This isn't Just about plunder.
    .
    Last edited by DeadRabbat; 06-15-2012 at 05:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That ship has sailed, came back, sailed again, got raided by pirates, became a pirate ship, got cursed to chase after the Flying Dutchman for three centuries, got exorcised to fight in the American Civil War, then got modernized to fight in both World Wars, participated in the D-Day landing and is a decommissioned museum/restaurant now in Key West, Florida.
    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    I knew i should have actually tested this.

  3. #3
    Community Member Xyfiel's Avatar
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    Live:
    30% xp

    Lam:
    No xp%
    No free leveling
    No pointsalot(broken still)
    No auto raid flag

    I tested some things to make sure they are working in Wolf form, and they are so nothing to report. I already copied my two characters who could really run/test epics. One is a Druid who didn't enjoy playing at high levels, and the other is a bugged out Palemaster. I have a vet7/stone16 char sitting at 16, but not leveling a million xp and flagging the whole raid series with no idea how long server will be up or losing the live xp bonus.

  4. #4
    Community Member DeadRabbat's Avatar
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    Well, we tested/ran though this raid again on Friday night. I joined late and spent a good portion trying to find group.
    1st off, group wasn't cohesive. We had a leader & then another usurped the leader but didn't read anything typed.
    so, lets begin...
    No spellwards on normal. At least not until the end (from what i saw when w/group) & then not so many. Nothing compared at all to our Christmas pageant on an earlier build. I wasn't at all the artifacts they did destroy, so I don't know if spell wards appeared at any. At least the artifacts I was with, no Spellwards.

    The artifact fights do seem a little more varied. Ana wasn't targeted and my same 20monk/5gof build was Not taking damage from the eye beams of doom. So, in my opinion, they still need tweaking, maybe. will test again hopefully tonight (if up). Others seemed to take damage, but at artifact fights, not so much. big difference between this build and last.. and now needs a happier medium.

    The path to the end was different.
    Ana seemed to get stuck a couple times still but since I wasn't with her as nanny, I do not know if the person got /loc or not. She did seem to teleport back to an artifact Not destroyed a few times (they gave up on that one) & I am not sure if it was from distance between nanny & Ana or problems with ai on who had her at this time.
    With mouse targeting, it is still very easy to accidentally hit Ana and take control.

    The end fight also seemed toned down some..but i could be imagining that. We still had plenty of deaths, more then we should have. I only had 6 (alot less then my 17 from previous 2 attempts). The time was reset when entering the last area where Ana fights Lolth, so no clue on how long it actually was-over 200min. She had no health.... so only one chest. Again, that was from communication and some of the group not reading what those of us w/no mic type. I would have like to have tested the artifacts and healing Ana more but... sigh.

    People kept trying to heal Ana... found that one spell did have some effect but was a secondary effect. I do not know which one. I do not believe anyone tried buffing her.

    I will post this in Gof thread, but Everything is Nothing seems to bug out those at the far fringe of the effect, where they still act and damage us, but we can't them. had to dot & finger those effected. Also Everything is Nothing did not kill orange named at end. I hope that was changed from (because of)my posts before. Though it didn't seem to do any damage at all to at least one of them(guardian garisto), so still might need tweaking. I believe there were 4 waves, maybe 5 at the end, that we fought through until each guardian was dead.

    All in all, I was disappointed in group so still disappointed in raid. But again I will do & wait until monday, when maybe even the one chest at end we seem to always get drops us some plunder worth plundering.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That ship has sailed, came back, sailed again, got raided by pirates, became a pirate ship, got cursed to chase after the Flying Dutchman for three centuries, got exorcised to fight in the American Civil War, then got modernized to fight in both World Wars, participated in the D-Day landing and is a decommissioned museum/restaurant now in Key West, Florida.
    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    I knew i should have actually tested this.

  5. #5
    Community Member Henky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadRabbat View Post
    People kept trying to heal Ana... found that one spell did have some effect but was a secondary effect. I do not know which one. I do not believe anyone tried buffing her.
    I joined one group on friday, maybe it was the same as yours. I was on my FvS 25 (Konokka). I buffed Ana with resistances, DW and FoM, no problem at all. Ana was inmune to heal, but not to the part that cure stat damage.

    The Lolth hand is really annoying, it keep knocking me down, and send me off in one of the web-bridges teleporting me to a random location.

  6. #6
    Community Member Rizzia's Avatar
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    Is the spellpoint damage meant to be so high? (250 sp per hit on normal)

  7. #7
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzia View Post
    Is the spellpoint damage meant to be so high? (250 sp per hit on normal)


    * Adds bold/italics/underline emphasis to his "never run this raid on my clerics" note *
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  8. #8
    FlimsyFirewood
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    It was about 4500 per hit before it got nerfed.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    It was about 4500 per hit before it got nerfed.
    I hate to say it but it's almost crystal clear. Major Mana Pot Sponge. Where's the easiest place to get them? Well we all know.

    While this may not have been exactly the idea behind it (it's challenging and different are a couple others), once the raid is known enough to diminish other challenging parts, it's all that left over. Yes I understand every run might not be this way (and pls save me the "Oh, if this happens your doing it wrong". Everyone is going to do it wrong for the first couple of months. Excluding some players who will do nothing but this once it goes live.

    I as a person who heals a lot find I this so unappealing, I probably will NEVER run this raid once it goes live. I can understand using mana pots when I am slacking or messed up, I won't when it's just for the heck of it. You effectively kill a healer's ability to heal after 3-4 hit (1000sp) without them having to drink a pot.(when considering they still have a ton of healing to do) Just for that reason. And yes I did test it on Lama.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 06-19-2012 at 10:24 AM.

  10. #10
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    It was about 4500 per hit before it got nerfed.
    So this new raid is not only the LEAST favorite mechanic of all time, loot is tied to an NPC you can't control, but you can get hit in it for Spell Point Damage?

    Thanks, I will ensure I never run it on any sort of divine.
    That sort of mechanic adds zero challenge, but opens up the pipeline to the DDO store potions.

    Come on guys, really? Bad decision on top of bad decision on top of bad decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    It was about 4500 per hit before it got nerfed.
    I don't like this.
    Arcane ozzes are greatly fear, and they sure don't do anywhere near 250 sp loss per hit.

    Can an artificer or a paladin or a ranger afford this?

    Why do you think we try so hard to get a torc or craft an expensive cocordinate opposition weapon?

    Spell points are precious to us.

    I don't like this.
    I don't like this.
    I don't like this.
    I don't like this.
    I don't like this.
    I don't like this.
    I don't like this.

    (Did I mention I don't like this?)

    Try changing it to something like -3d6 spell points, please if you must use such a disliked technique.

    This raid should be fun to play, please remove the unfun stuff now, thanks.

  12. #12
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    I can see the lfms now:
    Link valid credit card.

  13. #13
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    yeah i really don't understand why divine blast now drains sp O_o ... i mean changing the damage from force to random elemental damage ... well doesn't really change much, but at least it gets a bit more interesting ... sp-drains .... especially in a super long raid, with loads of unavoidable incoming damage PLUS tons of traps PLUS lots of mobs ... really dunno what the devs were thinking when they made that sp drain ... i mean on lamma its fine ... i don't care about my pot usage there ... but on live? ... so basically this will mean:

    .) forget sp-based healing
    .) forget all sorcs and wizards
    .) artis are the only healers now, with scrolls
    .) fvs are now gimpy fighters
    .) clerics are now gimpy pallys
    .) wizards are now inflict pots jugging necro-blast machines
    .) sorcs ... ach just screw them sorcs lol

    /nerdrage off^^
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  14. #14
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Encouraging a melee to tank lolth instead of caster is unfun?

    not in my book. Melees are meant to be the tanks.

    Awesome addition flimsy.

    It's not exactly hard to get lolths attention guys, just get a melee to tank her and stop trying to do it on your clr/fvs and youll keep your precious spell points.

    I'm guessing you guys havent even tried the raid if your THAT worried to exagerate so much.

    TIP: You don't even really fight her except in a few pre set areas, in which case the first person into the area gets her agro. It's pretty simple to ensure thats the tank.

    It's very doable without mana potions. Changing lolths attack wont change that.

    Doing the optional without them may proove quite challenging, but I bet thats doable too once we get a good strategy set up.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Encouraging a melee to tank lolth instead of caster is unfun?

    not in my book. Melees are meant to be the tanks.

    Awesome addition flimsy.

    It's not exactly hard to get lolths attention guys, just get a melee to tank her and stop trying to do it on your clr/fvs and youll keep your precious spell points.

    I'm guessing you guys havent even tried the raid if your THAT worried to exagerate so much.

    TIP: You don't even really fight her except in a few pre set areas, in which case the first person into the area gets her agro. It's pretty simple to ensure thats the tank.

    It's very doable without mana potions. Changing lolths attack wont change that.

    Doing the optional without them may proove quite challenging, but I bet thats doable too once we get a good strategy set up.
    It's still stupid. SP damage in a game where they sell SP pots for real money is just wrong.

    if you want your melee to tank and not a FvS make your melee a more viable tank.
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  16. #16
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Encouraging a melee to tank lolth instead of caster is unfun?

    not in my book. Melees are meant to be the tanks.

    Awesome addition flimsy.
    So in your opinion then, rangers, paladins, splash builds, clerics, fvs shouldn't be up there tanking either?

    I'm not so worried about the sorc/wiz's... But any kind of melee based caster build will be S.O.L. against this kind of thing.
    Think it through, guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    It's still stupid. SP damage in a game where they sell SP pots for real money is just wrong.

    if you want your melee to tank and not a FvS make your melee a more viable tank.
    Screws pally tanks really bad too.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post

    It's very doable without mana potions. Changing lolths attack wont change that.

    .
    Doable? Maybe. Fun for the majority of players? I bet not-so-much. You could manage with a eRoSS, and bauble.

    I don't have the time nor the resources you choose to put into the game. While I respect your own opinion as much as I do mine, please stop talking like you speak for everyone.

    And if you notice my post, for the first few months as people attempt to figure it out what's are going; it's going to be so resource intensive for the average to above average player (let say the middle class) that it will be no fun.

    And as strictly a analogy and by no means a character assassination, your represent the 1%'ers of DDO. There are 99% of people who don't want to spend 1000 (or whatever hours) figuring out what to do just so they don't have to drink a pot.

    Now that doesn't mean to make it easier. I love difficult, but this is ludicrous. There are TONS of way to make this more challenging other than consuming resources to encourage eStore buys.

    And optional? Doesn't everyone want more loot and more chances for raid loot? Skipping it will be hard to do (but probably necessary if you don't want to drink pots galore.

  19. #19
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    So in your opinion then, rangers, paladins, splash builds, clerics, fvs shouldn't be up there tanking either?

    I'm not so worried about the sorc/wiz's... But any kind of melee based caster build will be S.O.L. against this kind of thing.
    I'd say that's the point they're trying to get across. If your character would be crippled by having 0 sp then it would make a poor tank in this situation. I have absolutely no issue with FVS having a hard time tanking in there. If they choose to tank, they do it without sp. If they can manage that, then they are good to go. It's a smaller price to pay on a ranger as many of their best spells are cast then they are fine for 20 minutes or more. Paladins probably take the biggest hit with their short duration buffs. One of their PRE's is tank based so it would be unfortunate if they weren't able to perform that role well in the newest end game raid content. Collateral paladin nerfs are not what they need right now.

    If the devs are resorting to SP debuffs to discourage divine/arcane tanks then I think there is a bigger problem they need to address concerning class balance and ability. Adjusting quest mechanics to encourage diversity is never the way to go. It was a huge success *sarcasm* in Abbot when they made him more "melee friendly" by adjusting his hp such that casters couldn't nuke freely as they have before. Again, that was a change to content to address underlying imbalances in characters. Fix the imbalances and you don't have to touch content to keep it "fun" for melee.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-19-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    So did any raid loot drop?
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