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  1. #261
    Community Member Trowa88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    Bad news! 82 Search is not enough to find traps in Orchard quests on EE. I know because that's exactly what I had and I wasn't able to find anything. What's worse is that I'm not seeing how to boost it. The only thing I can think of doing is plug in a +2 exec Int augment somewhere and then take some Dex points from my ED and put then in Int. Anyone know what Search score you need?
    Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer from Power play has Enhanced search +5 which afaik would stack, another +1 from a find Traps scroll could be gotten too as well as a higher good luck bonus (upgraded Manual of Stealthy Pilfering gives +3)
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  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trowa88 View Post
    Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer from Power play has Enhanced search +5 which afaik would stack, another +1 from a find Traps scroll could be gotten too as well as a higher good luck bonus (upgraded Manual of Stealthy Pilfering gives +3)
    That's a great suggestion. Thank you. Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer would give a +5 stacking bonus getting me to 87. I don't know of any other item with enhanced search, so this is great. For me, personally, here are the possibilities:
    1. Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer for +5
    2. Upgraded Manual of Stealthy Pilfering would give another +1 (I already have good luck +2) another I'd lose a +1 because I have inst Int +3 on the trinket. The Epic Mushroom Cap would give good luck +3 as well.
    3. A +20 search item that wasn't on the trinket would also give me another +1 from profane Int, but if I'm using the Upgraded Manual of Stealthy Pilfering then this isn't an option
    4. An excep Int +2 augment would get me another +1
    5. Find Traps scroll for another +1


    Ugh. The dex-based Assassin is clearly superior, but there is a lot swapping taking place for traps. Here's what I'm doing right now:
    1. Epic Litany of Dead --> Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass (gives +20 search which I don't have elsewhere & +3 insight Int)
    2. Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance --> Skullduggery Kit (gives Int skills exceptional bonus +6)
    3. Seal of House Avithoul --> Epic Eye of the Beholder (gives +11 Int, and +13 if I slot a +2 augment)
    4. Iron Mitts --> Gloves of Forgotten Craft (gives +20 disable which I don't have elsewhere)
    5. Epic Ethereal Bracers --> Ventilated Bracers (gives +5 enhanced disable)


    That's 5 swaps! #4 and #5 are only for disable, but typically that's what you're doing after the search. With Epic Mentau's Googles --> Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer to bump Search to 87, that would be 6. With an Upgraded Manual of Stealthy Pilfering (which is not dropping from tress) I suppose I could drop #2 and #4, but that would still be 4 swaps. It's a little crazy. Anyway, I'll make finding Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer the next order of business. Hopefully I can solo farm that.

    Update: The Upgraded Manual of Stealthy Pilfering does not have search, so I'll still need a Search +20 item. While I could avoid swaps #2 and #4, I'd need a new swap for Search +20. So there are still going to be five swaps. This is nuts!

    Update #2: Power Play is easy to solo and I got the Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer on the first run. (Better to be lucky than good.) Anyway, 87 did the trick in EE Vol, so the number you need is somewhere between 83 and 87. Still, I had to swap 4 items for the search and another 2 for the disable. Ugh. Also, a 72 spot will not do it. Hassan has 76, but my guess is that you'll need a spot between 83 and 87, too. With this build I don't see how you can get there.
    Last edited by Calaquende; 07-19-2015 at 12:41 AM.

  3. #263
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Thank you Calaquende for the heads up about search being too low. I'm still only level 23 so I haven't done Necro 4 yet, although I know I was able to find those traps on my dex based human version before I TRed to halfling. I was probably using some of what is listed below.

    Based upon the current gear set listed in the OP, as well as the suggestions made, here is the updated search breakdown:

    Search:
    23 base
    8 epic
    3 skill tome
    12 int35
    20 item
    6 exc int skills item
    2 good luck
    1 elite spider cult mask
    3 danger room ship buff
    4 GH
    82 TOTAL
    2 skill tome +5
    1 find traps scroll
    1 good luck 3 (Epic Mushroom Cap)
    2 int 11 item (Epic Eye of the Beholder)
    5 enhanced (Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer)
    93 TOTAL

    That might be the max this build can attain. Hopefully it will be enough for new content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    Also, a 72 spot will not do it. Hassan has 76, but my guess is that you'll need a spot between 83 and 87, too. With this build I don't see how you can get there.
    Spot has always been lower than search, so I wouldn't expect spot to also require mid 80s. That said, if it is not sufficient, there should only be a handful of quests where it is not. So it should be easy enough to learn the traps in those quests and not worry about spotting them.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 07-21-2015 at 03:30 PM.
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  4. #264
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    I have it written down that my dex based assassin has a 92 search and a 77 spot. Those numbers have worked well for me and I do not have to do much swapping (1 item I think). I will edit with a break down as soon as I can log into game.
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  5. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Thank you Calaquende for the heads up about search being too low. I'm still only level 23 so I haven't done Necro 4 yet, although I know I was able to find those traps on my dex based human version before I TRed to halfling. I was probably using some of what is listed below.

    Based upon the current gear set listed in the OP, as well as the suggestions made, here is the updated search breakdown:

    Search:
    23 base
    8 epic
    3 tome
    12 int35
    20 item
    6 exc int skills item
    2 good luck
    1 elite spider cult mask
    3 danger room ship buff
    4 GH
    82 TOTAL
    2 tome +5
    1 find traps scroll
    1 good luck 3 (Epic Mushroom Cap)
    2 int 11 item (Epic Eye of the Beholder)
    5 enhanced (Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer)
    93 TOTAL

    That might be the max this build can attain. Hopefully it will be enough for new content.



    Spot has always been lower than search, so I wouldn't expect spot to also require mid 80s. That said, if it is not sufficient, there should only be a handful of quests where it is not. So it should be easy enough to learn the traps in those quests and not worry about spotting them.

    you will be stuck with gear swapping right through to cap.
    it just works out that way.. DPS gear then shuffle for trapping..

    I run a cleric trapper that hasn't been updated for a while.. that self boosts to 97 search (should be 99).. with some additional items and tweaking can break 100 easy enough.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Trapper-Cleric
    Cleric does have the advantage of being able to get a +8 to search from the find traps spell.. but Int is not a focus stat for me.. my base int is 14..
    so some potential there for rogues..
    losing the skill boost from going human to Halfling may have been that edge between the find/no find zone..


    At level 23..
    I used Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing for +20 but if using
    +5 monocle http://ddowiki.com/page/Wolfinson%27...cular_Enhancer
    then can use
    +17 Bracers of twisting shade at level 23
    +20 Bracers of twisting shade at level 25 http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bracers...ade_(Level_25)
    at level 28 you can randomly get +20 search on a prismatic cloak http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Prismat...let_(Level_28)

    Treasure hunter spyglass was a tough one for me (.Litany rarely leaves my trinket spot.) but is a great item..
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Treasur...r%27s_Spyglass


    Trapping:
    Pretty tough to beat the Manual of Stealthy Pilfering for disabling http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Manual_...lthy_Pilfering
    add ventilated Bracers http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ventilated_Bracers or Tinkers goggles http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tinker's_Goggles
    Last edited by JOTMON; 07-21-2015 at 11:21 AM.
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  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Search:
    23 base
    8 epic
    3 tome
    12 int35
    20 item
    6 exc int skills item
    2 good luck
    1 elite spider cult mask
    3 danger room ship buff
    4 GH
    82 TOTAL
    2 tome +5
    1 find traps scroll
    1 good luck 3 (Epic Mushroom Cap)
    2 int 11 item (Epic Eye of the Beholder)
    5 enhanced (Wolfinson's Monocular Enhancer)
    93 TOTAL
    A single swap, or even two, would be fine, but it looks like we're going to have to content ourselves with *lots* of swapping, which isn't the end of the world either. For your setup (which I continue to believe is the best - I'm level 28, have all the gear except Eidolons and the cloak, and it's awesome), you don't run with a +20 item or the +6 exc skill item, so that's two swaps. The +11 int item and +5 enhanced from Wolfinson's is two more swaps. (I'm thinking you could probably get away with not having to swap the helm for another +1 good luck, especially if you already have that on the +6 exc skill item, like the Pilfering.) OK, so we're at 4 swaps for the Search. Now we need two more swaps for the Disable - the +20 item and, if you like, the +5 from Ventilated Bracers.

    *6 swaps for a trap!* If you have Pilfering it already has +20 disable, so that would make only 5 swaps, but it's still 5. I've set up my hotbar with everything in a line so just click down five times and then do it again when I'm done. It's not too bad, but a little inconvenient in battle. Anyway, I've got the +5 int tome (from when I was int-based) but don't have the elite spider cult mask (that irritates me since I could have bought it way back when) or the danger room ship buff (because my RLF guild is gimp).

  7. #267
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    I have it written down that my dex based assassin has a 92 search and a 77 spot. Those numbers have worked well for me and I do not have to do much swapping (1 item I think). I will edit with a break down as soon as I can log into game.
    Thanks man. That would be greatly appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    A single swap, or even two, would be fine, but it looks like we're going to have to content ourselves with *lots* of swapping, which isn't the end of the world either.
    I don't mind swapping. Trapping has always been all about the gear and swapping is just part of that. There's two factors which have made trapping more gear intensive. First, and most obvious, the shift from int based to dex based. Second, the excessive inflation of everything (e.g. mob stats, gear, trap DCs, etc.) as it approaches level cap. The second factor, along with lag, seems to be how Turbine chooses to define and implement challenge, unfortunately. So it makes sense that trapping will be more gear intensive. It always has been, now it's just more so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    I'm thinking you could probably get away with not having to swap the helm for another +1 good luck, especially if you already have that on the +6 exc skill item, like the Pilfering.
    The Manual of Stealthy Pilfering isn't an option for me because I have Epic Litany, which also means that my only source (at least until U27 goes live) for good luck 3 is the Epic Mushroom Cap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    I've got the +5 int tome (from when I was int-based)
    I meant +5 skill tome, not int. I already have a +6 int tome accounted for in the stat breakdown. I'll clarify that.
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  8. #268
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Gear load out:
    Goggles: Epic Mentau's Goggles - True Imperial Blood Slotted (exceptional +1 all abilities)
    Head: Epic Muffled Veneer
    Neck: Mystic Eidolons
    Trinket: Epic Litany of the dead "For traps Swap with" Manual of Stealthy Pilfering - Diamond of search +13 slotted, Good Luck +3, Dex Skills exceptional +6, Int Skills exceptional +6
    Cloak: Epic Cloak of Ice
    Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Rememberance
    Ring: Guardian's ring - Int +8 slotted
    Ring: Seal of House Avithoul
    Gauntlets: Iron Mitts - Diamond of Insightful Int +2
    Boots: GS Smoke II Boots
    Bracers: Epic Ethereal Bracers
    Armor Shadow Dragonhide

    Disable Device: 73
    Open Locks: 86
    Search: 72
    Spot: 82

    Trinket: "For traps Swap with" Manual of Stealthy Pilfering - Diamond of search +13 slotted, Good Luck +3, Dex Skills exceptional +6, Int Skills exceptional +6
    Disable Device: 99
    Open Locks: 106
    Search: 91
    Spot: 82

    The above numbers are with ship buffs and gear, no GH, 3 artificer past lives, 3 epic past lives "skill mastery" and completionist feat.

    Search:
    23 base
    8 epic
    4 skill tome
    15 int 40
    13 item
    6 exc int skills item
    3 good luck
    1 elite spider cult mask
    3 danger room ship buff
    4 GH
    3 Artificer past lives
    3 Epic martial past lives
    1 skill mastery
    6 Technician (Shadowdancer ED)
    2 completionist
    95 TOTAL

    Disable Device: 103
    Open Locks: 108
    Search: 95
    Spot: 86

    so with just 1 swap item I can get my search to 95

    Gijo Dex
    Rogue 20
    True Neutral Human


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . .+5. . . .4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 18. . . .+5. . . .8: DEX
    Constitution. . 15. . . .+5. . . 12: DEX
    Intelligence. . 16. . . .+6. . . 16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .9. . . .+5. . . 20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .9. . . .+4. . . 24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX


    With my gear set at level 28, these starting stats allow all my stats to be even numbers and my assassinate to reach 72. Yes I run in shadowdancer, that is what is most fun for me.

    IF needed I have Epic Time Sensing Googles for a +20 search, but so far I have not needed those
    Last edited by Bolo_Grubb; 07-21-2015 at 05:30 PM.
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  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo
    The Manual of Stealthy Pilfering isn't an option for me because I have Epic Litany, which also means that my only source (at least until U27 goes live) for good luck 3 is the Epic Mushroom Cap.
    Epic Litany only gives you +1 to skill (from the +2 profane stat bonus) so swapping it out isn't that big of a loss, especially if your Manual of Stealthy Pilfering has good luck +3 and your other choices are only good luck +2. From a convenience standpoint, the Manual of Stealthy Pilfering seems like a nice way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    Search:
    23 base
    8 epic
    4 skill tome
    15 int 40
    13 item
    6 exc int skills item
    3 good luck
    1 elite spider cult mask
    3 danger room ship buff
    4 GH
    3 Artificer past lives
    3 Epic martial past lives
    1 skill mastery
    6 Technician (Shadowdancer ED)
    2 completionist
    95 TOTAL
    That's a pretty impressive number, but, at least as far as I'm concerned, it's never going to happen. I'll never reach completionist or have a single Artificer past life, let alone 3. I'm also never going to have the elite spider cult mask. I'd much prefer Martial Sphere Doublstrike over Skill Mastery, so that's a lot of ETR that isn't going to happen for me. I'm also not sure about spending three points in Shadowdancer for Technician. There's a lot of good stuff in there. I hesitated on the Skill Mastery feat, but in the end decided to go with Slippery Mind based on discussion regarding how a high-40s will save makes it interesting. And finally my guild isn't high enough level for the danger room ship buff. So right there I'm missing 17 points! Guess I'm going to have to stick with swapping. (Again, it's not really the end of the world. Just a little bit of a nuisance.)

    Update: Just ran Haunted Halls for the first time. Um... all the swapping is, in fact, a bit of a pain. That being said, I'm not seeing much that can be done about it. Oh well.
    Last edited by Calaquende; 07-21-2015 at 11:15 PM.

  10. #270
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Have you had any thoughts on u27 items yet?

    So far http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Strange_Tidings sticks out in my mind. It has +12 Dex and +8 more SA over Avithoul while insightful is covered by quiver. Though lose +5 to bluff checks (unless have agony/assassins kiss equipped) and more importantly deception VIII only 5% chance to deceive target where improved deception is supposed to be double of old deception items (5%).

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sightless is something else I might consider if in Shadowdancer as not sure having 120-130 hide/ms to 100-110 makes too much difference to me in being spotted. Also augments can use used to make up some of the difference.

    Sightless also means you can dump Guardian ring for Strange Tidings/Avithoul or Beholder ring for boost to KtA.

  11. #271
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    ...search breakdown...
    Thanks for the breakdown Bolo. I'd +1 ya but I gotta spread it around first.

    Like Calaquende, I also don't/won't have access to those past life benefits, so I'll have to rely on swapping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    Epic Litany only gives you +1 to skill (from the +2 profane stat bonus) so swapping it out isn't that big of a loss, especially if your Manual of Stealthy Pilfering has good luck +3 and your other choices are only good luck +2. From a convenience standpoint, the Manual of Stealthy Pilfering seems like a nice way to go.
    Well if you don't need to maximize your skills, then I'd agree that the Manual is the way to go from a convenience standpoint. But since we are talking about the need, and how, to maximize, dropping Litany is not the way to go. If you have +20 disable, +6 exc skills, and +2 good luck elswhere, then there is no difference between profane stats +2 and +3 good luck. You end up with the same number either way. But keeping Litany and swapping in +3 good luck elsewhere (which is only available on helm slot apparently) is a way to squeeze out 1 more search, if you need to maximize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    Have you had any thoughts on u27 items yet?

    So far http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Strange_Tidings sticks out in my mind. It has +12 Dex and +8 more SA over Avithoul while insightful is covered by quiver. Though lose +5 to bluff checks (unless have agony/assassins kiss equipped) and more importantly deception VIII only 5% chance to deceive target where improved deception is supposed to be double of old deception items (5%).

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sightless is something else I might consider if in Shadowdancer as not sure having 120-130 hide/ms to 100-110 makes too much difference to me in being spotted. Also augments can use used to make up some of the difference.

    Sightless also means you can dump Guardian ring for Strange Tidings/Avithoul or Beholder ring for boost to KtA.
    I had not looked at the new gear in depth until you posted this. Having looked at them, and assuming they go live as currently posted on the wiki, these two items are what I'll be incorporating. I'll drop the Guardian's Ring since the PRR will be covered. That way I can keep improved deception. That effect alone is worth it's own slot imo. The biggest loss from dropping the Muffled Veneer is spot 20, but I'll just slot spot 15 somewhere. A few other slots will need to be changed as well. Thanks for the suggestions.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 07-24-2015 at 06:47 AM.
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  12. #272
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post

    Like Calaquende, I also don't/won't have access to those past life benefits, so I'll have to rely on swapping.
    The majority of the time I don't use the +3 skill mastery from past life and instead use the the the bonus to double strike. Just showing what is possible. Besides turning the past life feat on and off is no different then item swapping, so it is an option if needed.
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  13. #273
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    The majority of the time I don't use the +3 skill mastery from past life and instead use the the the bonus to double strike. Just showing what is possible. Besides turning the past life feat on and off is no different then item swapping, so it is an option if needed.
    Oh yeah I wouldn't think you'd keep skill mastery toggled on all the time, only when needed. It's the past life grind that I simply don't have time for. The artificer past life x3 and completionist are another 5 points I'll never have access to.

    I'm going to link your post in the OP so others can see different sources to boost their search.
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  14. #274
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    Question Kiss vs Agony DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Updated the OP for U25. Changes that were made:

    Gear:
    ~Added Assassin's Kiss.
    I noticed you have the Assassin's Kiss in the off-hand by default, but have you looked at the DPS compared to Agony? Sure the Kiss give +4 to Assassinate DC, which is great, but you can get +4 with the Mythic Veneer (has anyone ever seen one of those?) or +2 with the Epic Veneer. It seems like Agony has a lot more DPS, so is the extra pluses worth it? Also, I see you might be switching out the helm with the next update, but I'd still be interested in your thoughts on this.

  15. #275
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    I noticed you have the Assassin's Kiss in the off-hand by default, but have you looked at the DPS compared to Agony? Sure the Kiss give +4 to Assassinate DC, which is great, but you can get +4 with the Mythic Veneer (has anyone ever seen one of those?) or +2 with the Epic Veneer. It seems like Agony has a lot more DPS, so is the extra pluses worth it? Also, I see you might be switching out the helm with the next update, but I'd still be interested in your thoughts on this.
    I have done full dps calcs for both Agony and Assassin's Kiss using the gear listed in the OP and at level 28. Assassin's Kiss actually offers higher dps than Agony. They both have the same base damage. Assassin's Kiss has no damage procs, whereas Agony has three which are quite nice, but they are not affected by either crits or melee power. Assassin's Kiss has an extra crit multiplier, and that really goes a long way. Assassin's Kiss also offers +6 assassination DC, which isn't available anywhere else.

    I initially though that Agony would beat Assassin's Kiss as well, which is why I took the time to do the full calcs. I posted them in a thread that was a critique about the nonsensical nature of the effects on Assassin's Kiss, but I can't find that post/thread anymore. I'm not sure if it was on the Lamannia or regular forums, but the Lamannia forums are up, so the thread should be there regardless. I don't see it in my post history.

    And I will be switching to the new raid helm. I will update the gear set in the OP sometime in the next few days.
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  16. #276
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    I noticed you have the Assassin's Kiss in the off-hand by default, but have you looked at the DPS compared to Agony? Sure the Kiss give +4 to Assassinate DC, which is great, but you can get +4 with the Mythic Veneer (has anyone ever seen one of those?) or +2 with the Epic Veneer. It seems like Agony has a lot more DPS, so is the extra pluses worth it? Also, I see you might be switching out the helm with the next update, but I'd still be interested in your thoughts on this.
    Assassins Kiss has +6 Assassinate DC and mythic version also has +2 melee power. Im not 100% certain but I believe the BDR on Agony includes the bonus from Improve Crit Pierce where as Assassins Kiss does not.

  17. #277
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    Assassins Kiss has +6 Assassinate DC and mythic version also has +2 melee power. Im not 100% certain but I believe the BDR on Agony includes the bonus from Improve Crit Pierce where as Assassins Kiss does not.
    I wouldn't give any credit at all to the base damage ratings. Far too many relevant factors are not included in that number. Unfortunately the only way to get a real comparison of weapon damage is by either number crunching or in game dps testing, both of which have their limitations.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Default Which ring to keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I have done full dps calcs for both Agony and Assassin's Kiss using the gear listed in the OP and at level 28. Assassin's Kiss actually offers higher dps than Agony. They both have the same base damage. Assassin's Kiss has no damage procs, whereas Agony has three which are quite nice, but they are not affected by either crits or melee power. Assassin's Kiss has an extra crit multiplier, and that really goes a long way. Assassin's Kiss also offers +6 assassination DC, which isn't available anywhere else.

    I initially though that Agony would beat Assassin's Kiss as well, which is why I took the time to do the full calcs. I posted them in a thread that was a critique about the nonsensical nature of the effects on Assassin's Kiss, but I can't find that post/thread anymore. I'm not sure if it was on the Lamannia or regular forums, but the Lamannia forums are up, so the thread should be there regardless. I don't see it in my post history.

    And I will be switching to the new raid helm. I will update the gear set in the OP sometime in the next few days.
    Excellent. Thanks. I'd be curious to see that thread if you're ever able to find it. Now I'll have to grind one out, which is a bummer given how much effort I've put into upgrading Agony, but that's how it goes in DDO.

    In addition to swapping out the helm, I'm assuming you're going to swap out a ring for the Dex +12 item. That makes a lot of sense, especially given the nice sneak bonus as well. You suggested that you'd drop the Guardian's Ring, but what about the Seal of House Avithoul? The Seal has improved deception, but you've got that on the Kiss. And I'm assuming that the sneak bonus on the Seal won't stack with the sneak bonus on the Strange Tidings. What is your thinking there? I want to go with Strange Tidings + Consuming Darkness so I can wear the Epic Glimpse of the Soul, so I'd like to drop the Seal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    Excellent. Thanks. I'd be curious to see that thread if you're ever able to find it. Now I'll have to grind one out, which is a bummer given how much effort I've put into upgrading Agony, but that's how it goes in DDO.
    Yeah I don't know why I can't find it. It's really bothering me actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    In addition to swapping out the helm, I'm assuming you're going to swap out a ring for the Dex +12 item. That makes a lot of sense, especially given the nice sneak bonus as well. You suggested that you'd drop the Guardian's Ring, but what about the Seal of House Avithoul? The Seal has improved deception, but you've got that on the Kiss. And I'm assuming that the sneak bonus on the Seal won't stack with the sneak bonus on the Strange Tidings. What is your thinking there? I want to go with Strange Tidings + Consuming Darkness so I can wear the Epic Glimpse of the Soul, so I'd like to drop the Seal.
    With the new helm, Guardian's Ring won't offer anything at all, so that's an obvious choice to drop. I'd mainly choose Strange Tidings for the higher sneak attack damage. The 12 dex is nice but I'm already at an even number with 11 dex. I haven't decided yet how I will adjust to the uneven dex. I'll either drop 1 dex from enhancements or ED, or add 1 from enhancements.

    Improved deception on an item will stack with the improved deception from a weapon, so it will proc more often. If I understand correctly, improved deception has a 10% proc rate whereas deception has a 5% proc rate. Personally, I'd rather not drop my deception proc rate on an assassin. That just seems too valuable imo. For it's contribution to maximize sneak attack dps, as well as the defensive benefits of having a mob turned around consistently, I think improved deception is worth its own slot. So for now I plan to keep the Avithoul Seal for improved deception alone. It also comes with insightful wis 2, so that saves me a slot.

    Strange Tiding + Consuming Darkness + Epic Glimpse of the Soul is definitely another solid option though.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    With the new helm, Guardian's Ring won't offer anything at all, so that's an obvious choice to drop. I'd mainly choose Strange Tidings for the higher sneak attack damage. The 12 dex is nice but I'm already at an even number with 11 dex. I haven't decided yet how I will adjust to the uneven dex. I'll either drop 1 dex from enhancements or ED, or add 1 from enhancements.

    Improved deception on an item will stack with the improved deception from a weapon, so it will proc more often. If I understand correctly, improved deception has a 10% proc rate whereas deception has a 5% proc rate. Personally, I'd rather not drop my deception proc rate on an assassin. That just seems too valuable imo. For it's contribution to maximize sneak attack dps, as well as the defensive benefits of having a mob turned around consistently, I think improved deception is worth its own slot. So for now I plan to keep the Avithoul Seal for improved deception alone. It also comes with insightful wis 2, so that saves me a slot.

    Strange Tiding + Consuming Darkness + Epic Glimpse of the Soul is definitely another solid option though.
    Again, great answer. I see why the Guardian's Ring will go. While Strange Tidings has Deception VIII, you also have Improved Deception on the Assassin's Kiss, so you already have it twice. The Seal of House Avithoul would give you another Improved Deception, so perhaps you'll have 3 items procing. I agree - it's nice to have the mobs turning around.

    My Seal has Dex +2, so that's a bummer. However, I also stupidly put on the Resistance Ritual, so if I drop it I'll have to put it elsewhere (Strange Tiding?) and that's going to take 4 collectibles that I don't have. Ugh. I really like the idea of having the Wiz+11 & Bluff+20 item with True Seeing & Intercession Ward & some of the other save bonuses, but Strange Tiding + Seal of House Avithoul + Epic Mentau's Goggles is probably a better bet. Previously I said "In the end you get True Seeing, better Will saves (and Spot) and better Bluff for a cost of only +8 PRR (or 3% damage reduction)," but now it's more like you get True Seeing (so you don't have to scroll cast), +3 Wisdom (better Will saves and Spot) and better Bluff (which you don't have to slot - good luck finding a bluff +15 augment) at the cost of another Improved Deception. Hmmm... the latter is probably better, but I just might go with the former anyway just because.

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