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  1. #141
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Another perk is Radiance for blinding mobs, which should proc fairly regularly with Keen Edge + IC:Pierce (15-20).
    For this build I would consider radiance more of a party buff since the miss chance from blindness is typed as concealment, which is the same type as displacement and this build should have displacement active pretty much all the time. This build also doesn't do a lot of sneak attack damage, so I wouldn't consider the blindness to be much of a dps boost in that sense. But if the rest of the group does not have access to displacement, or does a lot of sneak attack damage, then radiance would have good value.

    Quote Originally Posted by kendo View Post
    if I do go with 2 melee weapons from CitW, any suggestions on a different bow to use? looking at possible named items, the only ones that look decent and I might be able to craft or get my hands on would be - road watch, greensteel or elemental longbow of earth. unless there are really good loot gen combinations on bows, have never really looked for bows on the AH
    Here is the wiki link for named longbows. I'm not very familiar with other bows beyond Pinion, so others can probably provide you with better options. The one thing in common with other bows I have heard talked about is that they have an expanded crit range. The easiest to acquire are the Bow of Sinew from the Harbinger of Madness chain and the Silver Longbow from The Church and the Cult. Both have an inherent 19-20x3 crit profile, and the Bow of Sinew has an additional multiplier on 19-20 only for a total of x4. The Silver Longbow is BtCoE so you can get it on the AH, while the Bow of Sinew is BtA. There is also the Epic Thornlord and Unwavering Ardency, both of which are raid loot, so not nearly as easy to acquire. That's the most I can tell you. Perhaps others who have more experience with bows can offer other options.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  2. #142
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    A couple of questions

    1 - these days, other than undead, what would be the good 2nd FE for epic/end-game play? (Planning to hit the TF raids hard as well as MOD and epic necro.. Also some gianthold/FoT for a few more commendations of heroism but that will be a secondary priority)

    2 - how do you think this build compares to all the new u23 paladin heavy builds? Still competitive?

  3. #143
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    1 - these days, other than undead, what would be the good 2nd FE for epic/end-game play? (Planning to hit the TF raids hard as well as MOD and epic necro.. Also some gianthold/FoT for a few more commendations of heroism but that will be a secondary priority)
    I'd probably go with either dragon or giant for that content.

    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    2 - how do you think this build compares to all the new u23 paladin heavy builds? Still competitive?
    I'm not currently playing this build. I TRed the character into my bard just because he had all the gear I wanted already and I didn't feel like grinding gear for yet another character. So I can't say for certain. I can say that my bard is a more well rounded build with comparable melee dps and defenses, but great CC and instakill ability. Santa's Slayer of course has the advantage of furyshot, to which nothing else compares. I've only dabbled in paladin for a few of the early levels, so no real experience to compare there. I see no reason why this build would not be viable in the current game, however.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  4. #144
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    As an FYI - I TR'd into this build. I'm currently at cap but plan to run through a few Epic PLs to get 2 additional martial past lives for 9% doublestrike (currently have 1 martial PL and have one primal). Epic Hard (pretty much soling everything except raids) is a breeze, haven't really tried any epic elite yet (actually, I did try impossible demands but by mistake pulled all the guys on that first room at the same time.. I also didn't have all the right buffs/destinies going on.. that made for a quick death). My main focus now (other than the martial past lives) is working through the raids to get my TF to tier 3 and get some of the raid gear (my current gear set is close to what you had on before you did the u23 update). Also doing the necro quest chain to get some of that loot. Having LOTS of fun with it.

    I'm also on Sarlona. Name is Maack.

  5. #145
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    As an FYI - I TR'd into this build. I'm currently at cap but plan to run through a few Epic PLs to get 2 additional martial past lives for 9% doublestrike (currently have 1 martial PL and have one primal). Epic Hard (pretty much soling everything except raids) is a breeze, haven't really tried any epic elite yet (actually, I did try impossible demands but by mistake pulled all the guys on that first room at the same time.. I also didn't have all the right buffs/destinies going on.. that made for a quick death). My main focus now (other than the martial past lives) is working through the raids to get my TF to tier 3 and get some of the raid gear (my current gear set is close to what you had on before you did the u23 update). Also doing the necro quest chain to get some of that loot. Having LOTS of fun with it.

    I'm also on Sarlona. Name is Maack.
    Nice. I'd be grateful for any feedback you have about the build in the current state of the game. Experience is different than theory and since I'm no longer playing this build, I lack the experience of it in the current game. So anything you can provide to help keep it up to date would be much appreciated.

    I just got my paladin (Gardiun) to 20 tonight, so I'll keep an eye out for you as I move into epics.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Nice. I'd be grateful for any feedback you have about the build in the current state of the game.
    Will do.

    I'm actually planning on my 2nd Epic TR now (only have the 1 martial one for now). Need it to be something other than martial (I haven't rebuilt the karma on martial yet.. will do as I level up after this ETR).. and trying to decide between Colors of the Queen or Brace. While having a boost to saves and PRR (albeit small) would be nice.. I'm tempted to go with Colors because it sounds like it could be just plain fun.

  7. #147
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    I'm tempted to go with Colors because it sounds like it could be just plain fun.
    Fun is exactly how I would describe it. Nothing like a pork barrel to liven up a raid.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  8. #148

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    Hi Cthru, this build came up in a discussion with another player who posted a similar split. I suggested an update to this build idea that would lose some of the ranged strength in favor of PRR and melee damage:

    Elven dragonmarked kensei 12 fighter/6 monk/2 wiz that uses the wizard bonus feat for extend, extending the elven dragonmark of displacement. With monk earth stance and iron skin you get 30 PRR; take Combat expertise and use LD's ICE (20 PRR); add the 25 PRR from Defender, 10 PRR EK's improved shield (85 PRR total before gear)
    and this includes evasion, incorp and displacement (the latter sans clickies) along with a weapon crit profile of 15-20/3 (keen edge and khopeshes) buffed with kensei clickies and especially fist of iron & earth finisher. Wand and Scroll mastery also cheap in EK tree for nice heal scroll hits.

    What do you think?
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  9. #149
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Hi Cthru, this build came up in a discussion with another player who posted a similar split. I suggested an update to this build idea that would lose some of the ranged strength in favor of PRR and melee damage:

    Elven dragonmarked kensei 12 fighter/6 monk/2 wiz that uses the wizard bonus feat for extend, extending the elven dragonmark of displacement. With monk earth stance and iron skin you get 30 PRR; take Combat expertise and use LD's ICE (20 PRR); add the 25 PRR from Defender, 10 PRR EK's improved shield (85 PRR total before gear)
    and this includes evasion, incorp and displacement (the latter sans clickies) along with a weapon crit profile of 15-20/3 (keen edge and khopeshes) buffed with kensei clickies and especially fist of iron & earth finisher. Wand and Scroll mastery also cheap in EK tree for nice heal scroll hits.

    What do you think?
    You're really looking at a completely different build, which isn't a bad thing necessarily, as this build is definitely outdated.

    You lose a lot more than just some ranged strength by dropping ranger. You lose 3 ranged feats (rapid shot, precise shot, and manyshot) and 2 melee feats (twf and itwf). However, you gain 2 feats from fighter 10 and 12, plus 1 more from wiz 1. So you're down 2 feats overall. Then there's the 10% offhand attacks from tempest core 2 as well as 1 damage from whirling blades. The build also uses dex for to hit and damage with both melee and ranged weapons, and since earth stance has a -2 dex penalty, that's a loss of 1 more damage. If you want to use improved combat expertise, then there would be no need for precision, which means losing more damage against mobs with fortification. You'd also need to 13 int to get combat expertise, which may require readjusting starting stats.

    The next problem concerns AP. To use dex for melee and ranged to hit and damage, you need a minimum of 19 AP in the elf tree. One with the blade is 33 minimum in kensai. So you could shave off 1 AP from each of those trees. Then you need a minimum of 11 AP in ninja spy for shadow veil. Sting of the ninja was solid when I first created this build, but mobs die pretty quickly nowadays, so it's probably fine to drop it. So there's another 2 AP. You need to spend 5 AP in shintao to access iron skin, and the OP already has 7 spent for deft strikes. You could drop 2 points from there for the minimum to access iron skin, but then you're losing more melee dps. Plus the 6 from tempest, that leaves you with 10 AP total to spend (assuming you keep deft strikes at rank 3). Iron skin will cost you 6 AP, but that only leaves you with 4 AP. Improved shield from eldritch knight is a minimum of 8 AP and defender stance is a minimum of 6 AP, neither of which you have.

    To make it work, you could drop ninja spy altogether and you'd end up with a total of 21 AP to spend. 6 of that would go to iron skin, 8 to improved shield, and 6 to defender stance, leaving you with 1 AP to spend. You lose 25% incorp but gain 85 PRR (including improved combat expertise). That brings you up to a total of 121 PRR or 55.75% damage reduction, which is up from the 26.47% currently listed in the OP. You could also drop the elf tree altogether and rely on displacement clickies, or maybe even splash 6 wiz for the archmage displacement SLA. But then you can't rely on dex for to hit and damage, so you need to invest in another stat, probably str, or possibly int through harper. Alternatively, you could keep the displacement dragonmark line (12 AP minimum), freeing up 8 AP from elf for a total of 18 to spend between iron skin, improved shield, and defender stance, but that's not quite enough and then you lose some dps from the elf weapon training line as well as some doublestrike, doubleshot, and dodge and again face the problem of which stat to use for both melee and ranged to hit and damage (it's also worth mentioning that dropping ranger means you don't get bow strength, so using str becomes problematic).

    So overall, the changes you suggest really change the whole nature of the build, but admittedly there are much better options out there today. When I first created this build, before the enhancement passes began, my intention was to take full advantage of the largest crit profile I could achieve at that time (dual wielding Balizardes with keen edge). Today, however, any melee build worth its weight has a crit profile like this one does (and if it doesn't, then you're doing it wrong). Also, damage mitigation is arguably more valuable in today's game than damage avoidance. So the extreme damage avoidance this build had (which is also outdated, my rogue has 81% total damage avoidance, not to mention higher damage mitigation and melee dps) isn't worth as much as it was when this build was first created.

    The build you propose seems like it would trade both melee and ranged dps for damage mitigation. I think it would certainly be viable, although there's a lot of details to be worked out. But I wouldn't really consider it to be an update to this one, so much as something entirely different, and probably more suited to the current game tbh.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    You're really looking at a completely different build, which isn't a bad thing necessarily, as this build is definitely outdated.

    You lose a lot more than just some ranged strength by dropping ranger. You lose 3 ranged feats (rapid shot, precise shot, and manyshot) and 2 melee feats (twf and itwf). However, you gain 2 feats from fighter 10 and 12, plus 1 more from wiz 1. So you're down 2 feats overall. Then there's the 10% offhand attacks from tempest core 2 as well as 1 damage from whirling blades. The build also uses dex for to hit and damage with both melee and ranged weapons, and since earth stance has a -2 dex penalty, that's a loss of 1 more damage. If you want to use improved combat expertise, then there would be no need for precision, which means losing more damage against mobs with fortification. You'd also need to 13 int to get combat expertise, which may require readjusting starting stats.

    The next problem concerns AP. To use dex for melee and ranged to hit and damage, you need a minimum of 19 AP in the elf tree. One with the blade is 33 minimum in kensai. So you could shave off 1 AP from each of those trees. Then you need a minimum of 11 AP in ninja spy for shadow veil. Sting of the ninja was solid when I first created this build, but mobs die pretty quickly nowadays, so it's probably fine to drop it. So there's another 2 AP. You need to spend 5 AP in shintao to access iron skin, and the OP already has 7 spent for deft strikes. You could drop 2 points from there for the minimum to access iron skin, but then you're losing more melee dps. Plus the 6 from tempest, that leaves you with 10 AP total to spend (assuming you keep deft strikes at rank 3). Iron skin will cost you 6 AP, but that only leaves you with 4 AP. Improved shield from eldritch knight is a minimum of 8 AP and defender stance is a minimum of 6 AP, neither of which you have.

    To make it work, you could drop ninja spy altogether and you'd end up with a total of 21 AP to spend. 6 of that would go to iron skin, 8 to improved shield, and 6 to defender stance, leaving you with 1 AP to spend. You lose 25% incorp but gain 85 PRR (including improved combat expertise). That brings you up to a total of 121 PRR or 55.75% damage reduction, which is up from the 26.47% currently listed in the OP. You could also drop the elf tree altogether and rely on displacement clickies, or maybe even splash 6 wiz for the archmage displacement SLA. But then you can't rely on dex for to hit and damage, so you need to invest in another stat, probably str, or possibly int through harper. Alternatively, you could keep the displacement dragonmark line (12 AP minimum), freeing up 8 AP from elf for a total of 18 to spend between iron skin, improved shield, and defender stance, but that's not quite enough and then you lose some dps from the elf weapon training line as well as some doublestrike, doubleshot, and dodge and again face the problem of which stat to use for both melee and ranged to hit and damage (it's also worth mentioning that dropping ranger means you don't get bow strength, so using str becomes problematic).

    So overall, the changes you suggest really change the whole nature of the build, but admittedly there are much better options out there today. When I first created this build, before the enhancement passes began, my intention was to take full advantage of the largest crit profile I could achieve at that time (dual wielding Balizardes with keen edge). Today, however, any melee build worth its weight has a crit profile like this one does (and if it doesn't, then you're doing it wrong). Also, damage mitigation is arguably more valuable in today's game than damage avoidance. So the extreme damage avoidance this build had (which is also outdated, my rogue has 81% total damage avoidance, not to mention higher damage mitigation and melee dps) isn't worth as much as it was when this build was first created.

    The build you propose seems like it would trade both melee and ranged dps for damage mitigation. I think it would certainly be viable, although there's a lot of details to be worked out. But I wouldn't really consider it to be an update to this one, so much as something entirely different, and probably more suited to the current game tbh.
    great points and thanks. I wasn't thinking dex for damage due to the psionic boost from kensei for Str, but yeah it really starts shifting away from your elfin slayer.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links. LONG LIVE STEALTH!
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    Decreased playtime since update 55 (Summer 2022) as I will not play the level cap increase



  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    NOTE: I will no longer be updating this build. Due to various game changes, the centered kensai is now outclassed by a variety of other options. Although I'm sure the build will still perform well, similar goals can be met by other builds/classes with less effort. I will be happy to continue to answer questions for those who are still interested in this build.

    Edit: Removed build to reduce size of post]

    Gear aside, and getting centered by 15, what do you recommend to revive this? I was making one on paper, but you already have the leg work done.

  12. #152
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian69 View Post
    Gear aside, and getting centered by 15, what do you recommend to revive this? I was making one on paper, but you already have the leg work done.
    I've actually been thinking about this build a lot lately as I've been considering weaponized monks. They got the worst of the monk pass and are still best heavily multiclassed.

    This build will actually work fine as currently listed in the OP. For the same reasons as before, I would keep the leveling progression as is. You will actually be centered with rapiers at level 14.

    I would also keep feats mostly as is. I might consider doubleshot instead of elusive target at level 28. For level 29, elusive target, deific warding, dire charge, or harbinger of chaos depending on whether you want damage avoidance, damage mitigation, CC, or dps. For the legendary feat, as a dex based build, this is a great choice for scion of the ethereal plane, but you'll want to invest in hide for that. So invest all points from balance and spot into hide, maybe even invest a couple starting build points into int for some extra skill points to max it out. Alternatively, I'd consider arborea or earth. For the level 30 regular feat, I'd move combat archery there and take epic damage reduction at level 27, but I tend to emphasize melee over ranged. You could swap them if you prefer to focus on ranged.

    Some enhancements and costs have changed. You can get dex to hit and damage from ninja spy cores 1 and 2, so you can drop tier 4 elven grace. I'd also probably drop elven dex. Deft strikes is now 1 AP per rank. So you have a little more wiggle room with the enhancements, but not much really. I probably wouldn't take ninja poison anymore because there are much better ways to spend your points now.

    You'll still want a minimum of 12 in elf for the dragonmark line, but 18 is also a good investment for the full weapon line and tier 4 skill (doublestrike, dodge, etc.). You want a minimum of 32 in kensai for crit range and centered weapons, but up to 35 for the other tier 5s is also a good investment. A minimum of 11 in ninja spy for the first 3 cores. 4 in shintao for deft strikes, 8 total for iron skin is also a good choice. It's probably a no-brainer to spend 1 AP in henshin for 10 melee power. 6 in tempest still gets you another 10% offhand. Deepwood stalker cores grant 1 sneak attack die, and core 3 exposing strike would certainly be nice, especially if you take scion of the ethereal plane. So there are some more options with enhancements. Once you've got the minimums mentioned above, I don't think there's an optimal way to spend the rest. It's more about how you want to customize it at that point.

    If I ever get around to it, I may play this build again. It was a lot of fun and should only be stronger now.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I've actually been thinking about this build a lot lately as I've been considering weaponized monks. They got the worst of the monk pass and are still best heavily multiclassed.

    This build will actually work fine as currently listed in the OP. For the same reasons as before, I would keep the leveling progression as is. You will actually be centered with rapiers at level 14.

    I would also keep feats mostly as is. I might consider doubleshot instead of elusive target at level 28. For level 29, elusive target, deific warding, dire charge, or harbinger of chaos depending on whether you want damage avoidance, damage mitigation, CC, or dps. For the legendary feat, as a dex based build, this is a great choice for scion of the ethereal plane, but you'll want to invest in hide for that. So invest all points from balance and spot into hide, maybe even invest a couple starting build points into int for some extra skill points to max it out. Alternatively, I'd consider arborea or earth. For the level 30 regular feat, I'd move combat archery there and take epic damage reduction at level 27, but I tend to emphasize melee over ranged. You could swap them if you prefer to focus on ranged.

    Some enhancements and costs have changed. You can get dex to hit and damage from ninja spy cores 1 and 2, so you can drop tier 4 elven grace. I'd also probably drop elven dex. Deft strikes is now 1 AP per rank. So you have a little more wiggle room with the enhancements, but not much really. I probably wouldn't take ninja poison anymore because there are much better ways to spend your points now.

    You'll still want a minimum of 12 in elf for the dragonmark line, but 18 is also a good investment for the full weapon line and tier 4 skill (doublestrike, dodge, etc.). You want a minimum of 32 in kensai for crit range and centered weapons, but up to 35 for the other tier 5s is also a good investment. A minimum of 11 in ninja spy for the first 3 cores. 4 in shintao for deft strikes, 8 total for iron skin is also a good choice. It's probably a no-brainer to spend 1 AP in henshin for 10 melee power. 6 in tempest still gets you another 10% offhand. Deepwood stalker cores grant 1 sneak attack die, and core 3 exposing strike would certainly be nice, especially if you take scion of the ethereal plane. So there are some more options with enhancements. Once you've got the minimums mentioned above, I don't think there's an optimal way to spend the rest. It's more about how you want to customize it at that point.

    If I ever get around to it, I may play this build again. It was a lot of fun and should only be stronger now.

    Thanks for the input. I think I may switch rapiers for scims (I seem to only use scim or khops). I don't know if DM line is as useful as it was in this build's day. At least I have the gear to cover keep fully displaced following level 12, so I will drop that at 12 and probably pick up melee power from Henshin, 20 or 30 melee power has got to come out ahead of grace. I will have 7 racial AP I run this, so I'll probably invest that into 1 dex and +2 dmg from weapon's line. I could swap DM for khops since I can do dex to dmg w/ them, which I may since all of my LGS is Khops. However, that leaves 2-3 racial AP open I don't know what I'll with since I'd pick up one more dex that way. Only downside to running dex is having to switch to sun stance and Jidz Tet'ka in when I need bigger heals.

  14. #154
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    You'll still want a minimum of 12 in elf for the dragonmark line, but 18 is also a good investment for the full weapon line and tier 4 skill (doublestrike, dodge, etc.). You want a minimum of 32 in kensai for crit range and centered weapons, but up to 35 for the other tier 5s is also a good investment. A minimum of 11 in ninja spy for the first 3 cores. 4 in shintao for deft strikes, 8 total for iron skin is also a good choice. It's probably a no-brainer to spend 1 AP in henshin for 10 melee power. 6 in tempest still gets you another 10% offhand. Deepwood stalker cores grant 1 sneak attack die, and core 3 exposing strike would certainly be nice, especially if you take scion of the ethereal plane.
    With a mere 30 racial PLs, you could do 12 elf (Gtr Shadow) / 33 Kensei (add Weapon Master) / 6 SD (defensive stance) / 8 Shintao (Iron Skin) / 11 Ninja (Shadow Veil) / 6 Henshin (+20 MP) / 6 Tempest (+10% offhand) / 8 Harper (KtA). 30 TRs is NBD right?!
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  15. #155
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian69 View Post
    I think I may switch rapiers for scims (I seem to only use scim or khops).
    The scimitar line in elf affects shortbows, but not longbows, so there is less synergy there. Not a big deal if you intend to emphasize melee more than ranged though, and especially not if you plan to switch to khopesh later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrian69 View Post
    I don't know if DM line is as useful as it was in this build's day. At least I have the gear to cover keep fully displaced following level 12, so I will drop that at 12
    Well, the dragonmark line is as useful (or useless) today as it was back then. If you have the GS clickies, then you really don't need it. I did not have them on this character at the time, which was part of my motivation for making this build.

    And if you aren't going to use the dragonmark line, then you're really negating one of this build's primary goals. I think this build is still really strong in both TWF and ranged, so it's a good class split for a weaponized monk, but not taking both the dragonmark or the elf line basically negates the need to go elf. Human for the extra feat and heal amp is always a good choice. Or you might be better off with a different centered kensai or multiclassed weaponized monk altogether.

    Tempest is actually a really strong tree for TWF and you can get both the crit multiplier and crit range from tempest and deepwood stalker core 4s, negating the need to take them from kensai. This would basically limit you to short swords to stay centered though. I haven't worked out all the details, but it's another idea I've considered.

    Then there's also a centered kensai Silvanus maul build. Again, not something I've worked out the details for, but it sounds interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrian69 View Post
    Only downside to running dex is having to switch to sun stance and Jidz Tet'ka in when I need bigger heals.
    I don't see this as a problem tbh. I'm currently running a wis/dex based unarmed shintao monk in fire stance for the heal amp bonus and easy to build ki.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    30 TRs is NBD right?!
    Sure, everybody's doing it.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    With a mere 30 racial PLs, you could do 12 elf (Gtr Shadow) / 33 Kensei (add Weapon Master) / 6 SD (defensive stance) / 8 Shintao (Iron Skin) / 11 Ninja (Shadow Veil) / 6 Henshin (+20 MP) / 6 Tempest (+10% offhand) / 8 Harper (KtA). 30 TRs is NBD right?!

    I went to put this split in planner, but googled it first, and this build came up.

    Yeah, this is going to be one of my elf PLs, and probably Halfling PL too. I am taking every first racial life into epics to farm out 60 Tokens and finish my last 5 ETRs and get a couple of runs of the new raid in. I'm on dwarf 1 and doing 9 monk 8 ftr 3 rogue. Beside from the elf line and tempest stuff, that's pretty much my AP spread I am going w/ on all builds, with exceptions that I love A Good Death, especially soloing. My TR mate and I are taking turns trapping, however, as melee focused as I am, I miss manyshot. As much as I'd prefer to be pure ranger, monk helps with reaper with a focus on avoidance and mitigation earlier on. 60+ PRR and 20+% dodge by level 8 just keeps everything moving along.

    I have thought about 12 ranger 5 ftr 3 monk, but the issue with that is if you want DoD you're stuck w/ short swords and you lose Shadow Veil. Could use a set of EE Forester's and eat shadow cookies.

    Has anyone completed 30 racial TR yet?

  17. #157
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    I’m getting back in the game... my character ran in this build for a while and enjoyed it. Currently a pure dex based ranger (human.. I have tons of displacement clickies) but I have a +20 heart of wood I could use if needed (don’t feel like doing a TR right now).

    I want to stay to weapon based TWF. I’m debating whether staying pure ranger or going back to a version of this (except human as I’d be doing an LR). Wanted to get a feel from you folks as to what your take is on this?

    What has me thinking about this is mostly that I’m thinking after I’m done gathering all the new gear, I’ll likely stay at cap and may like to focus on mid to high level reapers. While I hate losing some of the outstanding DPS of a pure ranger, I should get more survivability out of this mix (?).

    What are some thoughts or recommendations about the trade offs between pure tempest (dex based scimitar) and perhaps a version of this build (khopesh - dex based). Am I looking at a significant DPS drop (I think while I lose a lot I also gain other DPS impacts.. but perhaps the loss of full offhand damage makes a huge difference)? Significant survivability gain (more dodge, shadow veil.. not sure if PRR/MRR stays about same or drops)?
    Last edited by RS-Makk; 01-16-2018 at 07:27 PM.

  18. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    I’m getting back in the game... my character ran in this build for a while and enjoyed it. Currently a pure dex based ranger (human.. I have tons of displacement clickies) but I have a +20 heart of wood I could use if needed (don’t feel like doing a TR right now).

    I want to stay to weapon based TWF. I’m debating whether staying pure ranger or going back to a version of this (except human as I’d be doing an LR). Wanted to get a feel from you folks as to what your take is on this?

    What has me thinking about this is mostly that I’m thinking after I’m done gathering all the new gear, I’ll likely stay at cap and may like to focus on mid to high level reapers. While I hate losing some of the outstanding DPS of a pure ranger, I should get more survivability out of this mix (?).

    What are some thoughts or recommendations about the trade offs between pure tempest (dex based scimitar) and perhaps a version of this build (khopesh - dex based). Am I looking at a significant DPS drop (I think while I lose a lot I also gain other DPS impacts.. but perhaps the loss of full offhand damage makes a huge difference)? Significant survivability gain (more dodge, shadow veil.. not sure if PRR/MRR stays about same or drops)?
    Welcome back.

    Pure Tempest ranger strength (khops, scims, or rapiers) or Dex (Scims) are probably the highest DPS single target and AoE pure class. Dex, being more survivable, DPS isn't that far below strength. In fact, it may come out of ahead wearing Silent Avenger's set from Ravenloft.

    This build is built around the Elf racials and though it's a decent build, great in it's day, it's behind a pure ranger. It also will not be the same as human. If you're wanting a dex based Khopesh build, I'd advise you to look at a 12 Kensei 6 monk builds. High damage and great survivability. Paladin (saves) or FvS (bonus to damage from wisdom) would be the best option for the third class, but since you'd need another +3 to do that, you could always start out 2 ranger for bow str/TWF/Rapid Shot, and pick up Point Blank Shot and Manyshot for some ranged burst option if you wanted too later. Or just focus DPS. If you choses this options since you're already 20+ or close it seems and have a +20, go

    2 ranger/6 monk/12 ftr. Not sure what your tomes are, so I'll plan for none on 34 pt build. I certainly wouldn't level or build this way, so please let me know of where you're at if you're not comfortable enough to change it up if you decide to go this route. I also have a Human 8 ftr 6 Rng 6 Monk here. Not sure I like it as much as a pure ranger or a 12/6 split.

    There's 3 routes with feats. Manyshot path, Shuriken Option Path, or just melee path. Whichever you'd prefer. Manyshot is just burst damage for brief periods. Shuriken do more more DPS over a longer period of time.

    New Build
    12/6/2 Fighter/Monk/Ranger
    Lawful Neutral Human


    Level Order

    1. Ranger. . . . . 6. Monk . . . . . 11. Fighter. . . . 16. Fighter
    2. Ranger. . . . . 7. Monk . . . . . 12. Fighter. . . . 17. Fighter
    3. Monk. . . . . . 8. Monk . . . . . 13. Fighter. . . . 18. Fighter
    4. Monk. . . . . . 9. Fighter . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
    5. Monk. . . . . .10. Fighter . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Fighter



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 12. . . .13 . . . 4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 18. . . .18 . . . 8: DEX
    Constitution. . 15. . . .15 . . .12: DEX
    Intelligence. . 13. . . .14 . . .16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .9. . . . 9 . . .20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX


    Skills
    . . . . . R .R. M .M. M .M. M .M. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
    . . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Hide. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. 20
    UMD . . . 2 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .12 .2. 5 .3. 5 .3. 5 .3. 5. 4. 5. 4. 5. 4. 5. 4. 5. 4. 5. 4
    . . . . .36 .9. 7 .7. 7 .7. 7 .7. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .1 Human. : Cleave
    .3. . . . : Point Blank Shot OR Completionist
    .3 Monk . : Dodge
    .4 Monk . : Mobility
    .6. . . . : Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
    .8 Monk . : Precision OR Ten Thousand Stars
    .9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    .9 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
    10 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
    12. . . . : Master of Forms
    12 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    14 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    15. . . . : Manyshot OR Shuriken Expertise
    16 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
    18. . . . : Grandmaster of Forms
    18 Fighter: Great Cleave
    20 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Deflect Arrows
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
    28 Destiny: Elusive Target
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Harbinger of Chaos
    30 Epic . : Past Life: Rogue OR Precise Shot OR Two Weapon Defense
    30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane

    .5 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance

    .1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Kensei (33 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
      1. Extra Action Boost II, Weapon Group Specialization, Exotic Weapon Mastery, Haste Boost III
      2. Weapon Group Specialization
      3. Weapon Group Specialization, Dexterity
      4. Opportunity Attack, Weapon Group Specialization, Liquid Courage, Strike at the Heart, Dexterity
      5. Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Keen Edge

    Ninja Spy (13 AP)
    • Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
      1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic II
      2. Sneak Attack Training, Knock on the Sky
      3. Sting of the Ninja

    Henshin Mystic (12 AP)
    • Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff
      1. Static Charge, Mystic Training I, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
      2. Knock on the Sky, Contemplation III

    Shintao (8 AP)
    • Bastion of Purity
      1. Difficulty at the Beginning, Deft Strikes III
      2. Iron Skin III

    Harper Agent (8 AP)
    • Agent of Good I
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III

    Stalwart Defender (6 AP)
    • Toughness, Stalwart Defense
      1. Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery I


    Destiny (24 AP)

    Legendary Dreadnought
    1. Legendary Tactics II, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
    2. Constitution
    3. Critical Damage III, Constitution
    4. Constitution
    5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical, Constitution
    6. Master's Blitz

    Twists of Fate (26 fate points)
    1. Symetric Strikes (Tier 4 Primal) or Sense Weakness (Fury of the Wild) fore helpless on Dire Charge and Balanced Attacks
    2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
    3. Dance of Flowers (Tier 1 Flowers)
    4. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
    Last edited by adrian69; 01-17-2018 at 01:52 AM. Reason: add build

  19. #159
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    Sep 2009
    Posts
    968

    Default

    Thanks

    Yes, I’m currently TWF Dex based and would like to stay that way. I’m toying between staying pure ranger (currently I have scimitars, but have been running a bit of Strahd and was considering turning runes in for the raid rapier - however I would need to switch a feat to weapon finesse), or switching to one of the Fighter/monk multiclass you mention (where I would switch to Khopesh and get the raid Khopesh alongside a morninglord Khopesh I have). By the way.. I rarely ever bring out the bow, so I am ok not having much of a ranged option.

    Some more info on my character.. I actually have a few heroic past lives (couple Fighter, one Paladin, one Rogue), and a bunch of epic past lives (enough to unlock 5 slots, 31 points to spread). So I have 36 points, and I also have a full set of +7 tomes (Will upgrade to +8 when those available in the store).

    I’m also pretty well geared. I have enough Ravenloft gear to get me set with both a Silent Avenger set and Adherent of the Mists set, and a Ring of Prowess. Also got enough materials for 1 slavers Item, and my Cannith Craft Level is high enough to craft the other 1-2 open slots for top level stuff. I got it figured out pretty well except struggling to fit in Insightful stunning (on one of the cannith crafter items) without messing other stuff up (likely have to drop ring of prowess if I want to add Insightful stuns). (Was toying with swapping in Dire Charge but DC is about 102 or so without Insightful stuns... which my understanding is that’s not so good?). I also have the Ravenloft outfit I can swap in and keep the same gear set. Don’t have perfect pinnacle yet (using ring of nightfall - although I’m being told the Insightful deadly doesn’t stack with the Know the Angles bonus.. which bums me out).

    A couple of questions on your post.

    What did you mean by not having +3 and thus going ranger for the 2 levels?

    Given the additional info, what would you recommend as far as the extra two levels and thus feats? What would I use for ranged attack? (Shuriken or still bows?)

    Lastly.. is the DPS loss significant from pure ranger to one of these? Or will it still be top DPS, just not as much as pure ranger?

    Thanks
    Last edited by RS-Makk; 01-21-2018 at 10:41 PM.

  20. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    Thanks

    Yes, I’m currently TWF Dex based and would like to stay that way. I’m toying between staying pure ranger (currently I have scimitars, but have been running a bit of Strahd and was considering turning runes in for the raid rapier - however I would need to switch a feat to weapon finesse), or switching to one of the Fighter/monk multiclass you mention (where I would switch to Khopesh and get the raid Khopesh alongside a morninglord Khopesh I have). By the way.. I rarely ever bring out the bow, so I am ok not having much of a ranged option.

    Some more info on my character.. I actually have a few heroic past lives (couple Fighter, one Paladin, one Rogue), and a bunch of epic past lives (enough to unlock 5 slots, 31 points to spread). So I have 36 points, and I also have a full set of +7 tomes (Will upgrade to +8 when those available in the store).

    I’m also pretty well geared. I have enough Ravenloft gear to get me set with both a Silent Avenger set and Adherent of the Mists set, and a Ring of Prowess. Also got enough materials for 1 slavers Item, and my Cannith Craft Level is high enough to craft the other 1-2 open slots for top level stuff. I got it figured out pretty well except struggling to fit in Insightful stunning (on one of the cannith crafter items) without messing other stuff up (likely have to drop ring of prowess if I want to add Insightful stuns). (Was toying with swapping in Dire Charge but DC is about 102 or so without Insightful stuns... which my understanding is that’s not so good?). I also have the Ravenloft outfit I can swap in and keep the same gear set. Don’t have perfect pinnacle yet (using ring of nightfall - although I’m being told the Insightful deadly doesn’t stack with the Know the Angles bonus.. which bums me out). Correct, but it does stack with quality deadly if you can find a source of that to squeeze in. Another way to look at it is on a pure ranger and not using Dire Charge is you can go for Hunter's Mark. Hunter's Mark by my experience is better until you have 46 intel (+8 damage) anyway. 102 Dire Charge is about no fail outside shroud and Reaper1-4 in most content atm. I think you need a little over 120 in EE Shroud for no fail. I think the most I've gotten it too was 108. Saw it fail once in Black and Blue that I recall. I know I was soloing R2 Grim and Barrett and Illusionary Larcener with 98-102 on my Aasimar Dex Ranger run a few weeks back and did fine.

    A couple of questions on your post.

    What did you mean by not having +3 and thus going ranger for the 2 levels? I meant a +1 Heart to get rid of the ranger level. I was in the middle of +3 LRing 2 Arty levels out of my fighter when I was typing this. Sorry.



    Given the additional info, what would you recommend as far as the extra two levels and thus feats? What would I use for ranged attack? (Shuriken or still bows?) If you don't want to LR the ranger level out, don't worry about it. I think if you're as geared as you are you'll be fine. It's up to you really. 2 Paladin is +8 saves. +2 FvS is for Divine Knowledge from Warsoul, using Wisdom to for Insightful Damage vs. Intel. It would allow for larger Aasimar Healing Hands and give you 4 AP to spend elsewhere. Less Skill Points though

    Honestly, Manyshot burst is nice in cases, but shuriken expertise is less feats and is ok for just those times when you need to range a trash mob quickly due to 3-5 procs a throw. I really like both.


    Lastly.. is the DPS loss significant from pure ranger to one of these? Or will it still be top DPS, just not as much as pure ranger?DPS is pretty similar. I find survivability to be similar though many prefer robes, or claim robes are (numbers give it to 6 monk with max dodge). Rangers will clear trash a little faster with DoD+Exposing Strike vs. Kensei Fighter downing bosses faster from their massive crits.

    Thanks
    Answers in Red by Questions.

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