Soza: Heal and Crowd Control Bard - Feedback Please

[BoBoDaClown]

***UPDATED***

A bit of background: This has always been my main character, regardless the state of CC or Bards in the game. She was totally viable, without any past lives, up to the cap of 25; I then decided to get 3 wizard past lives under my belt.

I did not level this build in heroic, where CC and Healing are unnecessary most of the time (I LRed at 20).

This character either CCs or Heals for the group; if neither are needed in any given group, I'll switch to another Bard for that quest.

Note: with this update of the build, I have included some aspirational gear, that I don't yet have, such as thunder-forged, so the enchant DCs are one lower, until I get this gear.

The build:
Soza
Drow
20 Bard Spellsinger

Str: 8 (+3 tome)
Dex: 10 (+3 tome)
Con: 16 (+3 tome)
Int: 10 (+2 tome)
Wis: 8 (+3 tome)
Cha: 20 (+5 tome)

Skills: Balance, Concentration, Haggle, Perform, UMD, Heal

Feats (order doesn't matter):
1: Empower Heal
3: Quicken
6: Heighten
9: Spell focus
12: Greater Spell Focus
15: Wizzy Pastlife
18: Bard Pastlife
21: Inspire Excellence
24: Spell Penetration
27: Spell Penetration
26: Lasting Inspiration
28: Forced Escape
30: Will take Epic Spell Pen

KEY ENHANCEMENTS

DROW
+2 Cha, +1 Enchant DC

SPELLSINGER
Sewers, Dead, Makers
Virtuoso
Master of Life and Death (2 cha, Heal, Wail)
Magical Training (SP)
Lingering Songs
Wand/Scroll Heightening and Mastery 3
Marigold (+1 enchant)
Enthrallment
Spellsong Trance
2x Charisma
Sustaining Song
Spell Pen 3
Song of Arcane Might
Song of Capering
Adv Magical Studies 3 (SP)
Spellsong Vigor
Prodigy 3 (+2 enchant +2 spell pen, SP proc)

WARCHANTER
+20hp, +2 dam song, 36 pos spell power, +2 cha

EXALTED ANGEL (lacks spell pen in base ranks for bards)
Angelic Presence =+2 Cha
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds SLA
Soundburst SLA
Charisma 6
Leap of Faith
Spell Pen 3

FATESINGER
Base ranks= +7 spell levels for spell pen, +1 cha
+6 Charisma
Siren Song and Bound Fate (Mez + Debuffs)
Arcane Echo +2 Spell Pen or
Divine Echo +1 Cha, +25 spell power
Clarity (5% sp reduction)

POSSIBLE TWISTS:
-Cacoon
+3 Spell Pen Draconic
+3 Spell Pen Magister
+3 DC Magister
Soundburst SLA
Charisma

Notable Gear:
Thunderforged =+6 Enchant DC (need to gun for this)
+11 Charisma Item
Devotion/Healing Lore Item
+1 Exceptional Cha
+3 Insightful Cha
+7 Spell Penetration (Thunder-forged - gonna be what I run for now)
+1 Litany

I can then tweak Spell Pen Feats, DC Feats, Twists etc, to meet the following (note I can't have max Spell Pen and DC at the same time; will change according to current endgame content. At the moment I would go the DC route):

Max Sustainable CHA:
20 base (Drow)
07 levels
05 tome
02 drow enh.
04 SS and WC enh.
02 Master of L&D
06 Exalted Angel
02 Angelic Presence
02 Charisma Twists -------> note, I normally would not run with - I would run with this when I know I need to push the DCs as high as possible
11 Cha Item
03 Insight Item
01 Exceptional Item
01 Litany
02 Yugo
02 Inspire excellence
02 guild ship=

72 cha, normally 70

Max Sustainable DC=
10 base
06 Heighened spell
01 Drow enh
01 Marigold
02 Prodigy
03 Magister Twist
03 Exalted Angel
04 Focus Feats
06 item
01 spellsong
02 augment
30/31 charisma bonus

69/70 DC on Bard Spells

Soundburst SLA = 30/31 cha bonus + 28 levels + 10 = 68/69

Max Sustainable Spell Pen (I don't know if I got these numbers correct - would love someone to check them, if they know)
-Often wouldn't have close to this because I would be in Exalted Angel
-Certainly wouldn't do all those twists unless I really thought I would need them
-currently no room for epic spell pen

20 levels
06 Past lives
04 feats
07 item
05 Enhancements
03 Draconic Twist
03 Magister Twist
03 Exalted Angel Twist
07 Base Fatesinger
02 Arcane Echoes
---------
60 Spell Pen

Standard Build, I think would have:
Enchant DC: 69
Soundsurst: 68
Spell Pen: 50

Two Notes:
-I wouldn't level this build. I would level a pure 20 DPS Healing Bard, then LR
-Amusingly, you can get a workable necro DC for epic Hard, probably around 57

OVERALL BARDNESS
CC = Strong
Heal = Strong
Buff = Strong
DPS = non-existant


Thoughts/Comments would be appreciated!

[Wipey]

With that DCs ( even 62 works very well ) you will make Wheloon and Stormhorns piece of cake except boss fights and parties will love you ( if smart enough to fight those assassins in discos ).
I would think just more focus on defences, dodge, prr and hp on such character.

Props for sticking with "no fotm" build too !

[Ailaesaedol]

I am used to running this toon without a DPS option; however, if I can still hit the DCs necessary and include a DPS option, I am all ears.

Well, its not popular, but the epic moment 'Turn of the tide' might interest you. Full BAB and 40% extra dmg on bosses could be useful if you've got a CHA to hit/dmg weapon. It also gives +4 CHA to your already great DCs for about a minute given all your extend song enhancements.

Chord of disruption would also be very nice on this build given the high CHA you have. I'd probably favour Chord of Disruption over the epic moment given your build and how it averages out to 1,253 damage before spell power and Fatesinger induced vulnerabilities.

But other than that, it looks a super strong and fun build in the right group.

[BoBoDaClown]

Props for sticking with "no fotm" build too !

Cheers

Well, its not popular, but the epic moment 'Turn of the tide' might interest you. Full BAB and 40% extra dmg on bosses could be useful if you've got a CHA to hit/dmg weapon. It also gives +4 CHA to your already great DCs for about a minute given all your extend song enhancements.

Chord of disruption would also be very nice on this build given the high CHA you have. I'd probably favour Chord of Disruption over the epic moment given your build and how it averages out to 1,253 damage before spell power and Fatesinger induced vulnerabilities.

Yeah - I forgot about the +4 cha from Turn of the Tide - could be useful to proc before important fights. I don't like relying on 'spikes' in DC, but a minute or so of enhanced DC might be worth playing around with.

What's the DC of Chord of Disruption?

[Ailaesaedol]

What's the DC of Chord of Disruption?

Hmmm. Thats a good point, I always figured it had something to do with CHA mod, but its not listed at all. I must be thinking of Bound Fate. All it says is a Fort save, but given that it procs at the end of Siren's Song and Sirens Song would reduce any creatures Fort save by 12 at the top tier (2 CON dmg every second for 12 seconds) I think they'd have to roll a 20 to avoid full damage against you.

Im a bit bemused they havent given the formula for the DC though. I cant think of any other destiny ability that hasnt listed it.

[maddong]

I think you would be a lot more well rounded in Draconic. You would go to 29 cha mod right?
But you would have DC 63 energy burst/dragon breath/flyby attack/daunting roar to round out your offense.
Daunting roar kind of acts like mass hold and lets you follow it up with a energy burst +/- dragon breath with helpless damage/nerfed reflex save.

[BoBoDaClown]

I think you would be a lot more well rounded in Draconic. You would go to 29 cha mod right?
But you would have DC 63 energy burst/dragon breath/flyby attack/daunting roar to round out your offense.
Daunting roar kind of acts like mass hold and lets you follow it up with a energy burst +/- dragon breath with helpless damage/nerfed reflex save.

Just ran the numbers again - I think it would be +30 cha bonus.

I was thinking about twisting in daunting roar (that's the mass fear freeze right?) instead of cacoon when not primary healer.

Can fool around in the draconic destiny a bit more to see how your idea pans out - not too fussed about the destinies cos I can switch em around. Good idea to point out.

[BoBoDaClown]

edited numbers a little

[Abcchef]

Quite glad i stumbled across this. Im playing a bard up to epics with the intent of LRing into cc/heals/buffs type of character. Im wondering if you have a rough idea on how to get decent healing and sonic spellpower whilst doing this?

[BoBoDaClown]

Quite glad i stumbled across this. Im playing a bard up to epics with the intent of LRing into cc/heals/buffs type of character. Im wondering if you have a rough idea on how to get decent healing and sonic spellpower whilst doing this?

Personally I find this character more useful when running epic elites - that's why I won't actually level in this build (will respec to it).

It has good Healing (positive power) built into it:
1) Empower Healing (improves all healing spells, including cacoon).
2) You could add maximise - gives your mass cures a nice buff, but doesn't work on cacoon or Heal.
3) Improve your Heal Skill.
4) Have a devotion/healing lore item.
5) Ardor clickies/potions.
6) Enhancements

Sonic spell power, I wouldn't work for since I don't find sonic damage on a bard particularly good, but if you were too:
1) Maximise
2) Empower
3) Perform Skill
4) Resonance Item + sonic lore
5) Cacophony clickies

You can pick up some spell power from your destinies as well.

[khremlajn]

im big fan of diplomacy skill. id drop haggle for it.

play with destinies(problem with fatesinger is that it isnt rly that great for cc bard). As i remember i had high dc in healer one too(and access to great healing skill and some other cool stuff).

[BoBoDaClown]

play with destinies(problem with fatesinger is that it isnt rly that great for cc bard.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think fatesinger offers the highest spell CC potential, because you can pump you charisma and caster level (for spell pen), and twist DC from Magister.

[khremlajn]

thing is, exalted offers same charisma boost.

spell pen isnt needed so far. Thats why exalted is better, since it is boosting your heals, give wings etc.

even if you dont pick that one, you want to twist renewal

[BoBoDaClown]

thing is, exalted offers same charisma boost.

spell pen isnt needed so far. Thats why exalted is better, since it is boosting your heals, give wings etc.

even if you dont pick that one, you want to twist renewal

i
You can pick up an extra cuple of charisma in the fatesinger tree (off memory, 2nd base rank, and one of the echoes)

Spell pen is important when running drow content, but not so much otherwise

Heals are good without exalted, but certainly exalted is an option

[AzB]

Is this toon a completionist? Taking the feat would give you +2 cha. It might be worth giving up spell pen or spell focus positive in order to get the completionist feat. Or go PDK and pick up another feat, cha to damage, but lose 2 dc.

Wow, it's so close to being the perfect bard. I really like it.

I may try this if I ever find another lesser heart in a chest.

[Tilomere]

Maybe twist Pin and Whistler as well as magistar DC. This can add in some instant no-save no-resist manaless CC with a thrown weapon, and Pin gives the party helpless damage bonuses. Plus if you are tossing a debuffing or paralyzing spelltouched shuriken, it will add in even more mana-less CC and make your spells easier to land. I think it is leaving things on the table to only build around heroic and not both heroic and ED CC if you want to do EE content.

[Propane]

Have you looked at a PDK?

LR+1 and go pure Bard - get a little more meele options...

[BoBoDaClown]

Is this toon a completionist? Taking the feat would give you +2 cha. It might be worth giving up spell pen or spell focus positive in order to get the completionist feat. Or go PDK and pick up another feat, cha to damage, but lose 2 dc.

Not a completionist unfortunately; I hate TRing. While the PDK thing is tempting, I'm not willing to sacrifice the primary function of CC or Healing, considering I would also want to pick up some feats to do worthwhile damage. I would consider it a more well rounded build to go for PDK, but this isn't well rounded; I want to go in feeling I have provided the top CC I can. If I find that my DCs are too hgih at some point, I will change to PDK. With no melee option, I would simply avoid taking this character in a party where her CC or Healing is not needed (this has been the case all the years of playing her).

Maybe twist Pin and Whistler as well as magistar DC. This can add in some instant no-save no-resist manaless CC with a thrown weapon, and Pin gives the party helpless damage bonuses. Plus if you are tossing a debuffing or paralyzing spelltouched shuriken, it will add in even more mana-less CC and make your spells easier to land. I think it is leaving things on the table to only build around heroic and not both heroic and ED CC if you want to do EE content.

Some interesting thoughts here - it is a EE only build. Will try out your ideas.

Have you looked at a PDK?
LR+1 and go pure Bard - get a little more meele options...

Look at the response to AzB.

This character is on her final life at the moment. Currently around level 16. Is leveling as a TWF DPS Pure Bard, and will LR at 20 into final EE Build. I hate TRing, and don't have the time for more lives. If I did, I would build in some Sorc past lives for some evo DC, with the changes to Soundburst; that would be fantastic, but I shudder at the thought of more lives.

I will update this build at I go through my 20s, get new equipment etc. I will post my experiences playing around with the different destinies, and how they augment this character.

Thanks for the feedback guys

[cacyreus]

Its really nice to find out someone with similar plans for bard. The build you present here is very similar to the one im designing for my own bard.
looking at some of the critics I have read I must say that this is a caster build for what could be most likely the ultimate support in the game!

Supreme crowd control, because yes if for some reason spell dont work I believe a fascinate with a minimum DC close to 100 will do the job
There is little room for melee, but if that is a concern--> Elyd Edge for the win.

Would love to know if there is a higher level cha weapon, anyone knows?

Healing ability- on heroic is more than enough to solo heal normal raids and to be a second healer on hard or elite. The real challange here is epic content, but I believe it will do fine.

All this comes attached to lots of bard love (buffs).

To people concerned with defenses, high saves can be achieved with gear and greatly improve the survivability-- this I learned from my bard fellow Shyr in Sarlona, before epic destinies and new enhancements but it should be wirth to look at.


Well, back to the lives I so much hate to do: 2 BARD (completed), 3 WIZ (completed), 3 FVS (ongoing) and 3 SORC next on the train, by the time I finish with the past lives everything will have changed!

[cru121]

Would love to know if there is a higher level cha weapon, anyone knows?

http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_weap...#Melee_weapons