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  1. #1
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Default Character Planner - New Interface Ideas

    Hey gang,

    If you were to design a new interface for the Character Planner, what concepts would you put into it? How would you do it?

    We're looking to brainstorm here, there are no wrong ideas... So tell us what you would do.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

  2. #2
    Community Member Potatofasf's Avatar
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    Hey Ron!

    Have you fixed the new Iconics TRs?
    And the problem with no-monks and monk splits with feat selections following the Adept of Forms/Master of Forms/Grandmaster of Forms?
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatofasf
    Have you fixed the new Iconics TRs?
    We have had several fixes to Iconics, you will need to elaborate more on what exactly is broken.
    And the problem with no-monks and monk splits with feat selections following the Adept of Forms/Master of Forms/Grandmaster of Forms?
    This one should be fixed and in the current live version 4.20.01
    Guild: Ghallanda Rerolled
    Artamax - Cleandeath - Cleanup - Dragonbound - Draykon - Gully - Magestic - Tinbucket
    DDO Character Planner (Stable: Version 04.20.02) , Version 04.23.1 - Planner 5.0 Interface Discussion

  4. #4
    Community Member Potatofasf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon.Star View Post
    We have had several fixes to Iconics, you will need to elaborate more on what exactly is broken.
    Uhmmm... The fact that we can't planning a build on Iconics with past lifes. Now with new TR system we could have Iconics with past lifes and Iconic past lifes, but in the planner when we are planning a Iconic character we can't choose how many past lifes we have like when planning no-iconic characters!
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatofasf View Post
    Uhmmm... The fact that we can't planning a build on Iconics with past lifes. Now with new TR system we could have Iconics with past lifes and Iconic past lifes, but in the planner when we are planning a Iconic character we can't choose how many past lifes we have like when planning no-iconic characters!
    With version 5.20.02 you will be able to select Heroic Past lives for Iconics (No timeframe for its release yet). There is a workaround you can use to do it now, just choose a normal Race and select your past lives and then switch to your Iconic Race.

    As for Iconic and Epic Past lives, that is still in the works and scheduled to be added after the Destinies are in place.
    Guild: Ghallanda Rerolled
    Artamax - Cleandeath - Cleanup - Dragonbound - Draykon - Gully - Magestic - Tinbucket
    DDO Character Planner (Stable: Version 04.20.02) , Version 04.23.1 - Planner 5.0 Interface Discussion

  6. #6
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    What about options to NOT start with an iconic's first level?

  7. #7
    Community Member Potatofasf's Avatar
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    Great great to read that will be improved...

    I was exploring the current version 4.20.01 and saw the Destiny option. I tried to use but every time something strange occurred, freezed the screen and shutdown the Planner.
    It is the planner or some incompatibility with Win 7?
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatofasf View Post

    I was exploring the current version 4.20.01 and saw the Destiny option. I tried to use but every time something strange occurred, freezed the screen and shutdown the Planner.
    It is the planner or some incompatibility with Win 7?
    That is an issue with the planner, the destiny button wasn't supposed to be in that release as it is unfinished. That particular bug caused me quite a few hours of frustration to track down as it was a memory leak issue. As long as you don't mess with the destinies, you should encounter any issues that relate to that part of the planner.
    Guild: Ghallanda Rerolled
    Artamax - Cleandeath - Cleanup - Dragonbound - Draykon - Gully - Magestic - Tinbucket
    DDO Character Planner (Stable: Version 04.20.02) , Version 04.23.1 - Planner 5.0 Interface Discussion

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    What about options to NOT start with an iconic's first level?
    This is going to be addressed with the update that we do the Iconic/Epic past lives on.
    Guild: Ghallanda Rerolled
    Artamax - Cleandeath - Cleanup - Dragonbound - Draykon - Gully - Magestic - Tinbucket
    DDO Character Planner (Stable: Version 04.20.02) , Version 04.23.1 - Planner 5.0 Interface Discussion

  10. #10
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Okay guys, whilst I appreciate the bug reports and queries into further features, there is a thread for that kind of stuff.

    What I'm looking for here is thoughts on how to improve the UI. We're gonna be overhauling it soon(ish), so now would be the time to get in any ideas you might have on this subject, while we are in the planning phase.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

  11. #11
    Community Manager
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    Exciting! Thank you as always to the folks who volunteer their time to do this.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  12. #12
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Please make it as quick to build/plan a character as possible. Put everything on one screen so you can click, click, click done not have to go through 3-8 menus each level. Not sure if that is possible but hopefully there is a way to speed things up....

  13. #13
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    Hey Ron and Co, as always ty for your hardwork and dedication!

    Ideas?
    Well, i think the forum report tool may have some adjustments... i see the enhacements list too large, i would like to see them more compact. It's hard to follow a build with the list type you actually use. They are not listed by tiers and don't shows the last tier chose, it shows all tiers ( ex: haste tier1, haste tier 2, haste tier 3... I think this is not necessary and sometimes confusing)

    Example:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 279
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 11
    Reflex: 5
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength              8                    10
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution          8                     9
    Intelligence          8                     9
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance              -1                     7
    Bluff                -1                     7
    Concentration        -1                     7
    Diplomacy            -1                     7
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -1                     7
    Heal                 -1                     7
    Hide                 -1                     7
    Intimidate           -1                     7
    Jump                 -1                     8
    Listen               -1                     7
    Move Silently        -1                     7
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     7
    Search               -1                     7
    Spellcraft           -1                     7
    Spot                 -1                     7
    Swim                 n/a                    n/a
    Tumble               n/a                    n/a
    Use Magic Device     -1                     7
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 21 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 22 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 23 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 24 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 25 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 26 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 27 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 28 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Intelligence (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Defense Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Constitution (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Druidic Weapons (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Power Surge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One Cut (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Alacrity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Druidic Weapons (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Meditation (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Meditation (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Meditation (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Conditioning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Conditioning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Conditioning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - A Good Death (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Deadly Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    I think it will be easier if was something like:
    ENHACEMENTS:
    HUMAN TREE:
    Core:
    Human Versatility: Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)
    Human Adaptability: Intelligence
    Human Versatility: Defense Boost
    Human Adaptability: Constitution
    Human Versatility: Skill Boost

    FIGHTER TREE(kensai):
    Core: as above
    Tier1:
    Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
    Haste Boost (Rank 3)

    and so...

    As always it's only my opinion,

    Kal
    Proud officer of Zuleicos (Thelanis) - Mikaelus (Melee) ; Akhnaroth (Caster) ; Kraneo (Healbot) ; Leonardu (Melee) ; Tormentazul (Melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum
    Come play Dungeons and Dragons! In heroic play you will face the evil minions of Demons... When and if you make it to Epic levels you face even greater threats. Threats like... giant rats and wolves!

  14. #14
    Community Member fool101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    Please make it as quick to build/plan a character as possible. Put everything on one screen so you can click, click, click done not have to go through 3-8 menus each level. Not sure if that is possible but hopefully there is a way to speed things up....
    I agree. I build a lot of characters (with few translating to an in-game toon). It would be nice if, after doing starting stats, there was a way of telling it which class you are going to take at each level. From there some things could be streamlined such as maybe an option to put all level ups into a single stat (str or int for instance). Skills could be done in a similar fashion, so that, for instance concentration was increased at every level without further input. The remaining skill points would still be distributed as before. Then it would take you to a feat screen where it lays out which levels you get feats and you would click that feat slot and select a feat. This would make switching the feat order quicker if you change your mind.

    Basically, I'm suggesting moving away from level-by-level selections and moving toward categorical selection (feat, skills, etc) kind of like enhancements are now in the planner.

    I love what you're team has done and appreciate the continued effort to improve and expand its function.
    Last edited by fool101; 01-24-2014 at 10:39 AM.
    -Anything is possible....if you don't understand the problem.
    -Better to be perceived a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    Please make it as quick to build/plan a character as possible. Put everything on one screen so you can click, click, click done not have to go through 3-8 menus each level. Not sure if that is possible but hopefully there is a way to speed things up....
    For skills - have an auto select or order of preference - ie. set concentration, spellcraft and umd on a wizard say....and have it know I want that at each level - then I could also say as Int goes up 4th preference is bluff, 5th is diplo.....etc....so I don't have to fill in skills each level and scroll through the whole list. Worst case sort the list so ones I have added points to in past levels are at top of list.

    For Feats - let me plan out all 28 levels in one spot....I guess that needs more explanation - before I crack the planner open I have an idea for my build

    Say 15/3/2 FVS/Fi/Rogu I want to

    • Set race,gender
    • Set starting stats - and set levelups in one spot
    • Set Leveling path (ie. Ro/Fi/Fvsx12/Ro/Fi/FVS/Ro/FVS2)
    • Set Feats - this would depend on the leveling pattern and may require me to flip back and forth from level path to feats to get everything I want but to me this is the core of the planner - making sure I can get the feats I want and in what order.
    • Set enhancements - to me it doesnt matter what my enhancements are at level 2,4,6,11 etc... since i can just pay to fix those with ingame plat.


    I think this would be faster overall but its my style so it makes sense to me. Probably a major overhaul but ....it just my thoughts.
    gotta to kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight - B. Cockburn
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  16. #16
    Community Member Theolin's Avatar
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    Couple of questions

    Are you planning on having the icons scale as the window changes size?
    What size window would be the default?

  17. #17
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevor View Post
    Well, i think the forum report tool may have some adjustments... i see the enhacements list too large, i would like to see them more compact. It's hard to follow a build with the list type you actually use. They are not listed by tiers and don't shows the last tier chose, it shows all tiers ( ex: haste tier1, haste tier 2, haste tier 3... I think this is not necessary and sometimes confusing)
    I completely agree...

    Instead of grabbing all that stuff as text, I typically just screenshot the enhancement trees for clarity.


    As always, sincere thanks to ALL the folks that work on this. DDO would NOT be the same without it. This tool is of critical importance in planning builds.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  18. #18
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Okay, so what I'm seeing (so far) is a request for a move away from level-by-level building, and more toward a system based leveling, similar to what we are doing now for enhancements (and soon destinies).

    Fair enough. What if we remove the level bars and instruction box, and instead, you would click directly on the box you want to change? (e.g. clicking on the Abilities box would bring up a subscreen that allows you to set your abilities). Of course, within that subscreen you would probably need to specify the level you are changing at (level 1, level 4, etc). That way, all at once, you have set your abilities from 1-28 on one screen (and for abilities, we'd probably incorporate tomes onto that same screen).

    For Skills: I agree there needs to be some sort of "copy" function, so you only have to set it once and then pull it down to subsequent levels, as that is what the majority of people end up doing anyway. We will incorporate that in some fashion.

    As for Menus: We will try to keep everything on one page, but keep in mind, we have limited screen real estate to work with, and a lot of information to pass on to the user (and if we go with a system based level up method, it's going to get even more crowded!!). Some stuff we may have to tuck into menus simply because we won't have room. But we will try keep those limited to minor subsystems (pets, printing, forum stuff, etc). The actual building of characters we will keep on the main screen as much as we possibly can.

    The Forum Export Tool: I swear, I will be working on this soon. There will come a point in the not too distant future when you will be able to customize the forum export to your liking rather than having to live with what we have coded for you. I will certainly give you the commands you need to create a template that sorts the enhancements in the way you are asking for.
    Last edited by Ron; 01-24-2014 at 11:00 AM.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

  19. #19
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Okay guys, whilst I appreciate the bug reports and queries into further features, there is a thread for that kind of stuff.

    What I'm looking for here is thoughts on how to improve the UI. We're gonna be overhauling it soon(ish), so now would be the time to get in any ideas you might have on this subject, while we are in the planning phase.
    First of all, you and your team are awesome! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

    A feature that I really liked in the old planner that isn't in the newer version is that it use to show what level we selected our feats. Now it just shows the feats we selected but not the order we selected them in. Not a major thing but it was nice to have.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Hey gang,

    If you were to design a new interface for the Character Planner, what concepts would you put into it? How would you do it?

    We're looking to brainstorm here, there are no wrong ideas... So tell us what you would do.
    Just me personally, I like it to match what is in game. That way when I go to build my character I dont have to think about how to translate it from the planer to the game. That would risk a data entry error.

    I've always liked the way the forum output has looked. It makes a lot of sense when you look at it in that format in the forums.

    It might also be helpful to have a section/tab that links you to well respected data sources. Things like Sig's old Request a build thread, the wiki, ect. So that you can find help if you need it without already having the data bookmarked. Maybe you could build a page on the wiki to link to for the planner, so people can update it there instead of having to change your planner all the time?
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
    Dee Hock

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