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  1. #61
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordenfeldt View Post
    I would love to see a Drow version of this build, perhaps with a few points left over for Drow racial enhancements?

    Would someone be willing?
    You could easily drop all or most of the warchanter enhancements. Along with the 6 from human, that gives you up to 20 AP to spend in drow. You could get another 2 DCs easily. You'd lose one feat though, which would probably be force of personality. This might be made up for by drow's inherent spell resistance, but I honestly don't know if it would be high enough to be effective at endgame, although I highly doubt it.

    Human gets better burst dps and will save, drow gets 2 more DCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordenfeldt View Post
    Also, a general question. SB allows you to use charisma for damage eventually, but what about to-hit?
    Str is used for to-hit. With the changes to to-hit, it's difficult to create a build that has trouble hitting. As long as your to-hit stat (str, dex, etc.) is in the 30s, you shouldn't have any trouble hitting even in higher end EEs. Bards also get bonuses to to-hit from songs and this build has precision, so it won't be a problem at all.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  2. #62
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    This might be made up for by drow's inherent spell resistance, but I honestly don't know if it would be high enough to be effective at endgame, although I highly doubt it.
    Drow get up to 44 SR with enhancements. If this stacks with items, ED abilities, or other enhancements, then it might be able to reach useful numbers. If not, then it won't make up for the lack of force of personality.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  3. #63
    Eternally Mediocre Girl Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Drow get up to 44 SR with enhancements. If this stacks with items, ED abilities, or other enhancements, then it might be able to reach useful numbers. If not, then it won't make up for the lack of force of personality.
    I can confirm this doesn't stack with anything. It's useful in heroics but not great for epics.
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  4. #64
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    I can confirm this doesn't stack with anything. It's useful in heroics but not great for epics.
    Thanks for the confirmation. So a drow would lose an effective defense against will save spells (along with a few other minor things), but gain 2 DCs. Some might consider that worth it but I'll be sticking with human.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Thanks for the confirmation. So a drow would lose an effective defense against will save spells (along with a few other minor things), but gain 2 DCs. Some might consider that worth it but I'll be sticking with human.
    You are assuming they lose force of personality. Personally I would keep that feat (and with drow that means your will save is even higher due to higher Cha), and lose quicken spell, a feat I have always found to be in the 'sortof nice' range for any caster.

    So drow gets higher saves, higer DC, more damage (if using rapier or short sword) and decent heroic SR.

  6. #66
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordenfeldt View Post
    You are assuming they lose force of personality. Personally I would keep that feat (and with drow that means your will save is even higher due to higher Cha), and lose quicken spell, a feat I have always found to be in the 'sortof nice' range for any caster.
    Quicken is the feat for self healing imo. Needing a heal immediately and having it fail can be the difference between life and death. Quicken will do much more for survivability than force of personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordenfeldt View Post
    So drow gets higher saves, higer DC, more damage (if using rapier or short sword) and decent heroic SR.
    Human will actually do more damage. Human will have better burst dps with human damage boost coupled with swashbuckler's doubelstrike boost. Drow need to drop most of the warchanter tree to invest more in the racial tree. That means losing enchant weapons and iced edges (which will be easy enough to maintain on a build that crits as often as this one does) for a total of 4.5 damage. Drow racial weapons only offer 4 damage. If an arti is buffing you with deadly weapons then you won't get the advantage of enchant weapons and drow pulls ahead, but I don't count on having buffs that I can't provide myself. Not to mention there are changes planned for both warchanter and spellsinger, so I'd be reluctant to count on investing in the racial tree since soon (tm) it might be advantageous to invest more heavily in the class trees.

    The only real advantage that drow has is 2 more DCs, which may or may not be needed, I'm still not back to epic levels to know this for sure.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  7. #67
    Community Member N-0cturn's Avatar
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    Probably Human will still be the better choice but I think there are some good reasons for drow:

    1. The damage you get from the enhancements is multiplied by critical hits, so it will be more that the damage from iced edges. If you have enough AP for the racial enhancements that is. And human damage boost will still pull out ahead for burst dps.

    2. Drow get Shuriken Expertise for free, which will give you quite a decent ranged option. Pirate Ninjas!

    3. Since you have Slippery Mind I think you can get a way with a bit lower will save. Bard past lives will help as well. Also IF the SR was working then it would help against some other saves as well. I think there is a SR check for soundburst for example (which is weird because it does damage).

    Overall I think Drow is a decent choice.

  8. #68
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-0cturn View Post
    Probably Human will still be the better choice but I think there are some good reasons for drow:

    1. The damage you get from the enhancements is multiplied by critical hits, so it will be more that the damage from iced edges. If you have enough AP for the racial enhancements that is. And human damage boost will still pull out ahead for burst dps.

    2. Drow get Shuriken Expertise for free, which will give you quite a decent ranged option. Pirate Ninjas!

    3. Since you have Slippery Mind I think you can get a way with a bit lower will save. Bard past lives will help as well. Also IF the SR was working then it would help against some other saves as well. I think there is a SR check for soundburst for example (which is weird because it does damage).

    Overall I think Drow is a decent choice.
    All good points, although losing force of personality results in a drop of 23 will save, leaving it at 41 which won't cut it in EE. Slippery mind doesn't affect the save in any way, it just gives you a chance to roll twice. Which means if you're going to fail regardless, then you just fail twice. That's why I never bothered taking it on my rogues. If you don't get your will save to high enough levels anyway, then it doesn't matter if you get a second chance.

    And I certainly think drow is a decent option. Human just fits my priorities better.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  9. #69

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    Hello!

    Great build; i'm having a lot of fun with a first-lifer that has no tomes (I managed to snag a +2 charisma tome though, at least, from the AH.)

    I was wondering: With the Crystal Cove now up and running, is there anything else you would recommend getting besides the Swashbuckler? Any mods on the hat you would lean towards as being particular worth getting? The short sword seems more rogue-focused.

    I'm trying to plan out my equipment as I go and making sure I get all the big things covered; i'm not really planning for the end-game - yet.

  10. #70
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detton View Post
    Hello!

    Great build; i'm having a lot of fun with a first-lifer that has no tomes (I managed to snag a +2 charisma tome though, at least, from the AH.)

    I was wondering: With the Crystal Cove now up and running, is there anything else you would recommend getting besides the Swashbuckler? Any mods on the hat you would lean towards as being particular worth getting? The short sword seems more rogue-focused.

    I'm trying to plan out my equipment as I go and making sure I get all the big things covered; i'm not really planning for the end-game - yet.
    Thanks. I'm glad you're enjoying the build.

    For me personally, I'm getting a tier 1 level 8 swashbuckler, a tier 3 level 12 swashbuckler, and a tier 3 level 16 swashbuckler. I have other gear covered already so that's all I really need.

    The level 12+ shortsword is actually pretty good because of its inherent expanded crit range. It is naturally 18-20x2. You'll have imp crit by the time you can use it so along with swashbuckling stance the shortsword has a 13-20x3 crit profile. That's pretty nice and I might craft one myself, but I hate to give up my greensteel for it. On a first life though, I don't know of anything better than this. Keep in mind you'll get doublestrike from the shield already, so I'd probably only take the shortsword to tier 2 for level 12 and 16 versions, but take the level 20 version to tier 3 for the red slot if you get it (the Star of Day from Eveningstar com turn-ins is another good option at 20).

    The leather armor is an OK choice. It's far more important to keep your dodge maxed rather than get a little bit of PRR, so it might be better to stick with robes. You'll have to see what your dodge will be at various levels and compare it to the dodge cap on the armor to see if it is worth it or not. I'm only level 9 and have 24% dodge so I'm sticking with robes.

    The bold trinket is a nice option. The exceptional seeker goes well with the crit profile you'll have and the shocking blow procs often due to a faster attack speed.

    For the hats, I would only get what isn't available elsewhere, which probably just means superior false life or heavy fort. I don't know how easy 100% fort is to find at those levels with random loot, but that might not be necessary. I'm pretty sure you can't find superior false life at level 9 though. Ability stats and seeker are easily found on random loot. Spell points aren't really needed. And with the way I play, at least, I wouldn't get any use out of sneak attack.

    Hope that helps.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  11. #71
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detton View Post
    I was wondering: With the Crystal Cove now up and running, is there anything else you would recommend getting besides the Swashbuckler? Any mods on the hat you would lean towards as being particular worth getting? The short sword seems more rogue-focused.
    I would suggest taking a good look at the Duelist's Leathers armor too. Starting at level 8 those have quite high MDB so you can push your Dodge% higher than usual, and has a decent amount of Dodge% included between the Dodge effect and the Mobility Feat effect.

    The shortsword is a bit more Rogue-ish because of the skill bonuses but it has some merits. Starting at level 12 it has an expanded crit range (15% rather than 10%); with SB and IC:P the crit profile becomes 13-20 x3. I would not recommend it but it isn't the worst option available.
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  12. #72
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    I would suggest taking a good look at the Duelist's Leathers armor too. Starting at level 8 those have quite high MDB so you can push your Dodge% higher than usual, and has a decent amount of Dodge% included between the Dodge effect and the Mobility Feat effect.
    The level 12 version has base MDB of 12. With 4 swashbuckler cores and the ship buff that raises MDB by 2, it becomes 18. The level 16 version has base MDB of 15. With 4 swashbuckler cores and the ship buff that raises MDB by 2, it becomes 21. At level 9 I've already got 24% dodge. Personally, I'd rather have another 3-6 dodge than a few points of PRR. Dodge is easily found on random loot now. If you're going with nothing in the offhand, then I'd say the armor is worth it. But if you've got the 10% dodge from skirmisher, then I'd lean towards robes. Not to mention the Duelist's Leathers look like S&M gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    The shortsword is a bit more Rogue-ish because of the skill bonuses but it has some merits. Starting at level 12 it has an expanded crit range (15% rather than 10%); with SB and IC:P the crit profile becomes 13-20 x3. I would not recommend it but it isn't the worst option available.
    That will do some solid dps with a crit profile like that. Although I will say exploit weakness reduces the value of a weapon's inherent crit range to some degree. I guess compared to other swashbuckler weapons, it's really only 10% more crits. What else would you recommend for a first lifer that competes with the cutthroat's smallblade? I've already got greentsteel on this guy so I haven't considered heroic named weapons too much.
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  13. #73
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Any Finesseable weapon with a higher-than-normal crit range and/or multiplier is worth considering, IMHO; although as you say, Exploit Weakness makes the crit range a little less important, but you can't take it until lvl 12. Some possibilities: Sickle of Sypheros, Widowblight, and Tharkuul's Bane (Swashbuckling makes them 17-20 x3); Threnal dagger; the dagger & dart from RoaSP; any of the light weapons from Co6 (particularly Sheridan's Wrack & Ruin); GotL; Razorend (w/SB 13-20 x3 crits + Hemorrhaging, plus it lets you delay IC:Pierce).

    EDIT: there don't appear to be any named light picks, so I guess you're stuck with crafted or lootgen ones if you go that route. Too bad there's no mini-Deathnip!
    Last edited by unbongwah; 06-27-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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  14. #74
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Any Finesseable weapon with a higher-than-normal crit range and/or multiplier is worth considering, IMHO; although as you say, Exploit Weakness makes the crit range a little less important, but you can't take it until lvl 12. Some possibilities: Sickle of Sypheros, Widowblight, and Tharkuul's Bane (Swashbuckling makes them 17-20 x3); Threnal dagger; the dagger & dart from RoaSP; any of the light weapons from Co6 (particularly Sheridan's Wrack & Ruin); GotL; Razorend (w/SB 13-20 x3 crits + Hemorrhaging, plus it lets you delay IC:Pierce).

    EDIT: there don't appear to be any named light picks, so I guess you're stuck with crafted or lootgen ones if you go that route. Too bad there's no mini-Deathnip!
    Thanks for the list unbongwah. I was referring specifically to the cutthroat's smallblade when I made my comment about exploit weakness since its expanded crit range doesn't appear until level 12 version. It's true for all weapons after level 12 but I totally agree that before that anything with an expanded crit profile is ideal. I was lucky enough to get a Tiefling Assassin's Blade cheap on the auction house after farming for it didn't work. 15-20x3 crit profile at level 4 is awesome. I'm planning on using that until I get my greensteel triple positive rapier.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  15. #75
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    I agree on the robes. I had not considered that. However sometimes I am stubborn and like to play in something other than robes because I think it is bad game design that almost every class does better in robes than armor right now.

    I'm not saying that the short sword is terrible - it isn't - but I think that there are a lot better alternatives. The big thing is that Exploit Weakness and Swashbuckling (and to a lesser degree Blow By Blow and En Pointe) really skew heavily towards effects that happen on critical hit because you get a lot of them, but nothing on the Cove short sword scales with crits. I suspect that any random weapon with some combination of burst effects and one of the three big on crit effects (e.g. Heartseeker, Ribcracker, and Bloodletter) will outdo the cove short sword over time, but I have not tried to run numbers to verify that.

    My top suggestion would be a Guardian of the Liturgy dagger. It is a [1d10] dagger w/ 15% x2 critical profile (which becomes 40% x3 w/SB & IC:P), Bleed, Heartseeker 4, and a Red augment slot. It drops in a P2P quest (Desecrated Temple of Vol, Necropolis 4) but it is BtCoE and you can find them in the AH sometimes. The prices can be ridiculous at times, but I have found affordable ones too and even ones that were discarded on pawn brokers.

    Some other options that are quite nice are:
    Skullsmasher from The Crucible (Light Mace, BtCoE, ML12-14, [1.75-2](1d6) 5% x3 -> 30% x4 w/SB & IC:B, Ribcracker 3-4 [another massive on crit damage effect], Red augment)
    (Removed: Axe of the Unseen Blow)
    Turbulent Epee from Missing (BtA, Rapier, ML14, standard dmg & crit, random Energy Burst, Metalline, Aligned)
    Envenomed Blade from Lords of Dust (F2P) (ML16, BtA but F2P, short sword, standard dmg & crit, Poison Burst, Paralyzing)

    Update: It was later discovered that the Axe of the Unseen Blow from Litany of the Dead does not work with Swashbuckling. Everyone has my apologies for passing on incorrect information about it.
    Last edited by Caprice; 09-05-2014 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Axe of the Unseen Blow is NOT Swashbucklable
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  16. #76
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    Personally, I'd say that the Duelists Leathers are worth it by Level 16, getting a base max dodge of 17 (the 15 listed plus another 2 for built-in mobility feat), which raises to 27 with 4 Swashbuckler cores and rank 3 Second Skin, 29% with ship buffs. Epic Duelist Leathers is definitely worth it, since it has a higher max dex than any item in the game.

  17. #77
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    I'm not saying that the short sword is terrible - it isn't - but I think that there are a lot better alternatives. The big thing is that Exploit Weakness and Swashbuckling (and to a lesser degree Blow By Blow and En Pointe) really skew heavily towards effects that happen on critical hit because you get a lot of them, but nothing on the Cove short sword scales with crits. I suspect that any random weapon with some combination of burst effects and one of the three big on crit effects (e.g. Heartseeker, Ribcracker, and Bloodletter) will outdo the cove short sword over time, but I have not tried to run numbers to verify that.
    That's a good point. Those effects do add some significant damge so you're probably right. And thanks for the named weapon suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    Personally, I'd say that the Duelists Leathers are worth it by Level 16, getting a base max dodge of 17 (the 15 listed plus another 2 for built-in mobility feat), which raises to 27 with 4 Swashbuckler cores and rank 3 Second Skin, 29% with ship buffs. Epic Duelist Leathers is definitely worth it, since it has a higher max dex than any item in the game.
    I forgot that second skin is available by then, so you're right, the duelist's leathers are well worth it. That means I need at least a level 12 version. I've got dragontouched heal amp/heal amp/devotion84 that I'll be using at 16, so I don't think I'll bother with that version. That also means I need to buy a cosmetic armor kit while they're on sale since I don't want to look like the gimp from Pulp Fiction.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  18. #78

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    Awesome responses everyone - Thank you very much! That's a lot to work on for me; I do not have a whole lot of time to grind with. After the swashbuckler, would you consider leathers probably the second best priority, and then the shortsword? Or just look for a good lootgen weapon with an on-crit proc?

  19. #79
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detton View Post
    Awesome responses everyone - Thank you very much! That's a lot to work on for me; I do not have a whole lot of time to grind with. After the swashbuckler, would you consider leathers probably the second best priority, and then the shortsword? Or just look for a good lootgen weapon with an on-crit proc?
    You can probably find a decent lootgen weapon easily enough, but you aren't going to find any armor that compares. So I'd make the armor second priority personally. And I'd agree with Caprice, the shortsword probably isn't worth it. Try to find a lootgen weapon with heartseeker, ribcracker, or bloodletter (depending on the weapon type you want to use) or one of the other named options suggested.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  20. #80
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    I would also highly recommend making a basic Lesser Cunning Trinket. Don't bother upgrading it, just make the first tier which is pretty cheap (500 copper coins, 250 silver coins, & 100 dragonshards). That trinket gives +50 SP that stacks with almost everything in the game. You can swap it in just before using a shrine or leaving a quest, and you will have an extra 50 SP available to cast for buffs, then you swap in your "real" trinket as soon as you are done buffing. When you swap it out your maximum SP drops by 50 but if you have cast at least 50 SP worth of spells then your current SP amount does not drop at all. Bards are on a lower SP scale than most caster classes so every little bit extra you can wring out is well worth having.

    Edit: The upgraded versions have +1 DC to Enchantment is also okay, but if your Cove time is limited then I feel that the baseline +50 SP is the best part. You can get higher bonuses to Enchantment from other gear, but not the SP.
    Last edited by Caprice; 06-27-2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Comment on upgrades to the Cunning Trinket
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