Assassins have been assassinated...

[krimsonrane]

Forget I ever said it. It was a vent anyway. Not worth bothering with.

[morkahn82]

What is left that an assassin can do which no one else can?
Nothing. Everyone has manslayer on all their weapons so there goes 18 levels wasted for assassins.
Everyone has some form of instakill so that is nothing special.
Everywhere you look there are undead immune to assassinate and SA so their (now common) powers are useless then too.

It used to be my favorite prestige class. Now there is no reason to build one.
Literally a bottom of the barrel choice.

I haven't read anything that says they plan to rework the assassin so might as well admit it and be done.
Assassins have been assassinated...

Killed by indifference.

good points.

[Holleyz]

Agreed. I can't wait to get to 20 on my assassin so I can TR into something that is the flavor of the month so that questing is enjoyable again. Oh and don't go Arcane Archer Ranger that class has been shot to hellll its like they are trying to force you to be a 2 weapon fighter in light armor rather than being a Archer.

[Uska]

Don't worry they will some silly nonsense power creep baloney for them like they did for paladins and are doing for barbs

[gwonbush]

Ironically, this has been the best update for Assassins in a while. The Melee Power changes make your sneak attacks hit harder, while Harper allows you to apply Intelligence for To Hit and Damage, making damage and Assassinate DC no longer a trade-off. The only real problem is that it is another undead update, which means lots of 100% fort mobs immune to Assassinate.

[phillymiket]

Ironically, this has been the best update for Assassins in a while. The Melee Power changes make your sneak attacks hit harder, while Harper allows you to apply Intelligence for To Hit and Damage, making damage and Assassinate DC no longer a trade-off. The only real problem is that it is another undead update, which means lots of 100% fort mobs immune to Assassinate.

I was thinking the same thing.

Last time I was an Assassin I felt forced into Epic Midnight Greetings.

I'm just coming back from a break from the game and saw the new +2/+4 Assassination gear and the Harper line and was considering switching from quarterstaff to 2WF and going Assassin again to try out the new (what I thought were) buffs to the class.

How are they weaker than before?

Is the only complaint that others can also do similar things?

Am I missing something?

[Phaeton_Seraph]

I agree that the harper's is the best thing to happen to assassins in a while.

However, the sub-class is still not very good.

Even with great assassination DCs, there are so many things that are just plain immune to assassination. With that in mind, I think the cool down is too long by half.

Bluff is borked - it aggroes mobs, which makes them move unpredictably and hard to assassinate.
Venomed Blades is borked - it prevents sneak attacks
Shiv is borked - it does not actually decrease/prevent aggro

And poisons are not as useful as one would think because far too many mobs are immune/resistant.


So the Harper tree gave us some badly needed DPS, but at the cost of other very useful enhancements.
Nothing is Hidden and Kip-up would be very fine to have, but I think we need the Harper tree more.

• Decrease the cool downs on Assassinate and Execute by half.
• Give us another level of faster sneaking.
• Give us a bludgeoning tactical enhancement, call it a Kosh or something. We don't need all three poisons.

[phillymiket]

I agree that the harper's is the best thing to happen to assassins in a while.

However, the sub-class is still not very good.

Even with great assassination DCs, there are so many things that are just plain immune to assassination. With that in mind, I think the cool down is too long by half.

Bluff is borked - it aggroes mobs, which makes them move unpredictably and hard to assassinate.
Venomed Blades is borked - it prevents sneak attacks
Shiv is borked - it does not actually decrease/prevent aggro

And poisons are not as useful as one would think because far too many mobs are immune/resistant.


So the Harper tree gave us some badly needed DPS, but at the cost of other very useful enhancements.
Nothing is Hidden and Kip-up would be very fine to have, but I think we need the Harper tree more.

• Decrease the cool downs on Assassinate and Execute by half.
• Give us another level of faster sneaking.
• Give us a bludgeoning tactical enhancement, call it a Kosh or something. We don't need all three poisons.

Good ideas.

Yeah, poisons...

Part of why I'm a happy monk/rogue type is because the poisons and trickery of rogue EDs just seem un-fun and un-useful.

I don't want to be a wraith, I don't want dart sprays or melee DOTs. I don't want to reduce the mobs Con or w/e with a poison.

I want to sneak up and backstab stuff.

Sneaky, sneaky, stabby, stabby.

That's what I want.

Until I can do that properly I'll stick with kung-fu rogue.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Don't worry they will some silly nonsense power creep baloney for them like they did for paladins and are doing for barbs

Yeah but it's going to be something odd, like making them the best healbots, or the best archers.

[Razor_Wit]

1. Create enhancement: "Wrack Undead" providing similar benefits as Wrack Construct does:
Melee Attack: On Damage: Deals 1d6/3d6/5d6 extra damage to constructs and living constructs, and applies Wracked: This construct or living construct fortification is reduced by 10% and loses its inherent immunity to sneak attack. This effect stacks up to five times.
2. Allow me to assassinate more than 2 mobs....maybe even groups with proper positioning. Heck GMoF's EiN clears the room...
3. Reduce the Assassinate cool down.

[krimsonrane]

Ironically, this has been the best update for Assassins in a while. The Melee Power changes make your sneak attacks hit harder, while Harper allows you to apply Intelligence for To Hit and Damage, making damage and Assassinate DC no longer a trade-off. The only real problem is that it is another undead update, which means lots of 100% fort mobs immune to Assassinate.

in to to damage doesn't make it worthwhile. At least i don't think so.

How about this. give them a killing blow like no other. 1 gagillion% power increase for 3 seconds with a 1 minute cooldown.
AND int to damage.

[krimsonrane]

I'm probably lamenting them so don't mind me. More of a vent than a fact for sure.

[HackSlashKill]

after 25+ past lives, I am playing my final build... pure rogue assassin line. I had this planed for a long time, even when we had the old enhancement trees. Here is what I really like or found useful so far, as I am lvl 24:

Sap works well in epics. Most stuff I can sap, go into sneak mode, and then assassinate.
Hamstring works well in epics. Most creatures including named can take a blade across the ankle if you know what I mean. This helps bad guys running away
Escape Notice (shadowdancer line) uses hide skill versus diplo, very helpful

Here is what needs work:

Assassinate cool down is too long. Usually, you get one time and then stuff in the room gets killed by other party members before the cool down and people are off and running to the next room
Measure the foe, it takes time to build up the +5 dc, so while trying to stay in sneak mode, the party is already way ahead. It would be nice to either increase the speed up on measure the foe. Sneaking faster doesn't make sense, you shouldn't be able to blast through while sneaking; however, changing measure foe does. I would prefer changing the measure the foe. Make it a +1 for every second. 10 seconds is too long

[FlaviusMaximus]

A lot of good points so far.

Harper was indeed amazing for Assassins. Still, the poisons aren't really worth anything and Measure the Foe is absurd. Assassins shouldn't have to sneak around and not hit things for their assassinates to work. Just give Assassins a flat out +5 to Assassinate at tier 5 and call it a day. Casters will still instakill better them if such a change is made, so it's not like it would be gamebreaking.

[goodspeed]

I never bothered with assassinate. For a run and gun mmo like this one, it always seemed like to much of a pain in the ass.

The closest I got was incorporating their dmg numbers into forced SA dmg on monsters. One of wowo's old builds. You force the dmg with stunning fist, blow, and bluffs. (2 if helf) Then add in improved decept and sometimes blinding.

Been awhile since I played it last so im sure the feat lineup would change. Might be even more ways to force sa now with the enhancment changes here and there. And with bladeforged the healing would be easier then the old scroll style.

[Ermin_Sivarch]

I remember my assassin character unable to assassinate with anything but a dagger, but with a dagger, and sneaking, he'd fast sneak up on a group of mobs, kill one, have the others wondering what's going on, and then kill another, and another. This was mostly running around in gianthold. When I created my assassin I didn't have the best gear for my characters, yet my assassin could hold his own mainly because he was so deadly. As I remember it the poison extra damage wasn't interfering with assassination at the time I played my assassins.

I think having multiple viable choices on how you want to design your character is a good thing. With the new harper changes makes me want to try out a harper assassin.

[Qezuzu]

Don't know what you're all smoking. Assassin is still good.

[dunklezhan]

Sneaky, sneaky, stabby, stabby.

Devs - that right there is the purest design goal you're ever likely to see, sitting right alongside 'angry angry, smashy smashy' for Barbarians.

Make it so

[redoubt]

#1 thing to be done: Make assassinate attacks happen before ANYTHING ELSE. No other damage or checks should take place first. This has been the source of many issues which have caused assassinates to fail in the past. An assassin should be able to assassinate multiple mobs even when solo.

Make deadly shadow +4 INT instead of +2
Add 2% sneak speed to each tier of sneak attack training
Make measure the foe 5/3/1 seconds and allow it to stack to 10

Upgrade Executioner's strike.
Executioner's Strike/Shot : Active Ability: (Cooldown: 30 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. On hit: You have a 35% chance to kill a living target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 7 + Character level + DEX modifier + Number of Shadow Charges). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.

Add an INT modifier option (so that is uses INT or DEX whichever is higher.) It seems pretty obvious that ShadowDancer is the expected ED for assassins. Assassins use INT.
The DC 7 vs 10 of most things is okay due to shadow charges adding in.
Lower the cooldown. Most battles don't last 30 seconds.
Make the chance to proc: 35% + INT/DEX mod (whichever is higher)

To Shadow form, add +1 assassinate DC per shadow charge.

[CThruTheEgo]

Ironically, this has been the best update for Assassins in a while. The Melee Power changes make your sneak attacks hit harder, while Harper allows you to apply Intelligence for To Hit and Damage, making damage and Assassinate DC no longer a trade-off. The only real problem is that it is another undead update, which means lots of 100% fort mobs immune to Assassinate.

^This. Harper has done a lot for assassins. They are currently at their best imo.

And while undead are immune to assassinate, they are no longer a dps problem for an assassin at all. With int to damage, base damage has gone way up. With melee power, base damage and sneak attack damage has gone way up. With all the fort bypass available now, high fort mobs end up taking a lot of sneak attack damage as well as crits. This is based off of actual in-game experience in the new content – the idea that undead are a weakness for an assassin is simply not true anymore. This is now a thing of the past.