War Dancer

[MadCookieQueen]

Flavor:




Before you continue:

This is NOT a post U23 "standard" Bard
Not CHA based
Absolutely ZERO Swashbuckling


If you're okay with that...let the bodies hit the floor!



Class Split: 15 Bard / 5 Ranger RRRRRBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
Race: Drow (As a note this toon has always been a Drow and so I keep designing around that. If you prefer another race, by all means just keep the stats close to this one and rock on!)


Abilities:

Str: 49/74-- (17 base + 5 tome +7 levels +1 GoTIB +2 insightful +2 enhancements +10 Item, +2 Profane +2 ship +1 ED / +2 rams, +2 song, +2 yugo, +4 alchemical, +5 primal, +4 skaldic, +6 psionic)
Dex: 33/35 -- (15 base + 5 tome + 8 item +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 ship/ +2 song)
Con: 38/49 -- (14 base +6 tome +11 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 Ship/ +2 song, +4 tensers)
Int: 20/22 -- (10 base +5 tome +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 ship / +2 song)
Wis: 29/31 -- (8 base +5 tome +11 item +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 insight +2 ship/ +2 song)
Cha: 34/36 -- (14 base +5 tome +8 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 ship/ +2 song)

Feats:

Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3, Monk x3, Bard x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3, Brace x3, Colors x3, Enchant Weapon X3, Energy Critical x3, Power over life and death x3
Base: Power Attack (1), Cleave (3), Great Cleave (6), ITWF (9), Improved Critical: Bludgeon (12), GTWF (15), Quicken (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), Maximize (24), Inspire Excellence (27),
Destiny: pTWF(26), Lasting Inspiration (28)
Ranger: FE: Undead (1), TWF (2), FE: Human (5)

Skill ranks:

Concentration (23), Perform (23), Heal (23), UMD(23), Balance(23)
UMD: 62 (+13 CHA, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +2 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +6 GS, +3 ship)
Heal: 68 (+10 WIS, +13 item, +23 ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship)
Perform: 79 (+13 CHA, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +6 GS, +3 ship, +15 item)

Enhancements:
Ranger: Tempest (36 ap)

C: Shield of Whirling Steel (1), Tempest (1)
I: Whirling Blades (2), Improved Reaction III (3)
II: Haste Boost III (6), Whirling Blades (2), Improved Parry III (6)
III: Whirling Blades (2), Str (2)
IV: The Growing Storm III (3), Whirling Blades (2)
V: Dance of Death III (3)

Bard: War Chanter (37 ap)

C: Skaldic Rage (1), Weapon training (1), Song of Heroism (1), Fighting Spirit (1)
I: Enchant Weapon (2), Rough and Ready III (3)
II: Iced Edges III (3), Sprint Boost III (3)
III: Ironskin Chant III (3), High Spirits III (3), Frozen Fury III (3), Strength I (2)
IV: Reckless Chant III (3), Armorer (2), Northwind III (6)

Bard: Spellsinger (7)

C: Spellsinger (1),
I: Magical Studies III (3), Lingering Songs III (3)

Core Stats:

HP: 875/1057 (130 levels, +80 epic, +392 Con, +30 enhancements, +10 draconic, +50 false life, +25 shroud, +60 ED, +20 autogrant, +33 primal past life, +20 vitality / +546 con)
SP: 1373 (435 base, +80 magical training, +336 CHA, +147 WIS, +100 GS, +25 ship, +250 item)
Positive Spell Power: 424 (138 Devotion + +68 heal skill +25 Ardor potion (Alchemical) +15 guild +150 maximize, +28 enhancements)
Healing Amp: 210% ((30 pally PLs + 60 Ardent +20 guild) +100) / 100
PRR: 148 (30 Armor +18 Medium Proficiency + 30 sheltering +22 enhancements +30 Blitz, +18 PLs)
Fort: 185% (130 Item + 40% brace for impact +15% ship)
Frozen Fury: 60 (14 base, +14 cha, +7 bard levels, +12 item, +5 combat mastery, +3 fighter pl, +1 ship, +4 tactics) – Against high fort mobs (estimated average monster fort of 75) this will hit 80% of the time.

Saves:

Fort: 58 (9 base + 4 epic + 15 con + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence + 3 ship + 3 Green Steel + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact -4 yugo pot)
Ref: 62 (13 base + 4 epic + 12 Dex + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence + 3 ship + 3 Green Steel + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact)
Will: 54 (10 base + 4 epic + 10 Wis + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence + 3 ship + 3 Green Steel + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact)

Epic Destiny -- Legendary Dreadnought

I: Extra Action Boost III (3), Legendary Tactics II (2),
II: Momentum Swing III (3), Improved Power Attack (2), Action Boost: Damage III (3)
III: Lay Waste (1),
VI: Anvil of Thunder (2)
V: Devasting Critical (2), Advancing blows (2)
VI: Masters Blitz (2), Pulverizer (2)
Twists: Sense Weakness (4), Balanced Attacks (3), Brace for Impact (1), Primal Scream (1)

Gear:

Trinket: Epic Litany [Eldrich Saves Ritual] (Yellow: Draconic Soul gem, Green: Open )/ PLIS
Head: Dragon Masque (Yellow: Blindness Ward; Colorless: DEX +8 )
Neck: Shroud of the Ardent (Yellow: iCHA, Green: iWIS )
Goggles: Glimpse of the Soul (Yellow: iSTR, Green: +250 SP)
Bracers: Epic Inferno (Yellow: iCON, Green: Heal +13)
Body: Shadow Dragon Scalemail (Blue: Golem’s Heart; Green: Open)
Cloak: GS Air/Earth/Positive, 10 HP +2 DEX skills, 15 HP +4 CON skills, 3 Resistance, +100 SP, +6 CHA skills, balance of land and sky / Jeweled Cloak
Ring: Ogre Power +10 of False Life +50
Ring: EE Consuming darkness (Green: GoTIB)
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (Blue: Good Luck +2; Green: Perform +15)
Gloves: EE Backstabbers (yellow: vitality +20)
Belt: Battle Ragers Harness (Green: CHA +8)
Weapon:
Thunder Forged Warhammer Touch of Flames/Dragon’s Edge/Mortal Fear (Orange: Meteoric Star Ruby)
Thunder Forged Warhammer 1st Degree Burns/Purple: Devotion 138/Mortal Fear (Orange: Meteoric Star Ruby)

DPS Calculations (approximation, have not verified through Bruntsmash test):

~2,088 Blitz | ~1,539 not blitzing | ~2,731 Haste Boosted ~2,339 MP Boosted| 5,472 helpless Haste Boost (15.8% balanced attack proc) 4,195 helpless

Melee Power: 112 = (24 epic power + 18 LD innate +70 Blitz)
Damage Mod: 91.6 = (+16 weapon [12+1 Enchant +3 PLs] + 11 deadly + 4 profane +32 Str +5 vanguard +5 power attack +5 Advancing Blows +2 song +3 past lives +4.6 growing storm +2 good hope)
Double Strike: 32% (+ 5% Perfect TWF +9% Epic PL +12% Item +6 Reckless song) |10% off-hand
Seeker: 22 (12 Seeker +2 LD +2 Purge +6 airship)
SA damage: 17 per swing (8 SA +9 iSA)
Deception proc: ~92.32% ((+ 10% improved deception +5% deception) ^~15.8 swings per 4 sec window) – 3.95 swings per sec

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WAIT! Why you no like Manyshot?

1. Without Slayer/Fury the DPS is really lacking...in a burst you are only looking at around a ~1200 damage...I do more with a sneeze.
2. There's no 2 feats I would trade for it, if keeping the split
3. Going 14/6 costs you Inspire Excellence, by comparison I find that a +2 to all stats (or +1 to ALL DCs) much more viable than the lackluster Manyshot
4. Ranger is only for Dance of Death...enough said ^^


That's a lot of grind...what about first life or new to DDO?

You'll need to hit the DEX requirements for iTWF and gTWF and the STR requirements for Power Attack. You can dump CHA, which mostly just adds to Frozen Fury and spell points for healing. So really you need to get DEX to 17, jack STR and apply CON.


Don't you Heal?

I have Cure Serious, usually that's plenty to keep me standing when face to face with something (Heal Scrolls in between combat). If you need more in combat healing twist in Rejuv Cocoon. Which you can do by not going sense weakness as you'll have to do additional epic TR grind to get to the 26 needed for a 4,3,1,1 split. You will lose DPS though.


What about this other shiny weapon?

Synergies. LD does a lot for war hammers, after you apply the affects, war hammers turn very nasty. Also skellies dont' like them ^^



If you have other questions, please ask.

Good luck and game on!

[CrackedIce]

Flavor:




Before you continue:

This is NOT a post U23 "standard" Bard
Not CHA based
Absolutely ZERO Swashbuckling


If you're okay with that...let the bodies hit the floor!



Class Split: 15 Bard / 5 Ranger RRRRRBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
Race: Drow (As a note this toon has always been a Drow and so I keep designing around that. If you prefer another race, by all means just keep the stats close to this one and rock on!)


Abilities:

Str: 49/74-- (17 base + 5 tome +7 levels +1 GoTIB +2 insightful +2 enhancements +10 Item, +2 Profane +2 ship +1 ED / +2 rams, +2 song, +2 yugo, +4 alchemical, +5 primal, +4 skaldic, +6 psionic)
Dex: 33/35 -- (15 base + 5 tome + 8 item +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 ship/ +2 song)
Con: 38/49 -- (14 base +6 tome +11 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 Ship/ +2 song, +4 tensers)
Int: 20/22 -- (10 base +5 tome +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 ship / +2 song)
Wis: 29/31 -- (8 base +5 tome +11 item +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 insight +2 ship/ +2 song)
Cha: 34/36 -- (14 base +5 tome +8 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +2 profane +2 ship/ +2 song)

Feats:

Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3, Monk x3, Bard x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3, Brace x3, Colors x3, Enchant Weapon X3, Energy Critical x3, Power over life and death x3
Base: Power Attack (1), Cleave (3), Great Cleave (6), ITWF (9), Improved Critical: Bludgeon (12), GTWF (15), Quicken (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), Maximize (24), Inspire Excellence (27),
Destiny: pTWF(26), Lasting Inspiration (28)
Ranger: FE: Undead (1), TWF (2), FE: Human (5)

Skill ranks:

Concentration (23), Perform (23), Heal (23), UMD(23), Balance(23)
UMD: 62 (+13 CHA, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +2 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +6 GS, +3 ship)
Heal: 68 (+10 WIS, +13 item, +23 ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship)
Perform: 79 (+13 CHA, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +6 GS, +3 ship, +15 item)

Enhancements:
Ranger: Tempest (36 ap)

C: Shield of Whirling Steel (1), Tempest (1)
I: Whirling Blades (2), Improved Reaction III (3)
II: Haste Boost III (6), Whirling Blades (2), Improved Parry III (6)
III: Whirling Blades (2), Str (2)
IV: The Growing Storm III (3), Whirling Blades (2)
V: Dance of Death III (3)

Bard: War Chanter (37 ap)

C: Skaldic Rage (1), Weapon training (1), Song of Heroism (1), Fighting Spirit (1)
I: Enchant Weapon (2), Rough and Ready III (3)
II: Iced Edges III (3), Sprint Boost III (3)
III: Ironskin Chant III (3), High Spirits III (3), Frozen Fury III (3), Strength I (2)
IV: Reckless Chant III (3), Armorer (2), Northwind III (6)

Bard: Spellsinger (7)

C: Spellsinger (1),
I: Magical Studies III (3), Lingering Songs III (3)

Core Stats:

HP: 875/1057 (130 levels, +80 epic, +392 Con, +30 enhancements, +10 draconic, +50 false life, +25 shroud, +60 ED, +20 autogrant, +33 primal past life, +20 vitality / +546 con)
SP: 1373 (435 base, +80 magical training, +336 CHA, +147 WIS, +100 GS, +25 ship, +250 item)
Positive Spell Power: 424 (138 Devotion + +68 heal skill +25 Ardor potion (Alchemical) +15 guild +150 maximize, +28 enhancements)
Healing Amp: 210% ((30 pally PLs + 60 Ardent +20 guild) +100) / 100
PRR: 148 (30 Armor +18 Medium Proficiency + 30 sheltering +22 enhancements +30 Blitz, +18 PLs)
Fort: 185% (130 Item + 40% brace for impact +15% ship)
Frozen Fury: 60 (14 base, +14 cha, +7 bard levels, +12 item, +5 combat mastery, +3 fighter pl, +1 ship, +4 tactics) – Against high fort mobs (estimated average monster fort of 75) this will hit 80% of the time.

Saves:

Fort: 58 (9 base + 4 epic + 15 con + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence + 3 ship + 3 Green Steel + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact -4 yugo pot)
Ref: 62 (13 base + 4 epic + 12 Dex + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence + 3 ship + 3 Green Steel + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact)
Will: 54 (10 base + 4 epic + 10 Wis + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence + 3 ship + 3 Green Steel + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact)

Epic Destiny -- Legendary Dreadnought

I: Extra Action Boost III (3), Legendary Tactics II (2),
II: Momentum Swing III (3), Improved Power Attack (2), Action Boost: Damage III (3)
III: Lay Waste (1),
VI: Anvil of Thunder (2)
V: Devasting Critical (2), Advancing blows (2)
VI: Masters Blitz (2), Pulverizer (2)
Twists: Sense Weakness (4), Balanced Attacks (3), Brace for Impact (1), Primal Scream (1)

Gear:

Trinket: Epic Litany [Eldrich Saves Ritual] (Yellow: Draconic Soul gem, Green: Open )/ PLIS
Head: Dragon Masque (Yellow: Blindness Ward; Colorless: DEX +8 )
Neck: Shroud of the Ardent (Yellow: iCHA, Green: iWIS )
Goggles: Glimpse of the Soul (Yellow: iSTR, Green: +250 SP)
Bracers: Epic Inferno (Yellow: iCON, Green: Heal +13)
Body: Shadow Dragon Plate (Blue: Golem’s Heart; Green: Open)
Cloak: GS Air/Earth/Positive, 10 HP +2 DEX skills, 15 HP +4 CON skills, 3 Resistance, +100 SP, +6 CHA skills, balance of land and sky / Jeweled Cloak
Ring: Ogre Power +10 of False Life +50
Ring: EE Consuming darkness (Green: GoTIB)
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (Blue: Good Luck +2; Green: Perform +15)
Gloves: EE Backstabbers (yellow: vitality +20)
Belt: Battle Ragers Harness (Green: CHA +8)
Weapon:
Thunder Forged Warhammer Touch of Flames/Dragon’s Edge/Mortal Fear (Orange: Meteoric Star Ruby)
Thunder Forged Warhammer 1st Degree Burns/Purple: Devotion 138/Mortal Fear (Orange: Meteoric Star Ruby)

DPS Calculations (approximation, have not verified through Bruntsmash test):

~2,088 Blitz | ~1,539 not blitzing | ~2,731 Haste Boosted ~2,339 MP Boosted| 5,472 helpless Haste Boost (15.8% balanced attack proc) 4,195 helpless

Melee Power: 112 = (24 epic power + 18 LD innate +70 Blitz)
Damage Mod: 91.6 = (+16 weapon [12+1 Enchant +3 PLs] + 11 deadly + 4 profane +32 Str +5 vanguard +5 power attack +5 Advancing Blows +2 song +3 past lives +4.6 growing storm +2 good hope)
Double Strike: 32% (+ 5% Perfect TWF +9% Epic PL +12% Item +6 Reckless song) |10% off-hand
Seeker: 22 (12 Seeker +2 LD +2 Purge +6 airship)
SA damage: 17 per swing (8 SA +9 iSA)
Deception proc: ~92.32% ((+ 10% improved deception +5% deception) ^~15.8 swings per 4 sec window) – 3.95 swings per sec

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WAIT! Why you no like Manyshot?

1. Without Slayer/Fury the DPS is really lacking...in a burst you are only looking at around a ~1200 damage...I do more with a sneeze.
2. There's no 2 feats I would trade for it, if keeping the split
3. Going 14/6 costs you Inspire Excellence, by comparison I find that a +2 to all stats (or +1 to ALL DCs) much more viable than the lackluster Manyshot
4. Ranger is only for Dance of Death...enough said ^^


That's a lot of grind...what about first life or new to DDO?

You'll need to hit the DEX requirements for iTWF and gTWF and the STR requirements for Power Attack. You can dump CHA, which mostly just adds to Frozen Fury and spell points for healing. So really you need to get DEX to 17, jack STR and apply CON.


Don't you Heal?

I have Cure Serious, usually that's plenty to keep me standing when face to face with something (Heal Scrolls in between combat). If you need more in combat healing twist in Rejuv Cocoon. Which you can do by not going sense weakness as you'll have to do additional epic TR grind to get to the 26 needed for a 4,3,1,1 split. You will lose DPS though.


What about this other shiny weapon?

Synergies. LD does a lot for war hammers, after you apply the affects, war hammers turn very nasty. Also skellies dont' like them ^^



If you have other questions, please ask.

Good luck and game on!

Excellent! Breathe of fresh air.

I would offer my own.

Same build design.

3 fighter 12 bard 5 ranger

36 tempest

30 warchanter

13 defender

Take magical training feat

Free heavy armor feat

One extra feat

Also, why take GC feat? Its a lose of DPs when twf especially with dod.

[MadCookieQueen]

Excellent! Breathe of fresh air.

I would offer my own.

Same build design.

3 fighter 12 bard 5 ranger

36 tempest

30 warchanter

13 defender

Take magical training feat

Free heavy armor feat

One extra feat

Also, why take GC feat? Its a lose of DPs when twf especially with dod.

A few considerations about the changes you want to make. However, if the changes suit your style better, by all means rock on!

If you go heavy armor how are you mitigating down the 35% ASF? The best you can do without Eldritch Knight is 30% (15% Augment and 15% Fluid Alacrity form Drow and Elven trees) So 5% of the time if you use a Cure spell you're going to fail and as luck would have it, it's always when you need that burst of healing to go off right that second.

If you plan to take Rejuv Cocoon, as I said it's a DPS loss or Defense loss if you remove Brace and you'll need Empower Healing to make it bigger. Also when champions hit you for 500+ damage even without doublestrike that temp 150 HP most likely isn't going to save you. Personally I prefer Maximize as it works with other spells.

Magical Training, IMHO is a waste of a feat slot, not when it's available for 3 AP (technically 4 if you count the point into the first Spellsinger Core) It grants you a bonus 80 SP and some light regen, worth it for a few AP but not as an entire feat. (again these are my opinions, YMMV)

Just remember what you're losing out for not having 15 Bard (5th level spells, spell points, GH because unless they changed something the GH song out of WC does NOT grant the fear immunity, longer song duration especially since you have no plans to take anything from the SS tree and 1 DC from Frozen Fury) and if you aren't taking Inspire Excellence, Lasting Inspiration may not make sense.

What would you take out of Defender? What would you take for the extra feat? Are you thinking of adding a ranged component to the build or are you looking at different weapons (which will require changes out of LD if you don't take warhammers)?

Great Cleave is taken at 6th level, it's EXTREMELY viable in heroic levels and it's another area attack (at 2[W] bonus) for when all your other things are on timer. Because it does happen. So I wouldn't couldn't consider it a DPS loss. However if you don't like the feat, swap it out when you hit Epic content.

[Nahiz]

+ 1 for building another great bard (my fav class): powerful AND tasty (flavor not disregarded :-)

[MadCookieQueen]

+ 1 for building another great bard (my fav class): powerful AND tasty (flavor not disregarded :-)

Thanks! Hopefully you'll get to try this one out ^^

[unbongwah]

Absolutely ZERO Swashbuckling

I realize APs are tight, but you might want to consider putting some into SB anyway; Blow by Blow, Deflect Arrows & Fast Movement (+15% run speed) work with any combat style or armor, AFAIK. Any idea if Tempest Imp Defense will stack with SB Deflect Arrows?

[MadCookieQueen]

I realize APs are tight, but you might want to consider putting some into SB anyway; Blow by Blow, Deflect Arrows & Fast Movement (+15% run speed) work with any combat style or armor, AFAIK. Any idea if Tempest Imp Defense will stack with SB Deflect Arrows?

Believe me I actually did try to work in some SB into this (for the reasons you mentioned and doublestrike)...but I didn't like some of the trade offs I was looking at for it. So I kind of shrugged and went "well...it's completely different and these days it's like a novelty to have a melee Bard without SB" ^^

I think the only things that turn off in SB if you go med or heavy armor or TWF is Swashbuckling itself (maybe one or two other things). I encourage anyone who wants to give this build a try to go ahead and customize options to your tastes. If you can get SB in there, comfortably, I'd love to see your AP selection lists.

I have no idea if Imp. Defense works with Deflect Arrows and to be honest, I've never bothered with Deflect Arrows, it never looked overly useful (not with displacement going), that's just me.

[CrackedIce]

A few considerations about the changes you want to make. However, if the changes suit your style better, by all means rock on!

If you go heavy armor how are you mitigating down the 35% ASF? The best you can do without Eldritch Knight is 30% (15% Augment and 15% Fluid Alacrity form Drow and Elven trees) So 5% of the time if you use a Cure spell you're going to fail and as luck would have it, it's always when you need that burst of healing to go off right that second.

If you plan to take Rejuv Cocoon, as I said it's a DPS loss or Defense loss if you remove Brace and you'll need Empower Healing to make it bigger. Also when champions hit you for 500+ damage even without doublestrike that temp 150 HP most likely isn't going to save you. Personally I prefer Maximize as it works with other spells.

Magical Training, IMHO is a waste of a feat slot, not when it's available for 3 AP (technically 4 if you count the point into the first Spellsinger Core) It grants you a bonus 80 SP and some light regen, worth it for a few AP but not as an entire feat. (again these are my opinions, YMMV)

Just remember what you're losing out for not having 15 Bard (5th level spells, spell points, GH because unless they changed something the GH song out of WC does NOT grant the fear immunity, longer song duration especially since you have no plans to take anything from the SS tree and 1 DC from Frozen Fury) and if you aren't taking Inspire Excellence, Lasting Inspiration may not make sense.

What would you take out of Defender? What would you take for the extra feat? Are you thinking of adding a ranged component to the build or are you looking at different weapons (which will require changes out of LD if you don't take warhammers)?

Great Cleave is taken at 6th level, it's EXTREMELY viable in heroic levels and it's another area attack (at 2[W] bonus) for when all your other things are on timer. Because it does happen. So I wouldn't couldn't consider it a DPS loss. However if you don't like the feat, swap it out when you hit Epic content.

Talk about getting ahead of oneself, I had forgotten about the spell penalty part of heavy armor. And you are right the intention was not to take cocoon for the reasons you say.

I was thinking about what you get from defender and the truth is 25 prr and +6 or 20% hp is not really on par with the three levels of bard that you would give up especially considering that skaldic rage and +2 strength from epic song feat already provides the +6 strength that defender could provide.

For a measly 25 prr that is not much of a trade. (when it was heavy armor, between the two, for me, the tradeoff made more sense)

(the magical training feat was to offset using the ap to gain defender and you did have one feat extra to burn, but as I said, completely spaced about the whole spell failure thing, carry on!)

[MadCookieQueen]

Talk about getting ahead of oneself, I had forgotten about the spell penalty part of heavy armor. And you are right the intention was not to take cocoon for the reasons you say.

I was thinking about what you get from defender and the truth is 25 prr and +6 or 20% hp is not really on par with the three levels of bard that you would give up especially considering that skaldic rage and +2 strength from epic song feat already provides the +6 strength that defender could provide.

For a measly 25 prr that is not much of a trade. (when it was heavy armor, between the two, for me, the tradeoff made more sense)

(the magical training feat was to offset using the ap to gain defender and you did have one feat extra to burn, but as I said, completely spaced about the whole spell failure thing, carry on!)

In truth when I first thought of this build I really wanted Heavy Armor, it made such a difference in the Shadovar Infiltrator build, that I was hoping to make it work. Until I realized that without EK I could not shave down that ASF. So don't worry about it...it's one of those things you forget ^^

If you have any other questions or ideas, please speak up, we benefit everyone with good discussions.

Good luck and game on!

[Zachski]

Looks like a pretty awesome build. Kinda reminds me of the Dervish Dancer archetype from pathfinder. Makes sense because it's a war dancer

Makes me ponder if a THF str-based Warchanter would be worth a go, as well. Though the problem is that all of the DC's are based off of Charisma...

[MadCookieQueen]

Looks like a pretty awesome build. Kinda reminds me of the Dervish Dancer archetype from pathfinder. Makes sense because it's a war dancer

Makes me ponder if a THF str-based Warchanter would be worth a go, as well. Though the problem is that all of the DC's are based off of Charisma...

You'd have to drop Ranger because Tempest is only viable on TWF....which kind of drops the war dancer feel.

To do THF strength based bard you'd have to go STR, CON, CHA as your base stats and add in INT because Know the Angles adds in an Insight bonus to the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Intelligence modifier (more than likely with decent INT would be a higher bonus that the +5 insightful from the ring). So going that route would pump up the DCs you'll need. Currently I'm about an 80% effective rate, which is pretty okay since it wasn't a main focus of the build.

Hope that helps. Game on!

[Caprice]

So the WC attacks count as Tactical feats for the purposes of Know the Angles? That's good to know.

I think you could build a strong THF WC off a Bard 15 / Fighter 3 +2 platform. It might be interesting to go INT-based via Harper and drop STR to the minimum needed for THF feats (hopefully <=14 w/a +3 or better tome). Going PDK and sticking to Greatswords for the CHA-to-damage enhancement (Cormyrean Knight Training) would let you build as CHA-focused for both meleeing and WC DCs. However that would be a very different build and should probably have its own separate thread.

[MadCookieQueen]

So the WC attacks count as Tactical feats for the purposes of Know the Angles? That's good to know.

I think you could build a strong THF WC off a Bard 15 / Fighter 3 +2 platform. It might be interesting to go INT-based via Harper and drop STR to the minimum needed for THF feats (hopefully <=14 w/a +3 or better tome), but it probably would be easier to go PDK and stick to Greatswords for the CHA-to-damage enhancement and build as CHA-focused for both meleeing and WC DCs. However that would be a very different build and should probably have its own separate thread.

I have not tested but thought they might on the basis that they feed off of the stunning modifiers...since stunning is a tactical thing, I figured anything that pumps it should affect these as well, also Frozen PDK Bards rely on the Cormyrean Knight Training (you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier) ability to add to their Frozen Fury.

I'll do some testing to verify that it does or doesn't.


I was just noodling around with a 15 Bard / 2 Fighter / 3 Sorc THF and Heavy Armor.

Drow: 14 str, 10 dex, 14 con, 17 int, 8 wisdom, 17 cha.

With EK, Drow Arcane and an ASF augment you can get the spell failure of heavy armor to nothing. So it would actually be viable. and cheap haste boost ftw ^^

I am also trying to avoid the usual CHA based PDK bard that seems to pop up like fertile bunnies ^^

Welcome anyone to give it a whirl.... game on!

[legendkilleroll]

My main is a PDK Cha based warchanter, KTA does work and affects the DC of frozen fuey and spinning ice

[MadCookieQueen]

My main is a PDK Cha based warchanter, KTA does work and affects the DC of frozen fuey and spinning ice

awesome! that solves that


If you need me I'll be working on an Ice Queen ^^

[Caprice]

If you need me I'll be working on an Ice Queen ^^

I'll admit that I don't usually like iced cookies that much, but I will try to keep an open mind.

[N-0cturn]

I like the build, but I would miss T5 WC too much to really consider it. Plus, I really like to be able to do traps.

That said I think that on a WC TWF is really better that SWF. When Lamania was up I did some DPS tests in eCabal and TWF seemed better. Pretty close though. Currently my plan is to go int-based TWF with 18 bard / 1 artificer / 1 barbarian. I am not entirely sure about the barb split... 3 ranger or 1 Fighter would be good options as well.

I wish Lamannia was up for more testing

[MadCookieQueen]

I like the build, but I would miss T5 WC too much to really consider it. Plus, I really like to be able to do traps.

That said I think that on a WC TWF is really better that SWF. When Lamania was up I did some DPS tests in eCabal and TWF seemed better. Pretty close though. Currently my plan is to go int-based TWF with 18 bard / 1 artificer / 1 barbarian. I am not entirely sure about the barb split... 3 ranger or 1 Fighter would be good options as well.

I wish Lamannia was up for more testing

I'd go fighter over barbarian. Being a feat tight class you'll get more room to breathe with fighter. Also cheap haste boost is always a benefit.

[N-0cturn]

I'd go fighter over barbarian. Being a feat tight class you'll get more room to breathe with fighter. Also cheap haste boost is always a benefit.

Yeah Fighter would have been nice as well but I lesser TRed today and barb/artificer are pretty amazing splits. The first from the Ravager tree works in Scaldic Rage. As long as I keep attacking that's +6 damage for 1AP and 3 more damage from the PA enchantment for 3 AP.

And Artificer 1 not only gives me the rogue skills, but also good ranged damage (heavy repeater + int to dmg from harper), Magical Training + int bonus SP and a lever puller.

So far I am really happy with the build.

EDIT:
Regarding DPS: I did a EE Cabal beatdown of the first boss before and after the lesser TR. Before (15B/3F/2R, SWF with Shield Mastery) it took about 61 seconds, afterwards only 49. There were also soom slight gear changes but I am convinced that on a WC TWF is at least as good or better than SWF.

[MadCookieQueen]

Yeah Fighter would have been nice as well but I lesser TRed today and barb/artificer are pretty amazing splits. The first from the Ravager tree works in Scaldic Rage. As long as I keep attacking that's +6 damage for 1AP and 3 more damage from the PA enchantment for 3 AP.

And Artificer 1 not only gives me the rogue skills, but also good ranged damage (heavy repeater + int to dmg from harper), Magical Training + int bonus SP and a lever puller.

So far I am really happy with the build.

EDIT:
Regarding DPS: I did a EE Cabal beatdown of the first boss before and after the lesser TR. Before (15B/3F/2R, SWF with Shield Mastery) it took about 61 seconds, afterwards only 49. There were also soom slight gear changes but I am convinced that on a WC TWF is at least as good or better than SWF.

As long as you are happy and having fun the build rocks then! It's not a combination I would have put together but it's definitely different. ^^

The TWF versus SWF is interesting and should at some point try out some DPS tests on it. However like all combat builds, it's really down to how you do it that can either maximize the combat abilities or limit them.

Good luck and game on!