A Tale of 2 Vanguards -- INT Based Swashbuckler and CHA/STR Based WarChanter

[MadCookieQueen]

Oddly Enough...I'm going to post without music...I'm blanking on a good song or two. So it's a build your own playlist style ^^

Well, my good and dear friend unbongwah...you wanted Vanguard ^^

As always feedback appreciated.



The Intelligent Striker -- INT Based Human

Class: Bard 14 / 2 Rogue / 4 Fighter (RBFRBBBBFFBFBBBBBBBB)
Race: Human


Abilities:

STR: 35/47 (+14 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +8 item +2 insightful +2 ship/+2 potion +4 tensers +6 psionics)

DEX: 33/35 (+12 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +8 item +2 insightful +2 ship/+2 potion)

CON: 38/44 (+14 base +6 tome +1 enh +2 litany +1 globe +10 item +2 insightful +2 ship/+2 potion +4 tensers)

INT: 54/56 (+18 base +6 tome +7 levels +1 enh +2 litany +1 globe +11 item +3 insightful +2 ship +3 destiny / +2 potion)

WIS: 29/31 (+8 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +8 item +2 insightful +2 ship/+2 potion)

CHA: 36/38 (+12 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +11 item +2 insightful +2 ship/ +2 potion)

Feats:

Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3, Bard x3

ETR: Doublestrike x3, Brace x3, Colors x3, Enchant Weapon X3, Energy Critical x3

Base: SWF(1), Precision (3), Weapon focus: Pierce (6), iSWF (9), IC: Pierce (12), gSWF (15), Improved Shield Mastery (18), Overwhelming (21), Quicken (24), Maximize or Emp Heal (27)

Human: Insightful Reflexes (1)

Fighter: Shield Mastery (3), Improved Shield Bash (9), Weapon Specialization: Pierce (12)

Destiny: pTWF (26), Lasting Inspiration (28)

Enhancements:
Vanguard (21 ap):

C: To the Fore (1), Shield Combat I (1)

I: Shield Smash (3), Shield Specialization (2),

II: Stunning Shield III (3), Brutality III (3), Shield Specialization (2), Missile Shield I (1)

III: Fatal Bulwark (2), Shield Specialization (2)

IV: Shield Charge I (1)

Stalwart Defender (13 ap):

C: Toughness (1), Stalwart Defense (1),

I: Improved Stalwart Defense: PRR III (3), Stalwart Defense Mastery II (2)

II: Improved Sacred Defense: Saves III (3)

III: Tenacious Defense III (3)

Harper (12 AP):

C: Agent of Good I (1), INT 1 (2)

I: Strategic Combat (2), Harper Enchantment (2)

II: KtA III (3)

III: Strategic Combat II (2)

Swashbuckler (34 AP):

C : Confidence (1), Swashbuckling (1), Uncanny Dodge(1), Panache(1)

I: On Your Toes III (3), Blow by Blow III (3)

II: Fast Movement (2), Action Boost Doublestrike III (6), Sword Dance I (2)

III: Elegant Footwork (2), Style: Skirmisher (1), Resonant Arms (6)

IV: Low Blow (1)

V: Exploit Weakness (2), Thread the Needle

Skills:

Max: Perform, UMD, Disable, Search, Concentrate, Balance at 23 ranks; Heal at 11. Extra points where ever.

Perform: 72 (+14 CHA, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship +20 Item)

UMD: 50 (+14 CHA, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +2 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship)

Disable: 98 (+24 INT, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship +20 Item +6 exceptional +4 ED)

Search: 98 (+24 INT, +23 Ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship +20 item +6 exceptional +4 ED)

Heal: 59 (+11 WIS, +11 Ranks, +8 epic, +4 tome, +2 luck, +4 GH, +1 profane (spider mask), +3 ship +15 Item)

Stunning Shield: 91 (10 + 23 INT +28 CL +11 KtA + 12 Stun +3 enh +3 PLs)


Core Stats:

HP: 936/1020 (+157 levels, +80 epic, +392 CON +13 enhancement +10 draconic, +40 false life, +15 autogrant, +33 pl, +20 vitality +156 Stalwart / +476 buffed Con)

SP: 1011 (+400 base, +336 CHA, +250 item, +25 ship)

Positive Spell Power: +392 (+138 Devotion +59 heal skill +15 guild +150 maximize, +45 Universal)

Healing Amp: 255% ((30 pally PLs +20 guild +45 +60) +100) / 100

PRR: 125 ( +18 PLs +31 enh +30 sheltering +5 feats +36 armor +15 ED)

Fort: 185% (130 Item + 40% brace for impact +15% ship)

Saves:

Fort: 60 (8 base + 4 epic + 15 CON + 4 morale +11 resistance + 2 luck + 3 competence + 3 ship +1enh ship + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact -4 yugo pot)

Ref: 78 (13 base + 4 epic + 23 INT + 4 morale +11 resistance + 2 luck + 3 competence + 3 ship +1enh ship + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact)

Will: 57 (10 base + 4 epic + 10 Wis + 4 morale +11 resistance + 2 luck + 3 competence + 3 ship +1enh ship + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact)

Epic Destiny -- Shadow Dancer

I: Technician (2), INT (2)

II: Lithe (3), INT (2)

III: Grim Precision III(3), Meld into Darkness II(2), Shrouding Strike III(3), INT (2)

V: Executioner Strike III (3), Sealed Soul (2)

Twists: Action Boost: Haste (3), Brace for Impact (1), Legendary Shield Mastery(2), Extra Action Boost(1)

Gear:

Trinket: Epic Litany [eldrich saves ritual] (Green: Good Luck +2 | Yellow: Draconic Soul Gem) | PLIS

Head: Dragon Masque (Yellow: STR +8 | Colorless: +2 iSTR )

Neck: Shroud of the Ardent (Green: WIS +8 | Yellow: iWIS +2)

Goggles: Intricate Field Optics +3iINT (Yellow: Blindness Immunity | Green: OPEN)

Bracers: Bracers of Twisting Shade

Body: Flawless Shadow Dragonhide: Shadow Killer (Green: Golemn's Heart |Blue: False Life 40)

Cloak: Mysterious Cloak: 45 HA and 25 MRR (Green: iCON +2 | Colorless: Vitality)

Ring: Epic Beholder (Green: DEX +8 | Yellow: iDEX +2 )

Ring: Heatlh +10, Dodge +10

Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (Green: concentration +15 | Yellow: Heal +15)

Gloves: EE Backstabbers (Yellow: Anthem Colorless: Open Lock +15 )

Belt: Epic Chord of Reprisals (Green: Globe of Imperial True Blood | Yellow: iCHA +2) | Skullduggery Kit

Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity

Weapon: Thunder Forged Rapier 1st Degree Burns/Dragon’s Edge/Mortal Fear (Orange: Meteoric Star Ruby | Red: Devotion 138 | Colorless: )

Shield: Epic Swashbuckler (Blue: OPEN)

[MadCookieQueen]

The Charming Brute -- This one had been updated so that it does not calculate not rely on a game mechanic bug

Class Split: 16 Bard / 4 Fighter BFFBBBBBBBBFFBBBBBBB
Race: Human


Abilities:

STR: 40/54 (+15 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +10 item +2 insightful +2 ship +2 ED/+2 potion +2 song +6 psionic +4 tensers)

DEX: 32/40 (+8 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +11 item +2 insightful +2 ship/+2 potion +2 song +4 tensers)

CON: 40/48 (+16 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +11 item +2 insightful +2 ship/+2 potion +2 song +4 tensers)

INT: 34/38 (+10 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +11 item +2 insightful +2 ship / +2 potion +2 song)

WIS: 30/34 (+8 base +6 tome +2 litany +1 globe +11 item +2 ship/+2 potion +2 song)

CHA: 50/54 (+18 base +6 tome +7 levels +2 litany +1 enh +1 globe +11 item +2 insightful +2 ship/ +2 potion +2 song)

Feats:

Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3, Bard x3

ETR: Doublestrike x3, Brace x3, Colors x3, Enchant Weapon X3, Energy Critical x3

Feats THF (1), Shield Mastery (3), iSB (6), iTHF (9), IC; Slashing (12), gTHF (15), Quicken(18), Overwhelming (21), Emp. Heal or Maximize (24), Inspire Excellence (27)

Human: Power Attack (1)

Fighter: Cleave (2), Exotic Bastard Swords (3) Improved Shield Mastery (12)

Destiny: pTWF (26), pTHF (28)

Skills:
Perform (23), Heal (11), UMD(23)


Enhancements:
Vanguard (19 ap):

C: To the Fore (1), Shield Combat I (1)

I: Shield Smash (3), Shield Specialization (2),

II: Stunning Shield III (3), Brutality III (3), Shield Specialization (2)

III: Fatal Bulwark (2), Shield Specialization (2)

Stalwart Defender (13 ap):

C: Toughness (1), Stalwart Defense (1),

I: Improved Stalwart Defense: PRR III (3), Stalwart Defense Mastery II (2)

II: Improved Sacred Defense: Saves III (3)

III: Tenacious Defense III (3)

War Chanter (36 ap):

C: Skaldic Rage (1), Weapon training (1), Song of Heroism (1), Victory song (1)

I: Enchant Weapon (2), Rough and Ready III (3)

II: Iced Edges III (3), Sprint Boost III (3)

III: Ironskin Chant III (3), Frozen Fury III (3)

IV: Reckless Chant I (1), Northwind III (6), Armorer (2)

V: Chant of Power III (3), Spinning Ice III (3)

Harper (8 ap)

C: Agent of Good (1), Harper Training CHA (2)

I: Harper Enchantment (2), Traveler’s Toughness (3)

II: Know the Angles III (3)

Spell Singer (4 ap)

C: Spell Singer (1)

I: Lingering Songs (3)

Core Stats:

HP: 1070/1182 (161 levels, +80 epic, +420 CON, +43 enhancements, +10 draconic, +50 false life, +15 autogrant, +33 primal past life, +20 vitality +166 stalwart +60 ED / +532 CON)

SP: 1410 (425 base, +770 CHA, +25 ship, +250 item +20 enh)

Positive Spell Power: 303 (138 Devotion +15 guild +150 maximize)

Healing Amp: 255% ((30 pally PLs + 60 Ardent, +45 Cloak +20 guild) +100) / 100

PRR: 164 (20 Armor +12 Proficiency + 30 sheltering +27 enhancements +18 PLs +45 ED +5 shield +7 Feat) Mitigation: 37.9%

Fort: 185% (130 Item + 40% brace for impact +15% ship)

Doublestrike 41% (+9 ePL, +8 sheats, +6 enh, +7 ED +6 item, +5 pTWF)

Spinning Ice: 81 (14 base, +22 cha, +8 bard levels, +12 item, +7 know the angles, +3 fighter pl, +3 enh +1 ship, +6 ED, +5 combat mastery)
Frozen Fury: 77 (10 base, +22 cha, +8 bard levels, +12 item, +7 know the angles, +3 fighter pl, +3 enh +1 ship, +6 ED, +5 combat mastery)
Stunning Shield: 97 (10 + 22 cha +28 CL +7 KtA + 12 Stun +3 enh +3 PLs +6 ED, +5 combat mastery)


Saves:

Fort: 67 (10 base + 4 epic + 19 con + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence +3 enh + 3 ship + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact +4 insightful)

Ref: 73 (13 base + 4 epic + 15 DEX + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence +3 enh + 3 ship + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact +4 insightful +1 Haste +6 unearthly)

Will: 63 (13 base + 4 epic + 12 Wis + 4 morale + 11 resistance + 2 luck + 1 competence +3 enh + 3 ship + 3 brace + 2 brace for impact +4 insightful)

Epic Destiny – Legendary Dreadnought

I: Extra Action Boost III (3), Legendary Tactics III (3), STR (2)

II: Improved Power Attack (2), STR (2)

III: Action Boost: Haste III (3), Critical Damage III (3)

IV:

V: Advancing Blows (2), Devastating Criticals (2)

VI: Master's Blitz -- PRR (2)

Twists: Sense Weakness (4), Legendary Shield mastery (2), Brace for Impact (1), Unearthly reflexes (1)

Gear:

Trinket: Epic Litany [eldrich saves ritual] (Yellow: , Green: )/ PLIS

Head: Deific Diadam (Yellow: ; Green: )

Neck: Shroud of the Ardent (Yellow: , Green: )

Goggles: Epic Mentau's (Yellow/Blue: iSTR +2 Green iWIS +2)

Bracers: Epic Ethereal Bracers (Blue: Good Luck +2 , Green: iINT +2)

Body: Shadow Dragon Medium (Blue: Golem’s Heart; Green: )

Cloak: Mysterious Cloak (Green: Vitality +20 Colorless: iCHA +2 ) / Jeweled Cloak

Ring: Ogre Power +10 of False Life +50

Ring: Seal of House Avithoul +2iDEX

Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (Yellow: Blindness Immunity, Green: Spell Points +250)

Gloves: Gauntlets of Immortality (Yellow: iCON +2 Colorless: Perform +15)

Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance (Yellow: GoTIB Green: Draconic Soul Gem )

Weapon: Thunder Forged Bastard Sword 1st degree/Dragons Edge/Mortal Fear (Red: Meteroic Star Ruby)

Shield: Sliver Lining (Red: Devotion +138 Purple: Meteroic Star Ruby )

[unbongwah]

Well, my good and dear friend unbongwah...you wanted Vanguard ^^

Why am I having Max Payne flashbacks? "Max, dearest of all my friends..."

[MadCookieQueen]

Why am I having Max Payne flashbacks? "Max, dearest of all my friends..."

I was thinking more like Babylon 5...Londo Molari was great for saying "my good and dear friend"

[voodoogroves]

On the first, a question.

If it weren't for heroic evasion ... what about Arti 2 instead of rogue since you plan on sitting mostly in shadowdancer? Feat, repeaters if you need them, magical training ...

EDIT: meh, rapid reload is granted, it's not movable. Ok maybe not the best idea.

[MadCookieQueen]

On the first, a question.

If it weren't for heroic evasion ... what about Arti 2 instead of rogue since you plan on sitting mostly in shadowdancer? Feat, repeaters if you need them, magical training ...

EDIT: meh, rapid reload is granted, it's not movable. Ok maybe not the best idea.

Evasion being the big one as to why you would want Rogue in heroics Also if you want to level other destinies...you have evasion already so you aren't dependent on staying in Shadow Dancer for the ability. so there's flexibility there.

There are other trade offs to look at:

-3 Reflex save but gain +3 will...I have FoM not worried about disco balls and the like, so the bonus to will isn't worth the reflex loss
-1d6 sneak attack

Magical training...you can get this for 3 AP (4 including core) out of spell singer...you could trade in some Vanguard for it and still be fairly well built, but I wouldn't give up evasion to get it for free.

I couldn't see repeaters working out with a shield oriented build and it would likely be an overall DPS loss.

[unbongwah]

For comparison's sake, this was the build I mentioned earlier that I was using as a testbed:

PDK VG Swashie
16/3/1 Bard/Fighter/Barbarian
True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight


Level Order

1. Fighter. . . . .6. Bard. . . . . .11. Bard . . . . . 16. Bard
2. Bard . . . . . .7. Bard. . . . . .12. Fighter. . . . 17. Bard
3. Bard . . . . . .8. Bard. . . . . .13. Bard . . . . . 18. Bard
4. Bard . . . . . .9. Barbarian . . .14. Bard . . . . . 19. Bard
5. Bard . . . . . 10. Bard. . . . . .15. Fighter. . . . 20. Bard


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .9 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . +3. . . .4: CHA
Dexterity . . . 10 . . . 10. . . .10 . . . +3. . . .8: CHA
Constitution. . 14 . . . 14. . . .13 . . . +3. . . 12: CHA
Intelligence. . 16 . . . 16. . . .17 . . . +3. . . 16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . +3. . . 20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 17 . . . 18. . . .18 . . . +3. . . 24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.1 PDK. . : Shield Mastery
.1 Fighter: Single Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Quicken Spell
.6. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Precision
12 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
21 Epic . : Inspire Excellence
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
27 Epic . : 
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)

Damage Boost
Cormyrean Knight Training

Warchanter (33 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit
Poetic Edda III, Enchant Weapon, Rough and Ready III
Iced Edges III
Ironskin Chant III, Frozen Fury III
Reckless Chant III, Northwind III
Spinning Ice III

Swashbuckler (11 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling
On Your Toes I, Blow By Blow: Melee III
Fast Movement, Double Strike Boost I
Skirmisher

Vanguard (13 AP)

To the Fore!
Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield I
Follow Up III

Stalwart Defender (13 AP)

Toughness, Stalwart Defense
Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
Tenacious Defense III

Harper Agent (7 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles II

Like I said, APs are really tight; I get just the bare minimum of what I want from PrEs. I could drop SD from 13 to 6 APs; give up +20% HPs and +3 saves to shift 7 APs elsewhere.

Barb splash was just for +10% run speed, which stacks with Swashie Fast Movement; it would also stack with Sprint Boost or Expeditious Chant, if I had the APs for it.

[BoBoDaClown]

The Charming Brute

Class Split: 16 Bard / 3 Fighter / 1 FvS BFFvSBBBBBBBBFFBBBBBBB
Race: Human

One of my builds is somewhat similar to this one in terms of ideas. Some differences:

12/6/2 Bard fighter Rogue (but the rogue are non-functional legacy levels). I would prefer 14/6 or 15/5

ENHANCEMENTS:
Stalwart 24: Picking up +6 Str and 20% Hp
Warchanter 38: Chant of Power/Spinning Ice/Howl of North
Vanguard 10: Stunning Shield, Melee Power Boost 20
Harper 8: KTA

Dwarf Axe (character happens to be a dwarf), Medium Armour, Slotted Large Shields (might experiment with hot swapping tower shields to cast displace - I don't think I cast any other short term spells - if I use cacoon).

Stalwart for tankiness
Warchanter - I want my bards to offer top rate buffing, along with the dps options
Vanguard - Another stun, bit of extra dps
Harper: ...

Literally about to LR into it. Will start playing it in the next couple of days.

Long-term I could probably consider a divine level for DM, such as 15/4/1, but would need to see my ICE DCs are high enough without KTA

[MadCookieQueen]

For comparison's sake, this was the build I mentioned earlier that I was using as a testbed:

PDK VG Swashie
16/3/1 Bard/Fighter/Barbarian
True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight


Level Order

1. Fighter. . . . .6. Bard. . . . . .11. Bard . . . . . 16. Bard
2. Bard . . . . . .7. Bard. . . . . .12. Fighter. . . . 17. Bard
3. Bard . . . . . .8. Bard. . . . . .13. Bard . . . . . 18. Bard
4. Bard . . . . . .9. Barbarian . . .14. Bard . . . . . 19. Bard
5. Bard . . . . . 10. Bard. . . . . .15. Fighter. . . . 20. Bard


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .9 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . +3. . . .4: CHA
Dexterity . . . 10 . . . 10. . . .10 . . . +3. . . .8: CHA
Constitution. . 14 . . . 14. . . .13 . . . +3. . . 12: CHA
Intelligence. . 16 . . . 16. . . .17 . . . +3. . . 16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . +3. . . 20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 17 . . . 18. . . .18 . . . +3. . . 24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.1 PDK. . : Shield Mastery
.1 Fighter: Single Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Quicken Spell
.6. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Precision
12 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
21 Epic . : Inspire Excellence
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
27 Epic . : 
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)

Damage Boost
Cormyrean Knight Training

Warchanter (33 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit
Poetic Edda III, Enchant Weapon, Rough and Ready III
Iced Edges III
Ironskin Chant III, Frozen Fury III
Reckless Chant III, Northwind III
Spinning Ice III

Swashbuckler (11 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling
On Your Toes I, Blow By Blow: Melee III
Fast Movement, Double Strike Boost I
Skirmisher

Vanguard (13 AP)

To the Fore!
Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield I
Follow Up III

Stalwart Defender (13 AP)

Toughness, Stalwart Defense
Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
Tenacious Defense III

Harper Agent (7 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles II

Like I said, APs are really tight; I get just the bare minimum of what I want from PrEs. I could drop SD from 13 to 6 APs; give up +20% HPs and +3 saves to shift 7 APs elsewhere.

Barb splash was just for +10% run speed, which stacks with Swashie Fast Movement; it would also stack with Sprint Boost or Expeditious Chant, if I had the APs for it.

The Vanguard builds are severly AP tight. A bit annoying but it's still workable (not by much!) Giving up 20% HP is difficult but you could put those AP back into Warchanter for Howl and Power. It becomes a trade off of offense versus defense. I like defense a bit more, but for the offense person it's not really horrible.

I don't' know if I would take Barbarian just for 10% run speed, it just doesn't seem as useful as other class splashes...like Cleric or FvS for Divine Might (gotta love having strength for them shields) and diety based bonuses; a fourth fighter gets you another feat (i'd swap insightful for weapon focus and then take weapon specialization as the fighter feat)....you get the hint.

So if you went tower shields are are you mitigating down the ASF? It ranges form 40 - 50, depending on shield or do you plan to gear swap each time you need to cast something? (for me I would totally forget to do this and end up dead when my healing didn't go off)

As a note...you'll want more STR...you won't hit much with your shield (CKT and KtA do NOT work on shields) so your to hit with a shield is going to be really low.

[MadCookieQueen]

One of my builds is somewhat similar to this one in terms of ideas. Some differences:

12/6/2 Bard fighter Rogue (but the rogue are non-functional legacy levels). I would prefer 14/6 or 15/5

ENHANCEMENTS:
Stalwart 24: Picking up +6 Str and 20% Hp
Warchanter 38: Chant of Power/Spinning Ice/Howl of North
Vanguard 10: Stunning Shield, Melee Power Boost 20
Harper 8: KTA

Dwarf Axe (character happens to be a dwarf), Medium Armour, Slotted Large Shields (might experiment with hot swapping tower shields to cast displace - I don't think I cast any other short term spells - if I use cacoon).

Stalwart for tankiness
Warchanter - I want my bards to offer top rate buffing, along with the dps options
Vanguard - Another stun, bit of extra dps
Harper: ...

Literally about to LR into it. Will start playing it in the next couple of days.

Long-term I could probably consider a divine level for DM, such as 15/4/1, but would need to see my ICE DCs are high enough without KTA

Are you CHA or STR or INT based?

[unbongwah]

I don't' know if I would take Barbarian just for 10% run speed, it just doesn't seem as useful as other class splashes...like Cleric or FvS for Divine Might (gotta love having strength for them shields)

I didn't consider shield bashing to be a meaningful source of DPS on the build I posted; hence no Imp Shield Bash (+20% proc chance) nor lvl 3 VG core (+10% proc chance). So Div Might isn't much use, considering I'm going the CHA+KtA-to-dmg route for my mainhand. [Presuming Turbine fixes the DM/KtA bug in our lifetime!]

This build actually started out as an Ultimate Zerger (hence the barb splash), until I discovered that Swift Defense and Expeditious Chant / Sprint Boost don't stack. So I tweaked it a bit for its current state. Like I said, it's just a testbed / work-in-progress.

a fourth fighter gets you another feat (i'd swap insightful for weapon focus and then take weapon specialization as the fighter feat)....you get the hint.

Spending feats for static DPS bonuses (+2 dmg, +4 Melee Power) bores me; I'm more interested in greater versatility from, e.g., lvl 6 spells than I am in a bit more DPS. It's not like the average DC or LD Swashie is hurting for DPS, after all! Plus bard 15->16 gets me +1 to WC DCs; since I can't afford much if any DC-boosting enhancements, I thought that might be a little more useful.

If I was doing this "for real," I might be willing to splurge on an LR +1 to take a rog splash instead, but not as a little side experiment.

So if you went tower shields are are you mitigating down the ASF?

This is a standard SWF Swashie, so lt armor and bucklers only.

As a note...you'll want more STR...you won't hit much with your shield (CKT and KtA do NOT work on shields) so your to hit with a shield is going to be really low.

Between Precision, Inspire Courage, STR bonuses, and maybe an Accuracy item, I'm not exactly worried about my to-hit. I figure if the Count can dump STR and do well, I should be fine.

[MadCookieQueen]

This is a standard SWF Swashie, so lt armor and bucklers only.

My fault I was reading 2 different posts and thought you had the tower shield comment. So ignore me on that one.

I didn't consider shield bashing to be a meaningful source of DPS on the build I posted; hence no Imp Shield Bash (+20% proc chance) nor lvl 3 VG core (+10% proc chance). So Div Might isn't much use, considering I'm going the CHA+KtA-to-dmg route for my mainhand. [Presuming Turbine fixes the DM/KtA bug in our lifetime!]

I wouldn't have thought so either about the shield bash until I played a vanguard...it does really come in handy. So I try to include that in my DPS estimations.

Spending feats for static DPS bonuses (+2 dmg, +4 Melee Power) bores me; I'm more interested in greater versatility from, e.g., lvl 6 spells than I am in a bit more DPS. It's not like the average DC or LD Swashie is hurting for DPS, after all! Plus bard 15->16 gets me +1 to WC DCs; since I can't afford much if any DC-boosting enhancements, I thought that might be a little more useful.

There's a disconnect here...I was talking about other things you could do instead of 1 barbarian...I wasn't thinking about dropping you down to 15 levels of bard.

[BoBoDaClown]

Are you CHA or STR or INT based?

Str.

Dwarf
Str: 16 + lvls
Con: 18
Int: 14
Cha: 14

I haven't actually had a chance to do the LR yet - was going to last night, but they are the stats I'm looking at.

My Ice Stuns would be a bit behind yours due to this. I like what you've done with DM+KTA- but I thought that were anti-requisites?

If they're not, I might play around with my stats and enhancements a little more. Perhaps focus more on charisma like your build.

I'd have to iconic TR, should probably go PSK, but they be ugly, so might go ML, 15/4/1 Bard Fighter Cleric. I'd really have to look hard at my feats (would lose two -dwarf axe and 1 fighter) and enhancements would be tighter:
ENHANCEMENTS:
Stalwart 21: Picking up +6 Str and Swift Defense
Warchanter 38: Chant of Power/Spinning Ice/Howl of North
Vanguard 10: Stunning Shield, Melee Power Boost 20
Harper 8: KTA
WarPriest: 3 - DM2

I'd lose feats, 20% HP (although I could swap that if needed -not locked in), lower starting con
I'd gain higher DM str, higher cha based attacks

[unbongwah]

I like what you've done with DM+KTA- but I thought that were anti-requisites?

Officially they are, but right now they're bugged and you can take both and they stack. So the second build would have to be tweaked if/when Turbine fixes this.

[MadCookieQueen]

Omg. I completely missed the dm + kta issue.

That's totally an error in my part and I'll be looking through the build to correct it.

I have a "don't count on a bug" rule for my builds and I missed this one. I'll do some math comparisons and get this fixed.

Thanks for catching that!

[BoBoDaClown]

So if you went tower shields are are you mitigating down the ASF? It ranges form 40 - 50, depending on shield or do you plan to gear swap each time you need to cast something? (for me I would totally forget to do this and end up dead when my healing didn't go off)

My dude is definitely going to go large shields (they're only 15% ASF - so blue augment), perhaps Tower (I was figuring I would normally only be swapping for displace - a big reason why I would want extend. I would use cacoon for healing).

[BoBoDaClown]

Sorry to do derail your thread, but there do seem to be similar thought process going into these build.

After hearing about the KTA and DM stacking, I think I might Iconic into Morning Lord. It's not a biggie if they remove the stacking; I would have to LR to rejig my stats to remove the high int and I would lose 5 or so ice DCs.

I'd love thoughts on the below:

13/6/1 Bard Fighter Cleric
Wielding Dwarven Axe, Large/Tower Shields, Medium Armour.

I want DPS, good bard buffs, CC, Healing, tankishness

This toon isn't my main and doesn't have above +3 tomes yet - these numbers are purely estimates.
It would look something like:
Str: 16 +3 tome +15 items +2 yugo +2 pot +2 guild +1 destiny +18 DM = 59
Con: 14
Int: 18 + 10 item +2 pot +2 guild +3 tome +1 exceptional +2 exc = 38 (+8 KTA)
Cha: 16 + 7 levels + 3 tome + 15 items +2 pot +2 guild +2 yugo = 47

FEATS (out of order)
1) PA
3) Cleave
6) Insightful Reflexes
9) Great Cleave
12) Shield Mastery
15) Improve Crit
18) Improve Shield Mastery

F1) THF
F2) ITHF
F3) GTHF
F4: Dwarven Axes

21) OC
24) Empower Healing
27) Improved Shield Bash

26) Tactician
28) Perfect TWF

ENHANCEMENTS:
Stalwart 21: 20% Hp + Speed
Warchanter 38: Chant of Power/Spinning Ice/Howl of North
Vanguard 10: Stunning Shield, Melee Power Boost 20
Harper 7: KTA 2
WarPriest 4: DM 3

HPS
Should be 1050-1150ish in LD. Maybe 300 more in US.

DEFENCE
High PRR/MRR Due to shield and armour use
Insightful Reflexes
Other standard stuff (displace, dodge, ghostly)

BUFFS
Almost full War Chanter line (missing capstone)

TWISTS
Sense Weakness, Cacoon, Legendary Shield Mastery

CC
Unbalancing Shove: Shield bashes reduce saves by 1
Stunning Shield: Over 100 DC 30 sec cool down
Anvil of Thunder: Crit Stun
Freezing Ice: Single Target Stun: 10 + 18 cha +8KTA +3tactics +18 items +6 destiny +2 epic tactics +1 armour +1 guild +1 PL +6 bard levels = 74
Spinning Ice: 78
Northwind: Stun every 18 seconds if maxed (on vorpal)

DPS
Legendary Dreadnought
Stunned Mobs + Sense Weakness
Dip into Vanguard -minor shield bashes and attack speed
Warchanter Buffs
Standard Dwarven Axe: 19-20/6
THF Feat Line
Shield Mastery Line
Legendary SM Twist

NOTE
I might drop Spinning Ice one rank to bump KTA to 3.

Thoughts?

[unbongwah]

Str: 16 +3 tome +15 items +2 yugo +2 pot +2 guild +1 destiny +18 DM = 59
Con: 14
Int: 18 + 10 item +2 pot +2 guild +3 tome +1 exceptional +2 exc = 38 (+8 KTA)
Cha: 16 + 7 levels + 3 tome + 15 items +2 pot +2 guild +2 yugo = 47

Mind explaining where you're getting 40 build pts? Sun elf: 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 40. I'll presume you meant CON 12...

Stalwart 21: 20% Hp + Speed
Warchanter 38: Chant of Power/Spinning Ice/Howl of North

FYI, Swift Defense doesn't stack with Expeditious Chant nor Sprint Boost; they're all typed as Action Boost bonuses. So you may be better off dropping SD to 13 APs (+20% HPs) and taking Expeditious Chant instead. If you can free enough APs, take Fast Movement from Swashbuckler.

Vanguard 10: Stunning Shield, Melee Power Boost 20

I recommend picking up Follow Up as well, for the free Melee Power boost every time you use Stunning Shield.

Standard Dwarven Axe: 19-20/6

This will be x7 in LD: Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit + Headman's Chop + Howl of the North.

[ArchStriker]

I'm a noob so please help me here but: example

///////
Feats:
Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3, Bard x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3, Brace x3, Colors x3, Enchant Weapon X3, Energy Critical x3
Feats THF (1), Shield Mastery (3), iSB (6), iTHF (9), IC; Slashing (12), gTHF (15), Quicken(18), Overwhelming (21), Emp. Heal or Maximize (24), Inspire Excellence (27)
Human: Power Attack (1)
Fighter: Exotic Bastard Swords (2), Improved Shield Mastery (12)
Destiny: pTWF (26), pTHF (28)
///////

WHy if you're using a one handed weapon would you take THF? I see this a lot, and I don't know why, please help, thanks!

[MadCookieQueen]

WHy if you're using a one handed weapon would you take THF? I see this a lot, and I don't know why, please help, thanks!

Glancing Blows, THF fighting increases those for Bastard Swords