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Thread: Melee Dworflock

  1. #1
    The Hatchery Zoda's Avatar
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    Default Melee Dworflock

    Came back from a 4 months break and decided that now I'm a causal flavor builder. I built this:

    True Neutral Dwarf 20 Warlock

    Stats:
    STR 10
    DEX 14
    CON 20
    INT 16
    WIS 8
    CHA 6


    Enhancements:
    18 Dwarf - TYWA
    41 Enlightened Spirit - capstone, spirit burst 3, shining through
    7 Harper - strategic combat 1, KTA rank2
    8 Tainted Scholar - Utterdark Blast, 2 core
    6 Souleater - 2 core, 3 hungry for destruction


    Feats: (1 pact 7 heroic 3 epic 2 destimy)
    Fiend
    TWF
    iTWF
    gTWF
    IC: piercing
    PA
    Maximize
    Empower


    OC
    Quicken
    epic blast


    epic arcane blast
    PTWF

    Main Destiny: crusader (should work fine in LD too with some minor modifications)
    twists: Radiant Power, Primal Scream + Haste Boost/balanced attacks -OR- Prism/Double Rainbow -OR- Haste Boost/extra action boost


    Gear: (might not be optimal, haven't given it that much thought)
    Helm: Sightless
    Cloak: Land and Sky hp/hp/sp int skills 6
    Boots: Boots of Blessed Travels
    Bracer: Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying
    Armor: Shadowscale 3% ds//TOEE
    Necklace: Mystic Eidolons
    Ring1: Strange Tidings
    Ring2: Lantern Ring
    Goggles: Epic Mentau's
    Trinket: Epic Litany
    Gloves: Samctified Gages

    Weapons: TF heavy pick x2 -OR- TF + TOEE heavy picks (heard that there might some issue about vulnerability stacking this way, will have to find out)

    Here is how it works in action in e/e Ranks: (10:22 completion time in this vid, not too bad)
    (also shows destinies/character sheet/enhancements)
    Last edited by Zoda; 08-26-2015 at 11:57 AM.
    Main: Zodaroth - heroic & epic completionist pure dwarven warlock
    Alts: Zodynkar (caster), Zodirkeal (archer), Zodinn (lab rat)
    ---- Death N Taxes -------------------------------------------------------Argo -----

  2. #2
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Hey Zoda!

    Also came back after a break lasting around 3 updates and also looking into a melee 'lock. I was trying to convince Shoikan yesterday to craft one of this instead of going cheesy barb :P

    Anyway, I figured I would post here a bunch of questions that I have regarding 'locks, since the theme of the post is melee locks anyway:


    1. DPS from aura and bursts: has anyone done transparent reliable calculations of the damage you can expect from those?

    2. DPS from melee: again, has anyone run some numbers for warlocks? Grailhawk style, I mean.

    3. FVS+fighter / pure warlock: I went with PDK and 18/1/1 split. The idea is using divine might and two kopeshes instead of SWF or long swords (or picks).

    - TWF is a no brainer? : given that you may have access to ToEE sets and the fact that light damage is on hit. Orb and b-sword / kopesh does not seem even close. Anyone disagreeing?

    - Divine might + scorge vs ES capstone?: I think it will be easier to pump a good damage stat via DM than simply using PDK CHA to damage. Granted, it locks more slots than simply CHA to dmg, but it allows for a superior crit profile with kopeshes instead of long/short/b swords. For instance (and I haven't listed everything you could have here):

    STR: Initial stat+11 item + 1 GOTIB + 5 tome + 2 ship + 2 excep + 2 morale (rage) + 20 DM (reachable, could be more) + 4 profane tenser's (does not affect aura / slas)= 47+ initial stat.

    Scorge more than covers the ES SP capstone, you do lose the HPs and melee power.
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 08-16-2015 at 04:39 AM. Reason: Added tenser's

  3. #3
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    I still think that melee-focused warlocks arent that great, getting there costs too much AP and in the end they will have a lowish crit profile... the biggest upside from going all con is the high HP combined with brilliance/shining through but my drow warlock with 14 base con doesnt exactly have survivability problems at point blank range so that much HP/temp HP is probably overkill.

    A point blank caster (with ES capstone) has barely enough AP for the soul eater goodies and utterdark blast, and doesnt have much time for swinging in between the rotation of eldritch burst, spirit blast, stricken, consume, divine wrath and energy burst. I actually do swing on my warlock, but mainly for getting the vulnerability stacks from strickened form up quickly.

    The ES capstone is great, and you also get 1 blast and 1 pact dice at lvl 20. Hurl through Hell DC is also based on warlock level. ES capstone is 30 light spellpower (and 10 for your pact) so all scourge gives you is 20 spellpower on your pact damage once its up and running. Most of your damage comes from base blast damage (should be evil) and light damage, though.

    My plan for occasional melee is cha to damage weapons (Dynastic Falcata, Elyd Edge), although at higher levels Ill go back to TF.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  4. #4
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makkuroi View Post
    I still think that melee-focused warlocks arent that great, getting there costs too much AP and in the end they will have a lowish crit profile... the biggest upside from going all con is the high HP combined with brilliance/shining through but my drow warlock with 14 base con doesnt exactly have survivability problems at point blank range so that much HP/temp HP is probably overkill.

    A point blank caster (with ES capstone) has barely enough AP for the soul eater goodies and utterdark blast, and doesnt have much time for swinging in between the rotation of eldritch burst, spirit blast, stricken, consume, divine wrath and energy burst. I actually do swing on my warlock, but mainly for getting the vulnerability stacks from strickened form up quickly.

    The ES capstone is great, and you also get 1 blast and 1 pact dice at lvl 20. Hurl through Hell DC is also based on warlock level. ES capstone is 30 light spellpower (and 10 for your pact) so all scourge gives you is 20 spellpower on your pact damage once its up and running. Most of your damage comes from base blast damage (should be evil) and light damage, though.

    My plan for occasional melee is cha to damage weapons (Dynastic Falcata, Elyd Edge), although at higher levels Ill go back to TF.
    Thanks for the insights. I feel there is room for melee though for boss fights and to pick the occasional archer or stranded mob. All in all, the blast seems quite underwhelming once you reach epics, to be frank.

    For me, the main difference in a melee warlock between going pure or going splash with FVS is the crit profile of the melee weapon. Pure must be either dwarf or PDK with cha to damage weapons (which are quite bad).

  5. #5
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    What is most interesting is you are combining 3 things that people often blame Defiler of the Just lag on:

    Warlock aura
    Consecration
    Mystic Eidolons
    DC Warlock Reaper Build (U48)
    Max DC Illusionist Reaper Build (U48)

  6. #6
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    I take it back. Melee warlock seems very underwhelming in practice. I'd leave it at vulnerabilities added with Toee weapons and call it a day for melee.

  7. #7
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    - TWF is a no brainer? : given that you may have access to ToEE sets and the fact that light damage is on hit. Orb and b-sword / kopesh does not seem even close. Anyone disagreeing?
    I was initially thinking of TF/TOEE TWF combo, but the more I think about it, I think SWF daxe or bsword would be better. The thing is, as a hybrid, you want 3-4 different sp and spell crititems for at least two of them. Lantern ring takes care of light sp and crit, but you also want positive, sonic or acid and fire for DC consecratation. It's also nice to have a slot for meridian fragment.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoda View Post
    Came back from a 4 months break and decided that now I'm a causal flavor builder. I built this:

    True Neutral Dwarf 20 Warlock

    Stats:
    STR 10
    DEX 14
    CON 20
    INT 16
    WIS 8
    CHA 6


    Enhancements:
    18 Dwarf - TYWA
    41 Enlightened Spirit - capstone, spirit burst 3, shining through
    7 Harper - strategic combat 1, KTA rank2
    8 Tainted Scholar - Utterdark Blast, 2 core
    6 Souleater - 2 core, 3 hungry for destruction


    Feats: (1 pact 7 heroic 3 epic 2 destimy)
    Fiend
    TWF
    iTWF
    gTWF
    IC: piercing
    PA
    Maximize
    Empower


    OC
    Quicken
    epic blast


    epic arcane blast
    PTWF

    Main Destiny: crusader (should work fine in LD too with some minor modifications)
    twists: Radiant Power, Primal Scream + Haste Boost/balanced attacks -OR- Prism/Double Rainbow -OR- Haste Boost/extra action boost


    Gear: (might not be optimal, haven't given it that much thought)
    Helm: Sightless
    Cloak: Land and Sky hp/hp/sp int skills 6
    Boots: Boots of Blessed Travels
    Bracer: Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying
    Armor: Shadowscale 3% ds//TOEE
    Necklace: Mystic Eidolons
    Ring1: Strange Tidings
    Ring2: Lantern Ring
    Goggles: Epic Mentau's
    Trinket: Epic Litany
    Gloves: Samctified Gages

    Weapons: TF heavy pick x2 -OR- TF + TOEE heavy picks (heard that there might some issue about vulnerability stacking this way, will have to find out)

    So, it's pretty straight forward, twf with CON based damage, spam blasts and consecrated ground and be indestructible (buffed to 1900 hp in crusader at level 20).

    I just got to 20, and went to eeVON3 with heroic leveleing gear and owned it fairly easily (with a Sever + a min2 GS dworf axe - keen weapons are teh uberz while leveling on this build).

    There is actually good snyergy with having maxed CON on an enlightened spirit. The only DC I'm really missing Energy Burst, the rest is just for owning trash even harder (and it's not that hard with the bursts anywy).

    Not claiming that this is the new top uber meg ultra maximum over epic destroyed build, but shouldn't have problem soloing any ee quest and I get to play dwarf again.

    There, posted it so Azlix can be mad about it. Screenshots and videos might be comming later, but going on a week of vacation starting tomorrow.
    After playing through several warlock builds, my take is that melee warlock pales to other versions. It costs way too many feats and APs to even make it somewhat decent, all at the expense of the things that would normally make a warlock strong. You can just build an aura based warlock and run around swinging your weapon in between burst/cleave timers, but you won't be doing anywhere near the damage of your aura ticks and would be best served using the time during cooldowns for either active blocking to reduce incoming damage, or casting spells and using your SLAs like consume and stricken, which when invested in actually allow your eldritch aura/blast damage to do more.

    Tl;dr. No matter how you build a melee warlock, it will be inferior to having just fully invested into your eldritch damage without counting the other things you can do while your AoEs are on cooldown. IMHO Warlocks are a superbly built class that makes you really consider what you would lose by multiclassing or not investing in your primary class features.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Zoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I was initially thinking of TF/TOEE TWF combo, but the more I think about it, I think SWF daxe or bsword would be better. The thing is, as a hybrid, you want 3-4 different sp and spell crititems for at least two of them. Lantern ring takes care of light sp and crit, but you also want positive, sonic or acid and fire for DC consecratation. It's also nice to have a slot for meridian fragment.
    Spiritual Retribution gets added to glancing blows, so a SWF verson might actually be good, but I'm not sure how many glancing blows you get with no THF feats with daxe/bsword.

    To those who commented that pure caster is better:
    I know. That's why I said that this is a casual/flavor build. I'll play it to cap to get back my completionist/another epic past life and have some fun playing a short fat dude with a beard. Still I doubt I'll have any problem soloing any EE quest considering that it was already easy as a lvl20. The only spell I'll really miss having a good DC on is really just energy burst, rest is just for killing trash even faster, and honestly, you shoudln't need mass hold to kill stuff in the current state of the game.

    And I will never play shiradi.
    Main: Zodaroth - heroic & epic completionist pure dwarven warlock
    Alts: Zodynkar (caster), Zodirkeal (archer), Zodinn (lab rat)
    ---- Death N Taxes -------------------------------------------------------Argo -----

  10. #10
    The Hatchery Zoda's Avatar
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    ...

    Stay tuned for video if you are interested.

    PS. I really wish that the "you are not facing XY" bug will get fixed with bursts... I really don't have to face anything for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I was initially thinking of TF/TOEE TWF combo, but the more I think about it, I think SWF daxe or bsword would be better. The thing is, as a hybrid, you want 3-4 different sp and spell crititems for at least two of them. Lantern ring takes care of light sp and crit, but you also want positive, sonic or acid and fire for DC consecratation. It's also nice to have a slot for meridian fragment.
    Actually light + fire + positive is enough if you go with fiend pact. Light on ring, the other 2 slotted, one of the weapons/orb with extra purple slot on 2nd tier covers for meridian too.

    ...

    EDIT:


    Still missing all the DOJ gear, a TOEE set and 3 sun elf lives, not sure if I'll stick with the build though. It does alright. 10:22 is not a bad time at all, espcially considering how many mistakes I made (not casting truth seeing in time being the biggest one).
    Last edited by Zoda; 08-26-2015 at 11:54 AM.
    Main: Zodaroth - heroic & epic completionist pure dwarven warlock
    Alts: Zodynkar (caster), Zodirkeal (archer), Zodinn (lab rat)
    ---- Death N Taxes -------------------------------------------------------Argo -----

  11. #11
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoda View Post
    ...

    Stay tuned for video if you are interested.

    PS. I really wish that the "you are not facing XY" bug will get fixed with bursts... I really don't have to face anything for that.



    Actually light + fire + positive is enough if you go with fiend pact. Light on ring, the other 2 slotted, one of the weapons/orb with extra purple slot on 2nd tier covers for meridian too.

    ...

    EDIT:


    Still missing all the DOJ gear, a TOEE set and 3 sun elf lives, not sure if I'll stick with the build though. It does alright. 10:22 is not a bad time at all, espcially considering how many mistakes I made (not casting truth seeing in time being the biggest one).
    I guess losing resonation and sonic spellpower isn't a huge deal on a hybrid. And I wonder if you can pre-cast your aura with it anyway.

    Definitely a nice vid. Really nice trash clear and tankiness obviously, but boss DPS seemed lacking.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Zoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I guess losing resonation and sonic spellpower isn't a huge deal on a hybrid. And I wonder if you can pre-cast your aura with it anyway.

    Definitely a nice vid. Really nice trash clear and tankiness obviously, but boss DPS seemed lacking.
    He had displacement and I cast TS on the last 20k or so hp

    But yeah not the best boss dps.
    Main: Zodaroth - heroic & epic completionist pure dwarven warlock
    Alts: Zodynkar (caster), Zodirkeal (archer), Zodinn (lab rat)
    ---- Death N Taxes -------------------------------------------------------Argo -----

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