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  1. #61
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post

    In my opinion, the deepwood stalker tier 5s are the one to choose if you want consistent dps, while the arcane archer tier 5s are the one to choose if you want burst dps. The difference between them is more in the playstyle you are going for, rather than raw power. I think that playstyle choice also determines the optimal destiny – fury with AA tier 5s for max burst dps, DWS tier 5s in divine crusader or dreadnaught for consistent dps.
    From a personal point of view as a (more or less) dedicated soloer: DWS + Fury covers the bases nicely. Sustained DPS during the main part of a quest with the burst from FotW for the end bosses. Will have a play with Divine Crusader once I hit 30 and ETR back down to 20 again. At the moment I'm giggling to much when I come up against a end boss and it's dead before the manyshot is up
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  2. #62
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garix View Post
    From a personal point of view as a (more or less) dedicated soloer: DWS + Fury covers the bases nicely. Sustained DPS during the main part of a quest with the burst from FotW for the end bosses.
    I can understand that. I should qualify my statement by saying my opinion is based solely on endgame. I've never played a full time archer during leveling, either heroic or epic.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  3. #63
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I have not confirmed this, but it should since the DC description states "enchantment spell bonuses." I included past life wiz, and past life bard, in the (near) max breakdown I posted in this thread.
    Love your builds, I've been theory-crafting a Monk splashed version of this for Shurikens since the extra proc rate would make the CC in some ways more effective since December. Also, I'm partial to Shurikens or Hybrids and don't love pure Rangers/Full Time bows.

    Definitely will steal some ideas from here to round out the build/save time!

    Also, what about PK arrows instead of Paralyzing?
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  4. #64
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I can understand that. I should qualify my statement by saying my opinion is based solely on endgame. I've never played a full time archer during leveling, either heroic or epic.
    It helps if you're a masochist
    Leader of Shrodingers Cat Support Group a Husband and Wife guild on Orien.
    Tolkiens Law: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
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  5. #65
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Love your builds, I've been theory-crafting a Monk splashed version of this for Shurikens since the extra proc rate would make the CC in some ways more effective since December. Also, I'm partial to Shurikens or Hybrids and don't love pure Rangers/Full Time bows.
    Thanks. Yeah I'm not much interested in a shuriken build, so I understand. Actually, I wasn't even interested in a full time bow user before I started contemplating this build.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Definitely will steal some ideas from here to round out the build/save time!
    Good!

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Also, what about PK arrows instead of Paralyzing?
    My initial intention with this build was to provide CC in LE content. Terror arrows would do that by making them run away due to the fear effect, but nobody likes chasing after mobs. I'd rather they stay in place and para arrows accomplishes that perfectly.

    The phantasmal killer portion of terror arrows only procs on a vorpal. You would be able to make better use of that on a shuriken build with a higher rate of attack, but I wouldn't want it on a bow user. It also requires the mob to fail 2 saves - will then fort - for the instakill to work. From asking around the forums (and my own in-game experience since then), a 72 enchantment DC should be no fail in LE, but I don't know about fort saves. Those are generally higher on most mobs anyway, so you'd want to push your DC up higher, but I don't know by how much. I have heard assassins talking about needing upper 90s or even low 100s for no fail assassinate (which is also a fort save) in LE. Plus, I honestly don't know how the DC for the PK portion of terror arrows works. Does it use the same save as the fear portion (20 + wis mod + enchantment bonuses)? Or does it have a different base DC formula? Is it boosted by illusion bonuses instead of enchantment? If that is the case, then you have another spell school to worry about building for. So overall, I don't know enough about terror arrows to speak of their viability, and they don't really fit my goals anyway.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 01-12-2016 at 02:19 PM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  6. #66
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    My initial intention with this build was to provide CC in LE content. Terror arrows would do that by making them run away due to the fear effect, but nobody likes chasing after mobs. I'd rather they stay in place and para arrows accomplishes that perfectly.

    The phantasmal killer portion of terror arrows only procs on a vorpal. You would be able to make better use of that on a shuriken build with a higher rate of attack, but I wouldn't want it on a bow user. It also requires the mob to fail 2 saves - will then fort - for the instakill to work. From asking around the forums (and my own in-game experience since then), a 72 enchantment DC should be no fail in LE, but I don't know about fort saves. Those are generally higher on most mobs anyway, so you'd want to push your DC up higher, but I don't know by how much. I have heard assassins talking about needing upper 90s or even low 100s for no fail assassinate (which is also a fort save) in LE. Plus, I honestly don't know how the DC for the PK portion of terror arrows works. Does it use the same save as the fear portion (20 + wis mod + enchantment bonuses)? Or does it have a different base DC formula? Is it boosted by illusion bonuses instead of enchantment? If that is the case, then you have another spell school to worry about building for. So overall, I don't know enough about terror arrows to speak of their viability, and they don't really fit my goals anyway.
    Good thoughts on PK, I forgot it's a double save.

    One last word on Shuriken though, you could actually have the identical build, but with 10k and about 2-2.5x the missile firing rate on a shuriken version, and with Tier 4 Monk stances for another 4 Wisdom (+2 DC). Also, all that Wisdom would make your 10k really boosty on the Ranged Power part. I totally understand if you don't like Shuriken builds much, but I'm actually thinking my current 14 Monk/6 Ranger shuri/bow hybrid I run could do this build with just some enhancement and feat changes pretty easily. I already run around with about 51 Wisdom (+14 Item and only +2 Insight so that could go up a bit). I just need to swap in SF Enchant for the Twist. I also would probably continue to run in FoTW since the DPS is so superior to any other Destiny with Slayer or Sniper Shot. Thats 3 less DC from ED, so I would be down 1 DC.

    However, being able to Paralyze a line of mobs and take them all out with an Adrenaline + Active Attack is sort of really interesting. It also makes a huge difference for Red/Purple named DPS. Although, with a bow, you don't regen adrenalines as fast, so I understand the trade off is different.

    In any case, cool stuff! Think I might give a respec a try!
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  7. #67
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Oh, and FoTW actually provides +2 Wisdom while raged (Acute Instincts + Primal Scream or a Rage pot) so actually the DC works out pretty evenly.
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  8. #68
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Oh and finally, I prefer Scion of Shadowfell as my legendary feat on my chucker, and would stick with that on a Shuriken version of this build. 1d6 Postive healing when you throw ~4-5 Shuriken a Second is good for about 80HP a second of healing with some pally past lives and some HAMP gear. Currently I run raids and LE content and am almost ready to slot out Cocoon as SoS provides so much consistent incoming healing. Even for a bow build you might consider it, since you won't lose any DC's. Though the Electric damage proc is nice synergy with Elemental arrows for Spell Power.
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  9. #69
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    Default Why the quicken feat?

    I'm thinking of TRing into this build after our chance meeting in EE devils details the other day but had a question. What's the purpose of the quicken feat? Just uninterruptable cure serious? I was thinking of swapping if for past life wizard for a little better paralyzing arrow.
    Last edited by Smashcow; 01-13-2016 at 10:35 AM.

  10. #70
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Default Minor (very) point of spellpower levels

    As I was trying to figure out where I was going wrong (my Acid spellpower is under half your Electricity one the moment) and noticed this glaring, glaring error.

    Your spellpower totals are way, way off what you can get.

    You've listed 23 ranks for Electric and Force spell power.

    Both are powered by the spellcraft feat. Cross-class for Rangers so you're limited to 11.5 (11 really).

    That's a whole 2% (approx) loss of dps.

    I think the sky may of fallen.

    Or I may just be bored waiting for the servers to come back up.
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  11. #71
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    One last word on Shuriken though, you could actually have the identical build, but with 10k and about 2-2.5x the missile firing rate on a shuriken version, and with Tier 4 Monk stances for another 4 Wisdom (+2 DC). Also, all that Wisdom would make your 10k really boosty on the Ranged Power part. I totally understand if you don't like Shuriken builds much
    When theorycrafting this build, the possibility of a shuriken build and its advantages did occur to me, but it just wasn't what I wanted. I was enjoying the ranged aspect on my tempest (Divine Cuisinart in my sig) and wanted to try a full time bow user as well as the ranged capstones. I am glad to see someone adapting these build concepts to fit their own goals though. If you do try it, I'd be interested to know how it works out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smashcow View Post
    I'm thinking of TRing into this build after our chance meeting in EE devils details the other day but had a question. What's the purpose of the quicken feat? Just uninterruptable cure serious? I was thinking of swapping if for past life wizard for a little better paralyzing arrow.
    Yes, quicken is for cure serious and cure mod wounds. I don't twist cocoon on this build and get by just fine without it, but that does make quicken pretty much a necessity (imo) to ensure healing when I need it most.

    If you wanted to twist cocoon, then you don't need quicken. Cocoon is affected by quicken but is also uninterruptible (I think) so isn't necessary. You could also drop weapon focus ranged to take past life wiz. Weapon focus only provides 2 ranged power, so it's not a huge loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garix View Post
    As I was trying to figure out where I was going wrong (my Acid spellpower is under half your Electricity one the moment) and noticed this glaring, glaring error.

    Your spellpower totals are way, way off what you can get.

    You've listed 23 ranks for Electric and Force spell power.

    Both are powered by the spellcraft feat. Cross-class for Rangers so you're limited to 11.5 (11 really).

    That's a whole 2% (approx) loss of dps.

    I think the sky may of fallen.

    Or I may just be bored waiting for the servers to come back up.
    Good catch. Thank you. When I make new builds, I often copy/paste from my other builds, particularly the template or breakdowns, to save myself some time. So these kind of errors can happen. Thanks for pointing it out.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  12. #72
    Community Member giftie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Plus, I honestly don't know how the DC for the PK portion of terror arrows works. Does it use the same save as the fear portion (20 + wis mod + enchantment bonuses)? Or does it have a different base DC formula?
    Guildie tested this, and came to the conclusion that the actual PK effect is a very low, static DC, most likely 36 like the weapon effect.

  13. #73
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giftie View Post
    Guildie tested this, and came to the conclusion that the actual PK effect is a very low, static DC, most likely 36 like the weapon effect.
    Do you know if that testing was done after the revamp? If before, it might require testing again since the DCs of the other abilities got a change. If after, well, that's pretty weak.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  14. #74
    Community Member giftie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Do you know if that testing was done after the revamp? If before, it might require testing again since the DCs of the other abilities got a change. If after, well, that's pretty weak.
    Yes, this was yesterday.

  15. #75

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    Paralysing Arrow DC

    Just thought I'd put this down as a helpful reference - I've personally worked on getting to a DC74 Paralysing Arrow on my Tempest/DWS/AA Versatility build. I'm still working out the kinks hence no thread, but thought you might find this useful:

    Wisdom
    18 Base
    07 Level Ups
    07 Tome
    02 Enhancement
    15 Item: Enhancement (Random Loot)
    07 Item: Insight (LegGS Tier 2 on Bow)
    02 Item: Exceptional (LegGS Tier 3 on Bow)
    02 Item: Quality (Epic Halcyonia)
    02 Item: Spooky Augment
    02 Yugoloth Potion
    06 Destiny (My build uses Divine Crusader full time)
    04 Guild & Remnant Potion
    = 74 Wisdom
    = +32 Mod

    DC Calculation
    20 Base
    32 Wisdom
    01 Terror Arrows
    01 Paralyzing Arrows
    01 Banishment Arrows
    01 Smiting Arrows
    01 Feat - SF: Enchantment
    01 Feat - GSF: Enchantment
    02 Feat - Scion of Air
    03 ED: Enchantment Specialist
    06 Item: Equipment - Legendary Brazenband Ring or Random Loot
    02 Item: Insight - Leathers of the Celestial Sage or Random Loot
    02 Item: Augment
    01 Guild: Archwizard
    Total DC = 74

    Things I wish I could have but can't fit in....

    Wisdom

    04 Great Wisdom Feats - No way I can sacrifice Epic Feat slots for these!
    05 Wisdom Twists - Not a chance of fitting these in!
    02 Acute Instincts - This is really a stretch to take this.. +1 Wisdom over a standard Wisdom twist and will need to keep Rage pots handy...

    DC

    02 Feat - Scion of Feywild - My own build theme dictates Scion of Air
    01 Feat - Epic Spell Focus - Ranger's don't qualify for level 6 spells, so can't take this...
    02 Item: Quality - Epic Increased Potential - Can't juggle an Orb and a Bow at the same time!
    01 Item: Quality - Gauntlets of the Arcane Soldier - Just can't fit this into a reasonable gear setup, with the other mods it has
    01 Item: Profane - Thunderforged Armour is in the bank in preference of Leathers of Celestial Sage

    But if you went absolutely nuts, hair-brained, no-holds-barred max DC.... could potentially hit DC83 Paralysing Arrows ?(and have a Will save worth a **** on a Ranger )
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
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  16. #76
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Paralysing Arrow DC
    Good resource. You've got a few sources I didn't consider in my breakdown here. Just as a fun thought experiment, let's see what absolute maximum would be.

    Wisdom
    18 Base
    07 Level Ups
    07 Tome
    04 Enhancement
    01 Human versatility wisdom
    02 Feat: Completionist
    15 Item: Enhancement (Random Loot)
    07 Item: Insight (LegGS Tier 2 on Bow)
    02 Item: Exceptional (LegGS Tier 3 on Bow)
    02 Item: Quality (Epic Halcyonia)
    02 Item: Spooky Augment
    02 Item: Profane (Epic Litany of the Dead)
    02 Yugoloth Potion
    06 Destiny (Exalted Angel)
    02 Guild
    02 Remnant Potion
    02 Twist of Fate: Acute Instincts
    01 Twist of Fate: Shiradi Champion wisdom
    01 Twist of Fate: Primal Avatar wisdom
    01 Twist of Fate: Grandmaster of Flowers wisdom
    04 Great Wisdom Feats
    = 90 Wisdom
    = +40 Mod

    DC Calculation
    20 Base
    40 Wisdom
    01 Terror Arrows
    01 Paralyzing Arrows
    01 Banishment Arrows
    01 Smiting Arrows
    01 Feat - SF: Enchantment
    01 Feat - GSF: Enchantment
    04 Feat - Scion of the Feywild
    01 Feat - Past life: Arcane Initiate (wizard)
    01 Feat - Past life: Bardic Dilettante (bard)
    03 Twist of Fate: Enchantment Specialist
    03 Transcendental Magic - Exalted Angel core 5
    06 Item: Equipment - Legendary Brazenband Ring or Random Loot
    02 Item: Insight - Random Loot
    01 Item: Profane - Thunderforged Armour
    02 Item: Augment
    01 Item: Quality - Gauntlets of the Arcane Soldier
    01 Guild: Archwizard
    Total DC = 91
    01 Angelic Form +2 wisdom, 2 min duration, 5 min cooldown
    Total DC = 92 for 2 out of every 5 minutes

    Definitely a non-optimal build, gimped in so many ways, but that appears to be max.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 01-15-2016 at 07:50 AM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  17. #77
    Community Member giftie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post

    02 Twist of Fate: Acute Instincts
    01 Twist of Fate: Shiradi Champion wisdom
    01 Twist of Fate: Primal Avatar wisdom
    01 Twist of Fate: Grandmaster of Flowers wisdom
    01 Twist of Fate: Exalted Angel wisdom

    03 ED: Enchantment Specialist
    6 twists?

    Does Transcendental Magic count toward Paralyzing Arrows DC?

  18. #78
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giftie View Post
    6 twists?
    Doh! Good catch. Dropped the exalted angel wisdom twist and picked up human versatility wisdom to keep an even 90 wis. Had to drop elf enchantment lore to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by giftie View Post
    Does Transcendental Magic count toward Paralyzing Arrows DC?
    I would assume so. Changed the ED to exalted angel and max DC appears to be 91.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I would assume so. Changed the ED to exalted angel and max DC appears to be 91.
    A Ranger with wings.

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    The thought of it...
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  20. #80
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Doh! Good catch. Dropped the exalted angel wisdom twist and picked up human versatility wisdom to keep an even 90 wis. Had to drop elf enchantment lore to do this.



    I would assume so. Changed the ED to exalted angel and max DC appears to be 91.
    Looking at the wiki, apparently angel form also gives +2 wisdom.
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