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  1. #1
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Default U31 Undead fighter

    Hi folks,


    The new update is bringing a lot of undead love via items (a lot of negative amplification, and negative spell power), together with a boost to the DPS for Kensei. Of course it is not super original to try to tie the two together, so here I am asking the usual people for some tips. Another option would be to go blade forged and take advantage of the enormous gains to repair amp, but I'd rather not for flavor reasons. This is work in progress.

    Class split: So far I think Fighter 12 / 8 wizard is probably a good compromise. This buys you 3 level 4 spells (displacement, negative aura, and negative burst) and keeps a lot of the kensei goodies.

    Race
    :I would probably go for elven characters to get a heavy armor on.
    Negative healing:
    Base with caster level 8:
    Negative spellpower: 504 (210+25+18+60+32+24+40+30+20+15+30)
    210 pansophic circlet
    25 deathwyrm / alchemical pot
    18 APs pale master
    60 epic levels
    32 implement (TF)
    24 meridian fragment
    40 scion of shadow fell
    30 Divine ePLs x3
    20 epic spell power: negative
    15 fey form
    30 heal
    Negative energy amplification: 102 - 10 conduit, 72 mummy wrappings, 20 scion of shadow fell.
    Note: Devil's handiwork does NOT stack with mummy wrappings.
    Legendary feat:
    Fighting style: I see advantages to SWF, TWF, THF. Probably SWF is a good compromise which allows for a nice orb.
    Destiny: Legendary dreadnaught for MOAR DPS, but there might be interesting synergies with shadow dancer.
    Feats and enhancements: Try to get T5 kensei + low tier defensive bonus. KTA seems mandatory. Feats would include PRR, maybe some tactics, and the "mandatory" ones for a melee. Total number of feats (+7 fighter, +2 wizard).

    Critical chance
    5 Magical training
    3 Energy criticals ePL
    22 Void lore
    2 Insight spell lore
    4 Energy critical Pale Master
    = 36%

    Critical damage
    20% GS tier 1


    Heals (without crit):

    Death auras
    Lesser death aura:
    1d4=2.5 Base
    2.5*spell power (6.04)= 2.5*6.04=15
    15*neg amp (2.02): 15*2.02=30

    Death aura (2d4+1 per 2 caster level)
    2d4+4 = 9 Base
    9*spell power (6.04)= 9*(100+504)/100 = 9*6.04=54
    54*neg amp (2.02): 54*(100+102)/100 = 54*2.02=109

    Negative energy burst (1d4+4 negative energy damage per 2 caster levels)
    4d4+16 = 26 Base
    26*6.04=157
    157*2.02=317

    On crit:
    Lesser death aura: 30*2.2=66
    Death aura: 109*2.2=239


    Wraith form with wellspring of power
    At level 12, the base duration of the auras is 54 seconds and it can be extended to 108. Wellspring has a cool down of 180 seconds. Calculations below using the uptime of wellspring.

    B]Death auras[/B]
    Lesser death aura:
    1d4=2.5 Base
    2.5*7.54=18
    18*2.02=36

    Death aura (2d4+1 per 2 caster levels)
    2d4+6 = 11 Base
    11*7.54=82
    82*2.02=165

    On crit:
    Lesser death aura: 36*2.4=86
    Death aura: 165*2.4=396


    On hit healing:

    Mummy wraps:
    2d6+7= 14 Base
    14*2.02=28

    Shadow fell on hit
    1d6 = 3.5 Base
    3.5 *2.02=7



    Defenses (vampire)
    Total PRR: 225
    12 Combatant
    60 heavy armor
    25 Stalwart
    10 Pale master
    60 Boots legendary / trinket + sightless
    18 PLs
    30 Blitz
    10 epic feat

    Total MRR: 122
    12 combatant
    25 stalwart
    25 remnant clock
    60 items
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 05-21-2016 at 06:45 AM.

  2. #2

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    will your death aura be strong enough for decent heals?
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  3. #3
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    will your death aura be strong enough for decent heals?
    That's what I am trying to figure out. Im putting together the final spell power. If it was ever enough, it is right now. There are a LOT of nice negative amp items going around, and the new mummy belt is awesome.

    PS - 185 / 206 every 3 seconds is not bad.
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 05-18-2016 at 04:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Am I missing obvious sources of spell power? I'd need some assistance here haven't optimized casters in a looooong time.

    By the way, this is without counting the boon of the undead. That should be on hit:

    2d6+4 plus 1 per caster level.

    Assume no caster level for lower bound:

    11*2.38=26

    Every caster level just adds to this. So add caster level 10, this is 21*2.38=50

    Does anyone know how the caster levels work on those items?
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 05-18-2016 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I think ftr 8 / wiz 12 will be a better split for this sort of gish: you lose Power Surge & two feats (inc. Gtr Weap Spec); but gain wraith form, +4 caster lvls (NEB is MCL:10), and lvl 5 & 6 spells (inc. Tensers although the spell CD penalty might make it undesirable).
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  6. #6

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    Currently I am leveling up an Undead Tempest TWF Ranger. At 22 right now and expect to be a very capable build. 12 levels of wizard for wraith form is very beneficial, not to mention the increased caster levels for death aura and negative energy burst.

    I'm using meld into darkness and elaborate parry plus thick skinned, making for good damage avoidance. I went Int based with harper tree, not to have to worry about spreading my stats too thin.

    I definitely think there is enough neg amplification at end game to make a multi-class undead melee viable.
    A wise man once said that if you don't know the answer to something there is no shame in simply saying "I don't know."

  7. #7
    Community Member Vhayre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Am I missing obvious sources of spell power? I'd need some assistance here haven't optimized casters in a looooong time.
    At first glance you could add the power over life and death EPL stance for another 30.
    Heal seems somewhat low, an augment could add a few more points there.
    EK will also give a small amount of universal spell power if you're spending any points in it.
    My current ETR I've also been experimenting with the epic feat wellspring of power. I hit it before casting death aura and lesser death aura for 150 spellpower and the increased crit damage. This is with 12 wizard levels however so the cooldown on the feat coincides better with the duration on my extended death aura than it would for a lvl 8 caster.

    Some of the bonuses you list on the other hand you may run into issues with. In particular the quality bonus from the celestial plate, since the negative energy absorption on it will reduce your healing by 27%. Yes, this still happens sadly.
    The Deathwyrm cloak I would either swap in just for buffing or replace completely with potions since those are also an alchemical bonus. Beside the spellpower the cloak only offers you a green slot and 10% force absorption as soon as you can wear the mummy wrappings for negative amp.

    If healing isn't keeping you up with scion of earth I can recommend using shadowfell. SWF attack speed will work nicely with the vampirism effect it gives.

    Also want to add my vote to the 12 wizard. 8 fighter for feats is more than enough and I'd take wraith form and the better spells/cl over the 12th level kensai core any day. Tensers is really nice to have.
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  8. #8

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    wraiths drain CON on critical melee hits which might be fun if combined with a heavy CON draining weapon like ESpinal Tap or even good old fashioned WoP. Yes there is epic resistance to this sort of thing but at a fast rate of attacks it might still work.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links. LONG LIVE STEALTH!
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  9. #9
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhayre View Post
    At first glance you could add the power over life and death EPL stance for another 30.
    Heal seems somewhat low, an augment could add a few more points there.
    EK will also give a small amount of universal spell power if you're spending any points in it.
    My current ETR I've also been experimenting with the epic feat wellspring of power. I hit it before casting death aura and lesser death aura for 150 spellpower and the increased crit damage. This is with 12 wizard levels however so the cooldown on the feat coincides better with the duration on my extended death aura than it would for a lvl 8 caster.

    Some of the bonuses you list on the other hand you may run into issues with. In particular the quality bonus from the celestial plate, since the negative energy absorption on it will reduce your healing by 27%. Yes, this still happens sadly.
    The Deathwyrm cloak I would either swap in just for buffing or replace completely with potions since those are also an alchemical bonus. Beside the spellpower the cloak only offers you a green slot and 10% force absorption as soon as you can wear the mummy wrappings for negative amp.

    If healing isn't keeping you up with scion of earth I can recommend using shadowfell. SWF attack speed will work nicely with the vampirism effect it gives.

    Also want to add my vote to the 12 wizard. 8 fighter for feats is more than enough and I'd take wraith form and the better spells/cl over the 12th level kensai core any day. Tensers is really nice to have.
    Thanks guys, feedback much appreciated.

    On the topic of 12/8 or 8/12: I really want power surge, but I'll consider other options. The tip on wellspring is really nice. An extended death aura goes for 24+3xCL so at lvl8 it is 96 seconds. At level 12 it is 2 minutes, giving 1 minute of non powered heals.
    Currently on my tempest consecrated ground hits me for around 240 a tick and that's sufficient for a huge amount of mobs.

    I do have 3x power over life and death, so I should count it.

    Let me do an updated spell power:

    Negative spellpower: 434
    150 handiwork
    25 deathwyrm / alchemical pot
    18 APs pale master
    60 epic levels
    32 implement (TF)
    24 meridian fragment
    30 scion of earth / 40 scion of shadow fell
    30 Divine ePLs x3
    20 epic spell power: negative
    15 fey form
    30 heal

    In scion thats 80*2.38=190 without counting crits, every 3 secs. In shadowfell it is 206, again without crits.

    And not counting the boon of undead (does anyone know how that works with regards to ML on the inflict moderate?) nor the vampirism on shadow fell. Looks pretty solid to me.

    The reason why I do not want to lose power surge is because it is a big chunk of damage: +6 from STR and +2 from INT for an STR build. +8 is a pretty darn high addition to base damage.

  10. #10

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    Craft a tier 1 LGS with 150 negative spellpower. It stacks with equipment bonus, so you can swap it in when casting Death Aura.
    Might still be hard to get decent numbers. If you want a crazy death aura, you really need to build for crits aswell (maybe just make some swap sets for spellpower + crits, could even go for triple negative LGS equipment slots or something?). The only thing that counts are the bonuses you have at the moment when you cast it. It keeps those for the entire duration.

    Also get the gloves from DoJ if you can, those raise the CL by another two.

    Arcane warrior could be an interesting feat for such a build assuming death aura would generate melee power stacks, when it hits stuff (I have no idea if it does).
    Last edited by Eth; 05-18-2016 at 06:18 PM.
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  11. #11
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I think ftr 8 / wiz 12 will be a better split for this sort of gish: you lose Power Surge & two feats (inc. Gtr Weap Spec); but gain wraith form, +4 caster lvls (NEB is MCL:10), and lvl 5 & 6 spells (inc. Tensers although the spell CD penalty might make it undesirable).
    This works wellish (I have one, THF great axe horc) and is certainly survivable. But I went 12 wiz so that I could invest in mostly EK, all the way to T5, enough PM to get wraith - left overs I think went a teeny way into kensai and horc. Gets DA, LesserDA and Burst for heals, does very well out of it even with the low PRR/MRR I have in light armour. I see no reason you couldn't get some more ASF reduction and just stop at vampire instead of wraith and put the spare points in Kensai and wear tougher armour instead and it not work well.

    I'd give it a go if I hadn't centered so much of my gear and enhancements etc into avoidance like dodge and incorporeal and making the most from heal ticks. I do love me a gish build.

    I also have (on a server somewhere) an old Bladesinger build (tweaked, I didnt' bother with iron will and won't be bothering with OTWF for instance) which I'm running (very infrequently) as a lightly armoured TWF non-undead EK (so lots more points to put in fighter/race tree) to see how it actually levels - and the answer is it levels pretty well, but not spectacularly so. Again, haven't tried it since the kensai changes.

    Anyway - be interested in seeing how it pans out for the OP.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Craft a tier 1 LGS with 150 negative spellpower. It stacks with equipment bonus, so you can swap it in when casting Death Aura.
    Might still be hard to get decent numbers. If you want a crazy death aura, you really need to build for crits aswell (maybe just make some swap sets for spellpower + crits, could even go for triple negative LGS equipment slots or something?). The only thing that counts are the bonuses you have at the moment when you cast it. It keeps those for the entire duration.

    Also get the gloves from DoJ if you can, those raise the CL by another two.

    Arcane warrior could be an interesting feat for such a build assuming death aura would generate melee power stacks, when it hits stuff (I have no idea if it does).
    No arca warrior doesnt work with aura sadly.

    Lets make a petition so it works?
    (cough cough totally wouldnt help my unarmed monk build, cough cough)

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kebtid View Post
    No arca warrior doesnt work with aura sadly.

    Lets make a petition so it works?
    (cough cough totally wouldnt help my unarmed monk build, cough cough)
    Does anyone know if arcane warrior works with warlock auras?
    A wise man once said that if you don't know the answer to something there is no shame in simply saying "I don't know."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_D'Arabel View Post
    Does anyone know if arcane warrior works with warlock auras?
    Works with warlock aura since every tick counts as new cast /havent tested since ive been away for a year, but my source is pretty informed about the state of the game

  15. #15
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_D'Arabel View Post
    Does anyone know if arcane warrior works with warlock auras?
    That's an interesting idea. Could there be a good fast cheap spell to rotate and keep stacks on? Do scrolls /wands build up stacks? I am thinking of casting say an ice storm with a scroll.

  16. #16
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Craft a tier 1 LGS with 150 negative spellpower. It stacks with equipment bonus, so you can swap it in when casting Death Aura.
    Might still be hard to get decent numbers. If you want a crazy death aura, you really need to build for crits aswell (maybe just make some swap sets for spellpower + crits, could even go for triple negative LGS equipment slots or something?). The only thing that counts are the bonuses you have at the moment when you cast it. It keeps those for the entire duration.

    Also get the gloves from DoJ if you can, those raise the CL by another two.

    Arcane warrior could be an interesting feat for such a build assuming death aura would generate melee power stacks, when it hits stuff (I have no idea if it does).
    Thanks for the tip, really helpful to know that you only need it on initial cast. One could quick swap such thing.

  17. #17
    Community Member Vhayre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    wraiths drain CON on critical melee hits which might be fun if combined with a heavy CON draining weapon like ESpinal Tap or even good old fashioned WoP. Yes there is epic resistance to this sort of thing but at a fast rate of attacks it might still work.
    This definitely works. My S&B wraith tank primarily uses epic spinal tap and the combined con drain usually leaves mobs helpless after the first attack sequence. Stunning shield + regular attacks after that also keep susceptible orange named mobs helpless permanently since being helpless actually increases the con damage done as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    That's an interesting idea. Could there be a good fast cheap spell to rotate and keep stacks on? Do scrolls /wands build up stacks? I am thinking of casting say an ice storm with a scroll.
    Tested this extensively and my conclusion was that you're basically screwed over for not being a warlock. Persistant AoEs only count the first cast, fire shield like abilities don't work, EK abilities do not increment it and anything that has the possibility to heal like death aura or cleric aura doesn't work and sadly this has been stated WAI:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    As the feat's description on Live reads:

    - Spells that are capable of healing via Positive, Negative, or Repair will not provide stacks, even if they can also have an offensive component.

    So yes, both are WAI.
    I would sign the petition to have it changed too
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhayre View Post
    Tested this extensively and my conclusion was that you're basically screwed over for not being a warlock. Persistant AoEs only count the first cast, fire shield like abilities don't work, EK abilities do not increment it and anything that has the possibility to heal like death aura or cleric aura doesn't work and sadly this has been stated WAI:
    Thanks for testing.
    If any enhancement tree deserves some love of synergyzing with arcane warrior it should be EK, but of course it doesn't. Instead it's the warlock aura that works. Good job, turbine...lol
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  19. #19

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    with such a high neg spell power perhaps splash 4 cleric for NEB (21 AP though) and spam it for arcane warrior stacks on a vampire (8 wiz)? Probably not the best option but thinking out loud.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links. LONG LIVE STEALTH!
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  20. #20
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    That's an interesting idea. Could there be a good fast cheap spell to rotate and keep stacks on? Do scrolls /wands build up stacks? I am thinking of casting say an ice storm with a scroll.
    Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds charges Empyrean Magic. It might charge this up too?

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