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  1. #21
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I think in general it's a good idea to try out different builds and see how it plays out. Shiradi caster is a good example of a build that looked bad at first glance by many people but at one time was the top build in the game.

    The success of a build should me measured solely on whether it reaches your goals and is fun to play NOT based on how fast it beats up a kobold.

    things like current gear, past life's , play style and the people you run with are all huge considerations that should outweigh max dps potential.
    Agreed. I've hardly played since the data center move lag debacle. Real life has kept me busy, so that wasn't the only thing keeping me away, but I've definitely lost a lot of my enthusiasm for the game over the past year. So I'm trying to find things to make me interested in logging in when I actually have the time to. I've spent the last several years of this game playing at cap. Now I'd rather try out odd builds to level with.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  2. #22
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I'm looking for more of a hybrid build. I know spell dps isn't going to be anything to write home about, but I'd like to have that capability nonetheless. I envision the playstyle as fighting in ice storm and stacking dots on bosses. The 12 fighter/7 wiz/1 FvS split would simply be a self buffing melee. That has been the playstyle of nearly every melee I've ever played, and I just want something a little different.
    In that case, a different possibility which occurs to me (presuming fire is a viable element for content you intend to run): INT-based human wiz 12 / ftr 8 in Div Crusader with Energy Burst Fire Twist. Consecration + EB will cause Empyrean Magic procs, IIRC, as well as Arcane Warrior stacks. Something like 33 APs Kensei, 21 APs EK, 12 APs Harper, 13 APs SD, 1 AP human. Squeezing in enough ASF reduction for hvy armor might be a PITA though, unless you switched to a pointy-eared race.

    [I was actually thinking of CHA-based PDK warlock 12 / ftr 8, but adjusted for wiz instead.]
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Emphasis added.
    The largest dps boost in the current game comes from increasing crit range and multiplier.
    I disagree. I would say it comes from thinking ahead of what you will be doing in game with your character, and making it synergy well. The above 20x2 crit profile tree build, for example, would lay waste 1-30 with ease.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-14-2016 at 10:10 PM.

  4. #24
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Emphasis added. This part makes me think you are referring to endgame, because you don't need to do that much damage in heroic or even epic elite. Thanks to power creep, the only part of the game that presents the sort of challenge where a build needs to be fully optimized is legendary elite. As mentioned, I don't intend to play this build at endgame. I probably won't even keep it at cap for very long. It's just something different to play through the levels with.

    The largest dps boost in the current game comes from increasing crit range and multiplier. Yes, there are other sources which these builds miss out on, but crit bonuses are the largest. The synergy is in being able to fit in the crit bonuses and still maintain some degree of casting ability. Before kensai, builds like this leveraged other crit bonuses, such as holy sword or swashbuckler. I have no illusions about any of these builds being competitive with top notch builds, and I'm OK with that. But I also have no doubt that they will succeed in the content for which they are intended.
    le is probably overly coloring my opinion here, but i still think that for epics you do need to do reasonable damage in order for it to not just be overly difficult and boring. and thats the thing, im not even comparing these kinds of builds to top notch builds, i think they fail at their own design goals, because they achieve at best only reasonable damage and effectively worthless spellcasting ability, so i cant see them being fun from a playstyle perspective because even if you tried to cast burning hands just for the hell of it, and it barely did anything but you kept doing it again and again, eventually no one could resist the conclusion that they should just stop. i mean, i guess in heroics this kind of build could be fun because you could choose to melee or cast against various things, but i dont see the two methods being used together still. just my 2 cents, not trying to be depressing, i just think arcane warriors/spellswords are a sadly unrealistic thing in this game.
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  5. #25
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhayre View Post
    Here's the link to BigErkyKid's undead fighter thread and my arcane warrior test results. Haven't tested with missile spells so if you're planning to do a rotation of those it may just be enough, however spells do have the annoying habit of breaking your attack sequence.
    Thanks for the link and the testing on arcane warrior.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In that case, a different possibility which occurs to me (presuming fire is a viable element for content you intend to run): INT-based human wiz 12 / ftr 8 in Div Crusader with Energy Burst Fire Twist. Consecration + EB will cause Empyrean Magic procs, IIRC, as well as Arcane Warrior stacks. Something like 33 APs Kensei, 21 APs EK, 12 APs Harper, 13 APs SD, 1 AP human. Squeezing in enough ASF reduction for hvy armor might be a PITA though, unless you switched to a pointy-eared race.
    I like that idea. I had considered divine crusader with energy burst fire but by that time had already convinced myself that the only int based variant could be warforged and the self healing from divine crusader would be meh on a robot. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll put together a full build when I have time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I disagree. I would say it comes from thinking ahead of what you will be doing in game with your character, and making it synergy well. The above 20x2 crit profile tree build, for example, would lay waste 1-30 with ease.
    Tree builds are obviously an exception to the rule. I don't see too many tree builds to be honest. The vast majority of typical melee builds out there (i.e. pure fighter, barb, paladin, ranger, bard, rogue, or any multiclass combination of those) is going to be getting most of its dps boost from increasing crit range and multiplier. And why did you delete that post?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    le is probably overly coloring my opinion here, but i still think that for epics you do need to do reasonable damage in order for it to not just be overly difficult and boring. and thats the thing, im not even comparing these kinds of builds to top notch builds, i think they fail at their own design goals, because they achieve at best only reasonable damage and effectively worthless spellcasting ability, so i cant see them being fun from a playstyle perspective because even if you tried to cast burning hands just for the hell of it, and it barely did anything but you kept doing it again and again, eventually no one could resist the conclusion that they should just stop. i mean, i guess in heroics this kind of build could be fun because you could choose to melee or cast against various things, but i dont see the two methods being used together still. just my 2 cents, not trying to be depressing, i just think arcane warriors/spellswords are a sadly unrealistic thing in this game.
    Well using burning hands as an example is probably overly coloring my opinion as well. If we're talking about casting burning hands, then I'd agree with you. But you'll notice that I didn't take burning hands on any of the builds. You also never see any build, full time caster or not, using burning hands in epics. Ice storm, on the other hand, has no save (neither does wall of fire after the first tick if a mob remains in it) and is a spell you will still see cast in epics. That's the kind of spell that could be used to augment melee damage, especially since it's a persistent AoE damage spell so you can fight in it. Eladar's and Niac's also have no save and would simply augment melee dps.

    That's the nature of hybrid builds. They aren't the best at anything they do, but when everything is used together, they can get the job done. It may not be the fastest at taking down mobs, but shouldn't be the slowest either. That's how artificer is, it's a hybrid build. Other builds are better at each thing an artificer can do, but no other build can do them all, and when an arti is played well and every aspect is used, it's quite powerful overall. So I've got plenty of experience playing hybrid builds and I rather enjoy that playstyle. I'm willing to give these builds a try and see how effective they are, or aren't. And if I find they aren't effective, I'll be more than willing to come back here and say that it didn't work out.

    Now gearing for both melee and casting ability is going to be a problem on any hybrid build, and I'm still working on finding the right synergy to deal with that. unbongwah's suggested build above has some nice synergy to it that may help alleviate some of the gearing problems.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  6. #26
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Something like 33 APs Kensei, 21 APs EK, 12 APs Harper, 13 APs SD, 1 AP human. Squeezing in enough ASF reduction for hvy armor might be a PITA though, unless you switched to a pointy-eared race.
    Thinking about this some more, this might be the rare occasion where HE is better than human to gain Arcane Fluidity + Dmg Boost. So 7 APs HE (-15% ASF + Dmg Boost), 33 APs Kensei, 12 APs Harper, 13 APs SD, 15 APs EK (Arcane Barrier, first 3 cores, -5% ASF). Slot a -15% ASF augment gets you to -35% which is sufficient for hvy armor.
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  7. #27
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Thinking about this some more, this might be the rare occasion where HE is better than human to gain Arcane Fluidity + Dmg Boost. So 7 APs HE (-15% ASF + Dmg Boost), 33 APs Kensei, 12 APs Harper, 13 APs SD, 15 APs EK (Arcane Barrier, first 3 cores, -5% ASF). Slot a -15% ASF augment gets you to -35% which is sufficient for hvy armor.
    Yep. After looking over the pointy-eared options, that's exactly the conclusion I came to as well. Drow was the only other compelling option with a starting int of 20 but I'm not building for DCs and I'd value damage boost over +1 damage. I'm thinking I may twist extra action boost as well, which would give the build 12 total boosts, so damage boost is definitely a solid choice.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In that case, a different possibility which occurs to me (presuming fire is a viable element for content you intend to run): INT-based human wiz 12 / ftr 8 in Div Crusader with Energy Burst Fire Twist. Consecration + EB will cause Empyrean Magic procs, IIRC, as well as Arcane Warrior stacks. Something like 33 APs Kensei, 21 APs EK, 12 APs Harper, 13 APs SD, 1 AP human. Squeezing in enough ASF reduction for hvy armor might be a PITA though, unless you switched to a pointy-eared race.

    [I was actually thinking of CHA-based PDK warlock 12 / ftr 8, but adjusted for wiz instead.]
    It should be doable. I’m playing a Human 20 Fiend Warlock/Crusader with Fire burst and it's obscene amount of fun!

    Also, on the Melee front, DC has the Zeal clickie which is a *really* nice clickie for a Gish build.
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 07-15-2016 at 01:15 PM.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • Keep Lynnabel on task with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck. (OK, the S/S/S update and stat squish accomplished a lot of this goal.) I know you're tired Lynn, but give us an update to CitW and Gianthold loots after you get the Legendary Desert loot done!
    • All the flipping stuck at a zone in screens! (Lynn is claiming that he and Niac are on this!)
    • Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
    • Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
    • Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.

  9. #29
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    The post was transplanted to a greener home specifically for trees, where someone was specifically looking for a wiz one. Too much a pain to update it at multiple places while it gets tweaked around.

    Maxing crit is just a layer of offense. with corresponding fortification being its counterpart in defense. There is a lot more to defense than fortification. The counterparts to offense are equally numerous.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-15-2016 at 09:35 PM.

  10. #30
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default Int-based Half-elf

    Here's a half-elf, int-based, THF, fire specced version in divine crusader. You need a pointy-eared race to fully remove arcane spell failure in heavy armor. Half-elf offers the biggest advantages with human damage boost and no con penalty. Thanks goes to unbongwah for bringing this possibility to my attention. I like the synergy in this one and will be TRing into it once my acrobat hits 30. This one also makes a lot of sense as SWF. If you go that route, drop starting str to 13 and funnel those points into con with any extras into wis. As always, feedback welcome and appreciated.

    Arcane Warrior
    12/8 Wizard/Fighter
    True Neutral Half-Elf


    Level Order

    1. Fighter . . . . 6. Fighter. . . . 11. Wizard . . . . 16. Wizard
    2. Fighter . . . . 7. Fighter. . . . 12. Wizard . . . . 17. Wizard
    3. Fighter . . . . 8. Fighter. . . . 13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
    4. Fighter . . . . 9. Wizard. . . . .14. Wizard. . . . .19. Wizard
    5. Fighter . . . .10. Wizard. . . . .15. Wizard. . . . .20. Wizard



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt. . .32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .----. . .----. . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 15 . . . 14 . . . 15 . . . 16. . . .+6. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 16 . . . 18 . . . 18 . . . 18. . . .+6. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT


    Skills
    . . . . . F .F. F .F. F .F. F .F. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W
    . . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . . .4 .5 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Spellcr . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 7. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Intim . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . .2½ 2½ 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Heal. . . . . . . .½. ½ .½. ½ .2. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1½ 1½ 1½ 2½ 11
    Spot. . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. . . . . . . . .1½ 1½ 1 .½ .½ .½ . . 11
    Balance . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. . .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
    UMD . . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Tumble. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . 1. .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .24 .6. 6 .7. 7 .7. 7 .8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Artificer
    .1 Fighter: Cleave
    .2 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
    .3. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing
    .4 Fighter: Great Cleave
    .6. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    .6 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
    .8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
    .9. . . . : Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
    .9 Wizard : Extend Spell
    12. . . . : Empower Spell
    13 Wizard : Maximize Spell
    15. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
    18. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    18 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Intensify Spell
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
    28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
    30 Epic . : Mental Toughness
    30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Fire


    Spells

    Wizard
    1. Jump, Feather Fall, Merfolk's Blessing, Grease, Magic Missile
    2. Blur, Knock, Resist Energy, Invisibility, Scorching Ray
    3. Displacement, Haste, Chain Missiles, Rage, Magic Circle Against Evil
    4. Wall of Fire, Fire Shield, Dimension Door, Force Missiles
    5. Eladar's Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold, Protection from Elements, Teleport
    6. True Seeing, Greater Heroism, Greater Dispel Magic


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Kensei (33 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought
      1. Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
      2. Weapon Group Specialization
      3. Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Strike I
      4. Opportunity Attack, Weapon Group Specialization, Liquid Courage, Strike at the Heart
      5. Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Keen Edge

    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (15 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Flame, Spellsword II: Shock
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness I
      2. Improved Shield III, Martial Training
      3. Arcane Barrier III

    Stalwart Defender (13 AP)
    • Toughness, Stalwart Defense
      1. Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery II
      2. Resilient Defense III
      3. Tenacious Defense III

    Harper Agent (12 AP)
    • Agent of Good I
      1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
      2. Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat

    Half-Elf (7 AP)
    • Versatile Nature, Human Intelligence, Human Damage Boost
      1. Arcane Fluidity III


    Destiny (24 AP)

    Divine Crusader
    1. Bane of Undeath, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
    2. Consecration III, Flames of Purity II
    3. Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic
    4. No Regret, Crusade
    5. Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion
    6. Strike Down

    Twists of Fate (31 fate points)
    1. Energy Burst: Fire (Tier 4 Draconic)
    2. Dragon Heritage: Red (Tier 3 Draconic)
    3. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    4. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
    5. Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 09-08-2016 at 09:09 PM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  11. #31
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    This is off topic but mind if I ask you how did your acrobat hold in end game?

  12. #32
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    This is off topic but mind if I ask you how did your acrobat hold in end game?
    Sure, no problem. I don't usually mind veering off topic a little. I haven't quite gotten to endgame yet, but also don't intend to play it with this build. I'm currently level 27, I think. It does fine in EE and the only content I wouldn't feel comfortable taking it into is LE. I think it could handle LE if you max out it's potential, mainly through gear, but I don't have any intention of doing that. Playing an acrobat was something I've always wanted to do, but never got around to. Like the builds in this thread, it's just something for me to do for fun, but not the kind of build I'd want to fully invest in like I've done with my assassin or artificer. I may play around with it at 30 for a little while but will TR into one of these builds shortly after. And while I don't think an acrobat would be top of the build chain for endgame content, it would still be fully capable and a solid contributor if you put the time into it.

    I read through your undead fighter thread that you mentioned earlier and Vhayre linked. Near your last post in there, you talked about how you have limited playtime but want to play primarily at cap so you have less room for builds that aren't optimized for such content. I can understand that sentiment and your comments in this thread make more sense with that understanding. That has been my situation since my daughter was born almost four years ago now. I had much more limited playtime after she was born and chose to focus on playing at cap only. My playtime is still just as limited, but I've grown bored with always needing to be fully optimized to contribute properly, playing the same group of quests, and having little room for less than optimal builds.

    Then the changes to lootgen made it so powerful that endgame gearing basically required multiple pieces of lootgen and you had to simply get lucky to acquire the right combination. I can't stand luck based loot grinds because no amount of effort will affect whether or not you actually get what you're after. At least if I know which quest a piece of gear comes from I can just run that until my eyes bleed. Then it's just a matter of time. With crafted gear, it's just a matter of acquiring the ingredients. Lootgen is nothing but hoping you get lucky. It's lame. The data center move lag debacle was the last straw and I've barely logged in since then.

    To keep my enthusiasm for the game alive, I'm now more interested in playing whatever I want without limiting myself to a particular level of the game. To some extent, I feel like my time playing this game is coming to an end and I just want to play some builds I've never gotten around to before I'm done for good. My acrobat was the first of these builds and it looks like an arcane melee will be my next.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  13. #33
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Then the changes to lootgen made it so powerful that endgame gearing basically required multiple pieces of lootgen and you had to simply get lucky to acquire the right combination. I can't stand luck based loot grinds because no amount of effort will affect whether or not you actually get what you're after. At least if I know which quest a piece of gear comes from I can just run that until my eyes bleed. Then it's just a matter of time. With crafted gear, it's just a matter of acquiring the ingredients. Lootgen is nothing but hoping you get lucky. It's lame. The data center move lag debacle was the last straw and I've barely logged in since then.
    I also took a good long break after the data center move and resulting lag.

    I agree with the difficulty of getting good lootgen. I am hopeful the new cannith crafting system is the answer to that problem, although I have no idea how much work will be required to get to the point where I can make end game gear. For a while cannith crafting allowed me to make gear superior to many epic items back when the level cap was 20. Once the cap went to 25 and cannith crafting wasn't updated it became just leveling gear. Hopefully the new system will be a way to avoid that luck factor you mention and most importantly hopefully it will keep up with game changes and remain relevant.
    DC Warlock Reaper Build (U48)
    Max DC Illusionist Reaper Build (U48)

  14. #34
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I agree with the difficulty of getting good lootgen. I am hopeful the new cannith crafting system is the answer to that problem, although I have no idea how much work will be required to get to the point where I can make end game gear. For a while cannith crafting allowed me to make gear superior to many epic items back when the level cap was 20. Once the cap went to 25 and cannith crafting wasn't updated it became just leveling gear. Hopefully the new system will be a way to avoid that luck factor you mention and most importantly hopefully it will keep up with game changes and remain relevant.
    Yeah if Cannith crafting is updated to the same level of power as lootgen, and offers the same effects, then it would remove the random factor from random loot and go a long way toward restoring the ability to fully optimize endgame builds. And while I don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of time grinding more crafting levels, I can understand some time investment as a requirement for being able to customize top tier loot. But I haven't kept up with the official discussions about Cannith crafting changes, so I have no idea what it may or may not offer.

    And I would really like to hope that with the current level cap of 30 supposedly being the final level cap, the exponential increases we've seen in power creep will come to a halt. But that's probably just wishful thinking. If it doesn't slow down, then I'd expect Cannith crafting to be obsolete 1-2 updates after it's released... probably right about the time that endgame players get their crafting levels capped again lol.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  15. #35
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Arcane Warrior
    12/8 Wizard/Fighter
    True Neutral Half-Elf
    Since you're not taking a lvl 12 wiz core, perhaps wiz 11 / ftr 8 / barb 1 might be better for +10% runspeed; unless you need the +1 CL or extra spell slots for something I'm missing. If there were any APs to spare, I'd also take Imp Power Atk from Ravager; but I guess the only things you can drop are Tenacious Defense or Arcane Barrier, so that's not so good.

    EDIT: also is it worth being Good + Blessed Blades for DR-breaking?
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  16. #36
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Since you're not taking a lvl 12 wiz core, perhaps wiz 11 / ftr 8 / barb 1 might be better for +10% runspeed; unless you need the +1 CL or extra spell slots for something I'm missing.
    The extra caster level makes a tiny difference. Force missiles caps out at level 12, although I'm not even sure I'll get any use out of that spell. Also +1 damage for wall of fire, niac's, and eladar's, meh. And a slightly longer duration for short term buffs such as haste, displacement, and fire shield, also meh. 1 barb is certainly an option if run speed is a priority. I'll consider it, but I might lean toward the extra casting level.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If there were any APs to spare, I'd also take Imp Power Atk from Ravager; but I guess the only things you can drop are Tenacious Defense or Arcane Barrier, so that's not so good.
    Yeah, I don't really see anywhere to free up APs for that, at least nothing I'd be interested in giving up.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    EDIT: also is it worth being Good + Blessed Blades for DR-breaking?
    I considered blessed blades but, because the build is fire specced, figured I might end up avoiding most content where good DR bypass would be most useful (i.e. devil and demon content). It's certainly an option. Just drop no regret for it.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  17. #37
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Arcane Warrior
    14/6 Wizard/Fighter
    True Neutral Human

    I never played at endgame, so I was wondering why do you prefer Scion of plane of Earth instead of Shadowfell.
    The first gives you 20 PRR, the second 20 negative healing amp.
    The first 10 acid spell power and 30 universal, the second 40 negative.
    The first 2d20 acid damage on hit, the second 1d6 negative healing.
    So are you already good at self healing and do not need more? Or endgame play people die so easily that more PRR is better than more healing? Or you simply want more damage output?

    Another question, why strength based? Isn't int from harper with know the angles both more damage and more synergy?

    Third question, why THF? How does it compare to, say, SWF with bastard sword + orb? (or dwarf with dwarven axe, for that matter)

    Last partially-unrelated question, is int based 18/2 lich viable? Obviously it would be a totally different build.
    APs would be heavily shifted towards PM and EK, the build would lose kensai damage and incorporeality but gain caster levels, spell power and higher DC, while still having 11 bab at 20 to take the last fighting style feat.
    It would be more of a hybrid build, and I know that in DDO this is often a drawback, but you seem to know what you're doing so maybe you can give me advices.

  18. #38
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    I never played at endgame, so I was wondering why do you prefer Scion of plane of Earth instead of Shadowfell.
    The first gives you 20 PRR, the second 20 negative healing amp.
    The first 10 acid spell power and 30 universal, the second 40 negative.
    The first 2d20 acid damage on hit, the second 1d6 negative healing.
    So are you already good at self healing and do not need more? Or endgame play people die so easily that more PRR is better than more healing? Or you simply want more damage output?
    It's a choice between more dps or more self healing. I wouldn't intend to take that build into endgame, so for the content I would play it in, aura and burst healing should be sufficient, and you can never have too much damage. But since these are all flavor builds anyway, shadowfell would certainly taste better.

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Another question, why strength based? Isn't int from harper with know the angles both more damage and more synergy?
    My reasoning for this is covered in the OP. Basically, when going for the PM version, you don't have enough AP to invest in harper. The only way to fit in harper on that particular build is to drop some combination of stalwart defender, eldritch knight, or enough pale master to still take vampire form. And since you aren't building for DCs anyway, it just isn't worth it imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Third question, why THF? How does it compare to, say, SWF with bastard sword + orb? (or dwarf with dwarven axe, for that matter)
    Also covered in the OP. I have an SoS and everything to make it epic that has been sitting in my bank for years and I finally want to put them to use. No other reason beyond that. SWF is probably the more optimal choice for all of these builds if for no other reason than gearing. Gearing on any hybrid build is difficult and the offhand slot gives you a place to put spell power, so it's a valuable slot for sure. But my priority is to put that SoS to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Last partially-unrelated question, is int based 18/2 lich viable? Obviously it would be a totally different build.
    APs would be heavily shifted towards PM and EK, the build would lose kensai damage and incorporeality but gain caster levels, spell power and higher DC, while still having 11 bab at 20 to take the last fighting style feat.
    It would be more of a hybrid build, and I know that in DDO this is often a drawback, but you seem to know what you're doing so maybe you can give me advices.
    Actually, I would say this would be less of a hybrid build because melee dps would drop considerably while spell casting potential would increase, both to the point that you'd be better off casting all the time and not melee'ing at all. One of the biggest dps increases for a melee build is increasing crit range and multiplier. There's no way to do that with only 2 levels of any class. 3 levels of bard for swashbuckling stance is the absolute minimum to get crit range and multiplier, but that won't give you the option to go lich. And if you're a melee without those, then you're going to be WAY behind every other melee out there today. If there is a way to make it work, I'm sure unbongwah will be in here to offer you an option.

    Hope that helps.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  19. #39
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Last partially-unrelated question, is int based 18/2 lich viable?
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-of-Velsharoon

    An old build, but not much has substantively changed since then, other than new gear and level cap going to 30. With only two ftr lvls, you can't access the better Kensei / SD enhancements anyway, which means you're still a caster who swings a blade once in a while. Another option would be barb 1 / ftr 1 splash: trade a feat for +10% runspeed and possibly +3 Improved Power Atk.
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  20. #40
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    I'm about to TR out of this build and I just wanted to pop in here to say, the int-based half-elf version in post #30 worked surprisingly well. It performed very well in EE's, much better than I expected tbh. After taking a break from the game for several months, I was in the mid 20s with this build when I returned to the game, and I never brought it into reaper so I have no idea how it would perform there.

    Survivability was excellent. Arcane barrier is awesome and saved me from my reckless playstyle countless times. If I was in a group and things went south, I was often the last one standing.

    Melee dps was pretty solid also. I often led kill counts (for whatever that's worth), though not always by a large margin.

    Casting dps was just OK, but it offered some nice versatility. Although I did not use casting dps all the time, I enjoyed having it available when I wanted it.

    SP only became an issue when I relied heavily on casting dps. For this reason, if you want the casting dps option, I think int based is a necessity, unless you don't mind chugging pots.

    Four cleaves and energy burst makes for some awesome AoE dps, and arcane barrier helps with the damage you inevitably take with that playstyle. Great synergy throughout the build.

    Thanks to all who helped work out the details, especially to unbongwah who pointed out the helf possibility in the first place. It was a lot of fun to play.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 04-27-2017 at 12:18 PM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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