EE Fire on Thunder Peak solo speed run 11:14 Goldsunn, Elite Raiders of Khyber

[Knight_slayer]

I put this to the test though I was very certain of the results already and found that I was correct.
The 10/6/4 build beats the 12/6/2 build (on the record run) devastators time by about 28%.

I measured the time from dragon lift off till dragon touch down (in order for the dragons to touch down you need to kill the devastators and all the skeletons that were part of the devastators spawn).

Using the 12/6/2 build on the record run with the GOOD joy time was: 1:27
Using the 10/6/4 build on a test run with the GOOD joy time was: 1:08

Both runs were on even terms
Both did not use wellspring, no night reveals crit damage clickie, no spell power boost, no Tainted spell casting boost, no ear dweller.
The test run was made identical to how I used my resources on the speed run.

I've only seen joy one time in the four or five weeks I've been playing again. I'm not sure why you would test using joy. The best comparison is in speed runs because the player is trying to get the most out of their build. I took a look at some of the video of failed attempts. The best devastator time (from when they appear to when the dragon drops) is 1:06 without joy. Take a look at your sorcs videos and if there's one that even comes close to that I'd be very surprised. I'll put the video aside in case you're interested.

[Knight_slayer]

Is there some secret to getting a better chance of joy or do you just farming it? Because I never see it anymore. This being a joy run makes me wonder if I can compete with this at all, I will give it a few shots though.

Sick run, congrats and cheers for sharing it.

[Blue_wizards]

I've only seen joy one time in the four or five weeks I've been playing again. I'm not sure why you would test using joy. The best comparison is in speed runs because the player is trying to get the most out of their build. I took a look at some of the video of failed attempts. The best devastator time (from when they appear to when the dragon drops) is 1:06 without joy. Take a look at your sorcs videos and if there's one that even comes close to that I'd be very surprised. I'll put the video aside in case you're interested.

Well I went out to test the devastator time on my Gold Shiradi and as I started I thought, oh wait I had joy in the record run. Then boom, got joy.
Since the record run was done with joy the test run should be done with joy as well (was my first run). Running it back then on my sorc I just used the time of the my first completion on EE (that's why it was so sloppy) and I didn't keep old vidoes after I uploaded it to youtube.

Is there some secret to getting a better chance of joy or do you just farming it? Because I never see it anymore. This being a joy run makes me wonder if I can compete with this at all, I will give it a few shots though.


Sick run, congrats and cheers for sharing it.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to get joy more often. It's just random chance and very very low chance at that. I keep testing after updates and make a point to hit every shrine while questing in order to get some statistics but so far I've seen no improvement in joy proc rate.

The time can definitely be improved, and I have an idea I want to try out but the raid is RNG heavy and I don't like that.
Keep in mind that having joy adds to the lag so it is far from a net gain.

[Knight_slayer]

Keep in mind that having joy adds to the lag so it is far from a net gain.

Never known joy not to massively increase dps, unless it gets you killed.

In all my runs, there is a one minute difference in the devastator completion. Best time 1:06, worst about a minute slower but the majority are about 1:30. HERE is my best run without joy, I doubt the sorc build can even get close to that without joy. If the sorc is ahead on DPS, matching my best run shouldn't be a problem.

[moo_cow]

Keep in mind that having joy adds to the lag so it is far from a net gain.

That's complete nonsense. I don't even know why you would.... doesn't matter.

[Blue_wizards]

Never known joy not to massively increase dps, unless it gets you killed.

Joy undoubtedly increases dps and is always welcomed in spite of the lag it causes, at my end at least, however it really doesn't matter. There is plenty of room for improvement in my record run as well as better strategy to be used. I for one am certain I can improve my own record.

In all my runs, there is a one minute difference in the devastator completion. Best time 1:06, worst about a minute slower but the majority are about 1:30. HERE is my best run without joy, I doubt the sorc build can even get close to that without joy. If the sorc is ahead on DPS, matching my best run shouldn't be a problem.

I thought that the same person using the same resources (the good joy, no spell power boost, no tainted spell casting, no wellspring of power, no night reveals clickie) going for the same goal (killing both devastators and all the skeletons that spawn with them) on both the Gold Shiradi and the Ruin King builds and having the Gold Shiradi beat the Ruin King time by 28% (in the record run no less) would be a slam dunk in anyone's opinion that the Gold Shiradi has better DPS.

Beating your best run of 1:06 without joy and with the night reveals clickey, spell power boost and wellspring of power as were used in your run (very nice beatdown btw) should indeed not be a problem with my Gold Shiradi due to superior DPS however that will have to wait for tomorrow, won't be able to log on today.

That's complete nonsense. I don't even know why you would.... doesn't matter.

The good joy and it's zillion procs causes lag on my end or more acuuratly lower frame rate which somewhat hampers effective gameplay. As the context in which it was said and repeated by me I say this not to express why I could not beat my own record that had the good joy but to strengthen my conviction that it is possible and I can do it.

[Eth]

The good joy and it's zillion procs causes lag on my end or more acuuratly lower frame rate which somewhat hampers effective gameplay.

Try turning off all combat feedback in the UI settings. Seems to help a lot with this issue.

[Blue_wizards]

Never known joy not to massively increase dps, unless it gets you killed.

In all my runs, there is a one minute difference in the devastator completion. Best time 1:06, worst about a minute slower but the majority are about 1:30. HERE is my best run without joy, I doubt the sorc build can even get close to that without joy. If the sorc is ahead on DPS, matching my best run shouldn't be a problem.

Well like I said it wouldn't be a problem for the Gold Shiradi to beat the best time of the Ruin King.
It wasn't a smooth run and not nearly the best it can get but it did beat your time of 1:06.

Gold Shiradi Devestators beat down 1:02 (no joy, no spell power boost)





I think it's pretty clear that though both builds are powerful the Gold Shiradi Is superior to the Ruin King both in dps and in healing.

Try turning off all combat feedback in the UI settings. Seems to help a lot with this issue.

Thx for the tip Eth, that does help to a certain degree.

[Knight_slayer]

Devastator beatdown.

You know I started noticing some strange stuff happening in peaks, and I think its having a big effect on the speedruns. During the lag created by MM and shiradi procs some damage is being counted several times. Then I had THIS run. Take a look at the first ruin during that lag spike. If you watch frame by frame you see that the ruin hits at least 4x. Kinda makes me suspect on that whole encounter.

EDIT: Because of the bug we have found in this raid I have to say the jury is still out on the DPS comparison. I just don't see a slightly faster casting animation and 4% crit chance making up for the loss of 30% crit damage.

[Eth]

You know I started noticing some strange stuff happening in peaks, and I think its having a big effect on the speedruns. During the lag created by MM and shiradi procs some damage is being counted several times.

With the right amount of server side lag (lag on your end doesn't seem to matter) the game sometime seems to 'confuse' spells and puts effects of one into another.

The easiest to explain this, is when you cast a past life MM (ten procs) followed by a ruin and instead of 10 MM damage procs you see 10 ruins go off (I'm not kidding).
The only place where this seems to work somewhat reliable is lagfests like shroud.

[Blue_wizards]

That is quite an amazing beat down. I'd say without doubt including the amazing healing and that DPS display the sorc it is a far superior build.

You know I started noticing some strange stuff happening in peaks, and I think its having a big effect on the speedruns. During the lag created by MM and shiradi procs some damage is being counted several times. Then I had THIS run. Take a look at the first ruin during that lag spike. If you watch frame by frame you see that the ruin hits at least 4x. Kinda makes me suspect on that whole encounter.

With the right amount of server side lag (lag on your end doesn't seem to matter) the game sometime seems to 'confuse' spells and puts effects of one into another.

The easiest to explain this, is when you cast a past life MM (ten procs) followed by a ruin and instead of 10 MM damage procs you see 10 ruins go off (I'm not kidding).
The only place where this seems to work somewhat reliable is lagfests like shroud.

I thought I saw that in a MoD run (laggy as heck of course) but couldn't verify since combat log was over written by the time I could scroll back and check.
Seeing that Devastator go down in one shot pretty much verifies it. That's pretty funny stuff!

[Eth]

I thought I saw that in a MoD run (laggy as heck of course) but couldn't verify since combat log was over written by the time I could scroll back and check.
Seeing that Devastator go down in one shot pretty much verifies it. That's pretty funny stuff!

First time I saw this happen was in LE tempest spine lootruns after the server migration (which was practically laggy all the time).
Those red names have 1.2+ million HP and I practically landed the mother of all ruins (540k total damage in one PL MM+Greater Ruin). I guess this isn't even new stuff, it's just a lot more noticible on the combination of MM+Ruin.

I haven't done a ton of testing on it, but it doesn't seem to be reproducable. Like I said, seems it absolutely requires the server to lag (but hey, it's DDO, we have that all the time).
I had some shroud runs were I could see it happen 3-4 times in part 1 when actually trying for it.

[Knight_slayer]

Seeing that Devastator go down in one shot pretty much verifies it. That's pretty funny stuff!

I've seen it in a few runs. I prep one ele to 50% with dots then target other which is at about 75% from aoe, then they both die at about the same time. But in a few runs, I swap targets at 50% and just a few seconds later it drops dead. I always wondered *** but never thought it was a bug, then I had the one shot ruin and knew something was up. Not everything makes it on to the combat log, it moves so fast some stuff just doesn't make it on to the screen but you can see greater ruin 52,265 four times in a row at one point.

[Knight_slayer]

There is some strange stuff in this video as well. Look at 19-21 seconds. I don't think this is a good encounter for a DPS test, which is sad because its perfect for a shiradi DPS test. 2 bosses and 15 trash mobs shows single target and AOE damage. What boss encounter is like this? Maybe slavers end fight.

[Blue_wizards]

There is some strange stuff in this video as well. Look at 19-21 seconds. I don't think this is a good encounter for a DPS test, which is sad because its perfect for a shiradi DPS test. 2 bosses and 15 trash mobs shows single target and AOE damage. What boss encounter is like this? Maybe slavers end fight.

Looks like lag is playing a part and messing up ruin and great ruin. On close examination your 1:06 run seems to have double procs or something as well, your G.Ruin without supremacy and without well spring doing 39-43k and ruin doing .32k
Any boss + mob fight with heavy spamming will induce lag and probably show the same thing. Unlike fighting the dragons throughout the raid this part actually has non stop spell spamming and heavy lag.

Simplest thing would be not to use ruin and g.ruin but that puts the ruin king in a disadvantage.
Still, I think that since both runs showed this and yours was the best product of many goes at it the conclusion is valid.

[Knight_slayer]

Looks like lag is playing a part and messing up ruin and great ruin. On close examination your 1:06 run seems to have double procs or something as well, your G.Ruin without supremacy and without well spring doing 39-43k and ruin doing .32k
Any boss + mob fight with heavy spamming will induce lag and probably show the same thing. Unlike fighting the dragons throughout the raid this part actually has non stop spell spamming and heavy lag.

Simplest thing would be not to use ruin and g.ruin but that puts the ruin king in a disadvantage.
Still, I think that since both runs showed this and yours was the best product of many goes at it the conclusion is valid.

Its not just Ruin, just that its more noticeable with ruin because of the big damage. What second mark is the ruin you are talking about in my run?

[Blue_wizards]

Its not just Ruin, just that its more noticeable with ruin because of the big damage. What second mark is the ruin you are talking about in my run?

Been away for a while, as for your question:
At 30 and 47 seconds mark (no wellspring or supremacy active at those times so it has to be a multi proc).
Not gross a multi proc as your one shot devastator in the other run you showed though.

[Knight_slayer]

Been away for a while, as for your question:
At 30 and 47 seconds mark (no wellspring or supremacy active at those times so it has to be a multi proc).
Not gross a multi proc as your one shot devastator in the other run you showed though.

I just looked at 30 second mark. 1st ruin is just ruin. HP go from 170k to 150k. Second one is greater ruin and HP go from 150k to 110k. This is just a normal crit with 30 stack of MoK.

47 second mark greater ruin is 40k, 206k down to 166k. Again, just a normal ruin crit.

[Blue_wizards]

There is some strange stuff in this video as well. Look at 19-21 seconds. I don't think this is a good encounter for a DPS test, which is sad because its perfect for a shiradi DPS test. 2 bosses and 15 trash mobs shows single target and AOE damage. What boss encounter is like this? Maybe slavers end fight.

I just looked at 30 second mark. 1st ruin is just ruin. HP go from 170k to 150k. Second one is greater ruin and HP go from 150k to 110k. This is just a normal crit with 30 stack of MoK.

47 second mark greater ruin is 40k, 206k down to 166k. Again, just a normal ruin crit.

Well I looked at both runs (your best run and my test run) in which the Gold Shiradi beats your Ruin King and they both look fine at close examination.
You are correct, your non supremacy G.ruin hits for ~40k and your non supremacy Ruin hits for 20k. What throw me off was your energy burst that was thrown in the mix.

In my Run what happened at 19-21 seconds in is 100k damage that seems odd but it is again the energy burst that apparently throw us both off.
My G. Ruin, Ruin and Energy Burst all under Supremacy produced 100k damage together which adds up.

The only video that clearly shows a bug is the one you linked HERE in which you one shot the Devastator 14 seconds in and of course isn't a measure for DPS though you titled it saying it does? why so? Edit* I see you changed the title now*

In any case I saw you TR'ed out of your Ruin King so I guess you aren't going for the solo record anymore.

[Knight_slayer]

In my Run what happened at 19-21 seconds in is 100k damage that seems odd but it is again the energy burst that apparently throw us both off.

You are right, greater ruin, ruin and eburst could be 100k. There are 2 jumps, 55k and 49k. Maybe ruin and eburst got mixed in to 1 jump. Its an awesome run gold, you are dropping 100% on that encounter where as in my example I am mid raid solo, only got wellspring last 10 seconds, saved PL missiles etc etc. The sorc is a much better build to play in general speaking. SP efficient, healing etc. In my experience ruin king is higher DPS.