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  1. #1
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Default Congratulations SSG, You Finally Destroyed Endgame Completely

    ... with the setting that was supposed to revitalize it. We told you, to not implement the trees, but you didn't listen to the feedback.

    Ok, fine, you wanted to put them there to make people buy potions and keep them playing, fine. But this implementation was terrible. It is a huge decintenve to endgame, it's the last nail on it's coffin. I have been watching the LFMs during this week, and the number of LFMs for endgame is going down and down, since people started to realize the xp on heroics is much better, and the variety of quests is huge. Today only now I have seen a LFM for endgame, wich is a slaver run on non-reaper, and I've been playing for 4 hours straight.

    Before someone says that we didn't want the trees on the first place, you have to realize the current system is basically telling players: We don't want you to stay at endgame and we want you to TR. It is also destroying endgame. It's harder to find a party for a raid now than it was before the update. This sucks, considering reaper was being seen by players (doesn't matter what was SSG/Turbine idea) as the big promise to make endgame intresting, and that we have been waiting this for over a year. Totally disapointed with this now.

    /rant off, now let's be constructive

    The big problems are the first time bonus and xp not scaling with quest length. Let's talk about the first for now. Not going to talk about the overlv penalities that are ridiculous (the fact that a R10 lv 24 quest at cap pays less than R1 at lv is just so wrong I don't think it's needed to talk about that for any sane person).

    If you do not remove the first time bonus, it will always be a disincentive to stay at cap. It will always be like telling players you don't want us to stay on endgame. You have to remove it, simply.

    The second is obvious. The quest xp is scaling with quest lv, but it's too few, and the quests we have at lv 30, wich are few, are longer on average than the rest of the game. The high lv quests have to pay a ton more. Change their xp so that you can get at least the same per time as if you were running heroics. Yes, including if you are overlv, because the number of cap level quests is ridiculously low. Given that to run at endgame you have to be more invested, it should pay more.
    Ex player. This game had it's peak fun in 2011. After that, 2018. The rest is nostalgia from these 2 eras. I'd be lying if I didn't say I had some fun with MotU and in eGH, thought.
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/NethereseDDO

  2. #2
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    endgame lfms have been pretty dismal / far and few in between lately

    Most people only care about the reaper xp -> tr cycle is most efficient.

    It is fairly sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  3. #3
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    I agree with you, OP. But for future reference, here's a list of things that the team at SSG believes don't exist:

    * Endgame
    * Power creep
    * Imbalance between builds
    * Imbalance between combat styles
    * Customers who don't want to reincarnate
    * Their own mistakes with game design decisions
    * Good ideas from community members
    * Reasons not to invalidate systems and loot of one or more updates ago
    * Effective testing and quality assurance processes
    * Competitor MMOs that sufficiently irritated customers could play instead

    I'm sure there are more, but this pretty much covers the cryptids most commonly mentioned on the forums. Your Sasquatches, Loch Ness Monsters, Chupacabras, you know ...

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 02-11-2017 at 03:21 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Rys's Avatar
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    I agree. The lfms are much much slower now at the level 30 range. It was pretty fun to pug reaper after the update but I guess it is soon back to duo/break since everyone moved onto the TR wheel and nobody is hitting the lfms anymore.

  5. #5
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    Forcing everyone to TR basically allows Completionists to interact with new players. This is a good thing.

    It also gives an endgame difficulty that requires teamwork. This is also a good thing.

    The real problem is that Cannith only has 2 LFM at any given time and 50% went to TR. That's more a population issue than anything.

  6. #6
    Community Member Mr_Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    Forcing everyone to TR basically allows Completionists to interact with new players. This is a good thing.
    LOLz

    I sense much greatness in this thread.

  7. #7
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    Default

    /popcorn

    /ibtl

    /rockstars

  8. #8
    Community Member Astoroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    ... with the setting that was supposed to revitalize it. We told you, to not implement the trees, but you didn't listen to the feedback.

    If you do not remove the first time bonus, it will always be a disincentive to stay at cap. It will always be like telling players you don't want us to stay on endgame. You have to remove it, simply.

    The second is obvious. The quest xp is scaling with quest lv, but it's too few, and the quests we have at lv 30, wich are few, are longer on average than the rest of the game. The high lv quests have to pay a ton more. Change their xp so that you can get at least the same per time as if you were running heroics. Yes, including if you are overlv, because the number of cap level quests is ridiculously low. Given that to run at endgame you have to be more invested, it should pay more.
    Reaper shouldn't be a new ebb. The real solution is to greatly reduce the normal experience that reaper is providing. Currently players are getting basically ebb experience on top of reaper rewards and benefits; a two for one deal. They need to be separated for the sake of the basic game.

  9. #9

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    !Ding! New Player One has joined your party.

    Completionist: Hold my beer while I solo 3 skulls.

    New Player One: Wait I'm not done buffing...

    !Ding! 368 Reaper experience awarded!

    Completionist: gj New Player One. K thanks, bye.

    !ding!
    A wise man once said that if you don't know the answer to something there is no shame in simply saying "I don't know."

  10. #10
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    It seems really ironic that the difficulty that was designed due to complaints of nothing to do with capped characters in endgame has instead apparently restarted the hamster wheel for those characters and left the people not willing to do that with a low pool of applicants to play endgame with.

    Just had to put that in because the law of unintended consequences appears to apply here in a big way.

    I doubt that SSG would intentionally take the cry for an endgame for capped characters and decide to bait and switch them back onto the hamster wheel. There's a little bit too much Snidely Whiplash in the latter concept.

  11. #11
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    Default Agree...but...

    Hey Ellihor...

    I posted the same thing in my "cannith deader than ever" thread here..I got crucified by people saying it must be my imagination, I don't know what I am talking about, etc etc...

    I can't ER as I have all 3x...I don't want to TR as I have all the PL I could ever need...yet I can't stay at cap as we have a hard time filling a grp for reaper 10 skull...and i refuse to farm reaper 1 skull at cap like a lemming...

    The system is a fail for endgame players...it literally punishes long time loyal players who want to enjoy the toughest content in the game...they will fall so far beyond the lemmings on the servers farming 1 skull...

    It is too late to fix this problem now as you cannot undo what was done...I can assure your though that many endgame players will leave...a lot in our guild already has...I am sure some of yours will too very soon...
    Last edited by Zoriaan; 02-12-2017 at 01:17 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Kza's Avatar
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    I agree, my triple completionist all pastlives done tr:d today. Its just not enough quests to do efficient in reaper mode to get the xp fast enough.

    My solutions: all lvl 28+ quests 0 reaper xp penalty to play
    all 28+ quests 0 reaper xp penaly to do more than once

    its "insane" imho that i get much much more reaper xp doing ringleader and other Harbor quests in 5-10 min than my second slaver run that takes longer time.

    PLZ PLZ rethink how reaper xp gives out at cap. (plz buff that and dont nerf the lower settings)

    thanks in advance and i have to admit my joy over reaper start to dwindle then i understood this.

    Kzahad on khyber

  13. #13
    Community Member Mr_Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post

    I doubt that SSG would intentionally take the cry for an endgame for capped characters and decide to bait and switch them back onto the hamster wheel. There's a little bit too much Snidely Whiplash in the latter concept.
    I take the position that this was absolutely 100% intentional on behalf of SSG.

    Hamster wheel makes them more money, people sitting at cap doesn't make them squat.

  14. #14
    Community Member Kza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoriaan View Post
    Hey Ellihor...

    I posted the same thing in my "cannith deader than ever" thread here and on the vault...I got crucified by people saying it must be my imagination, I don't know what I am talking about, etc etc...

    I can't ER as I have all 3x...I don't want to TR as I have all the PL I could ever need...yet I can't stay at cap as we have a hard time filling a grp for reaper 10 skull...and i refuse to farm reaper 1 skull at cap like a lemming...

    The system is a fail for endgame players...it literally punishes long time loyal players who want to enjoy the toughest content in the game...they will fall so far beyond the lemmings on the servers farming 1 skull...

    It is too late to fix this problem now as you cannot undo what was done...I can assure your though that many endgame players will leave...a lot in our guild already has...I am sure some of yours will too very soon...
    (You can er, nps at all. You just dont get any benefit from it)

  15. #15
    Community Member YUTANG75's Avatar
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    It will only be a short term problem, once people get bored of grinding rxp/gear up with the new mythic and reaper boost items I suspect you'll see some more activity in the endgame content as people start wanting to get reaper boost on those items too.

    The biggest problem seems to be that a 10 min quest and a 1h quest will give the same XP on the same level and skulls. The base XP of the quest should be taken into consideration. Especially in heroics.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kza View Post
    (You can er, nps at all. You just dont get any benefit from it)
    You sure? I checked and last time it did not give me the option to ER as there was no option to choose from in any of the spheres...I will check again...but still...what is the point...I want to stay at cap and enjoy the fabled end game

  17. #17
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    Solutions do not need to be positive, if they hurt us we can clearly hurt them as well.

  18. #18
    Community Member Blastyswa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    Forcing everyone to TR basically allows Completionists to interact with new players. This is a good thing.

    It also gives an endgame difficulty that requires teamwork. This is also a good thing.

    The real problem is that Cannith only has 2 LFM at any given time and 50% went to TR. That's more a population issue than anything.
    20+ LFMs up right now bud, and quite a few more are up fairly frequently. The only time Cannith has 2 LFMs up is 2:00 A.M. U.S. time on weekends as much of the population is U.S./South America, or after downtime. New players shouldn't be playing on reaper anyways, so what actually ends up happening is now that reaper is so important for the leveling process (For reaper xp, which those completionists surely care about) that fresh outta korthos new players are joining completionist reaper 5 skull LFMs, dying 20 times, and deciding the game sucks. Keeping elite as the highest difficulty in heroics would have left newb's able to actually find groups and contribute, but new player retention is definitely not something looked for by the current developers.
    Dazling of Cannith

  19. #19
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    so please explain to me ... everyone complained about the reaper trees and xp grind and a lot of folks just wanted cosmetics and benign type rewards ... what is stopping capped players from following through with this and running any level 24 and up quest at reaper 10. If you are so against the xp grind, why are you complaining about it when you don't have to partake in it. Are you losing ground on other folks that are grinding it?

    It seems a conundrum that I don't get ... all the top tier capped folks didn't want reaper xp grind, but now that its here they are complaining about it when it is totally voluntary to partake in. You can still sit at cap and run any 24+ level quest for the "fun of completion" with a group of your friends. To me it seems obvious that the feeling of end gamers saying they wanted to run it for fun was a lie. That option still exists, but no one wants to take it. The devs were right in saying that without some type of rewards, people won't run the content "just for fun".

  20. #20
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    This thread is approved by the 2017 DDO Trolls Council.

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