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  1. #1
    Community Member Michaelaz2's Avatar
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    Default Game is dying so this was the fix ?

    People are tired of the grind and LFM's show it , game is on its last leg , "Heres double remnants!" Thats why game is dying , devs have lost touch with player base
    * Michaelaz *Myfavwizzy * Medalert * Mikeaz * Kernall * Myfavsoul * MyOrc * Myfav * Myfavsorc *

  2. #2
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Edge much?

    The game is in no worse shape than it was last week, or the week before, or the week before that. Double Remnants is just one of the weekly special buff events that runs and it's not anything "special", per say, it just came up in the list. You don't need to worry about it, you can just go back to edging it up.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
    Reaper Experience Calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ewE/edit#gid=0 (out of date as of U42.4, needs testing for new values)

  3. #3
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    haven't noticed any real difference in population numbers. I wouldn't judge the state of the game by lfm activity alone because it can be misleading. this is what I mean when I say "perceptional data".

    just going off the lfm activity, the trend I see is about triple or more in heroics than what I see in epics. just now logged off from Khyber and again this was the case. saw a few EN dailies, a few Reaper, and a few EE quests and one was hard. I also watched a few lfms go down after a time when nobody joined. heroics again was about 3/4 Reaper. from what I am hearing and seeing, Reaper has gotten more players into static groups and using channels now. while some may have spots open and put up an lfm but some don't. what I am also seeing is that not all lfms are filling either regardless of difficulty, but still running content. YMMV on your server.

    I'm sure some players are tired of the grind, but that's on them how much they want to participate. word on the street is racial past lives and Reaper xp in heroics is the new fad. tay tay is doing it so everyone else is doing it too.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  4. #4
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    I think more and more people are running in static groups and guild groups and forgoing the LFM. I think the pug scene is lacking...but I think overall population is pretty steady.
    Leader of Legion of Eberron on Cannith.

    Characters: Loromir & Baldomir....among others.

  5. #5
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

    .59746.

  6. #6
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelaz2 View Post
    People are tired of the grind and LFM's show it , game is on its last leg , "Heres double remnants!" Thats why game is dying , devs have lost touch with player base
    Wait what?

    Only 2 weeks ago a forumite posted a thread (located HERE) asking about this event and saying they wanted it back. Many agreed (one other poster mentioning many players have been asking for this weekend bonus to return for a long time, and another mentioning many in game discussions about wanting it to return), and Cordovan replied in that thread "Yes, it has been a while. I'll bring it up"... and now it's here.

    How is that out of touch? Players asked, devs replied and delivered. Is it because some players who do not care about remnants simply stayed quite and went about their business? Humans cannot read minds. If no one says anything, people an only guess what they might be thinking. In this situation, players spoke up, and the Devs listened and then responded in kind.

    (now it is true that sometimes people come up with some really oddball ideas that do not take the large picture into account and will simply not work, but they (the devs) do appear to be paying attention to what is happening in game and on the forums)

    (whether they are able to deal with everything in a timely manner (or at all) is something else entirely, especially given this games age)

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelaz2 View Post
    People are tired of the grind and LFM's show it , game is on its last leg , "Heres double remnants!" Thats why game is dying , devs have lost touch with player base
    time for you to Finish Out
    Anaplian and Csimian
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    AUREON/ KEEPER 2006-2009 | CANNITH 2010-

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    I think more and more people are running in static groups and guild groups and forgoing the LFM.
    I'm pretty guilty of short-manning with friends and rarely throwing the remaining spots open in LFM. Sometimes pugs are good sometimes not. Friends only is a guarantee.
    Last edited by Cantor; 05-05-2017 at 07:35 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member awar1234's Avatar
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    Default Omg you people are soooooo easy

    Why do any of you even respond to this stuff??

    Ignore these kinds of people, they will go away all by them selves.....


    Sigh".........

  10. #10
    Community Member Mofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryxnr View Post
    Wait what?Only 2 weeks ago a forumite posted a thread (located HERE) asking about this event and saying they wanted it back. Many agreed (one other poster mentioning many players have been asking for this weekend bonus to return for a long time, and another mentioning many in game discussions about wanting it to return), and Cordovan replied in that thread "Yes, it has been a while. I'll bring it up"... and now it's here.How is that out of touch? Players asked, devs replied and delivered. Is it because some players who do not care about remnants simply stayed quite and went about their business? Humans cannot read minds. If no one says anything, people an only guess what they might be thinking. In this situation, players spoke up, and the Devs listened and then responded in kind.(now it is true that sometimes people come up with some really oddball ideas that do not take the large picture into account and will simply not work, but they (the devs) do appear to be paying attention to what is happening in game and on the forums)(whether they are able to deal with everything in a timely manner (or at all) is something else entirely, especially given this games age)
    To be honest, those threads were asking for the event back so that the special items would be available from the vendor. They were saying that we have too many remnants and need to off load some of them. They brought the event back and forgot to update the vendor. So yes, this seems a little out of touch with what the community asked for.
    Darkwinn, Milkus, Terismina, Gothmawg, Dreylock, Drunarah, Bigbhamboo, etc on Sarlona / Brixlynn, Mofus, Curgoth, Deidlit, etc on Ghalanda.

  11. #11
    Community Member math92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    I think overall population is pretty steady.

  12. #12
    Community Member Astoroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    haven't noticed any real difference in population numbers. I wouldn't judge the state of the game by lfm activity alone because it can be misleading. this is what I mean when I say "perceptional data".
    just going off the lfm activity, the trend I see is about triple or more in heroics than what I see in epics.

    I'm sure some players are tired of the grind, but that's on them how much they want to participate. word on the street is racial past lives and Reaper xp in heroics is the new fad. tay tay is doing it so everyone else is doing it too.
    If most of the lfms are for reaper heroics, it clearly has a direct effect on all other aspects of the game. Whether it's raiding or farming epic past lives, or w/e. If the reduced number of lfms are mostly for 1 thing with a much tighter level restriction it is in fact good an indication of how other aspects of the game are dying.

    Also long term they seemingly balance for the guy with all the past lives like its the base instead of the top end. The experience divide is too high for playing on normal or w/e compared with reaper on bravery bonus. It's dysfunctional to make the game take 3 times as long for the gimp character. The past lives have become disproportionately grindy as they have multiplied in variety. The buy in for the new, casual or alt player is just too high. The game has gone down a dysfunctional development path.

    Quick start at level 10, is their solution? That's such a joke, starting level for a new character has almost nothing to do with the power gap between players.

    1: Balance experience for difficulty and bravery bonus, to be more like 10, 20 and 30% instead of 300% on top end.
    2: Remove the 2million plus penalty they added onto iconic and epic reincarnation.
    3: Allow racial reincarnation to be a twofer and get the class past life as well.
    4: Past lives should be shared across an account.
    Last edited by Astoroth; 05-06-2017 at 07:56 AM.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    haven't noticed any real difference in population numbers. I wouldn't judge the state of the game by lfm activity alone because it can be misleading. this is what I mean when I say "perceptional data".
    Everyone plays in their bubble.
    In your bubble, everything may be just fine.
    The guild is steady, you have your static group, all is great. (<----assumptions)
    But other people's bubbles may not be so awesome.
    If people are saying they are having problems, then maybe we should take them at their word.
    Obviously, the bubble for a new player is not so great, if it exists at all.
    (Although honestly, IDK if "new player" is even a consideration at this point, given the age of the game.)

    But as far as Double Remnants being some sign of Dev arrogance?
    Of course not. They do that stuff all the time.
    I believe the devs are doing their best in a sticky situation with a game that has been pulled in so many directions over the years that it's taffy at this point.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps.

  14. #14
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    Quick start at level 10, is their solution? That's such a joke, starting level for a new character has almost nothing to do with the power gap between players.
    If they allow it on ALL Lives I'd say it's a brilliant idea BUT IF IT'S 1ST LIFE ONLY IT'S USELESS! I'm not creating ANYMORE ALTS! I have too many already! Trying to get new players to fall into that trap when the Devs so clearly balance based on the single toon player is just wrong!

    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    1: Balance experience for difficulty and bravery bonus, to be more like 10, 20 and 30% instead of 300% on top end.
    Normal in Heroics is dead unless you absolutely HAVE to play it, i.e. are F2P on Wayfinder!

    Hard in Heroics basically you're soloing and then only if you're F2P and not on 3rd+ Life

    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    2: Remove the 2million plus penalty they added onto iconic and epic reincarnation.
    Amen to that!

    I still cannot understand what the heck they were thinking punishing new players and those with alts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    3: Allow racial reincarnation to be a twofer and get the class past life as well.
    Absolutely agreed - Allow us to buy a Heroic Heart of Wood and a Heroic Heart of Blood, take them both to the Stone of Change and turn them into a double heart! {40 token cost instead of 20}

    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    4: Past lives should be shared across an account.
    Uh.....No!

    Let's not go too far!

  15. #15
    Community Member Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    Quick start at level 10, is their solution? That's such a joke, starting level for a new character has almost nothing to do with the power gap between players.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    If they allow it on ALL Lives I'd say it's a brilliant idea BUT IF IT'S 1ST LIFE ONLY IT'S USELESS! I'm not creating ANYMORE ALTS! I have too many already! Trying to get new players to fall into that trap when the Devs so clearly balance based on the single toon player is just wrong!
    I'm pretty sure the "Start at level 10" thing is directed at new players, not existing players.

    When they released MoTU Expansion, they provided XP stones that would advance players from level 8 to level 16. This was done so that people who never played DDO before and were coming to the game to play Forgotten Realms content did not have to play 16 levels of Eberron content to get to Forgotten Realms. Existing players used them to get a quick PL done too, but that wasn't the primary objective.

    When they released Shadowfell Expansion, they created the Iconic Class characters that start at level 15. They were bundled in with the various versions of the Expansion. That content started at level 15, so they started the Iconics there. That way, players new to the game, (or returning players whose characters were massively out of date or at the wrong level) could easily play the new expansion. The next release introduced the idea of Epic Reincarnation and Iconic Reincarnation, which made Iconics interesting to existing players as well, but their primary introduction was a quick gateway to the expansion content.

    When they release the third expansion, Ravenloft, it is not surprising that they will include a vehicle for new players to start their experience with the expansion content. This will be the 3rd time they have done so. The primary goal of this feature is to allow new players access to Ravenloft on day 1 of the expansion.

    I think any existing players looking at it as anything other than a new player convenience and saying "well it won't help me" is clearly missing the intent of the feature. It is not really designed to address power gap between players or to convince existing players to create alts. If you feel it is "useless" then you probably aren't the intended audience. And that's OK. Not every single feature they create needs to be targeted to you. The game is bigger than any one person's interests or experience.
    Last edited by DDOTalk71; 05-06-2017 at 09:29 AM.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  16. #16
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    If most of the lfms are for reaper heroics, it clearly has a direct effect on all other aspects of the game. Whether it's raiding or farming epic past lives, or w/e. If the reduced number of lfms are mostly for 1 thing with a much tighter level restriction it is in fact good an indication of how other aspects of the game are dying.

    Also long term they seemingly balance for the guy with all the past lives like its the base instead of the top end. The experience divide is too high for playing on normal or w/e compared with reaper on bravery bonus. It's dysfunctional to make the game take 3 times as long for the gimp character. The past lives have become disproportionately grindy as they have multiplied in variety. The buy in for the new, casual or alt player is just too high. The game has gone down a dysfunctional development path.

    Quick start at level 10, is their solution? That's such a joke, starting level for a new character has almost nothing to do with the power gap between players.

    1: Balance experience for difficulty and bravery bonus, to be more like 10, 20 and 30% instead of 300% on top end.
    2: Remove the 2million plus penalty they added onto iconic and epic reincarnation.
    3: Allow racial reincarnation to be a twofer and get the class past life as well.
    4: Past lives should be shared across an account.
    I completely agree if most lfms are for Reaper heroic it has an affect on other parts of the game, but by no means is it an indication that the game is dying or the population is lower. its a mistake to judge the game purely on lfm activity. I have been saying since day 1 when Reaper was released that epics are basically dead, but I was told my anecdotal data was too small a sample size and to give it time with racial reincarnation and Dragonborn being new things players wanted to check out. nobody wanted to listen to me about Reaper and the affects it causes in the game or that the population shifted majorly from epics to heroics. nobody saw this as a problem.. at first. now finally starting to see others speak up about their experiences that echo mine. so what we might get is more Reaper incentives for Reaper players that want to play in epics and some numbers that say there is only a small amount of players running Reaper as if numbers can tell the whole story.

    the reason why there is so much focus on the "top end" of players with multiple past lives and years of experience is because these players continue to dominate the highest challenge and than there are complaints of "the game is too easy". Reaper isn't supposed to solve this issue, but its supposed to be an alternative for those wanting that kind of challenge. one of the few things I cautioned with was the rewards for Reaper and to not over incentivize it. well, they did and its completely changed the game.

    the starting at level 10 is the same reason why they did Iconics at level 15. SSG wants players to be able to start right out in a new expansion if they choose to. just like what happened with Eveningstar, Ravenloft will bring in new and returning players that are drawn to this content. trust me, this is a big deal for SSG and they say their numbers show expansions draw in players, especially popular content like Ravenloft. starting at level 10 is for this reason and this reason only.

    1. I don't know about this, but experience between N/H, H/E should be much closer and not such a big gap. BB is not going to change because SSG is afraid of the backlash. if you notice, BB is a touchy subject for players.

    2. I don't see the big deal for this. Iconics get a 2 for 1 deal. before Reaper came along, I could easily do a level per day and still have time left over during the night to do something else before time for bed. leveling really is not an issue for Iconics or ERs. my current character is on his 11th straight epic past life. BB? whats that?

    3. I actually agree with this. it makes 0 sense to not do it, unless its a coding problem. the only reason I can think of for not doing it is SSG wants to make the grind last to keep players busy. xp and acquiring past lives is really not that hard these days with several different ways to approach it that all work fast.

    4. this would be a huge mistake and again, does not incentivize playing alts. this would actually significantly decrease the grind in the game and SSG would potentially lose out on money. it also makes 0 lore sense for characters to share past lives.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  17. #17
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    Everyone plays in their bubble.
    In your bubble, everything may be just fine.
    The guild is steady, you have your static group, all is great. (<----assumptions)
    But other people's bubbles may not be so awesome.
    If people are saying they are having problems, then maybe we should take them at their word.
    Obviously, the bubble for a new player is not so great, if it exists at all.
    (Although honestly, IDK if "new player" is even a consideration at this point, given the age of the game.)

    But as far as Double Remnants being some sign of Dev arrogance?
    Of course not. They do that stuff all the time.
    I believe the devs are doing their best in a sticky situation with a game that has been pulled in so many directions over the years that it's taffy at this point.
    I suggest checking my posting history over the past few months and read my sig. that should explain how things are in my bubble world.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  18. #18
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    I think any existing players looking at it as anything other than a new player convenience and saying "well it won't help me" is clearly missing the intent of the feature. It is not really designed to address power gap between players or to convince existing players to create alts. If you feel it is "useless" then you probably aren't the intended audience. And that's OK. Not every single feature they create needs to be targeted to you. The game is bigger than any one person's interests or experience.
    Starting brand new players at any level other than Lvl 1 has been proven time and again to be a very bad idea - Vet Status isn't part of VIP for a Reason! Same for Vet II!

    Iconics are actually the worst of the worst for this because it's an absolute nightmare to take a gimped 1st Life character through 10 Epic Levels! Then when you do get to 30 ERing is a trap in itself on an Iconic!

    Yes this will benefit returnees who just want to create a quick start character to run Ravenloft with but then you're not actually helping the game because most of those won't stay after they've played Ravenloft or at most got that one character to Lvl 30!

    We've got to get new players to stick around - There's still plenty of new players coming to DDO, The default server gets a HUGE Boost every time the default changes!
    The problem is THEY DON'T STAY! They see the grind required in this game and say "Hell No!"

    And guess what - Existing players ARE going to create new alts!
    And that's the TRAP!
    Start at Lvl 4,7,10 on every single life depending on Vet Status = Fine!
    Just on 1st Life =

  19. #19
    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    More complaints but no suggestions? to help.

  20. #20
    Community Member Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Starting brand new players at any level other than Lvl 1 has been proven time and again to be a very bad idea - Vet Status isn't part of VIP for a Reason! Same for Vet II!

    Iconics are actually the worst of the worst for this because it's an absolute nightmare to take a gimped 1st Life character through 10 Epic Levels! Then when you do get to 30 ERing is a trap in itself on an Iconic!

    Yes this will benefit returnees who just want to create a quick start character to run Ravenloft with but then you're not actually helping the game because most of those won't stay after they've played Ravenloft or at most got that one character to Lvl 30!

    We've got to get new players to stick around - There's still plenty of new players coming to DDO, The default server gets a HUGE Boost every time the default changes!
    The problem is THEY DON'T STAY! They see the grind required in this game and say "Hell No!"

    And guess what - Existing players ARE going to create new alts!
    And that's the TRAP!
    Start at Lvl 4,7,10 on every single life depending on Vet Status = Fine!
    Just on 1st Life =
    There are two different things going on here. Not one. And they are not mutually exclusive.

    1) How to get people to try the game and stay for 30 days. With a new expansion, you will get people wanting to check it out. You need to provide an easy vehicle for them to do so. Or you lose them before they click buy or in the first few hours of gameplay. This "new player experience" is critical and requires a hook. These people aren't thinking about the E-TR and PL grind. They are thinking about "how do I move?" "how do I attack?" "What is a hot bar?" "Why am I doing less damage against skeletons than ghasts? Why am I constantly missing the wraiths and shadows?" Basic gameplay stuff.

    This is the target for the level 10 starting point. Which makes sense. Otherwise, you are probably missing sales opportunities. Now, your biggest concern is going to be a positive experience for that level 10 new player. Thus, the level 10 starting point needs to be combined with some easy to understand, HIGH QUALITY build advice/pre-sets. Because, honestly, the biggest issue with starting someone at level 10 is that they have to make at least 4 feat selections, spell selections, skill selections, two stat point allocations, and about 40 AP to spend. Before they have ever played the game and know what all these options mean in terms of gameplay. A starter gear set can help with the gear, but the rest of the build is a concern.

    2) Next we have, how do we get someone who is enjoying the game play and questing and UI to become a long term fan of the game and player? This is where the grind, leveling curves, power gap, and challenge levels of N/H/E/R1-10 comes into play. As well as the social aspects of the game. The grouping, the guilds, the community. I agree with you that DDO needs some sort of attention to this new-ish player. The game is daunting at first as you lean gameplay and UI and then becomes fun. Then you realize how much bigger the whole game is and it becomes daunting again. This seems to be where you are focusing. SSG can create systems and new features for this segment (as well as longer term players who are casual and/or alt-oholics) who are finding the gap between population segments to be a limiting factor in their enjoyment. Those systems will probably (and should probably) be different, however, than the ones they create for new players in (1). Because the issues are different and the goals and objectives are different.

    As the new player experience is a continuum, there needs to be features and systems all along that continuum to help them and keep them engaged and entertained. The "start at level 10" feature is for the hour 1 new player. The fact that you think that players later in the continuum also need new features and systems does not invalidate the value of this feature, if you consider the context for which it was intended.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

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