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  1. #21
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    Just to reiterate from the livestream: Favored Soul are getting updates as well, but we didn't talk about that part of it.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  2. #22
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    Think its for the barb raging hybrids with mauls

    free heals while raging unless that was a dif one
    Damonz Cannith

  3. #23

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    I'm normally all for buffs for divines, but in this case, I have to play against type.

    I'm praying to at least three different entire pantheons that this doesn't get anywhere near Live anywhere near as powerful as presented on the livestream. The last thing y'all need is another Darkfire debacle. I'd rather it be brought Live a bit underpowered and then ramped up after the fact, rather than have it come online really powerful and then get snatched away.

    I don't like the whole static bonus by Cleric level thing. Some of the things y'all were talking about, like the DCs and spell pen - they do NOT need to be scaled anywhere near the absurd amounts presented so far. 800 extra HP at cap?! Just no. Please, don't even let them get anywhere near Lamannia that jacked up, much less going live.

    I don't like that the extra spells granted by these domains are going to be granted as SLAs. They should be spells of the appropriate level, period. Make them always memorized like cure spells are now. Divines may need better options for SLAs, but not like this.

    I get that some of the spells normally in some of these domains in tabletop aren't currently in the game, and the last thing y'all probably want to do as part of this pass is code in 10-15-whatever number of new spells. So I'm not going to demand or even ask that a spell gets added for each and every spell level of a Cleric to fill these domains out. However, at least give us some sort of substitute - but make it an added spell - instead of some of the nonspell perks such as the autogranted full martial and exotic proficiencies. If need be, drop a couple of the domains, maybe consolidate a couple others if it'll make the numbers work.

    I'd rather have a house-ruled domain that actually functions as a domain, instead of something called a domain that lacks what makes a domain.

    Finally, the spells you're considering currently adding as SLAs - if they would be an option to be memorized by a vanilla tabletop cleric (EARTHQUAKE), then just add it to the overall list at the appropriate level so Favored Souls can grab it too.
    .: Sarlona - High Lords of Malkier : Reaper Life 1, 2 , 3, and 4 alumnus : My Twitch : Trans and Proud : (she/they please) :.
    .: Inamorata (Heroic x2/Epic Completionist) / Signalmixer (Vorpal Queen) / Darkchylde-1 (Fiend Voodulock) / Tenpercenter (Bowhealer 2020) / Groundloop : Plus so many others! :.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't get the turn animal thing.. destroying undead and even banishing outsiders makes sense... but not animals....never heard of a priest scaring away wildlife...
    St. Patrick driving all the snakes out of Ireland?

  5. #25
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    Wiki page.
    Standing stone has no soul.

  6. #26
    Community Member Paladin_of_Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON
    I don't get the turn animal thing.. destroying undead and even banishing outsiders makes sense... but not animals....never heard of a priest scaring away wildlife...
    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    St. Patrick driving all the snakes out of Ireland?
    He used Delorean to drive them out.

    Followed up with an Irish Car Bomb.

  7. #27
    Community Member Unsinful's Avatar
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    I will say in the past couple months playing the game hasn't been as fun to me but just seeing the cleric news makes me super hyped to revisit one of my favorite classes in ddo and my main class in PnP I'm glad that such a big part of 3.5 Clerics is coming to my favorite game.

  8. #28
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    I don't mind the SLA's because it will be nice to have mana to heal and also have fun things depending on the domain. I do think some of the other things that are granted are pretty silly and will lead to more power creep, which is the last thing DDO needs right now.

    If Clerics become the FoTM in 2 or 3 different domains it will damage the game at this point. Better to have all the domains potentially usable and offering different things to different builds.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramzes7asit4 View Post
    pictures
    +1 Thanks, very helpful to be able to reread thus.

  10. #30
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    you all realize that you only get one domain ...

    thus if you take the hp one (animal) ... you don't get the other bonuses such as DCs and spell pen ...

    if you go DC caster type there are a variety with spell pen (for instakill and CC) and with w/o spell pen for more DPS flavor

    the amount of customization has greatly increased and folks can choose the area they'd like to specialize in ... not every cleric will get 800+hp at cap ... that is only for one domain.

    there is a domain for healing or for melee.

    you turn undead can be more for support or more for turning. Many options to customize.

  11. #31
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    A few comments:

    Turn undead changes: About time these became useful. I like that they deal damage, but it needs to be significant, as charges are limited, especially in heroics.

    Air Domain: I like this. +4 evocation seems a bit much but then clerics are feat-starved. The SLA's fit nicely, although chain lightning SLA on a cleric would definitely make the sorcerers angry.

    Animal Domain: +800 hp is absurd. I'd say make it +1% hp per cleric level for a +20% bonus as a pure. That's fair.

    Chaos Domain: Meh. Chaos hammer is a hit or miss spell, very unusable for most of the game. I understand the chaos/random theme, but it's a little too random.

    Death Domain: I can see this becoming popular with a dark disciple cleric. Turn undead's instakill effect makes them useful vs undead while all the negative energy damage takes care of everything else.

    Destruction Domain: Seems okay, although I see no real reason to take this over the war or strength domains. Also, the 5th and 14th passives are very underwhelming.

    Earth Domain: No. Earthquake belongs to druids. Give clerics access to earthquake and you rid druid spellcasters of their strongest point. I'd say give them an acid rain or black dragon bolt SLA instead. Maybe even meteor swarm or cometfall.

    Fire Domain: Seems solid, to me, other than flamestrike, wall of fire, and firestorm are all fairly underwhelming spells in today's DDO. Also, that turn undead doesn't gain any other benefit other than increased resistance seems odd.

    Good Domain: Underwhelming. I don't understand why blade barrier is in here and the 14th passive is half pointless, as the vast majority of clerics are true neutral. Maybe something like DR/good or your weapons can bypass all alignments.

    Healing Domain: Mostly redundant, but good for healbots in reaper mode, I guess. I'd have expected something like the sacred healing enhancement, like people you heal gain small bonuses like ac or prr or temporary hp.

    Knowledge Domain: Slightly underwhelming, but the 14th passive is quite nice (although focused DC casters will probably take more relevant domains, like death).

    Law Domain: Pretty decent. The 14th passive is very underwhelming. Maybe a hold monster or mass confusion SLA in keeping with the enchantment theme (although I don't understand how enchantment is law-themed).

    Luck Domain: Solid choice. This is balanced and thematically pleasing.

    Magic Domain: Another solid domain. Chain missiles is not a very good spell except in low levels or on the abominable shiradi casters. Perhaps a stacking bonus to spell resistance equal to your cleric level or a large boost to saves vs magic.

    Protection Domain: Solid and typical, but nightshield is underwhelming since every cleric is already going to have shield or nightshield as a spell. How about a free shield mastery feat or free tower shield proficiency.

    Strength Domain: Solid. This would be a good choice for a multiclass cleric with barbarian, paladin, fighter, or monk.

    Sun Domain: A great choice for light cannon clerics. It all seems fine except for searing light: would clerics get access to two searing light SLA's?

    Trickery Domain: Not a fan of charm monster, but I guess this is okay for soloers. Perhaps a mass confusion SLA.

    War Domain: This will probably be the most used domain for multiclass warpriests, hands down.

    Water Domain: I'm confused: was that meant to be light spellpower instead of positive energy?

  12. #32
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    Animal and Knowledge seem out of range for hp and spell pen specifically. Air is debatably too strong with the Chain Lightning SLA. Chain Lightning can be a huge amount of damage when fully meta'd.

  13. #33
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    Animal and Knowledge seem out of range for hp and spell pen specifically. Air is debatably too strong with the Chain Lightning SLA. Chain Lightning can be a huge amount of damage when fully meta'd.
    you only get one of those though ... great you're a meatbag of HPs ... now what ... the rest of cleric is still somewhat weak (depending on what the new changes to enhancement trees are).

    As previously mentioned, without the increased caster levels for chain lightining, its not very good even when meta'd.

  14. #34
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    Default ..... why

    Why are we giving DIVINE casters ARCANE spells? Where's the logic in that? If you do this it'll just show you couldn't think of any cool way to boost them with unique combat moves or spells, but instead are just taking some of the really strong spells and shoving them into a domain.Also *** is with turn UNDEAD working on things other than UNDEAD xD. Stupid idea in my opinion for a revamp.

    Found out that's how it works in PnP. Now I guess I'm just annoyed that its recycled spells and such instead of adding newer spells that clerics would get in PnP.
    Last edited by Nokills; 06-01-2017 at 12:00 AM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nokills View Post
    Why are we giving DIVINE casters ARCANE spells? Where's the logic in that?.
    that's how domains work in pnp.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=HastyPudding;5979165]A few comments:



    Earth Domain: No. Earthquake belongs to druids. Give clerics access to earthquake and you rid druid spellcasters of their strongest point. I'd say give them an acid rain or black dragon bolt SLA instead. Maybe even meteor swarm or cometfall.

    QUOTE]

    PnP- clerics have access to earthquake as an 8th level spell
    (Combat): You are hit by your knockdown.

  17. #37

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    I like a lot of the ability sideways extension. There's a bit too much ability upwards improvement leaving all other classes in the dust for DC's and such. Keep the broad set of choices, curtail down the OP powercreep (unless you're doing a spellcasting/mob save across the board pass at the same time - though an SLA pass across class enh is also welcome)... Good to see some love for Divines.

    You can keep it at 800HP bump if you rename the class ClericLocks.
    Casual DDOaholic

  18. #38
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    Massive props to ramzes7asit4 for the pics.

    I understand these are subject to huge changes but these are my thoughts on what's being presented.

    First, I love the HUGE variety in domains. This is honestly amazing and I love it. And there's a few stand-outs that I think will end up being the most commonly used, but overall I think most of them will be fun and useful.

    --

    I like Turn Undead granting very useful and unique party bonuses. Some of the bonuses are really strong and, even with 20 sec duration, you get a lot of turn undead uses, and many quests don't feature undead so they can be freely used for just the buff. iirc Turn Undead doesn't really have a cooldown, right? I'd make it so that people hit with a Turn Undead buff are immune to being buffed again for like, two minutes, so it can't just be spammed for the entirety of a quest.

    --

    Animal domain could make an interesting alternative to standard, boring ftr/pal tanks, though they'll probably still take a 3 ftr/pal splash for the +20% to HP. My only concern is that you could do a build that can simultaneously tank/cc/heal and be good at all three because let's be real, even without a DC-focused domain clerics can be completely capable CCers, and no one needs anything but a positive spellpower item to have good heals.

    I really want to like this and have it in the game and have cleric tank as a viable option in difficult content. I feel like that huge bonus to HP is what is required to make it work, something like +300 or +400 just doesn't feel like it'd really make an impact. But at the same time, this is essentially adding tons of HP to a class that already has very good healing and very capable CC and insta-killing options. But also... they'd have garbage DPS. And they would give up some DC because they'd use Sentinel. And they'd take another hit because they'd really only be good tanks with a heavy ftr/pal splash. HOWEVER, they could just go lighter on the tankiness, and still be mostly unkillable. Maybe it would be balanced? This is honestly something that has to be play tested, don't change it for the lamma build and let's just see how it goes.

    --

    A lot of domains are kind of weak or boring.
    -Good Domain is trash. Elemental Domains give much more spellpower, Sun gives more spellpower and better SLAs. Blade Barrier SLA isn't really useful except for SP conservation, it's not that interesting because it's already a spell clerics get.
    -Healing Domain is kind of bad. Like, you don't really need anything beyond a positive spellpower stick and pos crit item to be good at healing in DDO. Radiant Servant gives super redundant amounts of positive spellpower, CL increases, crit, etc. but it's still nice because the Aura is useful, Reactive Heal is useful, Positive Energy Burst is useful, etc. I think, to really be worth taking, Healing Domain should have something like those, a new ability that makes healing easier. Maybe, ability to "overheal" (grant X amount of temp HP if healing spell gave far more healing than the amount of HP the target was missing.)
    -Knowlwedge domain is really OP but at the same time it's really boring. The two spells it gives are kind of not useful (but having a way to charm that's not a symbol is nice) and other than that it's just bonuses to DC, skills, spell pen, and INT.
    -Magic Doman is trash, Universal Spell Power isn't really that useful for cleric, if I wanted more light spellpower I'd use an elemental domain, and if I wanted more fire spellpower I'd use Fire, and you never really need more positive spellpower after a point. Chain Missiles is bad unless you're Shiradi build and have a bunch of other multi-hit spells (CLR doesn't.) This only useful for giving USP to everyone else, which isn't terribly useful compared to other Turn Undead buffs.

    --

    Realized this while writing the above. Something you might not have thought of with the "your light spells will use electric/acid/cold/etc. spellpower if it is higher": you are essentially giving clerics a massive +170ish light spellpower cause as it is right now acid/cold/elec/fire can get much higher spellpower due to LGS having huge (+150 stacking with everything) bonuses that's not featured anywhere else (which really looks like a bug but it's been present for a long time.) This is especially the case with Fire cause Cleric already has some bonuses to that element and is probably gonna get more.

    I doubt it will be a balancing issue on its own cause light-based divine DPS is kind of underwhelming anyway, but if your aim is to make CLR and FvS about equal, you might run into an issue if you don't give FvS literally the same ability.

    Also it makes Sun Domain really weak compared to Fire.

    --

    War Domains "one-handed weapons get a damage die of 1d10" might lead to a ridiculously busted Shuriken build.

    --

    I really feel like you are underestimating Cleric's capabilities with some of these domains in regards to DCs; that, or you plan to unnecessarily buff everyone's DCs for no reason. They don't need massive bonuses to DC, you can see the DC breakdowns in my sig which, to my knowledge, are 100% accurate.

    Their DCs are on par with other classes and they actually have the highest Necro DC of any class, and adding +4 on top of that is just asking for serious imbalance issues where Clerics are either landing their necro spells significantly more than other classes, or everyone is landing their spells all of the time and cleric just needs to work a whole lot less to get to the point (seriously: +4 to DCs lets them skip out on completionist, a reaper hat, a +7 tome, and two epic +WIS twists, and still have better DC's than a maxed out Palemaster.)

    Arguably they are balanced due to not having Circle of Death or Wail, but they still have 2x Destructions on different cooldowns, and Slay Living isn't bad either with Extend. And they still get Implosion which will have a similar DC even without focusing on it cause that's just how evocation spells roll. This is on top of having a nuclear option against undead (if I'm understanding it right, it'd be like pre-nerf Wail where there's no cap on how much stuff you can kill at once, AND it has no cooldown.) You also set up a situation where you can't make Mass Frog, you know, function, because you genuinely might make a build that's way too good at instakilling (which reminds me: a good buff to Divine classes would be to fix Mass Frog to use spell pen correctly, and be 20+WIS mod+transmutation bonuses. With this you could tone down some of these changes..)

    -I think the main point is that the Necro DC needs to be toned down.
    -Evocation arguably does but the max DC for that is all over the place for each class, Cleric would be tied for highest DC in that school and normally evocation DC becomes worthless up to a point, and clerics are already past that point (mobs usually either have very low reflex saves or impossibly high saves) but this isn't the case due to implosion. I really don't think these need a +4, either.
    -+4 Enchantment is fine, they really only get Greater Command for this
    -Knowledge domain, +3 all... this is way too strong, I mean the school specific bonuses are just +4, please leave this at just +1.
    -If the TU buff also hit the cleric, then the Law Domain is just flipping over powered. On-demand +5 to all DCs, and sustainable with what I think are the current mechanics.
    -
    Luck giving 1d8 to DC on spellcast is also a bit overtuned, like yeah sometimes it'll only be +1 or +2, but most of the time it'll be a pretty signficant bonus. This is on top of getting Displacement and an automatic raise, which is really strong. I think 1d3 - 1 to DCs is better.

    Ultimately I don't see the need for such huge increases in DC.

    But +10 SPELL PEN LOL WHAT THE HELL please change this to +1 per six levels or something much smaller.

  19. #39
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    Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz
    My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends ...

    Dial it down, please. You can make some worthwhile improvements to divines without cranking the cheese factory into overdrive (again).

    I've never seen a game whose designers are so confused about their attitude to difficulty. Never. It's like you're pulling decisions about how to design your game out of a hat on a daily basis.

    Thanks.

  20. #40
    Community Member Jetrule's Avatar
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    On turning. I think the mechanics change is a good idea with the exception that it should be undead bane damage or light damage not positive healing. There are undead resistant to and immune to healing damage. Also it would just heal critters and elementals. Those spheres need to add animal and verim bane and elemental bane to turning respectively. Sun domain is the right domain for turn enhancement. take the death domains proposed change and move it to sun domain. provide death clerics with a neg level effect versus living or a charm undead instead of hurt undead with their turnings.






    Sphere by sphere:

    Air domain looks solid. It is a significant buff but it makes cleric more competitive especial for imploders, but also in in heroics where from 14-19 that chain lighting bolt sla would see heavy use. As I mentioned above the turn damage versus elementals cannot be healing them.

    Animal domain: Everyone seems so concerned over the 800 hp on a caped pure cleric if it must be toned down do not use a % bonus it favors multi lives more than the flat addition does. I am fine with what is proposed But I would still see it as tempting with +15 per cleric level starting at level 5 and just cleric level not x2 cleric level per epic level. The turn needs to affect animals and vermin.

    Chaos: a less than tempting option comparatively. Consider turns affecting lawful outsiders and +1 alignment spell crit chance per 2 cleric levels.

    Death. Strong strong choice here. I would make the turn undead bonuses go to sun domain and instead this has a chance to neg level the living on a turn.

    Destruction: Weakest combat cleric choice here. I would change the level 14 effect to a on vorpal hit apply a disintegrate spell. With cleric caster level and force power and force crit to determine damage.

    Earth: This is level 1-13 the weakest and at level 14 the strongest of the domains perhaps. The sources of acid damage would be down to the melfs acid arrow dot and dragon born and draconic destiny twists. Whether this is useless, not broken or brokenly overpowered depends on the cool down or perhaps uses per day of the earth quake sla. I would suggest around a 30 second cool down and under no circumstance add it to the cleric spell list.

    Fire: Not attractive enough. Level 14 being delayed blast fire ball would be a improvement.

    Good domain. Blade barrier is interesting especially for heroics. Might I suggest turn also turns evil outsiders? Too much? Also all alignment spheres should require that alignment for the character.

    Healing domain: This is interesting but not compared to other good choices here. Perhaps a ok domain for cleric splashes. level 14 free quickened healing is good but I think level 14 could also add half cleric levels to positive crit chance.

    Knowledge: This seems very strong. If any changes I would suggest cutting the spell penetration bonus in half? Great party buff here for wizards and harpers etc. I like it.

    Law. Should require lawful alignment. strong choice but still would like it to turn chaotic outsiders.

    Luck. Love this as it is.

    Magic: love this as is too.

    Protection: Night shield is lame. either make it a aoe party buff or grant tower shield and or shield mastery

    Strength. I love this. I would add the stunning blow feat to the level 14

    Sun: This is where turn bonuses go.

    Trickery is great as is.

    War: Just say no to holy sword in war domain. That is just too Iconic a paladin ability. Make it +1 threat range of the same type (non stacking) as sylvanus with what ever weapon they equip.

    Water: Swim cleric!! Way to overpowered. Swim clerics need no help they are crazy good as is.
    Last edited by Jetrule; 06-01-2017 at 07:41 AM.
    Percivaul Dusol, BadRandall and Shortpact--The Silver Legion

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