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  1. #1
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Default "Know the Angles" working for extra damage?

    Know the Angles enhancement out of Harper tree is supposed to give 1/2 the intelligence modifier to both damage to dc tactics. When I click on it the dcs show the correct change but my inventory page of showing weapon damage does not increase any. A.) Is this just a textual mistake and I am getting the extra damage too? B.) I am using Handwraps and maybe with the change on them some while back the devs did not update this for them? Are other weapons showing textual/real damage changes?

    Do the Devs know about this regardless if its A or B?

    Perhaps this has already been addressed but I do not see it in the forums.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Community Member Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    Know the Angles enhancement out of Harper tree is supposed to give 1/2 the intelligence modifier to both damage to dc tactics. When I click on it the dcs show the correct change but my inventory page of showing weapon damage does not increase any. A.) Is this just a textual mistake and I am getting the extra damage too? B.) I am using Handwraps and maybe with the change on them some while back the devs did not update this for them? Are other weapons showing textual/real damage changes?

    Do the Devs know about this regardless if its A or B?

    Perhaps this has already been addressed but I do not see it in the forums.

    Thanks!
    KtA provides an insight bonus to damage and dcs. Are you wearing an item that gives insightful deadly and/ or insightful combat mastery?
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  3. #3
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    Know the Angles enhancement out of Harper tree is supposed to give 1/2 the intelligence modifier to both damage to dc tactics. When I click on it the dcs show the correct change but my inventory page of showing weapon damage does not increase any. A.) Is this just a textual mistake and I am getting the extra damage too? B.) I am using Handwraps and maybe with the change on them some while back the devs did not update this for them? Are other weapons showing textual/real damage changes?

    Do the Devs know about this regardless if its A or B?

    Perhaps this has already been addressed but I do not see it in the forums.

    Thanks!
    A1) My guess it is a display error. There are a few things in the game that this happens on which is why i don't look at my Inventory Page weapon output. Usually displays (but not always) on your weapon itself.

    The other option is to check on a ship dummy.

    A2) Make sure your Insightful Deadly Item (if any) is lower than your KtA bonus as Renvar mentions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

  4. #4
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    Know the Angles enhancement out of Harper tree is supposed to give 1/2 the intelligence modifier to both damage to dc tactics. When I click on it the dcs show the correct change but my inventory page of showing weapon damage does not increase any. A.) Is this just a textual mistake and I am getting the extra damage too? B.) I am using Handwraps and maybe with the change on them some while back the devs did not update this for them? Are other weapons showing textual/real damage changes?

    Do the Devs know about this regardless if its A or B?

    Perhaps this has already been addressed but I do not see it in the forums.

    Thanks!
    KTA has never displayed it's damage on the weapon.
    People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

  5. #5
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
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    Is insightful Deadly +7 the highest you can get?

    Trying to figure out how worth it KtA is for my spell casting artificer as backup damage.

    I figure int is probably going to hit 50 or so, which is +10 damage from Kta.

    If insightful deadly can give 7 in a pinch...then I'm only losing 3 damage by not getting it (and it's up all the time when I switch to that item for crossbow use).

    I know it's probably easy to get higher int then this, but it'll be a second life char, with only a +5 tome, and not many spare AP (also not a gnome).

    Figure 18 base +7 levels + 15 enhance + 7 insight + 2 ship = 49 + a few other points from enhancements/exceptional etc. So somewhere around 50.

  6. #6
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy42 View Post
    Figure 18 base +7 levels + 15 enhance + 7 insight + 2 ship = 49 + a few other points from enhancements/exceptional etc. So somewhere around 50.
    With lvl 29 gear you should be able to reach around 70 with ease.

  7. #7
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragavon View Post
    With lvl 29 gear you should be able to reach around 70 with ease.
    Hmmm...70 I might have to juggle things around at that point and get know the angles then, thats a significant damage increase.

    Although I would already be getting my int bonus to damage, still if I can just figure a way to cut/eek out 5 more AP somehow, I could get know the angles as well. In the long run I could do it easy by getting racial AP from reincarnating but that is WAAY down the road and I doubt i'll ever get there.

    For now...I pretty much will have to live without it, was just hoping I could laugh it off as just 3 extra damage or something.

    I guess it's still only 8 damage difference though (+7 to +15), and that is with already getting +30 from int bonus, a large bonus from the actual weapon, normal deadly bonus etc. I can live without it..and it would only be that high of a difference at end game anyway.

    I'll have Hellball, Ruin and Greater Ruin by then to deal with lightning immunes...so I think I'm good without KTA.

  8. #8
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    KTA stacks with insightful deadly.
    Renowned: Morkass, Ethiene, Eldried, Tenedoss, Tergos, Fergoss, Terendel

  9. #9
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldried View Post
    KTA stacks with insightful deadly.
    But to be clear it is not showing in text about the increased weapon damage from Know the Angles -- i even took off my insight deadly trinket and put on KTA but it showed no damage increase on the text. And technically my insight bonus from intel (1/2 modifier) is still higher than the item with insight damage -- but while it registers damage off the trinket there is no shown increased value when using KTA.

    And if it actually stacked with KTA that would be a surprise -- but how can anyone tell if it is not showing in the text at all? How are you determining the extra damage is happening? Off of the training dummy?

  10. #10
    Community Member Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldried View Post
    KTA stacks with insightful deadly.
    Both give an insightful bonus to damage. Bonuses of the same type do not stack, usually. This would also be consistent with Divine Might (the original version of this kind of feature) which gives an insightful bonus to strength based on Charisma modifier. Which also does not stack with insightful strength items. (And effectively gives a bonus of 1/2 your cha modifier to hit, damage, and tactics DC's based on Strength).

    Further, I have not seen proof of this in any testing I've done. I respectfully disagree.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    KtA provides an insight bonus to damage and dcs. Are you wearing an item that gives insightful deadly and/ or insightful combat mastery?
    KTA ABSOLUTELY stacks with this.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Further, I have not seen proof of this in any testing I've done. I respectfully disagree.
    Don't listen to this guy

    It absolutely stacks.

  13. #13
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    I tested the increase like this:

    unequip all your items, and only use int items.
    Dont use a good destiny.
    reset all enhancements.
    Use the worst weapon you can find.
    You want the numbers to be as small as possible to see the difference easier.

    I tested the damage I did on the training dummy with ins. deadly on and without, with Kta and with both on.
    You have to be careful to take into account that you do more damage when you have killed the training dummy.

    I shot the dummy until I got a damage range with each of the mentioned effects on and Im 100% it stacks.


    You only see it in the numbers you do.

    Wording wise I can only explain it like this: KTA gives an insight bonus to DAMAGE and insightful deadly gives an insightful bonus to WEAPON DAMAGE.

    I guess there is a difference in that.

    About the specifics you have to ask SSG.
    Renowned: Morkass, Ethiene, Eldried, Tenedoss, Tergos, Fergoss, Terendel

  14. #14
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Both give an insightful bonus to damage. Bonuses of the same type do not stack, usually. This would also be consistent with Divine Might (the original version of this kind of feature) which gives an insightful bonus to strength based on Charisma modifier. Which also does not stack with insightful strength items. (And effectively gives a bonus of 1/2 your cha modifier to hit, damage, and tactics DC's based on Strength).

    Further, I have not seen proof of this in any testing I've done. I respectfully disagree.
    then your testing is flawed. i run a monk with kta the stupid ring that shouldnt exist and took me far too long to farm that gives ins deadly. empirically its a marked increase in quests.

    i use it when i test on bruntsmash - it is a noticible decrease in time to kill him.

  15. #15
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Unhappy display issue

    As far as I know, Known the angles stacks with insightful deadly the same as the insightful Difficulty Check also stacks with insightful Combat Mastery and even more, it also gives more DC for your Quivering Palm.
    But it is quite inconsistent that it stacks because both bonuses are named insightful and same bonuses should not stack
    And it is also quite strange that the damage is not displayed which shows a quite inconsistent system in the display.
    There several such errors like the critical thread range that is not displayed when you examine the weapon while the critical multiplier is not displayed in the inventory.
    It looks like there is a lot to do for the development because it was wrongly done at the implementation.

  16. #16
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    Can confirm it stacks. Its a display issue. Also of note that the bonus to damage is calculated by your int at the time of casting the buff - this means that ideally you have a gear swap (especially if you are using 3 ranks vs 2 ranks).
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  17. #17
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    I know I tested awhile ago. Over a year+ and they did not stack. I will have to test it once again now that the community is saying it does stack. Guess my Mimmick Farmer has another use. Now to remember to test and return back here
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

  18. #18
    Community Member Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morroiel View Post
    Can confirm it stacks. Its a display issue. Also of note that the bonus to damage is calculated by your int at the time of casting the buff - this means that ideally you have a gear swap (especially if you are using 3 ranks vs 2 ranks).
    It has been years since I tested it. I’ll respec the ap on a bank mule and test it again. I’m surprised that this might have changed. there was testing and discussion in forum threads about it back then.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  19. #19
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    As far as I know, Known the angles stacks with insightful deadly the same as the insightful Difficulty Check also stacks with insightful Combat Mastery and even more, it also gives more DC for your Quivering Palm.
    But it is quite inconsistent that it stacks because both bonuses are named insightful and same bonuses should not stack
    And it is also quite strange that the damage is not displayed which shows a quite inconsistent system in the display.
    There several such errors like the critical thread range that is not displayed when you examine the weapon while the critical multiplier is not displayed in the inventory.
    It looks like there is a lot to do for the development because it was wrongly done at the implementation.
    Thanks to all for excellent discussion since there appears considerable confusion since the text is not showing on damage and apparent disconnect of two "insights" stacking. I also see a stacking with some minimal testing on the dummy.

    New question though: If my intelligence modifier is an odd number (and you get 1/2 modifier) does it round down or up? In other words if my modifier is +11 (5 and 1/2 divided) do I get +5 or +6 added to the dcs and damage?

  20. #20
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    Thanks to all for excellent discussion since there appears considerable confusion since the text is not showing on damage and apparent disconnect of two "insights" stacking. I also see a stacking with some minimal testing on the dummy.

    New question though: If my intelligence modifier is an odd number (and you get 1/2 modifier) does it round down or up? In other words if my modifier is +11 (5 and 1/2 divided) do I get +5 or +6 added to the dcs and damage?
    It rounds down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

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