How are you supposed to survive SSG?

[AbyssalMage]

I already noticed the power creep with the new quests. NPC's are hitting like "Mack Trucks." How do you purpose players survive content "at level" when you do this? I'm sure I can come back in 8 levels and "mop the floors" with them but when I am inside the level range and get "2 shotted" frequently, How!?!?!?

This isn't about gear, it wouldn't make a difference when NPC's are taking me out in 2x hits (Increasing my AC, PRR, and HP's @21, I am almost max for my class/build; i.e. within 10% for all relevant). My ED isn't "the best" possible (closer to #3 best, which is why my HP's are not max possible) but quit pigeonholing me into "the best" just so I can run content.

I'll leave on a "positive" though, thank you for not inflating their HP's too.

[redoubt]

I ran the prison one on my level 30 assassin.

There were several fights that were tough. I was frequently hit for 300+ a hit, that is after 170prr (So roughly, 900-1000 pts on a hit that is not a crit before damage reduction is accounted for.) That one is a level 25, so 27 on elite.

I also ran it on HE on a level 8 warlock. Staying at range was a must. I don't recall offhand what I was getting hit for on this one.

[AbyssalMage]

So just to be thorough, I dropped the quest from EE to EH (to prevent feeding "The Trolls") and discovered this...

I went from taking low 200's to high 400's from champs/orange/red named to...
25 to 50 damage with 100 damage once, in EH! The Traps were more deadly. The only time I was actually in danger of dying was during the final fight when my random heals didn't go off (Barbarian if you hadn't guessed). Just horrible game design.

Oh, my "positive" before I leave: I am totally liking the "layout/theme" of the new quests. Only done a 3 of 5 (I have WMP and the one which drops armor, I assume, to go) but DM narration and skins/NPC's have been awesome. Some of the text the NPC's are saying is flavorful too. Been awhile since I even bothered reading what they say yet I am finding myself reading most/majority of it. Kudos!

[Cantor]

So just to be thorough, I dropped the quest from EE to EH (to prevent feeding "The Trolls") and discovered this...

I went from taking low 200's to high 400's from champs/orange/red named to...
25 to 50 damage with 100 damage once, in EH! The Traps were more deadly. The only time I was actually in danger of dying was during the final fight when my random heals didn't go off (Barbarian if you hadn't guessed). Just horrible game design.

Oh, my "positive" before I leave: I am totally liking the "layout/theme" of the new quests. Only done a 3 of 5 (I have WMP and the one which drops armor, I assume, to go) but DM narration and skins/NPC's have been awesome. Some of the text the NPC's are saying is flavorful too. Been awhile since I even bothered reading what they say yet I am finding myself reading most/majority of it. Kudos!

They are great lots of new mechanics and good story. I found wpm the most linear and boring of the bunch.

[btolson]

I really wish they would give mobs Control abilities instead of pushing their dps/hp off the charts to try and make them dangerous.

Every melee mob in the game should have trip. Many should have stunning blow.

All melee mobs should have some sort of fast movement ability, such as charge or something like the shadar-kai leap.

Some mobs, especially casters, should have a "get over here!" ability. Rope/chain lassos for physical mobs, Bigby's Hands for casters.

Maybe even implement Wall/Cage of Force, to break LOS or trap players in steelcage deathmatches.


This would makes mobs much, much more threatening. Kiting would become very difficult, maybe even impossible. You'd routinely have melee mobs in your back lines, and your squishies/healers dragged into their back lines. This would be much more challenging to overcome than inflated paper stats and involve a lot of tactical thinking. Overall, encounters would be much less predictable. I wish they had focused on things like this instead of creating reaper.

[HastyPudding]

I really wish they would give mobs Control abilities instead of pushing their dps/hp off the charts to try and make them dangerous.

Every melee mob in the game should have trip. Many should have stunning blow.

No. There's several abilities in the game that have knockdown immunity or immunity to stuns/paralysis, petrification, freedom of movement, etc. This would just force players to take those enhancements or destinies to not get hit by these effects. Forcing players to multiclass or play in off-destinies to avoid such things is not a good idea.

[btolson]

No. There's several abilities in the game that have knockdown immunity or immunity to stuns/paralysis, petrification, freedom of movement, etc. This would just force players to take those enhancements or destinies to not get hit by these effects. Forcing players to multiclass or play in off-destinies to avoid such things is not a good idea.

This sounds like you are advocating for saving throws to be removed from the game.

[CSQ]

My experience on heroic was not that bad. I died a few times, but I've been running as a level 5/6/7 druid, and my survival rates drastically improved with each level and as I pulled/bought/unarchived loot at each level. Heroic Elite hasn't been much of a problem, except for the Inevitables having rather significant health regeneration for level 8 enemies- with a solid 30+ damage a hit and wolf attack speed increase, there were times when it felt like I was chipping away at a wall until my abilities came off cooldown and I could +(W) them, especially Inevitability. Perhaps if that were toned down 20-50% that would make it better for that one particular type of enemy in heroic. Even with a meager 37 AC I didn't have much problem in most of the quests. I had to keep up fire resist as much as possible in The Price of Freedom, and I brought two healers (gold seal Elieri from the Catacombs pack and another hireling depending on level), and although I had a few deaths on my first run of each quest (some at level 5, some at level 6) and one unlucky death at level 7 (pulled too big on accident, got champed to death) I didn't have too much to worry about. With 41 AC and 200+ HP at level 7 as long as I have a healer hireling it's easy to solo them, but I can see how it could be close on a less powerful build. Still, compared to some of the more recent content like Tethyamar, which was like pulling nails on elite, this is pretty close to what I would say is a good amount of difficulty, if perhaps a bit spiky on the damage of certain enemies (the griffins in Another Man's Treasure were significantly more deadly than the rest of the quest, for example, and their attacks kept hitting my dog/hires even when they were behind the griffin as well for some reason). Overall, I would give the heroic difficulty a B-, because there are some spots where things are kind of gimmicky in terms of sudden spikes of damage and especially the Inevitables in Elite who stack on two different status effects, do some serious damage, and regenerate way too quickly given the headaches they can cause. However, none of this makes the quests impossible, and even below level I enjoyed the challenge and when I died it was either because of derpy hirelings, bad healing on my part, or stupid pulling most of the time, not quest design. There was one spot in Memory Lapse where about 12-15 enemies aggro'ed all at once, and that was a spot I died in and felt cheated, but the rest of my deaths were, if annoying because I died, relatively "fair" deaths, so considering that I'm below level still that's fine by me. Honestly, even if just the Inevitables lost their regeneration effect, I would bump the rating up to an A- from that alone, because those are just annoying. They don't resist crowd control effects, so it's basically just don't botch your trip check and things will be good, which is a bit cheesy feeling, but the fact that they can blind and stun while regenerating can make fighting them annoying with poor saves- even with my past life Brace and guild buffs, I had a hard time on my first go, so a newbie without those would have a pretty rough time.

[J-mann]

So just to be thorough, I dropped the quest from EE to EH (to prevent feeding "The Trolls") and discovered this...

I went from taking low 200's to high 400's from champs/orange/red named to...
25 to 50 damage with 100 damage once, in EH! The Traps were more deadly. The only time I was actually in danger of dying was during the final fight when my random heals didn't go off (Barbarian if you hadn't guessed). Just horrible game design.

Oh, my "positive" before I leave: I am totally liking the "layout/theme" of the new quests. Only done a 3 of 5 (I have WMP and the one which drops armor, I assume, to go) but DM narration and skins/NPC's have been awesome. Some of the text the NPC's are saying is flavorful too. Been awhile since I even bothered reading what they say yet I am finding myself reading most/majority of it. Kudos!

Yes, some of the mobs in the new quests are waaaaaayyyy overtuned. They feel like mobs that should be in level 30 quests not 21 or 23. Funnily its not all of them, for example in Kinda a big deal the kobolds seemed to be fine, but the wolves were hitting for 290+ against 150 prr on r1 which is crazy as you dont see those kind of numbers outside of champs until level 30+ quests. The most overtuned mobs that I fought were the manticores, who had not only pretty hefty damage (about 190/200 a swing against 150prr) but were also all red named and had insanely high attack speed. Fights with a manti were kite fests on my druid, get in deal damage until half health jump out and kite and heal until I can jump in again.

[PsychoBlonde]

Considering that the past few packs have had similarly "overtuned" mobs in packs of FIFTEEN instead of THREE, I'll take it.

Did it on Heroic and Epic Reaper/elite and destroyed it. I like the difficulty pretty well.

The shadows in the prison hit HARD, but they aren't durable.

[Trig_of_Cowtown]

Considering that the past few packs have had similarly "overtuned" mobs in packs of FIFTEEN instead of THREE, I'll take it.

Did it on Heroic and Epic Reaper/elite and destroyed it. I like the difficulty pretty well.

The shadows in the prison hit HARD, but they aren't durable.

Bravo, Fearless Leader! I look forward to taking it on someday. White Plume Mountain is one of my favorite old time modules.

[Bacab]

I agree. I did Epic Memory Lapse at level and I was running with some really good players.

We did Reaper 1...and it was super hard. We won, but it seemed way harder than most quests in that range.

I do think SSG will listen to the population and make some tweaks.

[AbyssalMage]

I agree. I did Epic Memory Lapse at level and I was running with some really good players.

We did Reaper 1...and it was super hard. We won, but it seemed way harder than most quests in that range.

I do think SSG will listen to the population and make some tweaks.

I hope so. It really just need "some tweaks" and not a rework. This is the first update in awhile that I am excited about (loot not so much) but I am super fine with that. XP and "Fun Factor" seem perfect (to me). Hopefully in the next patch(es) it will be addressed.

[scut207]

I did the level 21 EE "Kind of a Big Deal" as a 1st life lvl 26 barb in mixed blues and lootgen with full group of decent players. Ran into the pack of wolves after the gate and was erased from existence faster than I could get a cleave off. We did ultimately finish it, but those wolves were hitting like trucks.

[SpartanKiller13]

I liked the difficulty for both Heroic and Epic - I ran on Elite, ~16 Heroic runs and ~4 Epic runs. 6 of the Heroic runs were 1 level over, the rest were way overlevel.

Stuff was tough enough to be threatening, but not terrible; with a little tactics/strategy it's pretty easy. Group numbers were mostly reasonable as well. All in all I'd say it's one of the more balanced quest chains in a while.

[Retired_Old_Gamer]

I like the difficulty .

[SerPounce]

The Heroic versions seem about in line with the last year of content. About the same as mines, a little tougher than ravenloft. I did the platinum one and the book one solo on a sorc at lvl 6 on r1. The platinum one was fine. The books one was tough, but I think that had a lot to do with being primarily fire speced with all the devils/demons. I still managed to finish it but it was an ugly slog.

We don't have a lot of recent quest to compare with for low/mid epics. Everything else lately has been heroic/legendary. I haven't run them "at level" but the fights on r1 were easy enough on my lvl30 artificer solo.

Cool quests though. I ran out of time on the prison one though trying to do the light puzzle in the lower cells Haven't gotten it up to go back and try again.

[sephiroth1084]

Monster saves in the epic elite versions of the quests seemed significantly higher than in other quests that level (or beyond). I was playing on my Assassin rogue who can reliably assassinate most non-brute-types into Slave Lords, with a little difficulty in Ravenloft (all elite or R1), but in these I was hardly able to kill anything?.

[Fivetigers33]

How do you purpose players survive content "at level" when you do this?

Crowd Control?

[J-mann]

I dont think the kobold casters in kind of a big deal are working as intended in heroics. They were casting 300ish damage fire arrows as non champs on me this weekend. Kind of crazy.