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  1. #1
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Default Class speculation

    This is only a theory of mine, but...

    - We're expecting a new class later this year and the devs have been tight-lipped about it.

    - Pale Master is expected to be updated later this year, as well.

    - What if Pale Master was taken from the wizard class and placed into a new Dread Necromancer class or make it a class of its own? If it was its own class, you could split it into wraith (movement abilities, incorporeal effects, etc), vampire (enchantments, melee support, life stealing), and lich (straightforward necromancy DC's and skeleton pet) enhancement trees.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    My prediction is that the new class is going to have something to do with Psionics.
    Likewise, I think that the new Racial Varient will be Kalashtar - and the two will be introduced hand in hand.
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  3. #3
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    My prediction is that the new class is going to have something to do with Psionics.
    Likewise, I think that the new Racial Varient will be Kalashtar - and the two will be introduced hand in hand.
    Highly doubtful. Severlin said in an interview that psionics would be a major undertaking and if/when they were going to do it it would be an update all to itself and they'd release two psionic classes. It's my hope that the next expansion would release the Kalashtar race along with the Psion and Psychic Warrior classes, and maybe take us to the continent of Sarlona to stop a quori invasion.

    Also, Kalashtar is not a racial variant, it's a race. A variant would be like wood elf (which we got) or duergar (which I think we're going to get).

    But, if it's not psionics, my guess is the next class would be Hexblade or Dread Necromancer.
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  4. #4
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    Its not psionics, they made that very clear in an interview with a fansite.

    I think its going to be a Brawler class because unarmed is currently the most underserved fighting style. A Negative-based casting class isnt a bad guess either since that's also currently underserved, but I think the PM overhaul will cover that gap without needing to make it a whole standalone class of its own. Besides, then what would Wizard get to replace it anyway?

    Racial variant will be Duergar, leading up to a Duergar Battlerager Iconic Barbarian

  5. #5
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Its not psionics, they made that very clear in an interview with a fansite.

    I think its going to be a Brawler class because unarmed is currently the most underserved fighting style. A Negative-based casting class isnt a bad guess either since that's also currently underserved, but I think the PM overhaul will cover that gap without needing to make it a whole standalone class of its own. Besides, then what would Wizard get to replace it anyway?

    Racial variant will be Duergar, leading up to a Duergar Battlerager Iconic Barbarian
    I don't feel like Brawler is going to add anything new.
    Primary Home: Argonnessen
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    "Elder brains are a lot like bouncy castles. They just sit there, but if you jump up and down on them, things get interesting real quick." ~FlimsyFirewood

  6. #6
    Community Member gnarledmaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    What if Pale Master was taken from the wizard class and placed into a new Dread Necromancer class or make it a class of its own?
    This is one thing Ive never liked about the DnD world is that there is no true necromancer, the way necromancy is split between clerics and wizards means you can pretend to be one but never have true necromancer type power.

    There was a class called the Deathmaster in one of the early Dragon magazines. I would really like to see something like that again recognized as official. We added it to our games and anyone wanting to really play a necromancer played that.

  7. #7
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    Yep, we've all but totally ruled out psionic classes.

    So we're still left with an extensive list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_3.5_editions

    Archivist
    Beguiler
    Crusader
    Dragon Shaman
    Dragonfire Adept
    Dread Necromancer
    Duskblade
    Factotum
    Hexblade
    Incarnum
    Marshal
    Ninja
    Samurai
    Scout
    Shaman
    Shadowcaster
    Shugenja
    Sohei
    Soulborn
    Spellthief
    Spirit Shaman
    Swordsage
    Totemist
    Truenamer
    Warblade
    Warmage
    Wu Jen

    We can probably eliminate Tome of Battle classes as well as Magic of Incarnum classes. Both are similar to psionics in that they bring new systems with them. Tome of Battle was made to update Fighter, Monk, and Paladin and DDO has already done that. As much as I love Crusader, Swordsage and Warblade, they probably aren't needed. Magic of Incarnum is great too, but probably too much work. If you do it, you'd want to bring in all three classes similar to what you'd do with psionics.

    So Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Totemist, Soulborn, and Incarnum are all out most likely. I also think we can eliminate Oriental Adventures classes because of a hunch.

    This leaves us with this list. We can probably further POE this list and your guess is as good as mine probably.

    Archivist
    Beguiler
    Dragon Shaman
    Dragonfire Adept
    Dread Necromancer
    Duskblade
    Factotum
    Hexblade
    Marshal
    Ninja (complete adventurer)
    Samurai (complete warrior)
    Scout
    Shaman
    Shadowcaster
    Spellthief
    Spirit Shaman
    Truenamer
    Warmage

    This is my list for reasons:

    Archivist (pls god pls)
    Beguiler
    Dragon Shaman
    Duskblade
    Factotum
    Hexblade
    Marshal (or Warlord this is another great idea for this game)
    Scout
    Shaman
    Spirit Shaman

    I root for Archivist the most, but Marshal/Warlord as a different force multiplier class would be cool.
    Last edited by GramercyRiff; 03-09-2019 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Oh, I know I'm 99.9% not right with my prediction. And I'm perfectly okay with that.
    I really don't like either Psionics or Kalashtar, and nearly anything else will make me happier than if my prediction comes to pass. Which is why I'm sticking by my prediction.
    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    I don't feel like Brawler is going to add anything new.
    It'd be another Martial class that could use Unarmed gear. Give Monks something to multi with, and something other than Shintao to spend their AP on to specialize in unarmed fighting.

    One Brawler tree would specialize in Unarmed, one in Clubs and Greatclubs, essentially follow the framework of VKF and Inqui to boost those weapon classes. Third tree is defense, maybe designed around PRR and AC rather than Dodge to facilitate a tankier "takes the hit" defense as opposed to Monks "dodge the hit" style. Maybe a static +% chance for Grazing Hits, that'd be a new way to approach defense and a unique mechanic for Brawlers.

    It would have a lot of synergy with monks, fighters, druids. It'd be useful for a defensive splash similar to fighter splashes for Stal Def. It'd open up different weapon build options for other classes like Barb.

  10. #10
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GramercyRiff View Post
    This is my list for reasons:

    Archivist (pls god pls)
    Beguiler
    Dragon Shaman
    Duskblade
    Factotum
    Hexblade
    Marshal (or Warlord this is another great idea for this game)
    Scout
    Shaman
    Spirit Shaman

    I root for Archivist the most, but Marshal/Warlord as a different force mulitplier class would be cool.
    Factotum/Archivist - While I think we need another intelligence-based class (the only ones we really have are wizard and artificer, and occasionally rogue) we don't really have much use for a skill-based class (factotum) or a weird divine/arcane hybrid magic class (archivist). I could see the factotum inspirations being a thing, like short bursts of OMG***OVERPOWERED-ness, but I'm have a hard time envisioning a class that only has about a 20% window of being useful throughout a quest.

    Shaman/Dragon Shaman/Spirit Shaman - I don't see us getting the shaman class (although it would be interesting). I feel shaman would make for a better druid enhancement tree than a class to itself. I feel shaman could be so easily exploitable in DDO due to, basically, only needing constitution as a stat. It's too easy to be abused.

    Beguiler - This class would add absolutely nothing new to DDO. We have enchantment wizards, spellsinger bards, and scholar warlocks, already. You would need a ton of work to get this class to bring anything new to the table.

    Duskblade - I feel this is too close to eldritch knight, for my tastes. This is basically an arcane paladin and we sort of already have an arcane/melee hybrid with bards.

    Scout - This isn't something we really need in DDO. There's no real need for scouting ahead in today's gameplay and the ranger and rogue classes already bring to the table what this class is meant to do.

    Marshal/Warlord - I could kind of see this working, but I see it more as an independent enhancement tree or a 4th enhancement tree for fighters.

    Hexblade - This class makes the most sense, to me. It offers melee potential with some small degree of magical ability (like paladins, duskblades, and some bards), but it offers something DDO lacks: a heavy debuffer. Warlock touches on debuffing with the souleater tree, but not to any degree I would consider impactful (which I feel is a major loss to the class, seeing as its primary role in PnP was being an exceptional debuffer). I could see the hexblade's curse being a powerful boss/champion debuffer and the player could interact with enemies based on whether or not their curse is applied. This class could be what the warlock's melee capabilities was supposed to be.
    Last edited by HastyPudding; 03-09-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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  11. #11
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Kobolds Cannoneers

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    Factotum/Archivist - While I think we need another intelligence-based class (the only ones we really have are wizard and artificer, and occasionally rogue) we don't really have much use for a skill-based class (factotum) or a weird divine/arcane hybrid magic class (archivist). I could see the factotum inspirations being a thing, like short bursts of OMG***OVERPOWERED-ness, but I'm have a hard time envisioning a class that only has about a 20% window of being useful throughout a quest.
    Eh I could see a way Factotum could be implemented that would fit the mechanics of DDO and make them both useful and unique...

    Something like slottable SLAs, like Wizard spellbooks but SLAs, from a wide variety of arcane/primal/divine spells. Maybe Factotum get -25% spellpower and they're only considered 1st level spells for DC purposes, though, to represent their non-mastery. They'd have significantly fewer spell points than any other casting class, to represent their limited uses in PnP, and also to make Wizardry and SP enhancements more meaningful. Like maybe on the order of 15 SP/level, so you could only cast a very few SLAs without further investment.

    Then one of their enhancement trees is Inspiration, based around a bunch of powerful Action Boost-style buffs (but unlimited charge) that all share a cooldown, with the cores perhaps being Stance-style buffs that all likewise share one channel, kinda like AA imbues. So you could flip your focus towards Skills when you're trapping, or Damage when you're fighting, or Group Buffs when you're grouping, or Healing, etc. with both passive and active buff lines to invest in for each.

    Other trees would be a Martial tree and a Caster tree, logically, that would give generic bonuses and focus on using a wide variety of options rather than specializing in one. Martial maybe gives non-stacking Enhancement substitutes for fighting, similar to how Paladin gets Enhancement substitutes for Cleave (you'd need to actually take SWF/ISWF/GSWF to qualify, then could activate a Stance to let you fight in THF or TWF or S&B instead). That'd also mean Factotums dont have to worry about stat reqs for fighting style feats either, but doesnt just autogrant them all the feats they need like Ranger does. Same deal, maybe they get a T5 enhancement that gives them IC:Everything as long as they have one IC feat actually taken.

    Caster, same idea. Lots of generic USP, +SP, crit. Maybe bonuses based on how much Potency you slot, since that's currently an underserved affix but fits right into the Factotum ethos. Maybe a Stance mechanic with a buff that stacks when you use different Schools or Realms of magic (primal/arcane/divine), similar to EK's casting/attacking stacks. Mix in some enhancements poached from other caster trees like Savant vulnerability or Beacon of Hope clickies.

    Maybe one Magical bonus feat at some level (ie Wizard bonus feats), and one Martial bonus feat at another level (ie Fighter bonus feats). You can choose which one first, and then you get the other later, like Wild Forms.

    That'd make the class powerful, but only when played well and played tactically. You would have to know how to balance and time your Inspiration for maximum effect, and how to set up your SLAs to do what you need. And it would fill that "red mage" archetype people occasionally ask for.

  13. #13
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Eh I could see a way Factotum could be implemented that would fit the mechanics of DDO and make them both useful and unique...

    Something like slottable SLAs, like Wizard spellbooks but SLAs, from a wide variety of arcane/primal/divine spells. Maybe Factotum get -25% spellpower and they're only considered 1st level spells for DC purposes, though, to represent their non-mastery. They'd have significantly fewer spell points than any other casting class, to represent their limited uses in PnP, and also to make Wizardry and SP enhancements more meaningful. Like maybe on the order of 15 SP/level, so you could only cast a very few SLAs without further investment.

    Then one of their enhancement trees is Inspiration, based around a bunch of powerful Action Boost-style buffs (but unlimited charge) that all share a cooldown, with the cores perhaps being Stance-style buffs that all likewise share one channel, kinda like AA imbues. So you could flip your focus towards Skills when you're trapping, or Damage when you're fighting, or Group Buffs when you're grouping, or Healing, etc. with both passive and active buff lines to invest in for each.

    Other trees would be a Martial tree and a Caster tree, logically, that would give generic bonuses and focus on using a wide variety of options rather than specializing in one. Martial maybe gives non-stacking Enhancement substitutes for fighting, similar to how Paladin gets Enhancement substitutes for Cleave (you'd need to actually take SWF/ISWF/GSWF to qualify, then could activate a Stance to let you fight in THF or TWF or S&B instead). That'd also mean Factotums dont have to worry about stat reqs for fighting style feats either, but doesnt just autogrant them all the feats they need like Ranger does. Same deal, maybe they get a T5 enhancement that gives them IC:Everything as long as they have one IC feat actually taken.

    Caster, same idea. Lots of generic USP, +SP, crit. Maybe bonuses based on how much Potency you slot, since that's currently an underserved affix but fits right into the Factotum ethos. Maybe a Stance mechanic with a buff that stacks when you use different Schools or Realms of magic (primal/arcane/divine), similar to EK's casting/attacking stacks. Mix in some enhancements poached from other caster trees like Savant vulnerability or Beacon of Hope clickies.

    Maybe one Magical bonus feat at some level (ie Wizard bonus feats), and one Martial bonus feat at another level (ie Fighter bonus feats). You can choose which one first, and then you get the other later, like Wild Forms.

    That'd make the class powerful, but only when played well and played tactically. You would have to know how to balance and time your Inspiration for maximum effect, and how to set up your SLAs to do what you need. And it would fill that "red mage" archetype people occasionally ask for.
    The main issue of Factotum is its weaknesses are very, very severe. It's a jack-of-all-trades without any sort of hard specialization whatsoever outside of tiny, brief moments of inspiration. Even bards and artificers in DDO have specialties. I'm finding it to be very difficult to imagine three factotum enhancement trees. I mean, you could split it into spellcasting/combat/skills but that requires specialization, which is anathema to what the factotum represents. Factotum would eternally be a middle-of-the-road, lackluster class that could easily be replaced by our current sixth-party-member, the bard or artificer.

    Classes like hexblade, shaman, or dread necromancer would have far more interesting ways of being implemented, and either bring something new to the table or take something that is already in DDO and make it shine like no other.
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  14. #14
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    I am guessing one of the following, which none are on your list since it is 3.5e:

    Invoker
    Seeker

    And I do not think they ruled out psions. They just said it would need to be multiple class additions to make it work. So it’s possible they intend to introduce the first of 2 or 3 Psion INC classes as well.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    I am guessing one of the following, which none are on your list since it is 3.5e:

    Invoker
    Seeker

    And I do not think they ruled out psions. They just said it would need to be multiple class additions to make it work. So it’s possible they intend to introduce the first of 2 or 3 Psion INC classes as well.
    Are those 5E classes? What do they do?

    5E is definitely a possibility, but I don't know anything about it.

    Actually 5E seems likely hmmm.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Blackguard.
    No fun, no $$$

  17. #17
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballrus View Post
    Blackguard.
    I could see blackguard working. Blackguard has some darker, sometimes necromantic magic that would be interesting if it was released alongside the pale master revamps coming up later this year. I would totally love to have an actual death knight.

    Still, we can't have evil alignments. It would have to be restricted to non-good. I'm not sure WoTC would agree to that.
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    "Elder brains are a lot like bouncy castles. They just sit there, but if you jump up and down on them, things get interesting real quick." ~FlimsyFirewood

  18. #18
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    I would love to see an Arcane Trickster.

  19. #19
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    I could see blackguard working. Blackguard has some darker, sometimes necromantic magic that would be interesting if it was released alongside the pale master revamps coming up later this year. I would totally love to have an actual death knight.

    Still, we can't have evil alignments. It would have to be restricted to non-good. I'm not sure WoTC would agree to that.
    Yes.
    Pale Master revamp + Knight of Chalice revamp. Mix the two and we have a blackguard!
    No fun, no $$$

  20. #20
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedip View Post
    I would love to see an Arcane Trickster.
    Oh the mischief I caused my DM with that one... good times.
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