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  1. #1
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    Default This game has HUGE potential and it's making me sad

    I used to play DDO few years ago and this game has a really good potential, I can't understand why they wont just upgrade the graphics, remove ALL of the in game (Real) cash and making this a paid game.

    I think the main reason a lot of players left and new players won't join is because of the p2p content, there are just not enough people that understand that business model and people are getting angry about the paid content...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom999 View Post
    just upgrade the graphics
    Anytime you use the word "just" to describe a change, you're probably talking about something that will take 2 years of dedicated work :P

    I dont think the graphics engine is something they can just slap a patch on and suddenly its 4k photo-realistic. The engine is old. You're talking about rebuilding the entire game from square one, and that obviously isn't going to be something they can afford to do without even creating anything to sell at the end of it.

    As for the business model - I dont understand what your issue is. DDO has the best model of any MMO out there. You can go VIP and subscribe monthly if you want to. You can go a la carte if you want to. If you're patient, you can earn EVERYTHING in-game, even the expansion content - which is the only thing a lot of people actually pay for, and isnt that bad for once a year or so, and is in line with the rest of the industry.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Anytime you use the word "just" to describe a change, you're probably talking about something that will take 2 years of dedicated work :P

    I dont think the graphics engine is something they can just slap a patch on and suddenly its 4k photo-realistic. The engine is old. You're talking about rebuilding the entire game from square one, and that obviously isn't going to be something they can afford to do without even creating anything to sell at the end of it.

    As for the business model - I dont understand what your issue is. DDO has the best model of any MMO out there. You can go VIP and subscribe monthly if you want to. You can go a la carte if you want to. If you're patient, you can earn EVERYTHING in-game, even the expansion content - which is the only thing a lot of people actually pay for, and isnt that bad for once a year or so, and is in line with the rest of the industry.
    You're right about the engine but the one reason I can't play this game is because the paid quests, everybody has different quests which he bought and it's so frustrating that 1. its harder to find groups 2. in my opinion people just don't like the facts and 70% of the game is locked and paying players have better loot,much faster and more fun ways to level up.

  4. #4
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom999 View Post
    but the one reason I can't play this game is because the paid quests, everybody has different quests which he bought and it's so frustrating that 1. its harder to find groups 2. in my opinion people just don't like the facts and 70% of the game is locked and paying players have better loot,much faster and more fun ways to level up.
    As already stated you can earn enough DDO points to buy that on f2p account. Some good advice on what to do is here: https://ddowiki.com/page/Guide_to_Free_to_Play

    And you'd be surprised how many MMORPG's have similar model.

    GW2 for example is advertised as f2p but f2p acc there has limitation compared to which f2p limitations in DDO seem minor.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom999 View Post
    You're right about the engine but the one reason I can't play this game is because the paid quests, everybody has different quests which he bought and it's so frustrating that 1. its harder to find groups 2. in my opinion people just don't like the facts and 70% of the game is locked and paying players have better loot,much faster and more fun ways to level up.
    I think you're overstating the difference between "paying players" and "minimum-investment" players. I wont call them truly F2P because you do need to buy the xpacs, but its definitely paying very little and getting a whole lot year by year. You can get a lot of the stuff you're calling paywalled just through existing gameplay:

    - Run the Server Favor Grind
    - HTR or RTR your character a few times
    - Buy the expansions, which isnt any more P2P than any other comparable MMO

    You'll earn favor in-game, as intended. Use that to buy packs, especially when on sale. Each pack you buy will unlock more quests, which means more favor per life. Eventually you'll be unlocking a new pack every life or two. Its only slow at first, it speeds up a lot as you get going. If you want to inject a little extra $$$ you can speed the process up even more, but you definitely dont HAVE to.

    Many of the packs are things that no one even runs anymore, so if you're mainly interested in group play, there's a much shorter list you need to target (and stay up to date with new releases since that's what people are running).

    Considering there's 1xClass and 3xRace you can do for each character before its "done", that's lots and lots of favor rewards for free store points you can earn.

  6. #6
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom999 View Post
    I used to play DDO few years ago and this game has a really good potential, I can't understand why they wont just upgrade the graphics, remove ALL of the in game (Real) cash and making this a paid game.

    I think the main reason a lot of players left and new players won't join is because of the p2p content, there are just not enough people that understand that business model and people are getting angry about the paid content...
    There seems to be zero marketing going on.
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  7. #7
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Going to the pay-your-way model saved this game from an early death. I really don't see them ever going back to a blanket subscription fee ever again. Sorry it's not to your liking... but it's the system we have, and it's been in place the vast majority of the game's lifespan. There are ways to work with the ala carte approach that will reduce your out of pocket expenses, should you go that route.


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  8. #8
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    If you are first getting going in this game, and not willing to sub or grind rep the paywall can be pretty steep. However, that's only if you buy absolutely everything. Be patient, wait for things to go on sale, and don't buy anything you don't need. For example, if you are still trying out different builds and only getting characters into the low teens, most of the content packs are completely irrelevant to you.

    Buy a few things to fill out your leveling content. Then wait for SSG points to go on sale (i.e., "double bonus points") and for content to go on sale. Never pay full price for either if you can help it. If you approach purchasing content like a spider rather than a lion, this is one of the cheaper "FtP" MMOs to get seriously going in.

    Not the very cheapest by a long shot. For example, Myst Online URU and Kingdom of Loathing are 100% free, there are a large number of EMUS these days (e.g., COH, WAR, SWG), and you can also play Allods Online and Warframe a long **** time without paying anything from what I've seen. But still well above average IMO. For example, take SWTOR where the "free" game is so horribly gimped I never even log when I'm not subbed. Or WoT where you are "free" to be farmed by PtP players. Among FtP MMOs the "not nearly as good as DDO" list is a lot longer than the "more generous than DDO" list in my experience.

    The only thing that I find off about the model of this game is that Menace of the Underdark is **** near mandatory if you want to get serious about this game, and sub or not you absolutely will have to spring for it (with your "free" SSG points from subbing if nothing else). It seems well past time that the base versions of the first two expansions, or at least MotU, came for free with a sub. Sub for a month, get the base version of the first two expansions added to your account forever would make a lot of sense. Whales could still buy the more expensive versions for hirelings and such.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 05-25-2019 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
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    There are A LOT of packs in the game now (good job guys). Some of the much older packs that haven't aged as well are well over due for being made f2p. A 10 dollar introductory package for new players that bundled 5 or 6 older packs would go a long ways towards giving new players a taste and encourage them to become VIP instead of quitting out of frustration because they feel they're never going to be able to afford all the content in this game.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom999 View Post
    I used to play DDO few years ago and this game has a really good potential, I can't understand why they wont just upgrade the graphics, remove ALL of the in game (Real) cash and making this a paid game.

    I think the main reason a lot of players left and new players won't join is because of the p2p content, there are just not enough people that understand that business model and people are getting angry about the paid content...
    I respectfully disagree with p2p content being a problem, even drug dealers know that letting your customers get a free start is good for business.

    I do agree that the game has great potential that it's not living up to, but in my opinion it's the bugs, lag, power creep making an entry barrier, crappy inventory management, etc. that are killing it. I'm happy to pay for content, I like getting to choose what I buy, and the graphics would be enough to give me immersion if bugs didn't keep breaking it.

    The basic business model is good, the implementation needs a lot of work.
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  11. #11
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    They killed it with power creep and pay to win long ago


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  12. #12
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    I can see a need for a review of what's paid content, or even how much the older content costs. Perhaps some new bundles which provide a much lower price for buying in batches. They could actually make this in the same price brackets as the expansions, if there's enough value in there compared to buying adventure packs separately.

    For example,

    'DDO Originals' expansion - everything that was in game at the point of going F2P in 2009
    A 'Prophecies and Planes' expansion - containing all the draconic prophecy stuff, codex, vale, shavarath, invaders, menechtarun, the main quori storylines and Necropolis 1-4.

    The marketing/devs are cleverer than me, I'm sure they could find a way to break things up more sensibly than this I'm just shooting from the hip.


    If they did this, it *does* means people who paid higher prices for packs before now might perceive it as them having 'lost out' but in truth they already have, repeatedly - because packs haven't changed in price and there's been 10 years of inflation if nothing else, but also because there have been sales throughout that time where people have got things cheaper just by waiting.

    So I see no problem with producing a bunch of obvious expansion bundles out of the existing older content, which can still be bought with TP you can earn for free. They should keep the individual packs available but maybe drop the prices to whatever they normally are when they're on sale. The point is options, and new players being able to get into the game and be encouraged to take part quickly without needing to buy content as they go along that they might only be doing because the current group want to and no-one can or will buy them a pass.


    What I really don't understand mind you is why they haven't bundled in as a freebie the House Cannith quest pack with at least the two higher Sharn packs. For those that didn't have them yet, another decent set of explorers, three quests and two raids would no doubt have tipped a bunch of folk over to springing for the higher tiers, particularly given the loot system overlap.
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 05-26-2019 at 05:04 AM.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Wh070aa's Avatar
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    Splitting the player base is a huge problem, that kills the Pick up groups, making the game look more dead.

    There really should be more packaging for old quests, hopefully in less confusing way than other packaged quests. Also the pricing needs to become more reasonable, or go free to play.

    Look, no one wants pay 200 or more dollars for full game access. And monthly subscription model does not work for casual players. It's just not worth paying 10-15 bucks is you play like once every month or 2 like most casual players.

    This game is long past when it was worth the time investment to play it more than that. Especially with the raid timers and ******** preventing players for playing stuff with friends on weekends.

    Also cutting down on flagging for restricted quests that you can't get into, or quests that are located in places that make no sense, and can't be found on map, or get stuck if somone goes afk in them.

    After doing a quest chain it's pretty sad to see half of your party leave because they don't have the pack.

  14. #14
    Community Member caberonia's Avatar
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    Graphics are fine.
    Fix long-standing bugs.
    Finish ALL the unfinished projects.. Class passes. abandoned crafting systems etc etc
    Fix the Partying issues.. Gap between BB and reaper/ broken Grouping screen etc etc.
    Broken spell system with a great number of spells useless. Most spell schools are a bad joke and even the majority of decent ones become broken once you hit epic.
    Allow characters to be marked as and used as hirelings and gain xp.. bringing back viable alt play.
    Plenty more to add (feel free to add to my list) but the point is this game DID/DOES have huge potential but priorities for the limited resources is consistantly put toward new content rather than fixing the issues and bringing the game to its full potential.

    I keep lurking waiting for the OMG they fixed the game and it's totally worth playing now.. but i have a feeling that a lurker i shall remain.
    Last edited by caberonia; 05-26-2019 at 08:12 AM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    I came back to DDO because it offered me something a graphically so much better game (SWTOR) just didn't have : Mechanics, and a story in a fantasy setting. Or several stories.

    Personally, I'd really LOVE to have a game like DDO as an offline singleplayer game. I mean, really this "old school" feeling.

    Sadly, there hasn't been one for Eberron ( I like this setting very much ) and offline sp games have become somewhat rare in general, since MMO = DRM for the bigger firms. Plus, microtransactions.

    DDO presents me a diversity in settings, stories, mechanics, craftings ( plural ! ) and looks that I can't have anywhere else, as far as I know.
    Plus, DDO just isn't focused on war like so many other games out there are, across several game genres.
    DDO is the only game I currently know of that has pirates in an fantasy setting (althout I admit that I still have POEII in my backlog).

    I just wish bigger firms wouldn't see games merely as "tools for generating cash" like some well known huge company names do.
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  16. #16
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    When people talk about improving the game's graphics what they are really looking at is the game design. A wall is a wall whether it be in Stormreach or Neverwinter. And if you want that delightful Neverwinter glow, you can adjust the bloom effect and walk around in a dream haze all the time.

    As to making the game fully paid, I would quit. I do not play subscription only games and for various reasons and many others probably don't as well. Your solution to the fact that you don't have all the game content is to make all the game content available only one way. I have bought all game content at a far lower cost than if I were VIP. DDO has the best F2P model out there. You pay for things that are useful. I quit Star Wars online because they wanted 125 of their cartel coins to hide my helmet. Hide my helmet! If I still played pen and paper and dropped in at my local bookstore (yeah, they still exist) and bought a new module people would think nothing of it. But spend money on a virtual adventure. Inconceivable!

    So no, the current model is fine as is. Graphics have improved. They are pushing the old engine to the limit. Sharn and Ravenloft look great. What I think you are seeing is actually the giant design of Eberron. And everyone knows giants don't know architecture.
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  17. #17
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    The marketing/devs are cleverer than me, I'm sure they could find a way to break things up more sensibly than this I'm just shooting from the hip.
    I think the problem is they are better at developing than marketing.

    This game is awesome. But it was truly great when there were lots of players and lots of players at different levels.

    There were so many LFMs at normal, hard, and elite. You could play in a group at whatever level you were comfortable with.

    But, alas, those days are gone and I don't think any level of marketing will bring it back.

    It seems to me that really, the big money maker is the new packs. I don't know if they have a way of seeing what is being run and what isn't being run. But a good idea in my mind would be to offer ALL of the rarely run quests as free to play. And any older packs that just simply don't generate enough, or any, revenue, bundle those packs or give them away for free.

    Maybe have a way of earning the older packs to get newer players invested so that they stick around and when the next new shiny pack comes out, they want to buy it.

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