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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Design Paradigm

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    This is a companion post to the main Epic Revamp framework. Please read that post if you haven't already before reading this one! This post focuses on our Design Philosophies and the rules we used to build out the new Epic Destinies themselves.

    Epic Destiny Design Paradigm
    When looking at our current spread of 12 ED trees, they're all over the place in effectiveness and usability. We've had to contend with several strange and relatively inelegant designs that make balancing the destinies quite difficult. Therefore, when approaching the monumental task of remaking the system from scratch, we wanted to go back to the very beginning and explore the rough edges in the current system and how we've changed our designs to address those problems.

    Caster Levels
    Old EDs gave specific bonuses to specific caster levels in the cores. This meant that as a caster, you were relatively limited to Destinies in the Sphere that matched your caster level type.

    New EDs will give no specific caster levels to classes. You'll instead gain +1 Caster Level with all classes for every 2 Epic levels you've earned - so at level 30, you'll be at +5 to your caster levels.

    Spell Schools and Spell DCs
    Old destinies supported either a small subsection or all DC types at the same time, and even then, if you wanted DCs, Magister was the clear choice most of the time.

    Our goal is for each spell school to have a specialized destiny (for example, Fatesinger and Enchantment), but to also support several DC bonuses. This means that each type of DC has plenty of room to be specialized in instead of living in a single tree. Magister itself is a very special case, but we'll get to that later. Our new Spell DC Paradigm is as follows:

    • Each core of a casting tree grants +1 Epic bonus to all DCs (so core 2 grants +2 Epic bonus, core 3 grants +3 epic bonus)
      • Since this is typed, it does not stack, so taking cores from other trees will not increase your DCs.
    • Each of these casting trees in tier 5 has an enhancement that grants +1/2/3 to all DCs.
      • Since this is in tier 5, and like with heroic enhancement trees you can only spend points in the tier 5's of a single Destiny, you can only access one of these universal DC boosts.
    • In tier 3, there is a multiselector of a subset of DCs that grants +1/2/3 to the selected DC
      • These are antirequisites of the same DC found in other trees. Once you select necromancy in one tree, you can't take it in the other tree.
      • This means that if you are a Necromancy DC caster, you will want 1 of your trees to have that Necromancy, but once you've gotten that DC, your other options are wide open
      • This also means that you can go wide for more DCs for secondary DC values OR go tall to keep focusing, rather than wanting to go wide for all of the DCs across all of the trees that offer it
    • We are also planning on removing the Epic Resilience buff from all monsters at endgame to make DCs across the board far easier to achieve.


    Spellpower Types
    Our goal is for each type of spellpower to have at least one tree that specializes in that type of spellcasting damage, with Draconic and Primal Avatar both leaning on different parts of the role of "choose a spellpower to specialize in". This means that if you're a caster that tries to deal spell damage, you'll have two or maybe three trees full of attractive options to encourage you to pick the ones that are right for your specific build. We're also opening up Draconic and Primal Avatar to cover a lot more ground horizontally, but you'll see that in the specific trees itself.

    There simply isn't actually a lot of Spellpower in the current Epic Destinies, which means that compared to a melee or ranged character, your spell damage from raw spellpower didn't actually increase that much in your Epic Destiny.

    In our new flow, each core of a Spellcasting Destiny will grant +5 Spellpower in the thematic types (For example, Fatesinger will boost Force and Sonic) as well as +5 Universal Spellpower. There will also be +20 thematic and +20 Universal spellpower in the tiers of each Spellcasting Destiny, for a total of +35 thematic/+35 universal in each tree.

    Spell Critical Chance
    Old EDs gave a smattering of spell critical chance that disproportionately boosted the elements presented. Fire and Light were at a severe advantage, and other elements were neglected.

    New EDs will give no spell critical chance.

    Spell Critical Damage
    Draconic being the only source of Spell Critical Damage meant it was clearly superior in terms of raw damage for almost all damaging casters, even if it was aesthetically or synergistically suboptimal.

    New EDs will give no spell critical damage, but that doesn't mean players won't have access to it going forward, as we'll get to further down.

    Melee and Ranged Power
    Each tree that wants you to deal damage with weapons will now support both melee and ranged in both their active attacks and respective powers.

    Each tree that grants Melee/Ranged power will now do it at an equal rate across all trees to prevent one tree from simply granting more than the others. We want players to choose the tree that best fits their desired playstyle and not the tree that simply has the greatest numerical superiority.

    Melee Power per Core Ability: 10
    Ranged Power per Core Ability: 6

    Each melee/ranged tree will also grant both melee and ranged power at the same time. The exception to this is Fury of the Wild and Shiradi Champion, which will grant only Melee Power and only Ranged Power respectively, and contain only melee and only ranged attacks respectively.

    Usage-Per-Rest Abilities
    Rather than individual abilities having their own charges (for example, Healing Spring in Shiradi being usable some number of times per rest), if we use a charges-per-rest system in the new ED trees, it will always have a heroic or shared component. Keeping with Healing Spring, in the new paradigm, it will instead use Wild Empathy charges (and grant a few so that you'll be able to start with the same amount of charges or more in the new flow). You'll see a lot more abilities that use things like Turn Undead, Bard Songs, Rage, and Smite Evil, and a lot of ways to augment recovering those charges or increasing your pool. This helps the Epic Destiny trees feel more like an extension of your existing abilities than an unconnected system meant to replace them.

    Feat Tie-Ins
    We're going to try to reclaim as many of the old and sub-optimal feats as we can - for example, an ED ability that grants a significant bonus if you have the Luck of Heroes Feat trained - in ways that would reward you for having them in your build without making them mandatory. Some feats might need additional help, but with this we're going to make an effort to tie a lot of those loose ends up.

    You'll also see a lot of abilities that tie into Destiny and Epic feats that are underused or overlooked, such as Embodiment of Chaos/Law and the Bulwark of Defense feat. When these appear, rather than being requirements to train, they will instead apply an additional bonus if you have the feat to reward players who decide to shift their own meta.

    Ability Score Bonuses
    There are no more ability score bonuses in these trees (meaning the line of +1 Stat across the right edge of each ED) - they took up a full 1/5th of the real estate of the old EDs and caused far more trouble than they're worth from a build choice perspective. This means that any class or build can effectively use any tree without worrying about ability score mismatches. This also means that we have 20% more real estate per tree to pack in more exciting abilities that better explore the themes of each Destiny.

    DC Checks
    Old Epic Destinies had DC checks that used specific stats to determine their DC, and sometimes didn't include DC bonuses they should have. This meant that if you were a specific caster type, you were limited in which SLAs had workable DCs.

    If an ability in a new Epic Destiny uses a DC, it follows this formula: 20 + (highest of int/wis/cha if a spell, highest of str/dex/con if a purely physical ability, highest of all ability scores if otherwise/both) + (spell school bonus if it's a spell, appropriate DC boost such as Sunder or Trip if not, includes things like Breath Weapon if it's a Breath Weapon, etc)

    This means that you can expect a relatively small range of DCs for your abilities that use the same stats, even across separate trees. It also means that if you're a spellcaster, your primary spellcasting stat will be able to contribute evenly, regardless of which tree you are in.

    New Trees
    One of the major changes as a part of this refactor is that we can begin releasing entirely new Epic Destiny trees. Our goal is to end up with 12 at the start, and then slowly start rolling out more, at least until we can get up to 15, with each tree loosely corresponding to a heroic class.

    In more immediate news, we're going to be retiring the Magister Epic Destiny and replacing it with Magus of the Eclipse, a brand new ED that focuses on Negative, Cold, and Necromancy spells, as well as weaving potent anti-magical defenses. Eventually The Magus of the Eclipse tree preview post will have a lot more information on why this tree specifically was replaced entirely instead of being refactored but that isn't ready for this early preview. For now, suffice it to say that when we went into building out a new cohesive epic ecosystem Magister in it's current broad form did not fit the framework.

    Epic Destiny Mantles, Builders, Spenders, Charges, and Enhancers
    To help keep Epic Destinies feeling mechanically different than heroic trees, we're putting together a global system of active play across all trees.

    Destiny Mantles
    In the lower tiers of each Destiny Tree you will find an enhancement labeled as a Destiny Mantle. These are powerful persistent abilities that must be toggled on in order to gain their benefits. You can only have a single Destiny Mantle active at a time. You can take multiple of these Mantles in order to swap between them on the fly, however, you can only gain the benefits from one of them at a time. These exclusive toggles are how we plan to keep powerful passive abilities and aspects separate from each other (for example, Grandmaster of Flower's monk animation suite versus Shadowdancer's Shadowform) without making them truly exclusive. Their exclusivity also means that we can allow players access to them right at level 20.

    Charge System, Builders and Spenders
    Scattered throughout the Destiny Trees you will find abilities that mention one of four varieties of "Charges". These are a resource shared amongst multiple Destiny Trees. There are 4 types of Epic Charges:

    Arcane Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Divine Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Martial Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Primal Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.

    Throughout the Destiny Trees you will find many enhancements that will grant you one of those 4 Charge types. On their own these Charges do nothing except stack up to their cap for their duration. There are, however, other enhancements in Destiny Trees that either passively grant buffs to you when you have active stacks of a particular Charge type or Consume Charges of a particular type, if you have them on you when activating the ability, to enhance the effect of the attack.

    Do those names sound familiar? You guessed it. Trees that were previously in the above spheres will now still be mechanically linked because they all will use the same type of Charge. Of course, there are some exceptions, and certain trees might use more than one, or all four at the same time.

    Below are examples of these 3 types of enhancements:
    Builder: Make a melee attack against all nearby enemies that deals +1(W). Grants you a Divine Charge on activation.
    Enhancer: +5/10/15 Hit Points. Rank 3: Divine Charges now grant 5 Universal Spell Power per stack.
    Spender: Make a Ranged attack with a +1 Critical Multiplier. Consume all Divine Charges on use. This attack has an additional +1 Critical Multiplier per Divine Charge consumed.

    In these examples, you could activate the "Builder" in order to make an attack and gain a Divine Charge. If you also had the "Enhancer" enhancement then you would gain +5 Universal Spell Power for the duration of that Divine Charge (Default duration is 10 seconds for all 4 Charge Types). If you activated the "Builder" again you would then have 2 Divine Charges and, as a result of the "Enhancer" +10 Universal Spell Power. Then, if you activated the "Spender" both of your Divine Charges would be consumed (removing your +10 Universal Spell Power) but you would make a Ranged Attack with a +3 Critical Multiplier.

    There are multiple builders, enhancers, and spenders for each Charge type but you may need to invest into multiple Destiny Trees in order to get the particular combination that you want. Note that all Builders will share a cooldown, so you may take multiple, but you will not be able to use them one after the other right away.
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 06-15-2021 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    If an ability in a new Epic Destiny uses a DC, it follows this formula: 20 + (highest of int/wis/cha if a spell, highest of str/dex/con if a purely physical ability, highest of all ability scores if otherwise/both) + (spell school bonus if it's a spell, appropriate DC boost such as Sunder or Trip if not, includes things like Breath Weapon if it's a Breath Weapon, etc)
    DDO offers three universal enhancement trees which use Int, Cha or Wisdom for attack and damage: Harper, Feydark, and Falconry. This will make dire charge useless for them, and make the top abilities in Legendary Dreadnaught and Fury of the Wild pointless in the P2P trees. A monk with falconry will have no DCs with The Great Leveler, and a Paladin with Feydark will have little use for Dire Charge. This also hurts every Eldritch Knight who uses Harper.

    This needs a rethink - either your P2P enhancement trees or those two core melee destiny trees become worthless if capstone epic destiny abilities are not viable for the many melee builds that do not use Str, Dex or Con. Build diversity drops, since every Monk, Paladin and Eldritch Knight will have to go Str or Dex based. The Cha-based enhancements for the iconic PDK also become pointless, as will the melee FvS using Grace/Knowledge of Battle.

    Maybe unrelated, but sad to see that you're getting rid of EiN and Consume.

  3. #3
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Default Not a fan of charges system

    Didn't we just get rid of charge systems in Epic Destinies a few updates ago? Because they were a pain to manage...

    Why the heck would we be building this as a core in the new system?
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    Regarding Destiny Mantles, I thought stacking auras were a major source of (server?) lag. Why do we keep adding different kinds of auras if you keep finding they bog the servers down over time? Especially since almost everyone in epics will (probably) have them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    [B][COLOR=#FF0000]If an ability in a new Epic Destiny uses a DC, it follows this formula: 20 + (highest of int/wis/cha if a spell, highest of str/dex/con if a purely physical ability, highest of all ability scores if otherwise/both)
    Not a fan of this - this restricts build diversity rather than promote it. Base everything off highest stat like Dire Charge.

  6. #6
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    Reading through the trees the entire "build-spender" system just looks so very annoying and unfun.

    Overall, it looks like you are level gating, tree gating, removing or nerfed most of the strong/fun options I and many others currently use (from feats, twists or otherwise) and replacing them with being able to take more mediocre ability and a builder-spender system that just looks annoying.

    Wrt. level gating in particular - gear already majorly level gates with the major bump at 29. Adding level gating to EDs as well just makes low epics even more lackluster.

    a) Reduce the level gating.
    Change ED Tier 3 and Core 2 to level 21
    Change ED Tier 4 and Core 3 to level 23
    Change ED Tier 5 to level 25
    Add 10 more Destiny points from the start and add just 3 DP each level rather than 4.

    b) Remove the builder-spender system.

    c) Move the big ability to T4 in their trees. Mass Frog, Dire Charge, Hunts End etc. Allow for build diversity and power rather than nerf everything so badly.

    Hopefully someone else will find the bright sides of these changes - I cannot at this moment.
    Last edited by mikarddo; 06-15-2021 at 04:38 PM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caarb View Post
    Not a fan of this - this restricts build diversity rather than promote it. Base everything off highest stat like Dire Charge.
    Agreed. Unless there's a compelling reason to nerf mental-stat melee, don't do it.

    Beyond that, I'm concerned about losing Dire Charge entirely, by putting it in LD instead of as an Epic feat.

  8. #8
    Community Member Valerianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    Didn't we just get rid of charge systems in Epic Destinies a few updates ago? Because they were a pain to manage...

    Why the heck would we be building this as a core in the new system?

    i was thinking the same.

    i was thinking too about, won't also this create too many checks\timers\buffs\active effect on players and when we attack\cast? i thought it was critical to reduce them. maybe i am missing something?


    also this is pretty big "We are also planning on removing the Epic Resilience buff from all monsters at endgame to make DCs across the board far easier to achieve." and this is very nice, but please, what do you mean by endgame? level 30 + quests only? wouldn't it be better to just totally remove it from the game?

  9. #9

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    Is it intended that only one charge type (martial, primal, etc) can be active? I was unable to get both a Martial Charge and Primal Charge simultaneously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    Didn't we just get rid of charge systems in Epic Destinies a few updates ago? Because they were a pain to manage...

    Why the heck would we be building this as a core in the new system?
    And the change 10 years ago to spell power clickies (eg, Devotion) was purportedly because new players found it too difficult to manage. The same rationale was given when things like invis clickies were removed from most of the loot tables in the game, and Cloak of Ice was nerfed into uselessness.

    I'm used to managing spell points, but tracking charges is not something I enjoy - I'll sometimes run in sun stance just to avoid even having to worry about Ki. Not once in the past year have I bothered with Aligning the Heavens, or actually wasted time or effort to memorize or trying to build up the weak finishing moves on monk lives. Ki is for spamming Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light after every cooldown, and that's about it - I resent having to waste points in the Henshin tree on any Ki-based abilities. During quests, I ration my Aasimar heals or LoH as if each charge was physically ripped from my body.

    There are a few abilities in game that offers better DCs after each miss/failure, and I avoid things like that because they are unreliable and not always available. They get buried on a distant toolbar, and forgotten. So I'm fully in agreement with you - why would they make that type of thing?

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    what i see very clearly is that spell crit chance and spell crit damage are being nerfed in epics/legendaries - along with the destinies not granting much spell power at all - a major nerf to dps casters, specifically this will further hurt sorcs and likely outright kill warlocks who's dps is already awful.

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    The builder-spender system is video game babble and doesn't belong in DDO - we don't want or need this - We are Dungeons & Dragons - there are hundreds of 5e ideas for prestige class abilities instead of trying to make DDO into a some Diablo meets Witcher meets Elder Scrolls clone

  13. #13
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Here we go

    Last nite I was looking over the oval pattern of the epic destiny tree
    Thinking, this is a beautiful cool 12 pointed Diamond
    They did good work when they did this
    It’s intricately related

    I was hoping, revamp
    We’ll get a cool new 15 pointed Diamond
    And maybe some of that special crazy designer insight pattern
    You know, because those old level 25 ED were so Escher like

    Nope
    12 for now
    3 to come
    Well of course
    Money money money

    I figured if you were gonna tear it down and rebuild it
    You’d rebuild it with the 15 class pattern
    So, on that I’m disappointed

    Like I said were just getting started
    Brilliant!
    And that’s the Guinness speaking

    It’s gonna be a lot of cigarettes tonite

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    I hope build and spending charges is smoothed out and well implemented because we already had a system similar to this as part of shadow dancer and primal avatar previously and it got removed because it was too much of a hassle for players to use and the plan is to now add it to all destinies just saying it was removed for a good reason.

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    The charge/builder/spender system sounds very annoying; not excited for it.

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    PLEASE don't do the builder/enhancer/spender system for EDs. I hate that type of game play and can't stress enough how annoying and unfun this type of system is.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Epic Destiny Mantles, Builders, Spenders, Charges, and Enhancers
    To help keep Epic Destinies feeling mechanically different than heroic trees, we're putting together a global system of active play across all trees.

    Destiny Mantles
    In the lower tiers of each Destiny Tree you will find an enhancement labeled as a Destiny Mantle. These are powerful persistent abilities that must be toggled on in order to gain their benefits. You can only have a single Destiny Mantle active at a time. You can take multiple of these Mantles in order to swap between them on the fly, however, you can only gain the benefits from one of them at a time. These exclusive toggles are how we plan to keep powerful passive abilities and aspects separate from each other (for example, Grandmaster of Flower's monk animation suite versus Shadowdancer's Shadowform) without making them truly exclusive. Their exclusivity also means that we can allow players access to them right at level 20.
    So mantles seem like a potentially decent system. But without unyielding and Exalted Angel available I don't know how they'll actually play out for my builds or if it's going to turn into a bad case of constantly swapping stances (which I hate stance dancing, it gets tiresome fast). But at least with the little I dealt with it so far, it has potential for me to keep liking them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Charge System, Builders and Spenders
    Scattered throughout the Destiny Trees you will find abilities that mention one of four varieties of "Charges". These are a resource shared amongst multiple Destiny Trees. There are 4 types of Epic Charges:

    Arcane Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Divine Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Martial Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Primal Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.

    Throughout the Destiny Trees you will find many enhancements that will grant you one of those 4 Charge types. On their own these Charges do nothing except stack up to their cap for their duration. There are, however, other enhancements in Destiny Trees that either passively grant buffs to you when you have active stacks of a particular Charge type or Consume Charges of a particular type, if you have them on you when activating the ability, to enhance the effect of the attack.
    Meh. Managing charges is so annoying. Micro-management of charges isn't my idea of fun. I'm sure I'd eventually get used to it and even get good at it, but meh, it's so not on my list of things I want to have to adapt to.

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    Overall...there seems to be far too many unique active attacks in the new design philosophy. I worry about hotbar real estate, especially for those of us that like to run with a minimalistic rotation in combat. I know you want to move away from overreliance on proc effects, but I would like to see more options that "boost" your class-tree Enhancement rotations, rather than add new buttons to them.

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    Unhappy Please dont... Really

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    This is a companion post to the main Epic Revamp framework. Please read that post if you haven't already before reading this one! This post focuses on our Design Philosophies and the rules we used to build out the new Epic Destinies themselves.

    Epic Destiny Design Paradigm
    When looking at our current spread of 12 ED trees, they're all over the place in effectiveness and usability. We've had to contend with several strange and relatively inelegant designs that make balancing the destinies quite difficult. Therefore, when approaching the monumental task of remaking the system from scratch, we wanted to go back to the very beginning and explore the rough edges in the current system and how we've changed our designs to address those problems.

    Caster Levels
    Old EDs gave specific bonuses to specific caster levels in the cores. This meant that as a caster, you were relatively limited to Destinies in the Sphere that matched your caster level type.

    New EDs will give no specific caster levels to classes. You'll instead gain +1 Caster Level with all classes for every 2 Epic levels you've earned - so at level 30, you'll be at +5 to your caster levels.

    Spell Schools and Spell DCs
    Old destinies supported either a small subsection or all DC types at the same time, and even then, if you wanted DCs, Magister was the clear choice most of the time.

    Our goal is for each spell school to have a specialized destiny (for example, Fatesinger and Enchantment), but to also support several DC bonuses. This means that each type of DC has plenty of room to be specialized in instead of living in a single tree. Magister itself is a very special case, but we'll get to that later. Our new Spell DC Paradigm is as follows:

    • Each core of a casting tree grants +1 Epic bonus to all DCs (so core 2 grants +2 Epic bonus, core 3 grants +3 epic bonus)
      • Since this is typed, it does not stack, so taking cores from other trees will not increase your DCs.
    • Each of these casting trees in tier 5 has an enhancement that grants +1/2/3 to all DCs.
      • Since this is in tier 5, and like with heroic enhancement trees you can only spend points in the tier 5's of a single Destiny, you can only access one of these universal DC boosts.
    • In tier 3, there is a multiselector of a subset of DCs that grants +1/2/3 to the selected DC
      • These are antirequisites of the same DC found in other trees. Once you select necromancy in one tree, you can't take it in the other tree.
      • This means that if you are a Necromancy DC caster, you will want 1 of your trees to have that Necromancy, but once you've gotten that DC, your other options are wide open
      • This also means that you can go wide for more DCs for secondary DC values OR go tall to keep focusing, rather than wanting to go wide for all of the DCs across all of the trees that offer it
    • We are also planning on removing the Epic Resilience buff from all monsters at endgame to make DCs across the board far easier to achieve.


    Spellpower Types
    Our goal is for each type of spellpower to have at least one tree that specializes in that type of spellcasting damage, with Draconic and Primal Avatar both leaning on different parts of the role of "choose a spellpower to specialize in". This means that if you're a caster that tries to deal spell damage, you'll have two or maybe three trees full of attractive options to encourage you to pick the ones that are right for your specific build. We're also opening up Draconic and Primal Avatar to cover a lot more ground horizontally, but you'll see that in the specific trees itself.

    There simply isn't actually a lot of Spellpower in the current Epic Destinies, which means that compared to a melee or ranged character, your spell damage from raw spellpower didn't actually increase that much in your Epic Destiny.

    In our new flow, each core of a Spellcasting Destiny will grant +5 Spellpower in the thematic types (For example, Fatesinger will boost Force and Sonic) as well as +5 Universal Spellpower. There will also be +20 thematic and +20 Universal spellpower in the tiers of each Spellcasting Destiny, for a total of +35 thematic/+35 universal in each tree.

    Spell Critical Chance
    Old EDs gave a smattering of spell critical chance that disproportionately boosted the elements presented. Fire and Light were at a severe advantage, and other elements were neglected.

    New EDs will give no spell critical chance.

    Spell Critical Damage
    Draconic being the only source of Spell Critical Damage meant it was clearly superior in terms of raw damage for almost all damaging casters, even if it was aesthetically or synergistically suboptimal.

    New EDs will give no spell critical damage, but that doesn't mean players won't have access to it going forward, as we'll get to further down.

    Melee and Ranged Power
    Each tree that wants you to deal damage with weapons will now support both melee and ranged in both their active attacks and respective powers.

    Each tree that grants Melee/Ranged power will now do it at an equal rate across all trees to prevent one tree from simply granting more than the others. We want players to choose the tree that best fits their desired playstyle and not the tree that simply has the greatest numerical superiority.

    Melee Power per Core Ability: 10
    Ranged Power per Core Ability: 6

    Each melee/ranged tree will also grant both melee and ranged power at the same time. The exception to this is Fury of the Wild and Shiradi Champion, which will grant only Melee Power and only Ranged Power respectively, and contain only melee and only ranged attacks respectively.

    Usage-Per-Rest Abilities
    Rather than individual abilities having their own charges (for example, Healing Spring in Shiradi being usable some number of times per rest), if we use a charges-per-rest system in the new ED trees, it will always have a heroic or shared component. Keeping with Healing Spring, in the new paradigm, it will instead use Wild Empathy charges (and grant a few so that you'll be able to start with the same amount of charges or more in the new flow). You'll see a lot more abilities that use things like Turn Undead, Bard Songs, Rage, and Smite Evil, and a lot of ways to augment recovering those charges or increasing your pool. This helps the Epic Destiny trees feel more like an extension of your existing abilities than an unconnected system meant to replace them.

    Feat Tie-Ins
    We're going to try to reclaim as many of the old and sub-optimal feats as we can - for example, an ED ability that grants a significant bonus if you have the Luck of Heroes Feat trained - in ways that would reward you for having them in your build without making them mandatory. Some feats might need additional help, but with this we're going to make an effort to tie a lot of those loose ends up.

    You'll also see a lot of abilities that tie into Destiny and Epic feats that are underused or overlooked, such as Embodiment of Chaos/Law and the Bulwark of Defense feat. When these appear, rather than being requirements to train, they will instead apply an additional bonus if you have the feat to reward players who decide to shift their own meta.

    Ability Score Bonuses
    There are no more ability score bonuses in these trees (meaning the line of +1 Stat across the right edge of each ED) - they took up a full 1/5th of the real estate of the old EDs and caused far more trouble than they're worth from a build choice perspective. This means that any class or build can effectively use any tree without worrying about ability score mismatches. This also means that we have 20% more real estate per tree to pack in more exciting abilities that better explore the themes of each Destiny.

    DC Checks
    Old Epic Destinies had DC checks that used specific stats to determine their DC, and sometimes didn't include DC bonuses they should have. This meant that if you were a specific caster type, you were limited in which SLAs had workable DCs.

    If an ability in a new Epic Destiny uses a DC, it follows this formula: 20 + (highest of int/wis/cha if a spell, highest of str/dex/con if a purely physical ability, highest of all ability scores if otherwise/both) + (spell school bonus if it's a spell, appropriate DC boost such as Sunder or Trip if not, includes things like Breath Weapon if it's a Breath Weapon, etc)

    This means that you can expect a relatively small range of DCs for your abilities that use the same stats, even across separate trees. It also means that if you're a spellcaster, your primary spellcasting stat will be able to contribute evenly, regardless of which tree you are in.

    New Trees
    One of the major changes as a part of this refactor is that we can begin releasing entirely new Epic Destiny trees. Our goal is to end up with 12 at the start, and then slowly start rolling out more, at least until we can get up to 15, with each tree loosely corresponding to a heroic class.

    In more immediate news, we're going to be retiring the Magister Epic Destiny and replacing it with Magus of the Eclipse, a brand new ED that focuses on Negative, Cold, and Necromancy spells, as well as weaving potent anti-magical defenses. Eventually The Magus of the Eclipse tree preview post will have a lot more information on why this tree specifically was replaced entirely instead of being refactored but that isn't ready for this early preview. For now, suffice it to say that when we went into building out a new cohesive epic ecosystem Magister in it's current broad form did not fit the framework.

    Epic Destiny Mantles, Builders, Spenders, Charges, and Enhancers
    To help keep Epic Destinies feeling mechanically different than heroic trees, we're putting together a global system of active play across all trees.

    Destiny Mantles
    In the lower tiers of each Destiny Tree you will find an enhancement labeled as a Destiny Mantle. These are powerful persistent abilities that must be toggled on in order to gain their benefits. You can only have a single Destiny Mantle active at a time. You can take multiple of these Mantles in order to swap between them on the fly, however, you can only gain the benefits from one of them at a time. These exclusive toggles are how we plan to keep powerful passive abilities and aspects separate from each other (for example, Grandmaster of Flower's monk animation suite versus Shadowdancer's Shadowform) without making them truly exclusive. Their exclusivity also means that we can allow players access to them right at level 20.

    Charge System, Builders and Spenders
    Scattered throughout the Destiny Trees you will find abilities that mention one of four varieties of "Charges". These are a resource shared amongst multiple Destiny Trees. There are 4 types of Epic Charges:

    Arcane Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Divine Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Martial Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.
    Primal Charge: Duration: 10 Seconds. Cap: 3 Stacks. Enhancements can modify.

    Throughout the Destiny Trees you will find many enhancements that will grant you one of those 4 Charge types. On their own these Charges do nothing except stack up to their cap for their duration. There are, however, other enhancements in Destiny Trees that either passively grant buffs to you when you have active stacks of a particular Charge type or Consume Charges of a particular type, if you have them on you when activating the ability, to enhance the effect of the attack.

    Do those names sound familiar? You guessed it. Trees that were previously in the above spheres will now still be mechanically linked because they all will use the same type of Charge. Of course, there are some exceptions, and certain trees might use more than one, or all four at the same time.

    Below are examples of these 3 types of enhancements:
    Builder: Make a melee attack against all nearby enemies that deals +1(W). Grants you a Divine Charge on activation.
    Enhancer: +5/10/15 Hit Points. Rank 3: Divine Charges now grant 5 Universal Spell Power per stack.
    Spender: Make a Ranged attack with a +1 Critical Multiplier. Consume all Divine Charges on use. This attack has an additional +1 Critical Multiplier per Divine Charge consumed.

    In these examples, you could activate the "Builder" in order to make an attack and gain a Divine Charge. If you also had the "Enhancer" enhancement then you would gain +5 Universal Spell Power for the duration of that Divine Charge (Default duration is 10 seconds for all 4 Charge Types). If you activated the "Builder" again you would then have 2 Divine Charges and, as a result of the "Enhancer" +10 Universal Spell Power. Then, if you activated the "Spender" both of your Divine Charges would be consumed (removing your +10 Universal Spell Power) but you would make a Ranged Attack with a +3 Critical Multiplier.

    There are multiple builders, enhancers, and spenders for each Charge type but you may need to invest into multiple Destiny Trees in order to get the particular combination that you want. Note that all Builders will share a cooldown, so you may take multiple, but you will not be able to use them one after the other right away.
    Im all for a change for ED but this just sounds horrible... It sounds like you want to take each unique path and just make them universal which ruins lots of builds in this game... and why make all of them universal when for example magister, a ED tree based on wizard gives lots of spell dc because wizard is a dc caster! Sure other caster paths didnt really give dc but thats because the other paths shouldnt need them! Sorc is mostly elemental damage.. sure it has dc but there are plenty of ways to get the dc high enough with out using magister to make it work amazingly.

  20. #20
    Uber Completionist rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Overall...there seems to be far too many unique active attacks in the new design philosophy. I worry about hotbar real estate, especially for those of us that like to run with a minimalistic rotation in combat. I know you want to move away from overreliance on proc effects, but I would like to see more options that "boost" your class-tree Enhancement rotations, rather than add new buttons to them.
    Meanwhile I currently run with 18 bars, and this'll likely push me to 19/20 and I may need more (which don't exist)...

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