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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U50 Preview 1: Scroll/Seal/Shard Loot Revamp

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Update 50 includes the complete refactor of the Seal/Scroll/Shard crafting system, which is usually abbreviated to s/s/s. There's a lot to get into, so let's dive right in.

    All of the rest of the Heroic items from the s/s/s item packs will be revamped as part of this pass. This includes the following adventure packs:

    • Web of Chaos
    • The Vault of Night
    • The Chronoscope
    • The Sands of Menachterun (NOTE: Not present in this preview!)
    • Phiarlan Carnival (already completed in U39)
    • The Red Fens (already completed in U36)
    • Sentinels of Stormreach (already completed in U40)


    All of the Epic items from the above packs will also be revamped to bring them up to appropriate scaling values (as with our other revamps).

    Finally, all of the above packs will get level 30 Legendary versions of their items that will be competitive for endgame play.

    So, what's changing with the upgrade flow?

    Heroic items will continue to drop as-is.

    Epic items are obtained in the Altar of Epic Rituals with the following recipe: Heroic Item + 50 Pack Ingredients* ( + 5 Greater Tokens of the Twelve if the item is from a Raid)

    Legendary items are obtained in a new Altar of Legendary Rituals with the following recipe: Epic Item + 100 Pack Ingredients + 5 Star Fragments** ( + 250 Threads of Fate if the item is from a Raid)

    *: Pack Ingredients will drop wherever Seals or Shards would drop in a moderate amount. It will likely take 2-3 runs of a quest to get enough of the material for 1 item. These ingredients are Pack Specific - for example, the Pack Ingredient for the Chronoscope would be a Broken Sliver of Time, etc. You'll likely collect quite a bit of these, as they're a guaranteed drop and they're also obtained elsewhere, as specified below.

    **: Star Fragments will be an uncommon drop from Legendary Saltmarsh to start, and will become more available later on (just like how Empty Soul Vessels will be joining the list of Threads of Fate purchasable items as of Update 50). Our goal is that it will not be hard to find enough of these to upgrade your items.

    What about our existing materials?

    You will be able to crunch unused seals, scrolls, and shards down into some amount of Pack Ingredients of the appropriate type.

    Why not just let the Epic Items drop as-is?

    Since the s/s/s is a crafting system, we don't want to invalidate previous progress. If someone has spent 10 years grinding the ESoS, we don't want to tell that person to keep farming for it, we want to actually let them get that item as soon as the update drops. They've already done the time, we need to let them turn those spare materials (which in this instance represent time they're already spent grinding) into a tangible reward.

    What are you going to do about the ESoS?

    Nothing, I actually don't think that item needs changing. If people can finally get and use it, that's great, I'm genuinely happy to make something that cool more accessible.

    Are you worried that by making those items, which have for so long been so rare, so much easier to obtain, that you'll be invalidating the years of grinding already spent?

    That's something only the players can really answer for me.

    What are you going to do with the legendary SoS?

    We are not going to be creating a functional Legendary version of the Sword of Shadows. If we were to create a version that kept the large expanded critical profile that it is known for it would be incredibly hard to create other comparable legendary weapons that didn't also feature that same expanded critical profile. If we were to make a functional greatsword that used the Sword of Shadows name but didn't have that expanded critical profile it would feel like a pale imitation of the lower level variants. With that being said, the plan currently is to create a cosmetic version of the Sword of Shadows featuring brand new art inspired by the current model that can be earned and shown off. We know this solution will not fit all desires but believe it necessary to avoid painting our item design into a corner.

    If we have old Epic items, will we need to reobtain them?

    There is already a stone-of-change recipe that will let you turn any epic s/s/s item into a new version, so no, just throw it in the stone of change, it'll fix itself. Be aware, this will effectively delete your item and give you a new one, so take care if you have Augments or Sentient Filigree that you'd want to keep.

    What about Mythic Bonuses?

    Since we aren't "dropping" these items, we can't rely on our existing mythic tables, so we're probably going to need to get fancy. Current plan:

    Players will be able to turn a large chunk of Threads of Fate into an item that, when combined with an Epic or Legendary version of an item, upgrade it to Mythic and then Mythic +3 (or +4). Sorta like the Schism Shard recipes but more generic (so we don't need 900 different crafting recipes). Note: This is not present in this preview.

    How does Saltmarsh fit into this?

    Saltmarsh will contain new, level 3 heroic items, that you will then be able to upgrade into level 20 and then level 30 versions through Epic and Legendary Crafting. Saltmarsh's Legendary content will still contain a few standalone level 29 items, as well as new Augments, but a portion of Saltmarsh will require engagement with the revamped s/s/s system. Feel free to take a look at the items in this preview in the Saltmarsh Itemization post!

    Note: There is also something special with certain Saltmarsh items in this system that will get to do something a little differently, but that part wasn't quite ready for this preview.

    Can we walk through an upgrade process just to be sure?

    Sure! Here's how someone would obtain a copy of the Legendary Kundarak Delving Boots. First, they would do the raid The Vault of Night and its subsequent raid, The Plane of Night. In the end chest on any difficulty (heroic and epic), there is a chance to obtain a copy of the heroic level Kundarak Delving Boots. From there, they would take the Kundarak Delving Boots, 50 Vault Keys (found within any Vault of Night chest that could have dropped a Seal or Shard), and 5 Greater Tokens of the Twelve, and combine them in the Alter of Epic Rituals found within The Twelve to obtain the Epic Kundarak Delving Boots. With those, they would take their new Epic Kundarak Delving Boots, 100 Vault Keys, 250 Threads of Fate, and 5 Star Fragments, and combine them in the Alter of Legendary Rituals to obtain the Legendary Kundarak Delving Boots. If you had a copy of the current Kundarak Delving Boots or Epic Kundarak Delving Boots, you can skip right ahead to whichever part of this process, as the old items from before the revamp will work with this new system.

  2. #2
    Uber Completionist rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Finally, all of the above packs will get level 30 Legendary versions of their items that will be competitive for endgame play.
    Awesome!!!

  3. #3
    Community Member grudgebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    **: Star Fragments will be an uncommon drop from Legendary Saltmarsh to start, and will become more available later on (just like how Empty Soul Vessels will be joining the list of Threads of Fate purchasable items as of Update 50). Our goal is that it will not be hard to find enough of these to upgrade your items.


  4. #4
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    This seems like a great change. What is going on here is update 50 going to be great for the game?

  5. #5
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    im still getting rid of all this garbage
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  6. #6
    Community Member Khurse's Avatar
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    Red fens Legendary gear says it's part of the sets, but doesn't have any bonuses listed.

  7. #7

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    Theoretically, I love this solution. Standardizing gear into a flexible, scalable framework both in acquisition methods and power. Kudos to the team that worked on this. I can see this breathing new life into "heritage" content like Sands.

    More practically, a few questions:
    • Will we have to crunch our existing ingredients manually, or will it happen for us? In other words, how painful is this going to be for those with hundreds of ingredients?
    • What is the long-term design philosophy for "uncommon" Epic ingredients such as Tokens of the Twelves and Star Fragments? Can we ever expect to see _new_ content that drops regular or raid Tokens (or see them added to existing Epic Eberron content)?
    • Does this mean there is a plan to create Legendary versions of this content?
    • Should I wait to farm a Whirlwind for my TRs since (I am assuming) there won't be a way to upgrade existing Heroic base items?
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  8. #8
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    If we have old Epic items, will we need to reobtain them?

    There is already a stone-of-change recipe that will let you turn any epic s/s/s item into a new version, so no, just throw it in the stone of change, it'll fix itself. Be aware, this will effectively delete your item and give you a new one, so take care if you have Augments or Sentient Filigree that you'd want to keep.
    lets see if i get this straight:
    if i take an heroic sands item and upgrade it with SSS, i can just throw it into the stone of change after u50 to get the lvl30 version of it?
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  9. #9
    Community Member Zess-wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visty View Post
    lets see if i get this straight:
    if i take an heroic sands item and upgrade it with SSS, i can just throw it into the stone of change after u50 to get the lvl30 version of it?
    No read again

    you get the same version you have (epic for example) - then with ingredients from saltmarsh (currently) you upgrade to lv.30
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visty View Post
    lets see if i get this straight:
    if i take an heroic sands item and upgrade it with SSS, i can just throw it into the stone of change after u50 to get the lvl30 version of it?
    You'd get the new level 20 version I believe and then use additional materials to upgrade it to 30 if you want that one instead.

  11. #11
    Community Member WarDestroyer's Avatar
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    my 2 cents: you have previously stated that heroic raids are no-go due to overlevel farms, but if the new Legendary S/S/S items are any good this is precisely what's gonna happen

  12. #12
    Community Member DANTEIL's Avatar
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    You will be able to crunch unused seals, scrolls, and shards down into some amount of Pack Ingredients of the appropriate type.
    As someone who has XX number of seals, scrolls, and shards floating around my storage (I've maybe *once* gotten all 3 for the same item, plus the item itself), I'm interested in how many ingredients we get out of crunching them down.

  13. #13
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zess-wolf View Post
    No read again

    you get the same version you have (epic for example) - then with ingredients from saltmarsh (currently) you upgrade to lv.30
    ah, so if i craft it now, it will be "legacy epic item". if i craft it after the patch, it will be "new epic item"

    i can put "legacy epic item" into the stone of change to upgrade it to "new epic item"

    "new epic item" is then used to upgrade to "legendary item", aka lvl30 version

    correct?
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  14. #14
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    One of the biggest complaints about SSS is the inventory clutter you get from auto-collecting all the pieces. I'm worried that pack-specific currencies will just grandfather in the same issue. Is it really important that we grind Sands specifically for the mats to upgrade Sands gear?

    Would you consider updating the "guaranteed 20th mechanic" to something more forgiving like "guaranteed 5th" for Heroic raids? Part of the issue is just the time-gating involved in getting the base raid items. This is particularly acute for Sands, since you cant even use raid timers to accelerate the process, so a guaranteed 20th means minimum 60 calendar days of waiting without reincarnating. Alternatively, could you add them as rarer drops in non-raid quests within the same pack, the way Minor Artifacts can drop in any quest?

    TLDR: I want a Storm for my Inqui

    Along the same lines, will all the SSS pack quests be updated to standard modern drop rates, if they arent already? And I dont think they are, since named items are far more uncommon in content of that era.

  15. #15
    Uber Completionist rabidfox's Avatar
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    Legendary Storm...
    Legendary Torc...
    Legendary Helm of the Red Dragon...

    My brain is boggled by the amount of upcoming loot Tetris I'll be playing with this huge quantity of gear (in a good way).

  16. #16
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    Default 2 cents

    Want to start by saying this sounds encouraging, been waiting for 3 years for it, but better now than never.

    First point. Having universal ingredients will make this gear very much easier to get. I don't necessarily see that as good. Lv 20 epic gear is superfluous. Especially with the itemization overhaul of this patch. There is so much gear in game, that I want this gear to be significantly special, and therefore if this gear has enough improvement/cosmetic appeal to wear over other gear available, it should have a significant challenge to obtain. I think the location of the ingredient drop is good but I see a couple issues, I would like to see a way for people that don't have access to raids (choice, or difficulty) to be able to trade up maybe 10 normal tokens of twelve into a greater token, also re-implementing greater fragments into maybe epic elite dungeons as monster drops could also help with this. I think to add a bit to the difficulty I think the gear should drop from more specific chests, this will make those optionals in those quests important, don't need mirror cloak dropping in all 3 chests, or maybe reduce drop rate a little for the blue named items.

  17. #17
    Community Member ironmaiden-br's Avatar
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    cant be more happY !

    Nice move!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    One of the biggest complaints about SSS is the inventory clutter you get from auto-collecting all the pieces. I'm worried that pack-specific currencies will just grandfather in the same issue. Is it really important that we grind Sands specifically for the mats to upgrade Sands gear?

    Would you consider updating the "guaranteed 20th mechanic" to something more forgiving like "guaranteed 5th" for Heroic raids? Part of the issue is just the time-gating involved in getting the base raid items. This is particularly acute for Sands, since you cant even use raid timers to accelerate the process, so a guaranteed 20th means minimum 60 calendar days of waiting without reincarnating. Alternatively, could you add them as rarer drops in non-raid quests within the same pack, the way Minor Artifacts can drop in any quest?

    TLDR: I want a Storm for my Inqui

    Along the same lines, will all the SSS pack quests be updated to standard modern drop rates, if they arent already? And I dont think they are, since named items are far more uncommon in content of that era.
    If they give us raid runes for the base raid items for Von, Chronoscope, and ADQ to move them into the current modern system please and thank you. I do not see it stated anywhere that they will but they should take the time to implement it before u50 goes live. And we get proposed quest pack runes to upgrade things all that gear should be reasonably obtainable regardless of your tr status.

  19. #19
    Community Member Seph1roth5's Avatar
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    Keen - Plenty of people are going to be mad about this one. Many of the old raid/legendary gear had the extra weapon dice from keen being a major part of it. Fort bypass is a neat idea but only on a vorpal...really need to scale this since Keen goes 1-5(I think?) Maybe make that scale too, so at keen 5 it bypasses fort on a crit, whatever that # is?


    Clickies - I like how the spells have been beefed up, summon 9, polar ray, meteor swarm, etc. But I don't think clickies use your spell power or DCs or anything do they, unless you're an artificer in a specific core?
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  20. #20
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    So conceptually this is brilliant, and the execution I've seen so far on Lamland takes it even further. I guess the only real question about the overall approach is the item turn-in rate, and if the drop rates of mats is as high as indicated (relative to cost), I don't even care if the turn-in is stingy.

    Some specifics:

    - Set bonuses on the Vault loot is phenomenal. Not only does it give those items identity and meaning that can compete with current lvl 30 gear BUT it also achieves the very thing I found most disappointing about Feywild loot: a genuine set of choices for optimal layouts, not just Sharn. The Sharn sets are still over-packed but if I want to go a different direction and use a combination of smaller set bonuses there are now enough options to pick up all the right bonuses (though it takes more items - balancing the flexibility of mix'n'match).
    - Updated itemisation for Vault makes me optimistic for Sands stuff - looks like more radiance and insightful stats being thrown around for example
    - As mentioned earlier, sets on Red Fens appear incomplete
    - Super-specific: The Kundurak Delving set has a few issues. The item bonus is listed as being much weaker than other sets. The items themselves need a pass, as Spot/Search are found on two of the three, when you need all of them for the bonus. Could it be any two items of the three (for a more modest bonus)? Or swap Sport/Search for some Deception or Sheltering (seems thematic?)

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