The current state of MMORPGs

[Oxarhamar]

Should have played Souls games if you wanted to be able to kill NPCs. ;-)

Or UO

[Weemadarthur]

I never played it. Wish I had based on your description of it as "better than Tera".

Sorry for the off topic here but just wanted to mention if you were interested in having a look at Vindictus it is still going and has a reasonably steady die hard playerbase (about half the size of DDO's by my best guess). It's completely F2P with the game running on sales of cosmetics and end game grind alleviation only. I should also mention that although I prefer the combat system of Vindictus over Terra that is purely a personal opinion and I want to emphasize that I don't think Vindictus was a better game overall.

I will also like to expand on something I alluded to in my previous post and that is although Vindictus has a great combat system it also suffers with the game being way to easy for way too long (which wasn't always the case) so unfortunately it won't get to really shine until you reach somewhere near end game. From level 1-100 you can pretty much complete every quest by just spamming the left mouse button. With that in mind if you do give it a go try and have a good look at how combat is supposed to work (and does in level 100+ content) rather than how it actually works for the majority of the game. You will still be able to get an idea of how its supposed to work by performing combos and dodging and weaving even if the mob did die with the 1st hit rather than you actually having to utilize those abilities and skills to accomplish the kill.

[fatherpirate]

That really doesn’t make it sound any better

Don’t forget the fatigue wearing an off balance googles

VR would do better in something like a lightweight full motorcycle helmet at least it would be balanced but then it would have to be sized to the individual instead of once size fits most adjustable strap madness cutting into your dome

Even when it’s better it won’t kill Console or PC anytime soon

How many players play DDO in 1st person? I doubt it’s many even for ranged which can play very much like a FPS being in 1st person instead of 3rd is extremely inconvenient in so many ways

A lot of VR players (including myself) add weight to the back of the headset to balance it
out. Sounds counterintuitive, but it works and makes it easier to use. Very important to
me since I am a VR Beta tester. Yes, it has a ways to go, but it is new and it takes
a while to get new tech up and running correctly.

Who plays in first person? only a few folks who have multiple
screens. It does not help that you can not see your hands
in 1st person like most 1st person games allow.
(not sure why SSG choose not to show hands in 1st person,
not like it would be difficult to adjust the view to allow it)

but first person is >NOT< VR
not even close.

playing a PC golf game in 1st person is usually a nightmare,
playing a golf/putt putt game in VR is a breeze.
1st person and VR are completely different.

[Oxarhamar]

A lot of VR players (including myself) add weight to the back of the headset to balance it
out. Sounds counterintuitive, but it works and makes it easier to use. Very important to
me since I am a VR Beta tester. Yes, it has a ways to go, but it is new and it takes
a while to get new tech up and running correctly.

Who plays in first person? only a few folks who have multiple
screens. It does not help that you can not see your hands
in 1st person like most 1st person games allow.
(not sure why SSG choose not to show hands in 1st person,
not like it would be difficult to adjust the view to allow it)

but first person is >NOT< VR
not even close.

playing a PC golf game in 1st person is usually a nightmare,
playing a golf/putt putt game in VR is a breeze.
1st person and VR are completely different.

While 1st Person is not VR VR is in first person
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...017.00033/full
Snip ~ Current design of virtual reality (VR) applications relies essentially on the transposition of users’ viewpoint in first-person perspective

MMO players are for the most part playing in 3Rd person

You are right about one thing it’s got “a ways to go” a long way

Won’t be replacing Console or PC any time soon

Adding weighs might help balancing but that’s something that shouldn’t be done by the player & duct tape

A helmet is really much better but the big problem is it won’t be one size fits and would need sizing

They already have VR helmet for racing games and they are exponentially better than the strap on contraption

we will keep getting them strap on contraption via attempts to make them one size fits adjustable and cut down on cost. Having a better helmet style would require different sizes and increased cost

[Annex]

Should have played Souls games if you wanted to be able to kill NPCs. ;-)

Those games are about as far away from my desired world as one could possibly get but my brother enjoyed them. Also, I just want to kill Jeets. On all planes of the multiverse. With a spork. It needs to take a while and be really painful.

[Eantarus]

Those games are about as far away from my desired world as one could possibly get but my brother enjoyed them.

That's exactly how I feel. I hate twitch combat.

Also, I just want to kill Jeets. On all planes of the multiverse. With a spork. It needs to take a while and be really painful.

You get to kill him during the anniversary event, have you run it?

[Annex]

You get to kill him during the anniversary event, have you run it?

But I don't! I don't! The nasty little pipsqueek always lives! And Malicia calls him my "friend"! Oh my gosh! She's such a shrew.

[myliftkk_v2]

As someone who has played 'role playing" games since zork & hitch hikers, then through wizardy1, ulitma1, etc ....
1st they have gotten easier to play
2nd they have gotten more 'flashy' & "pretty"
3rd it is practically impossible to make a game killing mistake forcing you to start all over

The first several RPGs were ruff on killing you off for anything at all ... type a wrong word - dead, step on the wrong square - dead, stand still too long - dead .....

So I expect that trend to continue, I mean why change a 45 year trend

now git off my lawn, says the guy shaking the cane & rocking the chair

It's hilarious that DDO'ers fear dying (and fear Dark Souls like it's Tiamat unleashed) and yet you're exactly right.

I died hundreds of times in the Zork series, and countless times in Zork III. Far more than I've died in years in multiples games combined this century.

[myliftkk_v2]

Those games are about as far away from my desired world as one could possibly get but my brother enjoyed them. Also, I just want to kill Jeets. On all planes of the multiverse. With a spork. It needs to take a while and be really painful.

Considering they implemented cosmetics, a mount, and nearly everything craftable in Elden Ring, From's games might be moving closer to your desires than you think. The world is still pretty dark, but the feature set they've moved to is next level for arpg and could easily support a D&D world inside it.

[PaddyMaxson]

The new generation of gamers want it all easy. Pffft.
In my day, we used our imaginations! (Text based games complete with typed command actions, Num-Pad for directions to move and learning the room descriptions to recognize a change...)
Our mediation was to the sound of the router loading up!

Now you kids want a paddle controller and reliable voip.

Haha, I don't know if I'd say newer MMOs/MMO-likes are easier or even less mentally taxing, per se, but the focus has shifted from having 30 abilities which each need their own button to doding red marks on the ground before the ability that's about to land where the red mark is goes off, which in a sense is its own type of difficulty....that's something I wouldn't trust DDO to do given how seemingly random its hurt boxes/lag spikes are

[Oxarhamar]

Haha, I don't know if I'd say newer MMOs/MMO-likes are easier or even less mentally taxing, per se, but the focus has shifted from having 30 abilities which each need their own button to doding red marks on the ground before the ability that's about to land where the red mark is goes off, which in a sense is its own type of difficulty....that's something I wouldn't trust DDO to do given how seemingly random its hurt boxes/lag spikes are

DDO already has this with circles I mean squares

[PaddyMaxson]

DDO already has this with circles I mean squares

Even beyond the fact that the visible circles are mechanical squares I'd accuse DDO of being a wee bit visually busy/bad at defining boundaries.

Trap hitboxes are especially egregious, and I'm not sure if it's that the hit boxes are too large, whether they don't line up with the animations timing-wise or if it's just lag...I'm wondering if this is part of why traps are much less prevelant in newer content.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I'm just glad DDO has no floating question marks over NPC heads - or exclamation marks.

There is nothing more awful than that.

I'm okay with doors blinking on the map to indicate quest entrances - but only when the quest is actually selected within the quests window/list. Otherwise it it just grey. I'm so glad that neither Turbine nor SSG decided to put visual land marks to quest entrances within the game itself.

I find big visual markers within the game itself totally immersion breaking - and leading to laziness, too.

I grw up with games having no markers at all. Finding out and exploring, that was still a thing back then, and was one aspect of RPGs.