8th past life and why I quit DDO(again)

[Titus Ovid]

Do you own any other content than sagas? You can get to lvl 20 without doing any sagas or repeat any quest. It gets difficult in epics to lvl 34 without sagas and only doing quests. But you have some excellent wilderness to cover that.
So something is not adding up.

Cheers,
Titus

 

[justin credible]

Bro, I'm not an elite player lol. I joined a Dryad and the Demigod raid on r1 led by the best tank on my server just yesterday, and got obliterated because my DPS was not there (along with everyone else's DPS, to be fair). We eventually dropped to Hard and had a great time. If I were an elite superplayer I would've done better, but I didn't care, I just liked playing the damn game and was happy I had a group to do the raid.

I've spent money on the game, but I have NO idea how you spent 1.2k on two accounts and still don't have IoD, myth D, and lammy. That's just not computing to me. And if you have Vecna and Sharn you have the biggest old XP gap in the game covered. I don't understand how you're having to rerun sagas repeatedly to level, even without a greater tome of learning. I don't get it, and I'm not a maxxed out turbogrinder, I'm a 23rd life casual who's been playing slowly and fairly ineptly for years.

Don't even need to hold levels anymore if you have Vecna and the mid-level expacs. You can run around Vecna at 19 and get groups for it.

yeah but its sounds to me like he is getting stuck somewhere and if he's blaming it on not having level 7,8 content, im guessing its in the 9-10 range

either that or he is running ravenloft/gianthold saga over and over again at level 17, 18

he doesnt specify

 

[Solarpower]

after I've spent well over $600 now on my account

After you've spent $600 you should have enough content to only run each of the quests once without any need for the Sagas !
There is no need for the 2-3 latest expansions either.

the worst MMO design logic I have ever seen in my entire life

Well, that's how DDO devs make money. You need more quests to get more XP and the devs sell it to you.
I could understand if you tried to stay "pure" F2P and complained about how hard it was. But you've spend $600 and still don't have enough content ?! What did you buy ? 500 cosmetic robes and a pet ?

Game needs to be more accessible to casual people.

It is.
It can be more cheap, sure. But you can perfectly play it casually.
Even more, due to DDO's nature, you can literally drop out for month-year-several years, came back and simply continue form the point you've left. No other MMOs let you do it, you either play 24/7/365 or you are going to miss out on thousands of events, items, and other content.

 

[Pano]

There are thousands of perfectly valid reasons to stop playing DDO. The heroic XP curve just doesn't strike me as one of the better ones.

As I understand it, the original design was actually pretty sensible. Your first life was "Congratulations, you've discovered why every veteran says not to follow prebuild paths." Your second life was "Excellent, now fix whatever eldritch horror you accidentally created." After that, you were expected to know roughly what you were doing, and the XP curve reflected that.

Then SSG introduced the reduced XP requirement for the first eight lives as a catch-up mechanic. The unintended side effect seems to be that people now treat those first eight discounted lives as the normal experience, and life nine feels like someone from the Ministry of Heroic Reincarnation appears with a clipboard and informs you that the introductory offer has expired.

The 1-8 lives XP curve is discounted not the other way around

 

[axemania]

yeah but its sounds to me like he is getting stuck somewhere and if he's blaming it on not having level 7,8 content, im guessing its in the 9-10 range

either that or he is running ravenloft/gianthold saga over and over again at level 17, 18

he doesnt specify

9-10 range should at least have shadow crypt...sorrowdusk isn't great exp by 8th life but some of the older stuff is totally doable and decent EXP. Stromvauld's mine, stormcleave, don't REALLY need the pit but it's learnable, shadow crypt groups are fairly regular. then just jump into Barovia.

Something isn't adding up.

 

[Solarpower]

9-10 range should at least have shadow crypt

Tangleroot (the last quests), 3BC, ToEE, Necro 2, Threnal, VoN, Red Fens, Restless Isles, Demon Sands, Slave Lords, WPM, Hunter and Hunted, IoD, Lamordia + F2P quests.
There are plenty in 9-10 range.
Most of that stuff were given away with the codes. At least 4 times, since the OP said they've started in 2023.
By now, they should have enough content to level up in Heroics without taking any Sagas XP reward, yet he claimed he even need to redo the same Saga...
Either someone is lying here, or there's a complete misunderstanding of how the game works and what needs to be purchased. And $600 wasted on who knows what on top of that.

 

[OG DM]

The doubling up on XP needed is an irritant they will keep leaning into because it makes money several different ways. Every new progression system does not reset on any other type of reincarnation, so if you want first time reaper bonus or big reaper XP at cap, you will need to heroic, racial, or iconic reincarnate again to reset it all.

The "gargle 50% XP pots while zerging on high speed-bonus characters" crowd will tell you its a non issue. The "pay my way through everything" audience will also deride any complaint against the system, because if the irritant is removed, there was no reason to pay to bypass it and thats just what they did in part and in some cases in full.

What's the answer? Smooth Jazz TRs. With no pressure to complete ASAP due to that pesky XP potion being a ticking clock constantly reminding you of how you need to buy more of them if you take too long, you can break every barrel, get every trap, kill every mob, and learn the inside and out of every quest. Pipe in some Stan Getz through the Kenwoods and take a few extra minutes to clear it all. XP per quest is similar to zerging with a XP potion but not doing the entire quest, and that play style is a heck of alot more enjoyable than XP per minute questing is. It also causes less conflicts, and less burn out.

 

[Blaster]

So you spend all this money and don't own all the content? The expansions were just on sale a couple weeks ago, and will be again for Black Friday and most likely Christmas, just as they have been since you started playing.

You don't have to buy the ultimate editions to get access to the content. Just buy the base editions. You don't need all that extra cr@p. You can also access the content by buying it for points in the in-game store. Points you can accumulate while playing the game (in addition being a VIP allots you 500 points a month).

Pro tip here: you don't need to run all the content to level. Remember, there was a time in the game when all the expansions you mention did not exist, and yet players leveled just fine without them. I haven't run heroic versions of Isle of Dread, Feywild, or many content packs in a long time because I don't need the XP and I don't need the gear. (Though I do run it at legendary for first time reaper bonuses.)

You've been around long enough for all the free content codes, and that along with some cheap older expansion packs can easily get you through heroics as long as you're running elite or higher. (Honestly anything less is a waste of time.) And you don't have to be "elite" to do that. Unless your toon is totally busted all to hell you can get through the heroic game with rando weapons and gear. (Again, people did/do this all the time in the old hardcore days or modern flacidcore.)

Why do you care what other people have on their toons? You feel the need to validate yourself by comparing what you have to them? If so, that must be a sad existence. Who cares what they have? Do what you do and play the game they way you want to play. Comparing yourself to others is a waste of time, energy, and what precious little life you have on this rotten earth.

Casual players are all over the place, on all servers. I have toons on all the servers and have run across all kinds of players on them. There's tools you can use like discords, the message boards, and pugs to find people who play more at your speed. The only thing preventing you from finding "your people" is you.

In any case it doesn't matter. You're leaving, and honestly no one is going to miss you. They might miss playing with you, but they got along fine without you before you started playing and will get along fine without you when you stop playing. That's just how it is. So enjoy your five minutes in the spotlight, collect your flowers, take a bow, and exit stage left, because the rest of the show must go on.

 

[Bjond]

IMHO, the slow ramp up to full penalty is perhaps not as kind as it sounded originally. Most of us played when it hit full on your 3rd life. So, we got used to full penalty very quickly.

However, I do also think that limits on heroic leveling are not a good thing for the game. There are so many racial and heroic lives to acquire that many coming in late will look at that mountain and simply pass on it.

Heroic and Racial PLs need a skip for whales and an acceleration for everyone else. No 3-day limit and perhaps double acquisition (Heroic and Racial in one life). Get people focused on Epic and Legendary. The only heroic/racial lives that should be slow are the most recent released ones.

 

[Igognito]

IMHO, the slow ramp up to full penalty is perhaps not as kind as it sounded originally. Most of us played when it hit full on your 3rd life. So, we got used to full penalty very quickly.

However, I do also think that limits on heroic leveling are not a good thing for the game. There are so many racial and heroic lives to acquire that many coming in late will look at that mountain and simply pass on it.

Heroic and Racial PLs need a skip for whales and an acceleration for everyone else. No 3-day limit and perhaps double acquisition (Heroic and Racial in one life). Get people focused on Epic and Legendary. The only heroic/racial lives that should be slow are the most recent released ones.

I personally enjoy the reincarnation concept but don't like the x3 aspect of it. I'm in my 7th life and I'm targeting for simple completionist.
I do have also 7+ epic reincarnations. ERs are easier especially because you can easily do 2 per life. You get equipped at 20-21 and pass threw your Epic life up to 30 no issues. Then for ER back and maybe for 1 level you suffer until you get back to your 21 items.

When I start with iconic it will be 15 and 21 and get some TRs done .
Anyhow, catch up mechanisms are needed but perhaps should be discussed on a different thread.

 

[axemania]

IMHO, the slow ramp up to full penalty is perhaps not as kind as it sounded originally. Most of us played when it hit full on your 3rd life. So, we got used to full penalty very quickly.

However, I do also think that limits on heroic leveling are not a good thing for the game. There are so many racial and heroic lives to acquire that many coming in late will look at that mountain and simply pass on it.

Heroic and Racial PLs need a skip for whales and an acceleration for everyone else. No 3-day limit and perhaps double acquisition (Heroic and Racial in one life). Get people focused on Epic and Legendary. The only heroic/racial lives that should be slow are the most recent released ones.

3-day limit is mostly an impediment to people who play a lot daily and are really fast at grinding iconic lives. Which IS the fastest way to get heroic lives as well, to be fair.

Racial lives are a slog, but I don't have a solution that doesn't consist of massively restructuring how the very concept works. The ramping bonuses mean you'd have to rebuild the system or it'd just become a shortcut to power.

 

[warioman91]

I'm confused. The OP bought races, classes, etc instead of expansions?
And he is also running content on Hard? Not elite? Ok reaper is not for everyone but Elite should be doable even for the most casual player.
Still, assuming only f2p content not even packs you should be getting to lvl 15 (for first lifer) with no problems. After it becomes tough because of the lack of f2p content. The next part is using the coupon for free content. Or buying some expo or spending ddos to get some content.
But to play 8 years and get to this wall I find it strange.
If you need help ask, the community is very helpful btw.

I am purposely running a 'f2p pure account' (like an ironman experience in a certain absurd way). Playing solo at the moment as well.

On your first life, you can absolutely get to level 20 without problems. Yes, I was pushing through N-H-E progression which meant repeated quests in that sense(never repeated a quest otherwise). I also was actively using a wide spread of quests to work through(of various levels and difficulties) so as to not progress difficulty on the same quest within the same day--I was actively playing for the Daily XP Bonus on quests.

But when I hit 20, there were about 140 quest completions(of that n-h-e progression) I had 'skipped' over for the time being(come back later for favor) because either there was better xp options or the quests in question... were those 'boring running'(The Enemy Within, Acid Wit, The Spawn of Whisperdoom) quests that are better done with mobility(monk's abundant step for me) options or easy clear damage at higher level.
That 140 number means 140/3= 47 quests that I skipped over.

Now to be clear, on my first life, I picked up a few packs from the DDO points you easily get on your first toon on a server as well as using the quick points of fresh toons on other servers ---- Catacombs, Reaver's Reach, and Soul Splitter(this last one was on sale for cheap recently)--also got Shan-to-Kor at the end of the life for extra favor(1700 total).
When I hit 20, I hadn't even finished out Elite on Reaver's Reach(end bosses are pretty tough on elite) and had only run Soul Splitter on Normal.

Any f2p player should be getting Lvl 3-4 Catacombs(95 points) and Lvl 17 Reaver's Reach(250) on their first life. High Favor to Point ratio, and Reaver's Reach is MASSIVE experience....and it's 'epic'. If I didn't get Soul Splitter on discount + StK as an addon, there were some backup options like Reign of Madness(450), etc.

Anyway regarding the OP, I think the whole thing seems strange, and yet here I am planning for the hard route of f2p account(I have a spreadsheet of lives planned out in advance)

Life 1: Catacombs, Reaver's Reach, Soul Splitter, Shan-to-Kor 1700 favor(total to farm)

Life 2: Ruins of Threnal 1800 favor

Life 3: Necropolis, Part 3 1900 favor

Life 4: Path of Inspiration 2000 favor

Life 5: Three Barrel Cove 2100 favor

Life 6: Saving for Greater Tome of Learning
Life 7: Saving for Greater Tome of Learning
Life 8: Buy Greater Tome of Learning

9: Sentinels of Stormreach 2200
10: Sorrowdusk Isle 2300
11: Ruins of Gianthold 2500
...
It really starts to build here from the compounding investments.
But uh, yeah no.... Bank....til life 20 planned lol....hehhahahah *clown noises*

 

[paddymaxson]

I do agree that the XP for heroic lives shouldn't double, even after 7 lives and I am a racial completionist with a fair few classes with 3 lives, so I've dealt with it so I'm all for just getting rid of it for newer players. I'd be thrilled if this changed to normal XP for 12 lives, or 24, or all of them, even if I got no benefit from it.

But.....if you've spent $1200 on your wife's account man you should've bought some EXP pots with that cash, that's a lot of cash to spend and seemingly not be aware of how the game works!

I'm sorry this put OP off the game but well, reincarnation is a lot of the game.

 

[axemania]

I am purposely running a 'f2p pure account' (like an ironman experience in a certain absurd way). Playing solo at the moment as well.

On your first life, you can absolutely get to level 20 without problems. Yes, I was pushing through N-H-E progression which meant repeated quests in that sense(never repeated a quest otherwise). I also was actively using a wide spread of quests to work through(of various levels and difficulties) so as to not progress difficulty on the same quest within the same day--I was actively playing for the Daily XP Bonus on quests.

But when I hit 20, there were about 140 quest completions(of that n-h-e progression) I had 'skipped' over for the time being(come back later for favor) because either there was better xp options or the quests in question... were those 'boring running'(The Enemy Within, Acid Wit, The Spawn of Whisperdoom) quests that are better done with mobility(monk's abundant step for me) options or easy clear damage at higher level.
That 140 number means 140/3= 47 quests that I skipped over.

Now to be clear, on my first life, I picked up a few packs from the DDO points you easily get on your first toon on a server as well as using the quick points of fresh toons on other servers ---- Catacombs, Reaver's Reach, and Soul Splitter(this last one was on sale for cheap recently)--also got Shan-to-Kor at the end of the life for extra favor(1700 total).
When I hit 20, I hadn't even finished out Elite on Reaver's Reach(end bosses are pretty tough on elite) and had only run Soul Splitter on Normal.

Any f2p player should be getting Lvl 3-4 Catacombs(95 points) and Lvl 17 Reaver's Reach(250) on their first life. High Favor to Point ratio, and Reaver's Reach is MASSIVE experience....and it's 'epic'. If I didn't get Soul Splitter on discount + StK as an addon, there were some backup options like Reign of Madness(450), etc.

Anyway regarding the OP, I think the whole thing seems strange, and yet here I am planning for the hard route of f2p account(I have a spreadsheet of lives planned out in advance)

Life 1: Catacombs, Reaver's Reach, Soul Splitter, Shan-to-Kor 1700 favor(total to farm)

Life 2: Ruins of Threnal 1800 favor

Life 3: Necropolis, Part 3 1900 favor

Life 4: Path of Inspiration 2000 favor

Life 5: Three Barrel Cove 2100 favor

Life 6: Saving for Greater Tome of Learning
Life 7: Saving for Greater Tome of Learning
Life 8: Buy Greater Tome of Learning

9: Sentinels of Stormreach 2200
10: Sorrowdusk Isle 2300
11: Ruins of Gianthold 2500
...
It really starts to build here from the compounding investments.
But uh, yeah no.... Bank....til life 20 planned lol....hehhahahah *clown noises*

Also the annual code fives you all of that stuff but the tomes for free...

I will point out here that you are likely a seasoned player based on how you are speaking of your pure FTP experience, which means you are patient and good at looking for/waiting for sales, know what is most efficient, have already planned things out for efficiency, and are willing to do the grind for the experience of doing the grind. The average new player is nothing like that, and WILL find the game inconvenient.

Bottom line, DDO is a pay for convenience game. You can play for free. You can, with certain delays in content access, get the entire game for free. (though, if you don't have a good idea of what you're doing and/or don't have much patience, that certainly is difficult!). But the devs gotta eat, and server space costs money, as does buying 4 new servers and setting them up and organizing a massive transfer of characters with banked items and stuff in their TR caches and on and on and on, and keeping customer support up (I have actually gotten timely responses from customer support, they do exist and do do their jobs), and fixing bugs, and running preview streams and a beta test server and so on.

IG my position is that I don't necessarily object to the increasing grind once you're committed to the game. By 8th life you should either have figured out what you need to speed up leveling, and bought it with favor DDO points, or shelled out for a few purchases. Maybe you even whaled on an expac ultimate edition, or bought a sub. All of that WILL increase your convenience, of course. But at the same time, you don't technically HAVE to buy anything with real money, and the absolute most the average player should be shelling out is 40 bucks every 6-9 months for a new expansion pack, maybe 20 bucks or so to get a tome of learning and some other goodies if you can't stand grinding content or are new enough to the game that you aren't able to grind it efficiently.

tl;dr I think it's unfair to expect a new player to know and have patience for the optimal way to grind favor for maximum DDO point gains, but also OP has clearly missed some really obvious ways to make his experience more convenient and probably even missed some flat out handouts from the devs. 600 bucks per account and not having all the content after multiple years of all non-expac content being handed out for free, and sales with the expacs being discounted heavily, just does not compute to me. Much less having so little content that he has to repeat sagas multiple times to level. The math just isn't mathing.

 

[justin credible]

What did you buy ? 500 cosmetic robes and a pet ?

you were right

Let's do some math:

Feywild + saltmarsh+Vecna+drannor+the ultimate bundles version

 

[in4theride75]

Let's do some math:
3 years vip that is about $360, just about $120 a year.
Feywild + saltmarsh+Vecna+drannor+the ultimate bundles version + RL&MMoS = about 400 per account so my math was wrong im actually around $1400 in total.
Thanks everyone for being bad at math. You only try hard on DDO come on lol .

This admission makes your point worse off. If you own all that content you have access to 7.7 million heroic xp, without any saga turn ins for xp and without xp elixirs, and you are struggling to get 3.8 million without repeating quests.
You own enough content you can go 2 lives in a row without repeating a quest with a bit left over.

 

[Ebondevil]

Masterminds of Sharn: 2,495 points

And run some of the Vale of Twilight quests

XP increase used to cap out for the 3rd life, and it made sense cause FtP could open progressively higher difficulties and earn more exp as a result, to where it currently is. This is how it was when I started, currently on my 37th and 34th life's (2 accounts), and been slowly working on them, I don't use Otto's boxes or XP pots, I don't repeat the same quest (do re-run some raids at cap though).

They've since made it easier to help people catch up.

This might also be worth a look: https://ddowiki.com/page/Experience_point#"Art"_of_gaining_XP

There's SO much XP available, it's hard to imagine how you're not getting enough.

Run Heroic Quests within 2 levels of the base on Reaper 1 for maximum xp.

Insert reminiscence about FtP needing to get a Sigil every 4 levels to continue leveling...

Mutter "Back in the Day we had to walk up hill in the snow, you people have it so easy now"

 

[TedSandyman]

ALL CONTENT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO VIP SUBSCRIBERS.

I agree, but I don't think this is financially possible. And for them to charge enough to make it financially viable, I don't think many people would pay that amount. I personally think VIP is a ripoff. But people seem to like it, so to each their own. Don't pay it if you don't think it is worth it.

 

[TedSandyman]

I didn't know they changed it from the 3rd past life. It used to go up after 1 and 2 not 4 and 7.

So, you think you're mad now, you would REALLY have been mad back in the day.

This just isn't a casual players game. It hasn't been for a very long time.

There is no interest in making it easy for new people or for keeping people who are not hard core.

And to be fair, there are not a whole lot of new players to make it very appealing financially to do so.

And before some of you get all upset, yes, there ARE new players. Yes, there ARE casual players, but the numbers are low and the money they bring in is nothing compared to the whale/otto box crowd.

And that is just a fact, not my opinion. SSG follows the money, as they probably should if they want to keep the lights on.

I would prefer a world of first lifers and easy XP. I love hardcore specifically because there are lots of people, working together, all at the same power level. I would love to lead a group of new players around and point out optionals and traps and, occasionally get dungeon wipes, because someone did something silly. I would love a world where there are all levels, not just the R10 crowd. But that isn't DDO anymore. The low to moderate skill players have been forced out or solo mostly. I am one of those moderate skill players who mostly solos. I have been here 15+ years and still don't have ALL of the past lives. I just enjoy each life. I try something different and see how it works. Run it up the 30, then TR and try something new. Some are better than others, but I never care about getting them all. I care about enjoying them all.

 

[Bjond]

What happens at 8th past life? I didn't know they changed it from the 3rd past life.

They spread the old 1-2-3 step into a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7; basically 7 (or 8?) is the new 3. I didn't pay any attention after learning they didn't change the maximums.