A discussion on the Drow

[Johnthrell]

I wanted to start a discussion on a subject that is as near and dear to me as Clerics are to me...to set the conversatiion, when I was playing tabletop rpg a long time ago, I made a fighter in what became Mystara, that fighter was a dark elf fighter, which is now known as the Drow, and I liked this character so much, I felt bad the campaign ended.
Now that I am in DDO, I was beyond ecstatic that the drow was an option when creating a character. While I am a little disappointed that the Drow is not covered in the 32 point build, which in my personal opinion, is because of their bonuses to Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma at the cost of Constitution, it is still a good option to make a build as I made not only a Drow fighter, but I made a Drow Artificer as well, and while both are still in their single digit levels since i only started in DDO roughly a month ago, both hold their own real well in action.
So this discussion is not only to talk about the Drow, but to suggest possible builds for them, especially as the Drow do have the extra option of a deity in Vulkoor, which helps if you want a shortsword as a favored weapon, since the Drow are already proficient in shortswords. Thank you for reading this, and I hope we have a good time talking about this as well.

 

[AlimonyJFMSU]

Drow look cool. But for me, the lack of 32 point build was disappointing. Especially since their stat bonuses were not really very useful to me.

 

[norriskwondo]

I wanted to start a discussion on a subject that is as near and dear to me as Clerics are to me...to set the conversatiion, when I was playing tabletop rpg a long time ago, I made a fighter in what became Mystara, that fighter was a dark elf fighter, which is now known as the Drow, and I liked this character so much, I felt bad the campaign ended.
Now that I am in DDO, I was beyond ecstatic that the drow was an option when creating a character. While I am a little disappointed that the Drow is not covered in the 32 point build, which in my personal opinion, is because of their bonuses to Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma at the cost of Constitution, it is still a good option to make a build as I made not only a Drow fighter, but I made a Drow Artificer as well, and while both are still in their single digit levels since i only started in DDO roughly a month ago, both hold their own real well in action.
So this discussion is not only to talk about the Drow, but to suggest possible builds for them, especially as the Drow do have the extra option of a deity in Vulkoor, which helps if you want a shortsword as a favored weapon, since the Drow are already proficient in shortswords. Thank you for reading this, and I hope we have a good time talking about this as well.

Don't expect any changes in them from SSG. Just looking at how DDO speced drow, I find them best suited for bard, rogue, and I heard some like them for monk. I had really good succcess running drow as a warlock. In that, I think they'd make a good sorcerer as well.

 

[Blaster]

Captain Obvious here: DDO isn't tabletop.

Additionally, Drow are excluded from standard build points because they get +2 bumps to three ability scores, unlike the standard one ability (or +1 to two abilities the Duergar get or +2 to STR and CHA that Dragonborn get).

They're a versatile race if you can build worth a cr@p. If you can't make them work for a build, that's on you.

 

[Tumideon]

I think it's about time that you can do a 36pt build on a Drow, the cap was a relic of a bygone era, +2 stats hardly makes much of a difference when you can be sitting at 100+ at end game with the right combination of gearing, enhancements, and sentience/fillys let alone extra potions and what not.

I forget if it was Gamescon or the Producer's Letter/Roadmap, but aren't they doing a cosmetic pass on them? Hopefully that comes with some updates on the Racial Tree and taking that stupid point cap off of them.

The other issue is that now we have FR and Eberron versions of them, maybe we'll see a Wood Elf-like split where you can have more cosmetically/religiously-aligned FR Drow versus Eberron Drow when it comes to deity and favored weapons. A FR Drow with Lloth as a Deity to give Repeater/Crossbow FW would be really slick for a Harper Inqui or pure Arti.

At the minimum, it would be nice to get +Racial SR per level, even if it was clumped that you get +6 every 5 levels and have some core consolidation on it. The SR is hardly meaningful during heroics let alone legendaries, just like DR it seems SR has fallen way off the power curve that it hardly matters to slot it. At least to me.

The free Imbue is nice, that can stick around along with the Imbue toggle, despite Poison being pretty useless (and 1d4?). And just like other trees (Inqui and maybe some Rogue trees?) SSG should replace Nothing is Hidden to give the Epic feat Watchful Eye instead, could have some interesting synergy with Shiradi Champion to pickup the extra +5% D-Shot. Make it cost 2 RAP instead of 3 RAP to get as well.

 

[Honkin]

I'm going to butcher this, but 3.5e was the first rulebook I read so hopefully this is close. The way that Drow are handled in DDO is a relic of the 3.5e era. You can see this 3.5 method of attributes with all of the original races, because they have a -2 to one or more attributes to counterbalance the bonuses they get to other attributes.

I think these largely went away in 4e. There's been a larger trend in 5e to instead give +1 to multiple attributes instead of a +2 to a single attribute so that your race has less of an influence on your ability to play your class. For example, from 5e Duergar:

Ability Score Increase. When determining your character’s ability scores, increase one score by 2 and increase a different score by 1, or increase three different scores by 1. You can't raise any of your scores above 20.

It would be really nice to see that go away, and get more flexibility with all the races (including drow), but I expect that would require an overhaul of character creation which is one of the oldest parts of the codebase.

EDIT: and before anyone says, "this is DDO, not P&P", those mechanic decisions definitely determine the leeway that SSG gets from WotC/Hasbro. You can see it over the past decade as newer mechanics from tabletop have creeped into DDO.

 

[norriskwondo]

Captain Obvious here: DDO isn't tabletop.

Additionally, Drow are excluded from standard build points because they get +2 bumps to three ability scores, unlike the standard one ability (or +1 to two abilities the Duergar get or +2 to STR and CHA that Dragonborn get).

They're a versatile race if you can build worth a cr@p. If you can't make them work for a build, that's on you.

What you say is true. The only drawback, I don't think you can't get to 18 on CON when you build. if that is the case, I don't think 2 con points will make that much of a difference. But what you get in place of is more than worth it. CHA adds to so many skills that people don't focus on building, that are nice when you need them. And the extra INT adds in getting skill points. And all the elf race enhancements are always worth it.

 

[FaceDancer]

I hope the Drow changes go more than just skin-deep. If they're going to keep the starting 28 point build, the final point progression should be 34 (that 4 point drop at the end is not nice). They don't really have a bump @ champion level, so really they should go 28/30/32/34.

Plus I have some Drow lives coming up, so sooner than later would be good!

 

[norriskwondo]

I hope the Drow changes go more than just skin-deep. If they're going to keep the starting 28 point build, the final point progression should be 34 (that 4 point drop at the end is not nice). They don't really have a bump @ champion level, so really they should go 28/30/32/34.

Plus I have some Drow lives coming up, so sooner than later would be good!

That's true, but I believe that is due to getting a +2 in CHA and INT. The other races don't get such a bump in abilities

 

[FaceDancer]

That's true, but I believe that is due to getting a +2 in CHA and INT. The other races don't get such a bump in abilities

Don't forget that Drow also have a -2 Con. They also get a +2 Dex I believe as well. My $.02 is cut the Int +2.

 

[Jaspar]

Drow are brilliant options before you have 3 lives because they get +2 to 3 different stats and only a single -2. Any class/build which rely on Cha or Dex or Int are going to benefit, other than anything where you really need to stack HP.

Unfortunately the racial enhancements are incredibly old and focussed on weapons which barely anyone uses any more. Other than shuriken, but Im not sure new players should be playing shuri builds given the requirements to do well with them.

 

[norriskwondo]

Don't forget that Drow also have a -2 Con. They also get a +2 Dex I believe as well. My $.02 is cut the Int +2.

Although INT doesn't seem important to melee classes, it is vital for caster classes, even those that are WIS and CHA based for the same reason it should be more vital to melee classes. INT gives more skill pionts at level ups and creation. More skill points allows for better performance and outcomes in various forms like a higher jump, and more success in search, spot, and UMD

 

[norriskwondo]

Although INT doesn't seem important to melee classes, it is vital for caster classes, even those that are WIS and CHA based for the same reason it should be more vital to melee classes. INT gives more skill points at level ups and creation. More skill points allows for better performance and outcomes in various forms like a higher jump, and more success in search, spot, and UMD

I know spot is WIS

 

[SecretPhiarlanMan]

Int is important to rogue builds that really on KtA and a splash into Harper tree, with bonuses to traps. Not as important in Modern DDO, but for a while, it was a useful side build that the Drow fit into beautifully with the bonus to Dex as well.

 

[norriskwondo]

Int is important to rogue builds that really on KtA and a splash into Harper tree, with bonuses to traps. Not as important in Modern DDO, but for a while, it was a useful side build that the Drow fit into beautifully with the bonus to Dex as well.

exactly

 

[unbongwah]

Just be grateful that they implemented drow as a de facto 32-point race rather than adding the +2 level adjustment penalty from PnP.

That said, drow is definitely one of those races whose Enhancement tree could do with a touch-up. Right now it's pretty weak. Maybe they could add a critical range bonus to racial weapons like gnomes and dwarves get; or a poison immunity stripping ability so Venomed Blades is more useful.

 

[Ebondevil]

Don't forget that Drow also have a -2 Con. They also get a +2 Dex I believe as well. My $.02 is cut the Int +2.

Unlikely when their Racial Past Life gives +Int

 

[saekee]

Maybe they could add a critical range bonus to racial weapons like gnomes and dwarves get; or a poison immunity stripping ability so Venomed Blades is more useful.

great ideas! Lots of work needed in that tree--look at how weak ambidexterity is, and the higher-tier bonuses to using their weapons are only +1. The Darkfire SLA seems ok--I messed with it in heroics and really enjoyed it.

 

[l_remmie]

Drow have always been 32pts, you got drow before you got champion status. So you could enjoy a 32poins build character earlier. There was never any mystery there.
There is no need to change their stats.

There is plenty of need to update the racial tree though. All old raccial trees are just jokes compared to new ones.

 

[Owlbear]

There will be a Drow visual update in Q4 so who knows, maybe they will do some more for the racial option.