A few thought about dragonlord

[fitzabir]

I am currently playing Dragonlord at Canntih (lvl 26) and i noticed a few things:
1. the Dragonlord tree have 2 charge abilities ("Lead the charge" and "Flight of kings") that share a cooldown... what is that good for? the only explanation i can think of is that "Flight" is for movement only while "Lead" is for attacking. but in that case - why the shared cooldown? pretty annoying for a tree that to get to it's capstone you need to fill it almost completely.
2. Dragonlord is all about tactical feats, especially Sunder. so the best suited tree for it in epics is Legendary Dreadnaught. but why oh why does the "Lead" ability also shares cooldown with "Dire Charge"?
maybe "Lead" is the heroic version and "dire Charge" is for epics, but its still kind of weird to get access to 3 charge abilities and only being able to use 1 at a time.
3. As i said, Dire charge is supposed to be the perfect ability for Dragonlord. you charge straight into battle with a greatsword, apply Trip + Sunder + Stun to all your enemies in an AOE, and since your tactical feats' DCs are so high that is a great win. but for some reason the chrage isn't synchronising with Dragonlord at all - you are supposed to get bonus damage on sunder attacks - but only from the Sunder / Improved Sunder feats and not from Dire Charge. and your Capstone, "Sunder Soul", should have a chance to destroy every sundered enemy - but not if it was sundered by your charge. I really can't understand this and i wish it would change.
* on a side note - I also think that if you spent an entire feat to get Improved Sunder, you dire charge should do that and not just regular Sunder.

 

[Archaic]

Actions taken by primarily melee based classes should never share a cool down in my opinion.
They should be there to add more flavor than point and click and limiting them keeps it hovering over the threshold of point and click.
Especially when game play is dominated by caster/nukers taking away these shared cool downs would help melee classes stay on par with their role other than as bait/tank/meat shield.

 

[Weaponalpha]

Yeah, I don't know why you can't use wings into range to then immediately use 2x charge attacks back to back... I haven't taken the Lead the Charge on my DL because if it's like the KotC attack it has weird animation and I get stuck in place for a while. Could just be my crappy computer but regardless found it annoying even though the attack itself was decent. Of the 3 I'll be using Dire Charge.

 

[Arsont]

Yeah, I don't know why you can't use wings into range to then immediately use 2x charge attacks back to back... I haven't taken the Lead the Charge on my DL because if it's like the KotC attack it has weird animation and I get stuck in place for a while. Could just be my crappy computer but regardless found it annoying even though the attack itself was decent. Of the 3 I'll be using Dire Charge.

It's odd if you can't use the wings and then at least Dire Charge. I'd be curious if the EA/Fvs wings share this interaction. I would have thought that the charges/dashes that require a target (Like the Kotc and DL charges) would all share one CD, and the general movement (Wings, Misty/Abundant Step, etc) all share another. Might need to make a bunch of iconics to test a couple of these out.

 

[The Blonde]

Great points OP.

 

[droid327]

Dire Charge sunder doesnt count as "sundered" for the capstone? Thats weird...I kinda expected that only the proper feat Sunder would apply the proc damage that's "when you use Sunder", but the capstone works on "enemies who are sundered", and I didnt think there was a difference between the Sundered effect applied by Sunder vs Dire Charge.

 

[fitzabir]

Dire Charge sunder doesnt count as "sundered" for the capstone? Thats weird...I kinda expected that only the proper feat Sunder would apply the proc damage that's "when you use Sunder", but the capstone works on "enemies who are sundered", and I didnt think there was a difference between the Sundered effect applied by Sunder vs Dire Charge.

no, apparently if you look on a mob that was sundered (or tripped, same thing) by Dire Charge you dont see the Sunder effect on him but something with the icon of Dire Charge that gives the same effect of Sunder but isn't actually sunder. I guess that also explains why you can't apply the benefit sof improved Sunder to it.
And that's exactly the thing that need to change...

 

[PersonMan]

no, apparently if you look on a mob that was sundered (or tripped, same thing) by Dire Charge you dont see the Sunder effect on him but something with the icon of Dire Charge that gives the same effect of Sunder but isn't actually sunder. I guess that also explains why you can't apply the benefit sof improved Sunder to it.
And that's exactly the thing that need to change...

This is definitely something that needs to be fixed. Sitting through 2 full sunder animations is just so rarely worthwhile for the capstone to work this way. I have also been noticing Sunder Soul losing its hurt box (not connecting with anything) and expect I am currently not allowed to WASD at all during its use.

 

[Elminster]

It doesn't matter; Steelstar will 1,000,000% nerf this class in subsequent updates.

Just enjoy it for what it is... and most importantly... don't get attached !

 

[Hobgoblin]

how does elminster get away with these blatant attacks on the devs? if i said that i would be banned so fast that it would be like that a movie where a guy shoots a hole in a plane

 

[Zvdegor]

I am currently playing Dragonlord at Canntih (lvl 26) and i noticed a few things:
1. the Dragonlord tree have 2 charge abilities ("Lead the charge" and "Flight of kings") that share a cooldown... what is that good for? the only explanation i can think of is that "Flight" is for movement only while "Lead" is for attacking. but in that case - why the shared cooldown? pretty annoying for a tree that to get to it's capstone you need to fill it almost completely.
2. Dragonlord is all about tactical feats, especially Sunder. so the best suited tree for it in epics is Legendary Dreadnaught. but why oh why does the "Lead" ability also shares cooldown with "Dire Charge"?
maybe "Lead" is the heroic version and "dire Charge" is for epics, but its still kind of weird to get access to 3 charge abilities and only being able to use 1 at a time.
3. As i said, Dire charge is supposed to be the perfect ability for Dragonlord. you charge straight into battle with a greatsword, apply Trip + Sunder + Stun to all your enemies in an AOE, and since your tactical feats' DCs are so high that is a great win. but for some reason the chrage isn't synchronising with Dragonlord at all - you are supposed to get bonus damage on sunder attacks - but only from the Sunder / Improved Sunder feats and not from Dire Charge. and your Capstone, "Sunder Soul", should have a chance to destroy every sundered enemy - but not if it was sundered by your charge. I really can't understand this and i wish it would change.
* on a side note - I also think that if you spent an entire feat to get Improved Sunder, you dire charge should do that and not just regular Sunder.

Dire Charge DC formula is: 20 + highest ability score + stun bonuses

At tier 1 in the tooltip is: 20 + highest ability score + sunder bonuses which is I believe a typo. Tooltip of tier 3 and 4 again 20 + highest ability score + stun bonuses.

Dire Charge never used sunder bonuses even if Tier 1 gives sunder effect.

IIRC

Maybe thats why Dire Charge does not trigger DL sunder effects cause it is a stun effect (code wise).

 

[h46av8r]

Since Tonquin was just recently looking at tactical DCs I pointed out this thread under Hey Tonquin - see https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/hey-tonquin.5072/page-65#post-107301

 

[Frantik]

I asked the question concerning Dire Charge and does it proc for DL back during the Lammania testing. It's either a major oversight by SSG or one thats been completely ignored on purpose. Its nonsensical in its present form.

 

[Frantik]

Dire Charge DC formula is: 20 + highest ability score + stun bonuses

At tier 1 in the tooltip is: 20 + highest ability score + sunder bonuses which is I believe a typo. Tooltip of tier 3 and 4 again 20 + highest ability score + stun bonuses.

Dire Charge never used sunder bonuses even if Tier 1 gives sunder effect.

IIRC

Maybe thats why Dire Charge does not trigger DL sunder effects cause it is a stun effect (code wise).

Yeah, but no, but yeah...

Dire Charge: (Melee Attack): Epic Strike: Deals +40% Damage. Rush forward at the targeted foe, attacking it and all nearby foes. Affected enemies must make a Fortitude save (20 + highest Ability Score + Sunder bonuses) or be Sundered. 12 second cooldown. (Note: also greatly slows the movement speed of enemies struck for ~2 seconds.)

and focus on the word "also"...

Momentum Swing: When you use your Legendary Dreadnought Epic Strike, enemies must now also make a Fortitude save or be Tripped. Trip DC is (20 + Highest Ability Score + bonuses to Stun).

 

[Almghandi]

how does elminster get away with these blatant attacks on the devs? if i said that i would be banned so fast that it would be like that a movie where a guy shoots a hole in a plane

"Elminster departs...."

Nowadays its just easier to jump over the wall before he opens the door.

 

[Zvdegor]

Yeah, but no, but yeah...

Dire Charge: (Melee Attack): Epic Strike: Deals +40% Damage. Rush forward at the targeted foe, attacking it and all nearby foes. Affected enemies must make a Fortitude save (20 + highest Ability Score + Sunder bonuses) or be Sundered. 12 second cooldown. (Note: also greatly slows the movement speed of enemies struck for ~2 seconds.)

and focus on the word "also"...

Momentum Swing: When you use your Legendary Dreadnought Epic Strike, enemies must now also make a Fortitude save or be Tripped. Trip DC is (20 + Highest Ability Score + bonuses to Stun).

I just double checked Tier 1 Dire Charge DC and it uses stun bonuses not sunder bonuses. I remember when SSG turned Dire Charge from Feat to Epic Strike (maybe update 51) it was in the relase notes/old forum/tooltip that Dire Charge uses only stun bonuses for the sunder effect too.
I believe the current T1 tooltip is a typo.

"also" is for the T2 and T3 effect it is nothing to do with he DC formula.

 

[Almghandi]

I believe the current T1 tooltip is a typo.

That would be nice

 

[Frantik]

I just double checked Tier 1 Dire Charge DC and it uses stun bonuses not sunder bonuses. I remember when SSG turned Dire Charge from Feat to Epic Strike (maybe update 51) it was in the relase notes/old forum/tooltip that Dire Charge uses only stun bonuses for the sunder effect too.
I believe the current T1 tooltip is a typo.

"also" is for the T2 and T3 effect it is nothing to do with he DC formula.

I underlined the "also" to relay exactly this; the basic Dire Charge is essentially a SUNDER ability.

 

[Zvdegor]

I underlined the "also" to relay exactly this; the basic Dire Charge is essentially a SUNDER ability.

No it is not. Sunder abilities use sunder bonuses. Dire Charge T1 uses stun bonuses (and always used) and was never a sunder ability. The T1 effect is sunder but it is still a stun ability.

The tooltip is wrong and confusing.

 

[Frantik]

No it is not. Sunder abilities use sunder bonuses. Dire Charge T1 uses stun bonuses (and always used) and was never a sunder ability. The T1 effect is sunder but it is still a stun ability.

The tooltip is wrong and confusing.

Look I hate to disagree, but if the effect is a sunder, then the ability is a sunder, nomatter what is used to calculate the DC, be it Stun, Sunder or whateverisinthetooltip. The original idea was why doesn't the basic Dire Charge sunder synergise for Dragon Lords; if it was a stun, we wouldn't be having this conversation, with all due respect.