A Glimpse Into Krynn
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Uska
Founder
Uska
Founder
you're very mean
The_Apocalypse
The Chosen One
I've mentioned my beefs with Dragonlance before
Best world/setting is Greyhawk, hands down. That's the place where all the NPCs are that made named spells (Bigby, Mordenkainen, Tenser, Melf, etc.). Greyhawk invented Drow and Demon Lords and Arch-devils and Vecna and Kas and cambion demons and.... (long list). It has the best modules (ToEE, Against the Giants, Expedition to the Demonweb [yes, Greyhawk invented the Demonweb], Queen of the Demonweb Pits, the Slavers series, White Plume Mountain, etc, etc...) and it had all the modules' exact locations that you could find on the maps. Greyhawk has the first named vampire, cambion demon, dragons (and dracolich), giants, etc. (well, the first named a lot of things). Plus, a unique pantheon that included most of the non-human gods.
Downside, for me, was the module that incorporated laser weapons and such from a crashed spaceship... yeah... I'm looking at you, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Suck it.
Anyways, sorry I went on about Greyhawk, hehe.
Best world/setting is Greyhawk, hands down. That's the place where all the NPCs are that made named spells (Bigby, Mordenkainen, Tenser, Melf, etc.). Greyhawk invented Drow and Demon Lords and Arch-devils and Vecna and Kas and cambion demons and.... (long list). It has the best modules (ToEE, Against the Giants, Expedition to the Demonweb [yes, Greyhawk invented the Demonweb], Queen of the Demonweb Pits, the Slavers series, White Plume Mountain, etc, etc...) and it had all the modules' exact locations that you could find on the maps. Greyhawk has the first named vampire, cambion demon, dragons (and dracolich), giants, etc. (well, the first named a lot of things). Plus, a unique pantheon that included most of the non-human gods.
Downside, for me, was the module that incorporated laser weapons and such from a crashed spaceship... yeah... I'm looking at you, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Suck it.
Anyways, sorry I went on about Greyhawk, hehe.
Drunken.dx
Well-known member
always.
Anurakh
Little Nixie
It is a very adequate phrase, but for our world, in which there is no magic, but we have often taken for magic situations that are scientifically explainable."Magic's just science that we don't understand yet." -Arthur C. Clarke
Guess you know more than Arthur C. Clarke ever did.
Keep up the good work, and keep using "the google" for answers.
But in Eberron it is the other way around. In Eberron, magic exists, and is used extensively replacing technology. Eberron's technology is medieval, but the setting is not medieval, because magic has replaced technology, and puts the setting in a situation similar to our industrial revolution, but in Eberron is magical revolution.
It is not technology, it is magic. In Eberron there are trains, but they are literally driven by lightning, not by steam, not by fossil fuels, but by magic, literally, a magical lightning. In Eberron there are airplanes (or zeppelins), but they are not our planes or zeppelins. There is no technology in the airships, its functioning is through magic, its propellant force is a bound elemental, and its driving does not imply knowing of science or tech, but having a magical dragonmark that connects with the magical rudder of the Airship.
In Eberron there is a telegraph system, but it is not a thing that goes through cables or waves in the air. It is a magical system, which works through sending spells that work through magical communication stones that only Sivis heirs can handle,
In Eberron we still have a very efficient postal system, but instead of vans, use couriers mounting magically modified horses to make them faster and more tireless, horses that can have magical horseshoes that allow them to walk over the water or even make small flights to evade obstacles. Are we sure that our vans are better than these magical mounts?
The orien couriers do not use airplanes, but use dragonhawks, hippogriffs and similar mounts for flying services. Again, it is not technology, it is magic. And it is not medieval, it is magical. All these magical mounts are much, much more efficient than the animal mounts that we can have in the real world, even in the 21st century.In Eberron there are cannons, but they are not the cannons of our world that work with powder. Eberron's cannons work with elemental shrapnel (there are earth, fire, electric, ice ...), and energized by an alchemical solution of dragonshards.
In Eberron there are missiles, but they are not our missiles. In the war, in Eberron, a Siegestaff is used, which is a huge magical staff (not thought for adventuring), which allows to cast a magical spell amplifying it in various ways (including distance), by trained soldiers that are not able to cast the spell by themselves but have taught them to use this “high magic artifact” (instead of high technology device)
In Eberron there are no firearms, but there are soldiers fighting with cantrips and wands that are basically magical gunmen. And we are sure that a 21st century war plane is more terrifying than an Audarian soldier on the back of a dragonhawk throwing fireballs and other spells from the air?
Similar parallels could be made with medicine and the hospitals of House Jorasco, which are basically magical medicine.
In Eberron there are industry, but the factories do not have production lines with advanced machines, but the production lines are magical artisans using cantrips and rituals, and when "advanced machinery" is necessary, they are not really machines, but magical forges that require the use of Dragonmak of Making (a dragonmarked Cannith heir!). And yeah, those magical forges are so advanced that they can even produce Warforged, which are much more than robots, are sentient and intelligent organic constructs. Neither our AI of the 21st century equals that.
In Eberron there are theaters with magical items the size of an organ that produces illusory images, a projection system at the level of our best special effects. Do we remember that the illusion magic can even produce tactile, thermal or olfactory sensations? There is even television for the rich, with a magical object similar to one of those balls that the discos have, which takes the live image of the phiarlan artists in the theatre and transmit it to crystal balls linked at the house of rich customers. Hey, is television, but no technological, is pure magic of divination and illusion.
And although Eberron's magic advances in general equals our late nineteenth-century technology, some of the previous examples can be considered more of the twentieth century or even the 21st century. Moreover, some "technomagics" of Eberron have not been achieved in the 21st century. House Orien has an instant teleportation system for the very rich. Only for the rich, because there are not many Orien heirs with the greater dragonmark, but the system exists. Some independent wizards can do the same (not many because there are not many wizards or sorcs with that capacity in Khorvaine, but they exist, and what current transport system can match this?).
It is not technology. In the words of the creator of the setting, Keith Baker, on Eberron he intended a world where magic replaced technology, and where arcane magic was science. In Eberron, arcane magic is based on scientific principles (you do this, this and this, and you consistently obtain this magical effect), and completely replace our science. There is no mysticism in Eberron's magic, it is arcane science that is taught in universities, schools and artisan guilds. Also, it is magic in evolution. Eberron is supposed to be in an intense process of magic revolution. Airships, lightning rail, etc, are recent innovations. There is an intense competition between the Dragonmark Houses & the Twelve, Arcanix & the Arcane Congress, the elemental binders of Zilargo and other minor actors to achieve better magical innovations. If a campaign lasts enough decades, Eberron's magic should match our technology of the twentieth century, and even that of the 21st century.
So Eberron is not science fiction. Science Fiction implies the use of advanced technology and science. Eberron is Fantasy, because everything this setting uses is magic. It is not High Magic, however. It's Wide Magic, no High Magic (In Khorvaine there is extensive magic use of up to the third spell level, but from there the number of people who can produce higher spell level effects are drastically reduced, and we can no longer speak of extensive use). But it is certainly High Fantasy.
And DDO has only scratched the surface of the setting, and to do justice this game would have to deepen much more.
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Anurakh
Little Nixie
No steampunk. Eberron is magitech. There is not "steam" or "technology" in Eberron, is only magic replacing technology.
I agree with spelljammer. It's fantasy with a "space opera" theme.
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droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
Magitech can often just be steampunk with the actual steam replaced with magic.
In terms of aesthetic, in terms of Victorian-Edwardian inspiration for motifs, in terms of the kind of tech that's driven by whatever specific means (e.g. airships), I think Eberron is well within the bounds of steampunk. The abundance of goggles alone should qualify it as steampunk
That would differentiate it from other magitech settings where the magitech is far more futuristic, like giant robots and jet/rocket style flying machines
And I think airships definitely qualify as "technology", as they're described: they're "powered" by bound Air Elementals, but they're definitely mechanically driven past that, as we see in that one godawful E3BC quest.
Anurakh
Little Nixie
Steampunk is a fusion of technology and magic (well, not even that, steampunk is a subgenre of science fiction that incorporates retrofuturistic technology and aesthetics inspired by, but not limited to, 19th-century industrial steam-powered machinery, and which may also incorporate additional elements from fantasy and other genres), and we don't have that in Eberron. It's all magic imitating technology. Eberron isn't steampunk. And I'm not the only one saying this. The creator of the setting himself says it.Magitech can often just be steampunk with the actual steam replaced with magic.
In terms of aesthetic, in terms of Victorian-Edwardian inspiration for motifs, in terms of the kind of tech that's driven by whatever specific means (e.g. airships), I think Eberron is well within the bounds of steampunk. The abundance of goggles alone should qualify it as steampunk
That would differentiate it from other magitech settings where the magitech is far more futuristic, like giant robots and jet/rocket style flying machines
And I think airships definitely qualify as "technology", as they're described: they're "powered" by bound Air Elementals, but they're definitely mechanically driven past that, as we see in that one godawful E3BC quest.
Airships aren't technological. It's not scientific principles that keep them in the air, it's pure magic. Airships don't even have an aerodynamic shape; they're traditional ships designed to navigate through water, but with magic that allows them to fly. I don't see how saying that their power source is a bound elemental makes them technological. That's magic, that's pure fantasy! I don't think anyone could ever imagine an elemental as a possible future technological advancement, because, you know, elementals aren't even real creatures.
As for driving, airships aren't mechanically driven. If that were the case, the driver wouldn't need to be a Lyrandar heir, with the Mark of the Storm. No, that dragonmark is required to operate the helm, which is magical and one of the items called "dragonmark focuses" in the setting, because they can only be activated by the dragonmark whose magic is related to the focus in question. That's why the Dragonmark Houses have trade monopolies, after all. If anyone could drive an airship, the Lyrandar wouldn't have that monopoly.
No, airships are magical, not technological. They don't stay in the air because they're aerodynamic. They're propelled by a fantastic energy source, inherently magical creatures. They're steered by magical rudders used by pilots bearing a magical mark. How can they be considered even remotely technological? It's impossible to be more magical. They don't have a single scientific element in their design or operation. But they do have a lot of arcane science behind them
Edit. I'm copying from the Campaign setting what the rudder of an airship is:
As you can see, it's a magical item! There's nothing mechanical about driving an airship!
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Anurakh
Little Nixie
droid, If you're interested in learning about the magic of Eberronian airships, read this article linked below. It's by the creator of the setting and is very interesting. As you can see, these ships are pure magic.
Mnemor
Contract devil
You know, what impresses me most about Precious Cargo is how well it handles the lore of airships. It certainly simplifies the ship's systems a lot, but when I saw the elemental engine and remembered the lore from the manuals, I couldn't help but smile.
Anurakh
Little Nixie
Yes, I also like that quest because of the way it respects the lore. What bothers me about Precious Cargo is the wasted time at the end. Having to wait around without doing anything once the adventure is over is a pain. They could have included a narration like "so many minutes later you reach the end of the journey..." instead of making us wait those minutes!
But I love the depiction of the airships and the pirate boardings and the like.
FaceDancer
Olde Wurm
Precious Cargo is rather great! If they ever do another Illithid Invasion deal again, they should have something along these lines integrated into one of the missions.
droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
I think his objections to the term were more with the "punk" than the fact that they dont use steam technology.
Respectfully, I remain unconvinced. Steampunk - the way the term is actually used to describe an aesthetic found across many works and media - does not necessarily require literal steam, nor actual punkery. Its just a term that encompasses Victorian-Edwardian motifs and influences in a fantastic setting. Its influenced by the Age of Steam, rather than steam technology directly. In fact I think most times you'll see something described as "steampunk", it wont involve actual steamworks...I think you'd see clockworks far more often, e.g.
And I think Eberron is absolutely influenced by Victorian-Edwardian aesthetics and motifs, in a fantastic setting. Its far more aligned with that than, say, Regency-Age of Sail (Spelljammer) or High Medieval (Greyhawk, Dragonlance, etc.) eras, or Dieselpunk/Atomic Age/Rocket Age, modernist, or cyberpunk/futurist aesthetics
And of course I'm not the only one to think so:
If that were true, then you wouldnt need to Repair them when they failed, you'd need some kind of Use Magic Device check.
Like you said yourself - they're magitech. That doesnt mean magic replaces everything technological, it means magic and technology are fused
Anurakh
Little Nixie
No, their objections weren't just to the "punk" art, but to the fact that the "steam" aspect doesn't fit with Eberron. You're focusing only on the Victorian aesthetic, but you don't realize that steam implies steam-based technology (in fact, this genre implies that the motor of technology is steam, not electricity, as was historically the case), and Eberron doesn't use steam. It uses magic to replace technology, and it doesn't use steam.
So it can't be steampunk, because Eberron neither uses technology (it's magic) nor does it use steam. Even the Victorian aspect is highly debatable. Just because the overall technological level is roughly late 19th century doesn't make the aesthetic entirely Victorian. Look, Sharn is a city that looks very modern even by our standards. Yes, there are lamplighters lighting lamps, but these aren't the gas lamps of the 19th century, but magical lights that have a very different aesthetic. Damn, the train runs on lightning! No smoking locomotives, it's lightning! Socially, the society isn't Victorian, even though there's still a monarchy and nobility, but it's a surprisingly cosmopolitan and open-minded society, with very little racism (even the criticisms of warforged and changelings are mild compared to the Victorian mentality) and no gender segregation, and without all those prudish scruples of the Victorian era.
Sometimes classifying a game or work within a genre is tricky. But Eberron really doesn't fit as steampunk. You're not the only one who's called Eberron steampunk, no, but that doesn't mean it's true. Again, the creator of the setting himself dismisses it. If you want to think it fits, well, fine, it's just semantics after all. But if you have the creator of the setting saying no, it doesn't fit, maybe you should reconsider a bit, right?
As for the ships being technology, no way. Using Repair has been a thing for the DDO devs in Precious cargo, who said that Knowledge Arcane or, in its absence, UMD aren't used on the table. In fact, on the tabletop, it has to be that way because there aren't any skill called Repair in the 3.5 skill category. Craft skills are used to repair objects.
Let's review what an Eberonian airship is:
- A physical hull constructed of a magical wood that doesn't exist in real life and is almost weightless. The hull isn't particularly aerodynamic because it's literally like a galleon designed to sail on water. Furthermore, although it's designed for high-altitude flight, the deck isn't enclosed, with all that entails in terms of strong winds and pressure issues that should make it impossible to stay on deck. In other words: nothing scientific or technological about its design. It's a ship designed for water but with it is able to fly. In other words, magic, not technology. But building the physical hull requires ordinary science. This absolutely non-aerodynamic physical container is the only "technological" part of the ship.
-Elemental engine. The heart of it is the elemental core, an engraved sphere of brass and mithral with a Khyber dragonshard at the center. A raw elemental is bound to this dragonshard. The elemental is absolutely anchored to the core and can’t be easily released; what the engine does is to pull it out from the core, stretching it out across the ship’s systems and the ring. So, more magic here. No technology.
-Elemental Veins. They are auxiliary devices engraved with sigils and inlaid with Eberron dragonshards (so, magical in nature!) and channel power through the ship. In addition to directly connecting the core to the elemental ring, these channel the secondary enchantments of the focusing nodes and the wind wards. So, another arcane device. It’s not technological, it’s magical. You are not going to find any “elemental device” in the real life. It’s fantasy.
-Focusing nodes. Superficially similar to the conductor stones used in the lightning rail and serve a similar role; they are placed at critical vein junctures and help to draw out and stabilize the power of the core. Focusing nodes also maintain an enchantment that maintains a consistent temperature within the vessel, even at high altitudes that would typically be bitterly cold. So, more magic. No technology.
-Wind wards. An airship is an open-deck vessel that moves swiftly through the upper atmosphere. What keeps people from being blown off the deck? How can people breathe at high altitudes? How does an airship handle turbulence? The wind wards are the answer to these questions. An airship is enveloped in a ward that shunts both wind and small objects (such as birds) around the vessel, as well as maintaining air pressure within the wards. The wind wards are also play a role in maneuvering the ship; the ring provides forward thrust, but the envelope of winds helps the vessel turn. While the wards are controlled by the Wheel of Wind and Water, they draw power from the focusing nodes and have their own system of “ward wings” that must be maintained and adjusted by the crew. Ok, this is evocation magic anchored with abjuration spells. No technology here!
-The Wheel of Wind and Water. This is the dragonmark focus item that controls the ship. It has two purposes: it allows the captain to interface with the elemental, helping to calm it and to direct speed and thrust; and it also allows the captain to maintain the wind wards, and use them to direct fine maneuvering. More magic! This is a magic item. You have the crafting requirements on my last post lol
-The pilot needs to have the Mark of the Storm, More magic here. Keith Baker says he'd allow a character without the Mark to pilot the ship, but only because characters are special and have potential that the world's NPCs lack. And even then, it would require a ton of skill checks.
As you can see, there's no technology on an airship beyond the hull (which is a boat for navigating through water, not air, lol). All the systems that enable flight aren't founded in science, but in arcane knowledge—in other words, in magical science. It's magic, droid.
When you have a spaceship in science fiction, or a hovercar, or any other tecnological device, it's assumed to operate under scientific premises that would work in our world even if we don't yet have the technology for it. But that's not the case with the airships of Eberron, or any other arcane advancement in the setting. These ships will never be achieved in real life because they require magic that doesn't exist. The lighting rail will never exist in our world because its construction and operation involve the use of magic. Hell, the lamps I mentioned earlier have never existed in our world because their operation and aesthetic are magical; they're not the gas lamps of the 19th century. There are no mechanical clocks in Eberron lol; time is measured with prestidigitation cantrips and some similar orations of divine or primal classes.
You can insist it's technology, but that doesn't make it real. It's magic, pure magic. Magic presented as if it were science, because that's the intention of the creator of the setting: to create a world where magic replaces technology.
Obviously, magic is anchored in physical objects. But when you have a cloak of flying in D&D, you don't say it's magic-fused technology because that flight magic is anchored in a piece of clothing! No, you say it's a magic item. Magictech is just a word, but the reality of Eberron's magical devices is that they're created by magic, that they work by magic, and that they're designed with "arcane science" and not with "real science."
And yes, if something goes wrong with the ship, you might need to repair the physical container of the magic (using craft skills or repair/mending spells - in DDO's case it would be repair skill), but you will also need to repair the ship's enchantments, and that requires Knowledge Arcane or Spellcraft (UMD is not for repairing, it's for getting something to work without really knowing how you're doing it, which might be required to get the helm working without the Mark of the Storm), or maybe that is not enough and some enchantments have to be recreated from scratch.
So it can't be steampunk, because Eberron neither uses technology (it's magic) nor does it use steam. Even the Victorian aspect is highly debatable. Just because the overall technological level is roughly late 19th century doesn't make the aesthetic entirely Victorian. Look, Sharn is a city that looks very modern even by our standards. Yes, there are lamplighters lighting lamps, but these aren't the gas lamps of the 19th century, but magical lights that have a very different aesthetic. Damn, the train runs on lightning! No smoking locomotives, it's lightning! Socially, the society isn't Victorian, even though there's still a monarchy and nobility, but it's a surprisingly cosmopolitan and open-minded society, with very little racism (even the criticisms of warforged and changelings are mild compared to the Victorian mentality) and no gender segregation, and without all those prudish scruples of the Victorian era.
Sometimes classifying a game or work within a genre is tricky. But Eberron really doesn't fit as steampunk. You're not the only one who's called Eberron steampunk, no, but that doesn't mean it's true. Again, the creator of the setting himself dismisses it. If you want to think it fits, well, fine, it's just semantics after all. But if you have the creator of the setting saying no, it doesn't fit, maybe you should reconsider a bit, right?
As for the ships being technology, no way. Using Repair has been a thing for the DDO devs in Precious cargo, who said that Knowledge Arcane or, in its absence, UMD aren't used on the table. In fact, on the tabletop, it has to be that way because there aren't any skill called Repair in the 3.5 skill category. Craft skills are used to repair objects.
Let's review what an Eberonian airship is:
- A physical hull constructed of a magical wood that doesn't exist in real life and is almost weightless. The hull isn't particularly aerodynamic because it's literally like a galleon designed to sail on water. Furthermore, although it's designed for high-altitude flight, the deck isn't enclosed, with all that entails in terms of strong winds and pressure issues that should make it impossible to stay on deck. In other words: nothing scientific or technological about its design. It's a ship designed for water but with it is able to fly. In other words, magic, not technology. But building the physical hull requires ordinary science. This absolutely non-aerodynamic physical container is the only "technological" part of the ship.
-Elemental engine. The heart of it is the elemental core, an engraved sphere of brass and mithral with a Khyber dragonshard at the center. A raw elemental is bound to this dragonshard. The elemental is absolutely anchored to the core and can’t be easily released; what the engine does is to pull it out from the core, stretching it out across the ship’s systems and the ring. So, more magic here. No technology.
-Elemental Veins. They are auxiliary devices engraved with sigils and inlaid with Eberron dragonshards (so, magical in nature!) and channel power through the ship. In addition to directly connecting the core to the elemental ring, these channel the secondary enchantments of the focusing nodes and the wind wards. So, another arcane device. It’s not technological, it’s magical. You are not going to find any “elemental device” in the real life. It’s fantasy.
-Focusing nodes. Superficially similar to the conductor stones used in the lightning rail and serve a similar role; they are placed at critical vein junctures and help to draw out and stabilize the power of the core. Focusing nodes also maintain an enchantment that maintains a consistent temperature within the vessel, even at high altitudes that would typically be bitterly cold. So, more magic. No technology.
-Wind wards. An airship is an open-deck vessel that moves swiftly through the upper atmosphere. What keeps people from being blown off the deck? How can people breathe at high altitudes? How does an airship handle turbulence? The wind wards are the answer to these questions. An airship is enveloped in a ward that shunts both wind and small objects (such as birds) around the vessel, as well as maintaining air pressure within the wards. The wind wards are also play a role in maneuvering the ship; the ring provides forward thrust, but the envelope of winds helps the vessel turn. While the wards are controlled by the Wheel of Wind and Water, they draw power from the focusing nodes and have their own system of “ward wings” that must be maintained and adjusted by the crew. Ok, this is evocation magic anchored with abjuration spells. No technology here!
-The Wheel of Wind and Water. This is the dragonmark focus item that controls the ship. It has two purposes: it allows the captain to interface with the elemental, helping to calm it and to direct speed and thrust; and it also allows the captain to maintain the wind wards, and use them to direct fine maneuvering. More magic! This is a magic item. You have the crafting requirements on my last post lol
-The pilot needs to have the Mark of the Storm, More magic here. Keith Baker says he'd allow a character without the Mark to pilot the ship, but only because characters are special and have potential that the world's NPCs lack. And even then, it would require a ton of skill checks.
As you can see, there's no technology on an airship beyond the hull (which is a boat for navigating through water, not air, lol). All the systems that enable flight aren't founded in science, but in arcane knowledge—in other words, in magical science. It's magic, droid.
When you have a spaceship in science fiction, or a hovercar, or any other tecnological device, it's assumed to operate under scientific premises that would work in our world even if we don't yet have the technology for it. But that's not the case with the airships of Eberron, or any other arcane advancement in the setting. These ships will never be achieved in real life because they require magic that doesn't exist. The lighting rail will never exist in our world because its construction and operation involve the use of magic. Hell, the lamps I mentioned earlier have never existed in our world because their operation and aesthetic are magical; they're not the gas lamps of the 19th century. There are no mechanical clocks in Eberron lol; time is measured with prestidigitation cantrips and some similar orations of divine or primal classes.
You can insist it's technology, but that doesn't make it real. It's magic, pure magic. Magic presented as if it were science, because that's the intention of the creator of the setting: to create a world where magic replaces technology.
Obviously, magic is anchored in physical objects. But when you have a cloak of flying in D&D, you don't say it's magic-fused technology because that flight magic is anchored in a piece of clothing! No, you say it's a magic item. Magictech is just a word, but the reality of Eberron's magical devices is that they're created by magic, that they work by magic, and that they're designed with "arcane science" and not with "real science."
And yes, if something goes wrong with the ship, you might need to repair the physical container of the magic (using craft skills or repair/mending spells - in DDO's case it would be repair skill), but you will also need to repair the ship's enchantments, and that requires Knowledge Arcane or Spellcraft (UMD is not for repairing, it's for getting something to work without really knowing how you're doing it, which might be required to get the helm working without the Mark of the Storm), or maybe that is not enough and some enchantments have to be recreated from scratch.
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mbartol
Murder Hobo
Can’t lines be blurred when categorizing sub-genres of fictional works? So Ebberon spans multiple genres—it doesn’t firmly fit into a single arbitrary category.
Manufacturing techniques are technology, and in DDO, it is driven by magic. It’s still technology that has advanced beyond Stone Age technology (or any other arbitrary reference).
Manufacturing techniques are technology, and in DDO, it is driven by magic. It’s still technology that has advanced beyond Stone Age technology (or any other arbitrary reference).
Phaedra
Well-known member
Wiess and Hickman's Dragonlance Trilogy have a special place in my heart, but Krynn, like Athas, can't be done right in DDO.
Venturing into the forgettable realms was a mistake the first time, and nothing they'd done with it since has improved my opinion, but either of those settings would be an even worse fit.
Venturing into the forgettable realms was a mistake the first time, and nothing they'd done with it since has improved my opinion, but either of those settings would be an even worse fit.
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Anurakh
Little Nixie
Absolutely. Eberron blurs genres, so it's hard to classify it. But I think when the creator says something doesn't fit, their opinion should be taken into account. Who better to know a work than its creator?
And of course, creating the physical containers of magic requires a certain amount of technology. But keep in mind that Eberron's technology is more or less medieval. What really gives the feeling of "advanced technology" is magic. Building the physical cars and locomotives of a train doesn't require much advanced science. Building the hull of a ship isn't too sophisticated. But what makes that airship or that lighting rail work is magic; that's advanced.
But I'll add a note: even in the construction of physical objects, magic is used in Eberron. The magewriths that build these items use magecraft cantips and other low-level spells to build them (and more quickly than in real life). Eberron... is a world of wide-ranging magic.
droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
That still seems like technology to me. You have a number of discrete components or subsystems, each with a discrete function involved in translating the raw energy of the core into creating consistent effects to generate the motive force. That's technological, regardless of if the raw energy is a bound elemental, or a nuclear reactor, or a dilithium-powered warp bubble.
Again, magitech is magic being used as technology, which is exactly what you're describing.
Cf with other more "pure" magical objects, like a magic carpet or the Mythallar. They dont have "parts". They're objects that are enchanted, and they "just fly". Or, more relevantly, compare to Spelljammer ships, that just have a magical helm, and that simply draws magical energy to make the ship "just fly".