A new mentality for doing quests as a solo first-lifer.

[Sturmbb]

Its like a pump and dump of crypto. It was amazing at first, then people started abusing things, running overpowered classes in R1 and the devs didnt seem to do anything about it. Then the devs nerfed stealth. And then the devs made reapers always see thru stealth no matter what. I feel like Reaper was given 2 fold, it was to "combat stealth abusers" along with the stupid and very very clunky dungeon alerts, and to "give players an extra layer of difficult, but rewarding content modes". At first Reaper was great but now its like the new Elite. Because a lot of players who played reaper back then have hundreds of PL's and reaper is as difficult to a vet as casual is to a newbie (cause power creep).

The reason why this is causing the "slow death of DDO" has been outlined here already but if you need me to tell you its because NEW PLAYERS are getting ticked off when they join an R1 to try to progress in a manner that doesn't take a bajillion years and they are trying to join people running LFMs (because MMO.. whodathunkit?) and wanting some social interaction and camaraderie and all they are getting are people whizzing by them at millions of miles per hour and leaving up traps and mobs that 1 shot them cause "EXP POT TIMER TO GOTTA GO FAST", and that's turning some people off.
Reaper is not attracting anyone new. There has been little to no new people playing, if they are - they are solo or play for a small amount of time and quit, due to the aforementioned issues.

I must admit, i do agree with everything you have just said. I don't TR. So all my toons are first lifers. Watching players with multiple past lives zoom through content while i run in their wake. Is definitely not fun. But even if we didnt have Reaper, they would still be doing this on Elite.

Personally i tend to run in either permadeath or a static group with first livers. It's very rare i actually run with players with multple past lives. As it's just not very fun.

The main reason i play games is for the fun and challenge. After seeing how much power is given by multiple past lives. It has actually put me off ever TRing.

Maybe the problem isnt Reaper, but Past lives. The problem if they nerfed past lives, is that players have spent alot of time, dedication and money (buying xp pots) to get there toons to this level of power. I think it would be a slap in the face of these players, if SSG decided to nerf past lives.

I don't really see there being a solution, without upsetting a major part of the population.

 

[1Th13rteen3]

I must admit, i do agree with everything you have just said. I don't TR. So all my toons are first lifers. Watching players with multiple past lives zoom through content while i run in their wake. Is definitely not fun. But even if we didnt have Reaper, they would still be doing this on Elite.

Personally i tend to run in either permadeath or a static group with first livers. It's very rare i actually run with players with multple past lives. As it's just not very fun.

The main reason i play games is for the fun and challenge. After seeing how much power is given by multiple past lives. It has actually put me off ever TRing.

Maybe the problem isnt Reaper, but Past lives. The problem if they nerfed past lives, is that players have spent alot of time, dedication and money (buying xp pots) to get there toons to this level of power. I think it would be a slap in the face of these players, if SSG decided to nerf past lives.

I don't really see there being a solution, without upsetting a major part of the population.

Sorry if I was crass and criticizing in my response to you, its been a really stressful day and I shouldn't be on forums talking about stuff im really passionate about when I'm already stressed. xD

 

[cdbd3rd]

Oh I know, its just with THIS game it was a head-scratcher for me

*Chuckle* I'm sure there were a lot of weird looks from beyond the monitors. The original thread title was someone pondering level 30 in Korthos (which IS impossible) but 20 was in reach, so I gave it a shot. I don't have my original screenies at hand to check date stamps, but of the ones I uploaded it looks like it took 2-3 years overall.

My favoritest reply to that old thread was someone re-writing the Korthos DM voiceover, changing it from "the villagers whisper Hero" to "The villagers whisper <Lunatic>" (or something like that. The exact word has escaped me.)

 

[Bjond]

sadly with 207 past lives in the game, people don't have time to do anything but r1 zerg because of its vastly superior xp/min

This is the biggest problem with the TR concept. It sounds great when pitched: "hey y'all, TR lets us keep all content relevant and mix newbies in with veterans so they can learn! It's a win-win-win-win-...!"

The reality is that with the vast TR counts required for racial + heroic completion, vets know every pixel by name and can run things at top speed while blindfolded and know where they are and what's happening from the voice-track alone. Anything that slows this down, such as a newbie wondering where the quest entrance might be, is a detrimental speed bump.

Hi, newbie, welcome to your new virtual life in DDO. Don't worry. It's short. You get to role-play road-kill!

Watching players with multiple past lives zoom through content while i run in their wake. Is definitely not fun.

I learned this one back on Aion. Heavy PvP game, very grindy. Top geared PvP could shred a top PvE in seconds. I had a top pvp 'sin. Typical arena 1x1 fight: zone in, other player either knows name or checks gear, other player sits down and waits to die because there's no real difference between putting up a fight or not for PvE'ers. O M G .. that was so much fun for both of us. Why am I playing this game!?

Me and my static had soooo much more fun playing our mid-geared alts simply because of the friction -- win/loss wasn't assured.

What does this have to do with DDO? The same lesson applies here: friction is fun, don't out-level the friction. This is why I've not farmed full completionist. I get the major role boosting PLs and some RXP and then leave that character capped for raiding. Sure, chasing racial and epic will make the character MUCH stronger, but then it's DONE, friction is gone and so is the fun. Who are you going to group with? Why keep playing? What color was that unladen sparrow?

 

[Matuse]

May i ask how Reaper is the slow death of DDO. If anything i thought it revitilized the game for alot of older players and kept them from not leaving.

Some people not leaving is outweighed by a factor of at least 10 the number of people who did leave (or new players who never really started past a few hours) because they couldn't stand reaper. I myself have simply stopped grouping with other people (no, really, except for making a temporary Iconic on Moonsea to run someone through Ravenloft, I have not grouped with another human being since reaper was released) because I despise absolutely everything about reaper, and it's the only game mode anybody else plays. I hate it. If I didn't find my own motivation, I'd have permanently quit years ago myself, just like so many others.

The slow death is because people do leave - they get tired at some nerf, they throw up their hands with the new server lag, they can't stand Myth Drannor and now Lamordia loot, their IRL situation changes to where they don't have the time to play anymore, etc. Who replaces them? Not very many people. There are three main factors in DDO that drive away new players:

1) Reaper. New players can't handle it, are not invested enough to learn to handle it, and getting carried by veterans doesn't teach them and makes them feel useless. Who wants to deal with that when there are so many other options available?
2) The cost investment when a free quest pack promo isn't running. And then even when it is...DDO is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.
3) The massive and horribly documented complexity and bewildering number of game systems that makes learning to play into a full time job.

It's not sustainable.

1) Normal XP from reaper needs to be the same as elite. Reaper should only give reaper XP. Then people don't feel punished for not doing it.
2) A massive overhaul of the game's monetization model, and hiring about 5 new artists to make a thousand cosmetics.
3) A completely revamped new player experience with a real tutorial, and overhauled game systems like crafting so they are well documented and function via the same basic template so you don't have to learn 15 different systems.

 

[Sturmbb]

Sorry if I was crass and criticizing in my response to you, its been a really stressful day and I shouldn't be on forums talking about stuff im really passionate about when I'm already stressed. xD

That's fine, thank you for your apology. I know this game can be frustrating, it's because we care so much about it.

I hope your having a much better day

 

[Br4d]

Some people not leaving is outweighed by a factor of at least 10 the number of people who did leave (or new players who never really started past a few hours) because they couldn't stand reaper. I myself have simply stopped grouping with other people (no, really, except for making a temporary Iconic on Moonsea to run someone through Ravenloft, I have not grouped with another human being since reaper was released) because I despise absolutely everything about reaper, and it's the only game mode anybody else plays. I hate it. If I didn't find my own motivation, I'd have permanently quit years ago myself, just like so many others.

The slow death is because people do leave - they get tired at some nerf, they throw up their hands with the new server lag, they can't stand Myth Drannor and now Lamordia loot, their IRL situation changes to where they don't have the time to play anymore, etc. Who replaces them? Not very many people. There are three main factors in DDO that drive away new players:

1) Reaper. New players can't handle it, are not invested enough to learn to handle it, and getting carried by veterans doesn't teach them and makes them feel useless. Who wants to deal with that when there are so many other options available?
2) The cost investment when a free quest pack promo isn't running. And then even when it is...DDO is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.
3) The massive and horribly documented complexity and bewildering number of game systems that makes learning to play into a full time job.

It's not sustainable.

1) Normal XP from reaper needs to be the same as elite. Reaper should only give reaper XP. Then people don't feel punished for not doing it.
2) A massive overhaul of the game's monetization model, and hiring about 5 new artists to make a thousand cosmetics.
3) A completely revamped new player experience with a real tutorial, and overhauled game systems like crafting so they are well documented and function via the same basic template so you don't have to learn 15 different systems.

They had to find a way to satisfy the power gamers however I think they took the wrong path in doing that. Reaper points are the work of the devil.

 

[Matuse]

They had to find a way to satisfy the power gamers however I think they took the wrong path in doing that. Reaper points are the work of the devil.

I also hate reaper points. Never understood their purpose. The whole reason for reaper is "extra challenge!" and then the reaper trees steadily remove the challenge. I see people saying that we need R11 or whatever because existing reaper is too easy. I ask them why they don't remove all their reaper tree points, and for some reason, none of them ever answer.

People have the ability to regulate their own challenge level...and don't. Then complain about it.

The problem is that if normal XP is reduce to elite levels, and the reaper trees are removed, then there's just no progression to be found. The 1% loot boost could be secretly removed and I doubt anyone would even know the difference.

I have a multi-part plan to completely re-do how reaper functions entirely. I doubt it would be very popular.

 

[Igognito]

Players need something to grind.
Players need to feel there is progression.
Players need to have a way to increases the challenge.
All three are actually covered by Reaper. And I personally believe that DDO did an amazing job in the reaper concept (at least in theory).
In practice there are a few things that I think could have been done better.
1) reaper spawning
2) variety of "reaper" monsters
3) lack of Perma Death concepts/penalties for failure.

 

[Archaic]

When I first started long ago before I left and returned...I was zerged through everything. I contributed in battles and it was imperative to be able to heal yourself (back then it was divine caster, UMD or die) but everything went so fast I never knew what was going on.

When I returned I avoided grouping too, because I was not at the level the average player was. But doing quests solo is more immersive. You get to see a lot more detail, understand the storyline, really have to think about how to go about things to survive.

Everyone should both group and solo quests...and after a few lives and proper gear even if you arent the hero of the party you will be more useful than hirelings.

 

[Gumbi Dammit]

It is expensive and takes much longer, but get the fan bundles and the permanent gold seal hirelings, and just slog through quests yourself. Although, with the state of the game the past few months, even today, I can't in good conscious convince someone to spend money on the game. All my friends except one, quiet for good, even my family quit. I talked ONE into coming back last weekend, and the lag was so bad, after I promised things were bad, well she hasn't come back and has little desire to...

If you want to play with others you are correct, they do not play to have fun, they play to constantly power level and farm. Usually one guy can solo the whole dungeon. But when they all can solo, well, yeah, you get left behind, as they run through the mobs to the end.

DO NOT roll toons thinking as a team player and what a group might need, because no one needs you. They do not need a healer, they do not need a tank, they will either kill everything or just run through the mobs with their health, move speed, insane AC, and dodge, and leave them for you to die to. The typical D&D group rules, or rules for WoW, Anarchy Online, or basically any MMO for group make up, do not apply here unless in an end game raid. And even then if you pug it, well, it depends on who they are. If they are kind enough to get your stone and get you up, often they will talk about you later, make fun of you ( not knowing you might have a friend or alt account in the chat/discord), and probably not ask you back for a raid. They will shadow ban you just as fast or faster than forum moderators of some games or products, when yoiu complain and expose some harsh truths.

There is a chance, albeit a low one, that if you die they will come back and get you, but some do. It only takes one to speak up and ask if someone can grab your stone, but often if that one kind soul is not in your group then they will just rush to the end, finish and loot it, and port out leaving you effed in the a.

And honestly, it isn't a great feeling. I have left out of shame,myself, from a group, who was going to continue, because I sit dead the entire time. I have primarily played tanks and healers in other games, even in LoL. I don;t need the glory of kills and flexing my epeen. There are too many others out there that need that and honestly, they will throw a game if they can't have their way. It is what is is. I am fine lifting them up to carry and shine. So, when I rolled heals and tanks on here, with that in mind, boy, did I get a surprise with the expereince that have bee mentioned here.

The friend, I did get to join me last week, was excited about the gatehr your party code, even bought the 99 gold packs, and one other at full price. Vecna, maybe? I have them all , I cant remember. But the deal was "Make a new toon with me and let's actually play and enjoy the dungeons. The other times I have tried, I have people on their 75 past life god toons, just run through them and leave me behind.". I laughed and agreed, knwing exactly what she meant.

There are good players out there. I don't think they always realize. Because they are long time vets and this type of play has become the norm for them. And many when they log on to play, they are just farming, they have a few hours to farm and that is their goal. Not to babysit a new player and actually enjoy the content. I get it.

There is some personal repsonibility to joining groups , especially reaper, now +30 boots, even most others have other speed boosts, as well and leave you in the dust. Good HP, AC, and clcikies to keep yourself up. In order to get some of this you need reaper XP, but you can;t get reaper xp wthout player reaper, but since you missed it when it first come out, you are behind, and pretty much have to do it on your own till you get to a point , where people will tolerate you.

 

[Drunken.dx]

That sounds exatly as exciting as licking a concrete wall constantly for 20 years. Bleh.

still sounds more fun than doing RIBA in GW2

 

[Bjond]

Anarchy Online, or basically any MMO

There's a name I haven't heard in ages. Which are more annoying, Leets or Kobolds?

Ph33r M3!

 

[Br4d]

There's a name I haven't heard in ages. Which are more annoying, Leets or Kobolds?

Ph33r M3!

Those were the days. I really miss The Secret World in all it's bad-ass clunkiness. The F2P version just sucks. Gacha to the core now.

 

[Bjond]

Those were the days. I really miss The Secret World in all it's bad-ass clunkiness. The F2P version just sucks. Gacha to the core now.

I loved SWL (didn't play the original). It played far more like a single-player RPG that happened to be online. The puzzles were insane. Once you finish with each faction's stories, you're rather done, but IMHO the stories were better than SWTOR or FFXIV (the two other top "story" MMOs).

 

[Tux]

Not exactly a "new" mentality, but certainly not mainstream. I've been playing that way for years. I played Asheron's Call from 2 months after release until the day it shut down; and have played DDO every since. AC is where I learned that while playing a MMO solo is kind of ironic, it was the most fun way for me to play, for all the reasons mentioned here. My bad experiences trying to group far outweigh the few good times I've had. It just isn't worth it. I've had pretty much the same experience in NW and Aion. Haven't really tried any others. Trying to think as a game designer, I'm not sure what the solution is to the problem of being newbie/casual friendly. Any idea I've been able to come up with, the power gamers would quickly figure out some way to exploit (AC stipends and shared XP come to mind, if anyone remembers AC).

I do have to admit I'd like to try a raid, and some of the solo-unfriendly quests, but I still have lots of fun without them. I play lots of different characters almost all still first life heroic in all worlds and all belong to my "Tux and Wine" guild with "Tux" as the leader. Feel free to send Tux a request for an invite and once in the guild you can check to see if any of my characters are online if you'd like to form a casual group. I try to log each Tux in once a week. If ship buffs are important to you, my best ship is on Cormyr, but still only level 40ish. One caveat is that I play without sound for the sake of domestic harmony.

 

[Bjond]

bad experiences trying to group far outweigh the few good times I've had. It just isn't worth it. I've had pretty much the same experience in NW and Aion.

I played Aion for a long while; amazingly fun PvP when you make a static for Dredgion. BUT, the grind and balance issues are insane. When we all finally finished our PvP sets our static basically breathed a huge sigh of relief, went rifting a few times, and faded out of the game.

I do have to admit I'd like to try a raid, and some of the solo-unfriendly quests

Our Silver Legion Thrane raids are semi-PUG and newbie friendly. Feel free to hop in and join the LFM. These days it fills *really* fast, though. We run 1800 PST Tue+Fri with the LFM going up shortly after 1800, maybe 1803~05.

If you let us know you're new, we'll chat more -- hopefully some helpful tips about what to do in the raid.

 

[Jasparius]

sadly with 207 past lives in the game, people don't have time to do anything but r1 zerg because of its vastly superior xp/min

if only SSG could implement a catch up mechanic that is more than 8 lives

also r1 will always give more xp than full clear on normal. the ftb is too much

The 1st life XP requirement should be 15 lives so you can get completionist needing 1.9m xp to 20.

Also would be way better if new players didnt need 8.25m xp to get to 30 as well.

But a few xp pot sales are more important than a few new players starting the game given they likely arent spending much $$$.

And if too many new people started, lag would likely return.

Best just keeping the whales happy.

 

[Br4d]

I loved SWL (didn't play the original). It played far more like a single-player RPG that happened to be online. The puzzles were insane. Once you finish with each faction's stories, you're rather done, but IMHO the stories were better than SWTOR or FFXIV (the two other top "story" MMOs).

I tried SWL but it was so heavily gacha I gave up. SWL feels like a game where you're constantly paying small amounts just to fully play the game and I will never do that for long.

 

[Br4d]

Not exactly a "new" mentality, but certainly not mainstream. I've been playing that way for years. I played Asheron's Call from 2 months after release until the day it shut down; and have played DDO every since. AC is where I learned that while playing a MMO solo is kind of ironic, it was the most fun way for me to play, for all the reasons mentioned here. My bad experiences trying to group far outweigh the few good times I've had. It just isn't worth it. I've had pretty much the same experience in NW and Aion. Haven't really tried any others. Trying to think as a game designer, I'm not sure what the solution is to the problem of being newbie/casual friendly. Any idea I've been able to come up with, the power gamers would quickly figure out some way to exploit (AC stipends and shared XP come to mind, if anyone remembers AC).

I do have to admit I'd like to try a raid, and some of the solo-unfriendly quests, but I still have lots of fun without them. I play lots of different characters almost all still first life heroic in all worlds and all belong to my "Tux and Wine" guild with "Tux" as the leader. Feel free to send Tux a request for an invite and once in the guild you can check to see if any of my characters are online if you'd like to form a casual group. I try to log each Tux in once a week. If ship buffs are important to you, my best ship is on Cormyr, but still only level 40ish. One caveat is that I play without sound for the sake of domestic harmony.

AC was an Explorer's game, as defined by the 4 types of players. It had an immersive open world with plenty of unique locations with teleports to and from to help get around. I played that game just to find new stuff and map it.

The play mechanics were weaker than average due primarily I suspect to the game being developed for dial-up just as the industry began looking at broadband. Lots of lag and rubberbanding with bad pathing code contributing to the flux.

My favorite activity in the game was going to the tallest mountain, whose name I forget, and looking for a new route up it. You could summit multiple ways and the different paths took you by different resources.