Yeah, it's an ability that's available to melee, but is hardly *being* melee.
A Realistic Start To Buffing Melee DPS
- Thread starter Chab
- Start date
In a straight single target dps comparison, with only self provided buffs and debuffs, I can hit 140-150k dps on Y with a repeater, where on a wraps monk I hit around 75-83k. That number goes down to the 50-65k on swf/twf vkf builds using dragonlords extra multi.
Realistically, all of those are fine when questing, since trash hp isn't that concerning. Melee has better aoe clear options, which imo, makes them more fun for questing.
I think if anything, hunts end should be turned into an epic strike, inexorable advance should be toned down, and hunt/pluck/tss should be re evaluated on multi hit weapon styles.
Realistically, all of those are fine when questing, since trash hp isn't that concerning. Melee has better aoe clear options, which imo, makes them more fun for questing.
I think if anything, hunts end should be turned into an epic strike, inexorable advance should be toned down, and hunt/pluck/tss should be re evaluated on multi hit weapon styles.
In a vacuum the anti-melee mechanics are a good thing. Raids need MORE mechanics of various styles and severeties that effect all classes in positive and negative ways.
They need to promote and all but enforce a varied party.
Ssg just doesn't spend much effort on designing intrinsically setup content because that is hard and time consuming to do.
Melee is fine.
Raid mechanics are fine, though the fire dot is a hateful design.
These are not the problems that need solving.
Top xbow builds dps advantage over others is a problem that needs solving.
Casters being useleas in raids and flatout unplayable without tomes and sentient filigrees is a major problem that has needed solving for years.
Custodian
Well-known member
You can picture the situation as an olympic racetrack with those hurdles. Its the hurdles that make it special.
Melees jump over the hurdles like they should.
Xbows cheat the whole thing with rocketboots.
And casters are in a wheelchair with flat tires.
(Seriously try pushing those all day...)
Giving the melees rocketboots as well will not make it a better or more fun race.
Melees jump over the hurdles like they should.
Xbows cheat the whole thing with rocketboots.
And casters are in a wheelchair with flat tires.
(Seriously try pushing those all day...)
Giving the melees rocketboots as well will not make it a better or more fun race.
GrizzlyOso
Well-known member
What I hope isn’t lost in this now argument about styles, which always happens, is how much better QC is than basically any other melee strike.
Sure, some others have been proposed, but when you take QC you can feel the difference. It’s like when you took old dragons breath. You could feel your character become more powerful.
It would be nice if they would adjust cooldowns or power on other things slowly but surely, instead of some massive revamp .
Obviously they won’t .
Sure, some others have been proposed, but when you take QC you can feel the difference. It’s like when you took old dragons breath. You could feel your character become more powerful.
It would be nice if they would adjust cooldowns or power on other things slowly but surely, instead of some massive revamp .
Obviously they won’t .
Fury has heal scream which is near mandatory currently, and QC is certainly disproportionately used for melee. It has had its cooldown adjusted once already, and split its damage across multiple tiers for a DP tax.
I'd rephrase it less that QC is better than others, and phrase it more that all other melee strikes (apart from The Sword Sings) are antiquated. Dire charge is mostly CC with an awkward activation, SD's strike is half utility focused with dodge or expanded reach and suffers an internal cooldown for damage procs, and Adrenaline is cumbersome in that you have to stop attacking and consider the game's GCD and heartbeat polling to properly use it. We also have GMoF which was adjusted down previously and has a long cooldown. Melee options for strikes just aren't very robust or useful in this current game design with such high mob hp, saves, etc.
I'd rather see other strike options lifted up than QC pushed down further. Similarly, we saw magus get much better strike options after dragonbreath got nuked, but I'd like to see other caster trees get lifted up as well.
in4theride75
Well-known member
Fate singer's melee strike does more DPS than QC. Only disadvantage is it's single target.
Tyrande
Well-known member
melee doesn't need a buff. Its casters DPS especially warlocks and favored souls' DPS need a buff.
martial ranged DPS especially crossbows (artificer or artificer splits, inquisitives) are good, but bow DPS are insanely bad.
Just make raids that have anti crossbow mechanics like what the part II of Legendary Chronoscope boss does. Deflect projectiles.
Also, the "Deflect arrows" feat should be renamed to "Deflect projectiles"... Problem is, "Deflect arrows" also deflect warlock's eldritch blast, which is actually not a projectile, it's a spell; which is incorrect implementation. BUG.
Well, to me personally that SSG implemented the whole warlock class incorrectly.
When it was 2016, the DPS was okay. Even now, the original implementation needs a buff.
Its weak, being nerfed 5 times, yada, yada, yada; I won't go into details here.
I do not know what's the role of casters in a reaper raid is. Are all casters relegated to healing and support, like a cleric? including warlocks, sorcerers, wizards? What's the purpose of all those damage spells? And CCs like dancing balls lasting only 3 seconds on R10, what's the purpose of that?
P.S. Reaper raids like R10 Tempest Spine, R4 or R5 Baba, Fire on Thunderpeak, Deathwyrm are okay and I would say caster and especially FvS and Warlock friendly. But the newer raids from 2019 onwards are NOT.
martial ranged DPS especially crossbows (artificer or artificer splits, inquisitives) are good, but bow DPS are insanely bad.
Just make raids that have anti crossbow mechanics like what the part II of Legendary Chronoscope boss does. Deflect projectiles.
Also, the "Deflect arrows" feat should be renamed to "Deflect projectiles"... Problem is, "Deflect arrows" also deflect warlock's eldritch blast, which is actually not a projectile, it's a spell; which is incorrect implementation. BUG.
Well, to me personally that SSG implemented the whole warlock class incorrectly.
When it was 2016, the DPS was okay. Even now, the original implementation needs a buff.
Its weak, being nerfed 5 times, yada, yada, yada; I won't go into details here.
I do not know what's the role of casters in a reaper raid is. Are all casters relegated to healing and support, like a cleric? including warlocks, sorcerers, wizards? What's the purpose of all those damage spells? And CCs like dancing balls lasting only 3 seconds on R10, what's the purpose of that?
P.S. Reaper raids like R10 Tempest Spine, R4 or R5 Baba, Fire on Thunderpeak, Deathwyrm are okay and I would say caster and especially FvS and Warlock friendly. But the newer raids from 2019 onwards are NOT.
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Eleron
Well-known member
Honestly, I believe the problem with crossbows comes from allowing dual wielders to have a rune arm also. If they remove those benefits, it will be more balanced. No rune arm can be tested to see if that works. They get extra benefits from the rune arm's effects, and that's an extra power that they don't need.
justin credible
Well-known member
its definitely much much more than the 2-20 extra damage per shot from runearms
With the ammount of damage in the game, r10 is more about survavility than damage, because the cap needed is lower than then cap in dps, dps wise is any of those top melee buiilds that are close to a decent range build? not even top builds because thats what matter for raids. but maybe what we need is a nerf to those builds...
Gruben
Darkest Apostate
what a horrible suggestion and i will be stopping only like 5 sentances in. "get rid of adrenaline" no, no thank you. the melee buff with U81 is fantastic, actual waste of time wall of text, saying nothing but meta platitudes. dont think melee dps is an issue, its a survivability issue which this patch addresses.
GrizzlyOso
Well-known member
Definitely agree and agree with your phrasing.
I keep trying to build without fotw and even if I have a second epic strike I end up keeping QC and heal from fotw in addition because it’s just more generally useful.
I didn’t necessarily mean to keep moving qc down, I’d also love to see the other strikes slowly adjusted up / reworked (esp dire charge / adrenaline) as you noted
Totally. I've tried to build without FoTW too, and while it can be serviceable, it still missed the crucial self healing needed and the aoe damage option QC provides. Legendary Thicc Biceps (strength of arms) will help allow more diversity in melee trees, but it may end up just being the same split to still keep that healing and QC for survivability and damage.
Bjond
Well-known member
Mechs without a workaround are the epitome of bad design.
Ideally, there should be ways for the raid to work together to cancel out the mechs. The simplest one (move away) works for most things, but Relentless spins so often, melee is pointless and the overhead stompers require staring at the ceiling, which doesn't work for anyone.
Examples of much better mechs: give the stompers a shadow and permit them to be killed. If they're killed, boss doesn't whirl. That's just 10s of thought with barely any creativity. I'm sure more time would cough up better ideas for ways to cancel the mechs.
An example of an existing hot mech: 2H2H fire dot. If you work together, you can negate it. Or, you can ignore it and hope your DPS is enough.
Better way to handle fire disease: make it purely come from the fire elementals -- they attack you or you attack them = you get diseased. Kill them off or CC them to remove the mech.
It doesn't have to be complicated. Methods for raids to work together to handle mechs are what makes a raid feel satisfying to complete. Run, dodge, kill is the least fun for a raid.
Monkey_Archer
Well-known member
Sure, but how would that make crossbows better?
Just give THF a big crossbow to smack things with that hits 3 times per swing. Duh.
Edit: Alternative - equipping the melee crossbow uncaps your doublestrike value from 100%.