A very controversial suggestion.

[Smokewolf]

I know very few people will agree with me, but I believe DDO needs an endurance-based resource system.

For Martials, this would take the form of an endurance bar that is consumed by attacking, sprinting, and other physically demanding actions. The same concept would apply to Casters, except that magical actions would consume mana while physical actions consume endurance. Both resources would regenerate naturally over time, allowing players to recover between encounters without making shrines a requirement. (Especially for newer players)

The immediate effect would be to slow the current "zerg everything" playstyle without simply inflating monster hit points or adding yet another layer of artificial penalties to compensate. At the same time, Casters would regain the ability to unleash full burst damage when the situation demands it, then recover between encounters without being shackled to shrine placement. While in doing so, much of the justification for the ever-increasing Nerfs / Penalties against Casters simply disappears.

More importantly, it would bring back something that DDO has steadily lost over the years: Class Interdependence.

Players would once again need to work together, covering teammates while they recover instead of expecting everyone to maintain maximum damage output indefinitely. It would encourage groups to think about party composition instead of stacking nothing but the highest-DPS builds available. Parties built entirely around melee, or ranged damage would quickly discover that sacrificing support, crowd control, and survivability comes with real consequences.

While all that may sound like a step backward to some people. I see it as a return to what originally made DDO stand out from other MMOs: players filling complementary roles instead of every character trying to do everything all the time. (Often solo)

Side note: Yes, I know that variations of this idea have been proposed before. Under normal circumstances I'd probably agree that it would be too radical of a change. However, looking at the current state of the game and at SSG's historical reluctance to roll back bad design decisions, I honestly don't see a better path forward. Continuing to pile new systems and penalties on top of old mistakes isn't fixing the underlying problem. It's only making the game more and more convoluted while solving nothing.

Your creative comments and suggestions are welcome!

(Oh and please VOTE)

Cheers!

Smokewolf

 

[Zvdegor]

Would apply to everyone, including Casters choosing to use melee or range.

Another question: How do U imagine to kill a 70+ million HP raid boss with this mechanic? Swinging weapons exhausting melees and then in the middle of the fight we just run away to regen?

 

[Custodian]

Another question: How do U imagine to kill a 70+ million HP raid boss with this mechanic? Swinging weapons exhausting melees and then in the middle of the fight we just run away to regen?

You could buy potions from the in game store with ddo points, or if you are very lucky find a lesser version of one in a chest. That's how casters do it anyway.

 

[Eme]

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[Zvdegor]

For me the solution would be putting up my own lfm with a warning: No zerging! Flowersniffing/etc. U can enjoy the game slow in your own pace with alike players with your own rules. This seems much more simple compared to that suggestion which has a big impact on the game and on everyone. Zerging is not the problem. Problem is when differnet palyers want to play together with very different palystyles.

 

[Smokewolf]

For me the solution would be putting up my own lfm with a warning: No zerging! Flowersniffing/etc. U can enjoy the game slow in your own pace with alike players with your own rules. This seems much more simple compared to that suggestion which has a big impact on the game and on everyone. Zerging is not the problem. Problem is when differnet palyers want to play together with very different palystyles.

Do how does this address the Caster problem, other than maybe ignoring it ?

 

[Custodian]

For me the solution would be putting up my own lfm with a warning: No zerging! Flowersniffing/etc. U can enjoy the game slow in your own pace with alike players with your own rules. This seems much more simple compared to rhat suggestion which has a big impact on the game and on everyone. Zerging is not the problem. Problem is when differnet palyers want to play together with very different palystyles.

Yup, zerging is a big part of what DDO has become, the main mechanic is doing the content over and over to resurrect with slightly more power than before acquiring literally 100's of past lives. Without zerging this game would have been dead in the water long ago - I think the secret here is to embrace the zerg, not limit it.
I always saw high reaper as the slow way to play, where you need to take your time as each battle could be a party wipe - characters would need to use all the tools in their arsenal. As a spell caster I have so much utility especially as a wizard, most of this is rendered useless outside of high reaper (and then useless in high reaper because of DC issues but that's another topic all together) But nobodies going to wait around in low skull quests whilst I charm monsters to fight each other etc you want to get to the end of the life as fast as possible to do another one and another etc. If you want that slow play, with real stakes that's what the higher reaper settings are for in my opinion. So in this respect (aside the above mentioned DC issues) the game does cater for a lot of different play styles. There are also RP guilds that take their time etc and as you say, we are able to dictate what the party style is and people can read it before they join.

I would love, more than anything for this game to get a UI overhaul with some QOL additions, better party tools, more help finding my way to quests etc - I've played since beta on and off, but I don't have the best memory a lot of times I won't join a party because I don't know which quest or where it is, takes a lot of insider knowledge and as I say people zerg, they don't want to wait for you to navigate the world to locate the quest etc. Must be a nightmare for new users and a big turn-off for acquiring new players with how complicated it all is, not just finding your way around, building characters etc.

It would be great if when gearing I didn't need a spreadsheet to keep track of what stats I have from where, so I don't overlap them.
And it would be really great to play in 4k without squinting or using hacks to get around the unscalable ui.

 

[Zvdegor]

Do how does this address the Caster problem, other than maybe ignoring it ?

How your suggestion solve the caster problem when it adds another limiting factor for casters too? The answer is it cannot. But it can pull other classes onto the same suffer level caster are atm. This looks to me not the real solution from every angle.

 

[Owlbear]

This does not remove active combat, but could require a party to regen a bit between encounters rather than Zerg blindly thru.

It does because there will be a lot of moments you can't do anything when you're out of endurance. And if a group needs to regen endurance imagine how tedious it will be for a solo player...
If you want to do something about zerg playstyle you have to ask why people prefer to zerg? You don't stop them from playing their prefered playstyle because that will only annoy players. You encourage things that prevent zerging and direct them to the desired playstyle. Give better rewards for optionals, doing breakables and traps etc. Maybe some sort of team bonus that you get at the end if all party members grouped more and worked together. Give players a reason to like playing the quests without zerging.

 

[Dude]

I also want to dictate how other people play the game. /s

 

[Xgya]

Recovering doesn't need to be standing still, just not being fully engaged in combat. Especially when the rate of regen will vary based upon the players build, gearing and feat selection.

If you make running part of what costs resources, then it's the equivalent of standing still to recover.

This isn't just "not fully engaged in combat" this is "actively try to disengage at a snail's pace".

Adding a stamina bar is de facto the equivalent of adding a cooldown to every potential action, even moving around.

 

[Arkat]

Endurance-based mechanics are definitely NOT fun.

No, thank you.

 

[RangerOne]

Many years ago a friend from work joined me in game. We were running kobold assault and I lost track of him. Found out he was hiding somewhere "waiting for my stamina to come back." I got him to the shrine and watched his back while he rested.

So no, we don't need endurance based game play.

 

[Owlbear]

Endurance-based mechanics are definitely NOT fun.

No, thank you.

They can be fun in the right games like Dark Souls. DDO is not a game like Dark Souls though. Even in Dark Souls you eventually zerg through the level to the bossfight though. Endurance mechanic didn't do a lot for that...

 

[Baahb3]

If they want to bring back Interdependent play, then just change how things operate in Reaper.

Add 100 PRR per skull to half the mobs.
Add 100 MRR per skull to the other half of the mobs.
Add 25 SR to 1/3 of the mobs per skull. Add +10 dodge per skull to 1/3 the mobs and +10 Missile Deflection per skull to 1/3 the mobs.
Add +10 Fortitude per skull to 1/3 of the mobs, then +10 Reflex to 1/3 and +10 Will to 1/3.

Just make it so that one DL cannot face roll R10. Make it so that you need CC to whittle down defenses. Make it so you need healers to keep folks alive. Make it so ranged folks cannot kill everything within seconds of encounter start.

The tools are already available to make things more difficult, interdependent and the tools to overcome the things mentioned above. We don't need another mechanic to worry about.

And with the above things, they could get rid of the caster nerf in high skulls.

Just my opinion.

 

[Bravgji]

either everyone has to suffer endurance, or no one should. unironically there is no in-between.

 

[Smokewolf]

either everyone has to suffer endurance, or no one should. unironically there is no in-between.

And that was my point really... Martials don't have to manage anything except for maybe aggro and positioning. IMO its about time that changed.

 

[Owlbear]

And that was my point really... Martials don't have to manage anything except for maybe aggro and positioning. IMO its about time that changed.

Sounds like dnd to me where casters have to manage spellslots and martial classes don't

 

[Smokewolf]

Sounds like dnd to me where casters have to manage spellslots and martial classes don't

In DnD Martial / Casters are dependent on each other. Making the game play both balanced and engaging. Unfortunately, how Martials are currently played on DDO is neither.

 

[Blerkington]

And there in lies the problem... The speed-thru content or its boring mentality doesn't work for non-Martial builds under the current caster restrictions. Besides, the end result is that the gap between Martial and Caster will only continue to widen as time moves forward. Making the game all but unplayable for half the builds currently in existence.

Sure you'll be just fine as a Martial build, but what about the rest of the players that came to DDO specifically to play a spell caster?

All I ask with my suggestion is that you keep an open mind.

Look, I've played both martials and casters doing racials and gear farming at cap.

There certainly wasn't any standing around and doing nothing on a caster while doing either activity. It was quick and easy levelling in heroics. The whole purpose of my cold druid was to run quests quickly to farm gear. It was much faster than doing it on my main, a rogue assassin that just wasn't as good at AOE damage, didn't have sprint boost and wings.

Casters definitely do have problems in higher difficulty content and raids and with the absurdly bad itemisation issues they face. But they do not have problems running six person content on elite and low skulls. That is where they shine and that is also where the majority of activity in game takes place.

I would like to see real fixes to the problems casters face, but these threads are in danger of becoming caricatures of themselves when people start making hyperbolic claims like casters are completely unplayable.

 

[Smokewolf]

I would like to see real fixes to the problems casters face, but these threads are in danger of becoming caricatures of themselves when people start making hyperbolic claims like casters are completely unplayable.

The fact is that past Heroics, Casters are not desirable for grouping and raids. Which as you say, effectively makes them "unplayable" compared to most any Martial build. Hence the need for an endurance based system to force a much needed change in how people play. This isn't hyperbole, it's the reality that all Martials are ignoring as its too inconvenient for their own interests to be able to accept.