A very controversial suggestion.

[Smokewolf]

I know very few people will agree with me, but I believe DDO needs an endurance-based resource system.

For Martials, this would take the form of an endurance bar that is consumed by attacking, sprinting, and other physically demanding actions. The same concept would apply to Casters, except that magical actions would consume mana while physical actions consume endurance. Both resources would regenerate naturally over time, allowing players to recover between encounters without making shrines a requirement. (Especially for newer players)

The immediate effect would be to slow the current "zerg everything" playstyle without simply inflating monster hit points or adding yet another layer of artificial penalties to compensate. At the same time, Casters would regain the ability to unleash full burst damage when the situation demands it, then recover between encounters without being shackled to shrine placement. While in doing so, much of the justification for the ever-increasing Nerfs / Penalties against Casters simply disappears.

More importantly, it would bring back something that DDO has steadily lost over the years: Class Interdependence.

Players would once again need to work together, covering teammates while they recover instead of expecting everyone to maintain maximum damage output indefinitely. It would encourage groups to think about party composition instead of stacking nothing but the highest-DPS builds available. Parties built entirely around melee, or ranged damage would quickly discover that sacrificing support, crowd control, and survivability comes with real consequences.

While all that may sound like a step backward to some people. I see it as a return to what originally made DDO stand out from other MMOs: players filling complementary roles instead of every character trying to do everything all the time. (Often solo)

Side note: Yes, I know that variations of this idea have been proposed before. Under normal circumstances I'd probably agree that it would be too radical of a change. However, looking at the current state of the game and at SSG's historical reluctance to roll back bad design decisions, I honestly don't see a better path forward. Continuing to pile new systems and penalties on top of old mistakes isn't fixing the underlying problem. It's only making the game more and more convoluted while solving nothing.

Your creative comments and suggestions are welcome!

(Oh and please VOTE)

Cheers!

Smokewolf

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

No. Just, no.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

The fact is that past Heroics, Casters are not desirable for grouping and raids. Which as you say, effectively makes them "unplayable" compared to most any Martial build. Hence the need for an endurance based system to force a much needed change in how people play. This isn't hyperbole, it's the reality that all Martials are ignoring as it’s too inconvenient for their own interests to be able to accept.

This is only so for really bad players or for people who are dishonest.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

You could buy potions from the in game store with ddo points, or if you are very lucky find a lesser version of one in a chest. That's how casters do it anyway.

How about we have reaper melee stamina drop from killing reapers like casters for mana.

 

[DMtastic82]

People zerg because they want to TR quickly. If the XP becomes more efficient spamming lower difficulty quests with less downtime to wait for stamina to regen, they will shift towards that. This won't fix the zerging problem. The game lacks interdependence because the majority of people who play MMO's nowadays play solo. So, the game had to shift to accommodate what people wanted. Ultimately, if people wanted to group more, they would. There's nothing stopping them. Almost any quest is faster with a group, after all.

Also, this would be a nightmare for the dev team. They would have to rebalance every quest and every class and every ability, and probably introduce additional gear affixes across all levels of play to accommodate this.

 

[Kimbere]

Honestly, casters are so far behind at this point, it'd be simpler and easier for SSG to just get rid of the blue bar altogether and give casters unlimited spell points.

Even if SSG did that, casters still wouldn't/couldn't do as much DPS as melee and ranged, but at least they wouldn't have to worry about running out of spell points halfway through a raid.

SSG might need to slightly increase the cooldown on Ruin and G Ruin to compensate for the unlimited casting of it, but even that would only need a mild tweak (if any).

 

[Blerkington]

The fact is that past Heroics, Casters are not desirable for grouping and raids. Which as you say, effectively makes them "unplayable" compared to most any Martial build. Hence the need for an endurance based system to force a much needed change in how people play. This isn't hyperbole, it's the reality that all Martials are ignoring as its too inconvenient for their own interests to be able to accept.

We are agreed that casters do need help in some areas of the game.

I don't know what they have in mind for spell damage in high reaper but I worry they will balance for the strongest builds and leave divines, warlocks and wizards in the lurch. They just don't seem to understand that nerfing epic strikes and the high reaper spell damage nerf had a much worse effect on weaker builds.

I also suspect they will be completely unwilling to revise their approach to gearing. Someone really needs to get it through his head that the number of channels and effects have been multiplied beyond reason and it's time to stop this madness.

However I do not agree that all caster builds need help in every part of the game, nor do I think the best way to make casters better is to make other playstyles worse.

I think overexaggeration of how bad this problem is doesn't help. And this us vs them mentality, ie, I'm unhappy about how my favourite playstyle works so let's ruin all the others, is just so counterproductive. I think the Europeans call that a crabs in a bucket attitude and it does noone any good.

Anyway, although my main is a melee rogue I have other characters that are casters. I would like for things to improve for people like you who main casters so they feel like they can perform well in all parts of the game. So we should be directing our displeasure at SSG not each other.

 

[Indyanna]

Absolute hard pass on this

There are ways to make high content more interesting - run without a full group etc

If they ever implemented this you would lose almost the whole player base, many run pots and not everyone has endless hours to play the game to level

A balance pass is far more needed over a stamina bar

 

[Igognito]

I see some possible merit.
1) only in reaper difficulties.
2) only when you are in combat (like existing in combat mechanism)
3) moving in combat reduces a stamina bar. If that bar goes to 0 you become fatigued.
4) when out of combat bar auto resets (no show recovery just full recovery)

Result: you can't easily run away from combats... This is partially also a mechanism in dungeon alert you just need to be hit once.
Dd will bypass this, but at least it returns you at start and forces you to wait until you are forgotten by the monsters.

Attention should be given to not affect players that play normally. Movement in combat should remain viable just not unlimited.

 

[Custodian]

How about we have reaper melee stamina drop from killing reapers like casters for mana.

Good idea, only it shouldn't be anywhere enough stamina if you play above R1, enough to swing their swords once should do.

 

[Sylvado]

Your suggestion would make sense without the 200+ Past Lifes and without the endless repetition of the game. Zerging exists because of the grinding exists. Your suggestion wont solve this problem but creates more stress for the old time players. What we need is a catch up system or Past Life sharing among alts or anything which drives away the focus from zerging and put the focus back on playing/team play. Your suggestion just an annoying block mechanism and will force the players who wont quit to find other ways to zerg. No offense.

You don't have to grind, you can just play.

 

[Uska]

absolutely not

 

[Smokewolf]

Another question: How do U imagine to kill a 70+ million HP raid boss with this mechanic? Swinging weapons exhausting melees and then in the middle of the fight we just run away to regen?

Bosses only have such inflated hitpoints to cope with Martials that have almost no restrictions. Meanwhile Caster DPS isnt even remotely comparible much-less sustainable vs the same Boss.

 

[Denis Iron]

They could just add the same mechanic like self-healing in reaper. While in combat, you cannot attack 100 hits per minute (you can, but not full time, till stamina drops). Leave the battle and stamina regen will raise. It will look like more as assassinate or bluff cooldown.

 

[Phaedra]

The immediate effect would be to slow the current "zerg everything" playstyle without simply inflating monster hit points or adding yet another layer of artificial penalties to compensate. At the same time, Casters would regain the ability to unleash full burst damage when the situation demands it, then recover between encounters without being shackled to shrine placement. While in doing so, much of the justification for the ever-increasing Nerfs / Penalties against Casters simply disappears.

City of Heroes has an endurance system, and nearly every active ability consumes endurance, (rare exceptions consume HP or boost endurance), endgame builds only run into endurance issues when they encounter endurance drains, or intentionally go "full burn" and most carry at least a couple recovery options (abilities, consumables, etc) to get back in the fight fast afterwards.

The real effect this system would have is to shift the meta to builds that don't run into endurance issues. Maybe that brings down max DPS a little, but probably not much.

Even if it were to be implemented exactly as you intend, it looks like a much bigger hit to hybrids, who are already underperforming in DDO due to the focus on hyperspecializing characters to a single role being the current meta.

 

[Zvdegor]

You don't have to grind, you can just play.

If you just can play, why the suggestion to punish those who play differentlyy? Hmm?

 

[Owlbear]

The fact is that past Heroics, Casters are not desirable for grouping and raids. Which as you say, effectively makes them "unplayable" compared to most any Martial build. Hence the need for an endurance based system to force a much needed change in how people play. This isn't hyperbole, it's the reality that all Martials are ignoring as its too inconvenient for their own interests to be able to accept.

This is a caster problem. You don't have to change all the other classes and implement new mechanics for everyone else to balance this. Also this is a totally different problem from the zerg problem that won't be fixed with an endurance system.
Caster Problem: balance caster damage and SP usage so they won't be left out anymore (for instance in Reaper make Lost Souls more useful, drop more and give more SP)
Zerg Problem: incentivise group play and doing optionals/sidequests to fully complete quests.

 

[Mokune]

I love this idea. Mostly because it screws everyone equally, slows the game down and most people will hate it.

Nobody needs more, faster. Hell, nobody needs anything they think they want. Folks ignore the FACT that anything they want or think they want is brain-washed BS. Corporate exploitative manipulation.

RESIST!!!

 

[Driaza]

No to this please

Been playing almost 20 years and this is a no no for me

Probs stop playing

 

[fiwabar]

However, looking at the current state of the game and at SSG's historical reluctance to roll back bad design decisions, I honestly don't see a better path forward. Continuing to pile new systems and penalties on top of old mistakes isn't fixing the underlying problem.

I'm afraid you've just provided the answer to your own suggestion right here—it's much simpler, and I'm afraid that's exactly why they won't do it.
I support your idea; I’ve actually mentioned this myself before, though only within the guild and not on the forum, that stamina/fatigue would be an interesting addition (it would also change how spells like “Weaves of Fatigue” work). I remember something like this from Diablo 2, for example, where running for too long and then fighting meant you might not be able to escape from a monster in a tough situation. That’s the lack of “zerging” you were writing about. And I think it’s a good idea—and you’ve listed all the reasons why, in my opinion. I just have serious concerns about implementing it, even if the developers were to take on that challenge.

 

[seph1roth5]

Could not be more against it lol. Stamina is annoying in any game. Oh look, I can't jump or climb anymore. Oops I can't even run anymore have to walk for 8 sec while it recharges.