Alternatives to RNG?
- Thread starter Elminster
- Start date
Teh_Troll
Master of Baiting
Which is one of the BEST THINGS EVER introduced to DDO.
Drunken.dx
Well-known member
One pool, one BiS item.
jokes aside, DDO is ironically best option when it comes to games with RNG loot mechanics, with raid runes, 20th completion, end various other options of guaranteed loot (sadly mostly in outdated content).
Only game that had guaranteed "drop" was Genshin impact with it's "pity system" where you're guaranteed desirable item after certain number of pulls., and let's just say that AS re-rolling MD wilderness is cheaper option, unless you farm primogen (premium currency).
If you think MD rare loot is bad, try games like Diablo 2 Resurrected or Path of exile in SSF runs.
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vryxnr
Well-known member
There are several ways different games deal with loot.
Static drops: specific chests always contain the same items, specific enemies always drop the same items when defeated. Period. Many older RPGs do use static drops.
Random drops: as in, completely random. It doesn't matter what you kill or where you are, every/any enemy has a chance of dropping any/every item. Some ARPGs lean towards this method.
Most games fall in between those extremes, using some combination of both. Some lean more one way or another. Diablo 3 for example is very close to pure random, but there are a few things that are limited to specific actions (act bounty specific items/mats for example are exclusive to those events, but most everything else is completely random from anything/everything). While many older RPGs used purely static drops for most things, but could still have some minor random elements. Baldur's Gate 1, early Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games, The Legend of Zelda, for example, would have mostly static drops: specific chests would always drop the same specific items, specific bosses would always drop the same thing, but random encounter enemies might have their own very small loot table and would have a chance to drop consumables (ie: goblins have a 20% chance to drop a regular potion when killed, while a red dragon has a 5% chance to drop a Red Fang that casts Firaga when used as an item, as a random example)
DDO is also a hybrid system. There are some items that are guaranteed (via specific end rewards lists), but most items are tied to specific chests/quests, and you have a chance (random) to get said specific item from that end chest, however it must be noted that they are tied to that specific quest/chest, so you can target farm them. You want a specific item, you go to a specific chest that can drop it. As mentioned, some named items always appear in end rewards lists. Some named items appear every 3rd end rewards list (guaranteed static drop after 3 tries, random drop every other try). Some items can be worked towards via runes, and some raids still have a 20th completion list as well. Not every quest/item is a part of the semi-static drops, and are always random drops, but are still tied to specific quests/chests. A very very few items are completely random and have a small chance to drop from any chests. Then there are the plethora of crafting systems (not all are tied to raids either) for customization.
Static drops: specific chests always contain the same items, specific enemies always drop the same items when defeated. Period. Many older RPGs do use static drops.
Random drops: as in, completely random. It doesn't matter what you kill or where you are, every/any enemy has a chance of dropping any/every item. Some ARPGs lean towards this method.
Most games fall in between those extremes, using some combination of both. Some lean more one way or another. Diablo 3 for example is very close to pure random, but there are a few things that are limited to specific actions (act bounty specific items/mats for example are exclusive to those events, but most everything else is completely random from anything/everything). While many older RPGs used purely static drops for most things, but could still have some minor random elements. Baldur's Gate 1, early Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games, The Legend of Zelda, for example, would have mostly static drops: specific chests would always drop the same specific items, specific bosses would always drop the same thing, but random encounter enemies might have their own very small loot table and would have a chance to drop consumables (ie: goblins have a 20% chance to drop a regular potion when killed, while a red dragon has a 5% chance to drop a Red Fang that casts Firaga when used as an item, as a random example)
DDO is also a hybrid system. There are some items that are guaranteed (via specific end rewards lists), but most items are tied to specific chests/quests, and you have a chance (random) to get said specific item from that end chest, however it must be noted that they are tied to that specific quest/chest, so you can target farm them. You want a specific item, you go to a specific chest that can drop it. As mentioned, some named items always appear in end rewards lists. Some named items appear every 3rd end rewards list (guaranteed static drop after 3 tries, random drop every other try). Some items can be worked towards via runes, and some raids still have a 20th completion list as well. Not every quest/item is a part of the semi-static drops, and are always random drops, but are still tied to specific quests/chests. A very very few items are completely random and have a small chance to drop from any chests. Then there are the plethora of crafting systems (not all are tied to raids either) for customization.
Grimscore_Riffstorm
Shreds Licks Way Beyond His Capabilities
DDO isn't pvp based, but I liked how in Warhammer Online you could purchase gear with PvP points. Similarly, in WoW you could use honor to buy stuff at one point (haven't played since Burning Crusade so I'm out of date on that one), but having an alternative currency is typically the way it is done other than RNG. Ways like trading collectables like the ingots in Borderlands and/or tokens in Menechtarun are also great.
Phaedra
Well-known member
In City of Heroes, Any "item"(enhancement) can drop off any enemy at that level range, with "epic" crafting recipes having a chance to drop off any level 50+ enemy (max level is 50, with a potential +3 level adjust from filling out your Incarnate XP, max enemy level is 54+7 raid boss). All loot drops directly into your inventory, which isn't infinite but is enough to hold all the trash loot you'd get from several quests without selling off, and enough crafting recipes to start with a few you're waiting to build and play for a night without filling up. There's banking/storage as well, for stuff you want to save but not use right away. Nothing is bound to character or account.
Single player games is different story.
MMO is designed to play it multiple times for a long time.
paddymaxson
Deliberately obtuse
In recent Warframe updates they basically made it so every time you run a mission that drops an item you may want you also in some ay or another earn a currency with which you can buy said item so say you run the mission 60 times to get all the parts of a warframe if you were truly unlucky all those times then you would have enough currency to buy the parts. DDO did effectively do this with ferrocrystal weapons I suppose.
That might be a bit more awkward in a system where there could be 20 items tied to a specific mission/quest though and it does sort of all break down if say 10 missions share the same currency like ferrocrystal because it means you can just skip the annoying mission and still get the drops from said mission. I'd say it's better if the specific mission has its own currency for this type of system but for DDO's interface having every quest have its own discrete currency would be ludicrous
Elminster
Sage of Shadowdale
I’m trying to say is that perhaps the items should be tier’d (which is effectively what it is now with mythics and reaper bonuses.)
There is a sub-category of items that are slightly (almost subtly so better) than the base item that the whales can go after and these will be ULTRA-levels of grind with slot machine mechanics galore.(maybe it’s just a really sweeeeeet cosmetic).
But what most people will try to go after will be the base items which will be much more predictable (aka Ravenloft/Sharn item level) and attainable.
There is a sub-category of items that are slightly (almost subtly so better) than the base item that the whales can go after and these will be ULTRA-levels of grind with slot machine mechanics galore.(maybe it’s just a really sweeeeeet cosmetic).
But what most people will try to go after will be the base items which will be much more predictable (aka Ravenloft/Sharn item level) and attainable.
paddymaxson
Deliberately obtuse
Honestly I do think in terms of reaper upgrades there should be a Reaper currency that's not nonsense, possible a low mid and high reaper currency where the best reaper bonus purchases can only be bought with high. That way you can indeed grind out the absolute best version of the item even if it takes many tries.
But frankly I think if DDO did that it'd be a hilariously unreasonable system like 400 R10 quests for a single upgrade or something like that.
Positive thinking
Well-known member
I heard that game is completely free to play and has incredibly diverse build variables with amazing lag free live action play?
Elminster
Sage of Shadowdale
Or you could purchase something to cut that down to 50 R10’s.
Again, I don’t mind them putting “unobtainable” items or “obtainable only through massive DDO store purchases aka shards for any sane person” items in the game as long as said item is not unique enough to be mandatory for a build or just completely OP (must be an extension of an existing item… a very slight extension .. like +1 or something or maybe that and a unique cosmetic).
Phaedra
Well-known member
And in the last 6ish years, they've added a lot of story content and depth to the game, as well as "open world" areas and some other cool stuff.
But if you decide to try it out and play with other people, you will have the equivalent of zergers finishing missions while you're still figuring out which direction to go.
Also "diverse build variables" is a bit of an overstatement. It's more like if you could freely switch between classes/trees, and a saved gearset for each one, but within a class (Frame) you don't choose between abilities, just how you gear them out.
paddymaxson
Deliberately obtuse
I mean, it's not completely free to play, but there is nothing that affects player power that CANNOT be ground out yourself and the grind is pretty tolerable. You certainly don't have anything that affects player power where the only way to get it free is to spend 120+ hours on the one thing.
Without wanting to sound like too much of a fanboy, I don't think anyone does a better job of running a free game than Digital Extremes, Warframe is very fair - they even added extra free warframe/weapon slots in december to make it easier on new players
Edit: As Phaedra said - I would v much recommend as a new player playing a little bit either solo or with some friends who are also new. In Warframe fast completion of missions is a skill and quite often high level players will be doing low level stuff and will get matchmade with you. They are there to complete the mission as fast as possible which can be pretty confusing if you're still learning to bullet jump
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