Analysis of the Elven Ranger

[Marshal_Lannes]

Is the problem with longbow the bows?

Leveling this time was starting to get to me. It's frustrating. I kept thinking, is this build broken? Content like Myth Drannor and Vecna wasn't fun. Hitting epics and at level 21, 22 and I was seriously considering TRing into a crossbow for a while because sometimes you can't fight the moonlight. It doesn't help that entry level Pin is a wretched Epic Strike. Then I hit L23 and equipped Pinion. Suddenly, everything changed. Now AOEs didn't damage mobs, it deleted them. Manyshot and Hunt's End deleted single targets. And it got me thinking, the problem with longbow leveling may not be the longbow so much, but the lack of hard hitting bows. The degree of flipping the switch from L22 to L23 is striking. I've gone from being annoyed with my damage to outkilling sorcerers with my AOE. Pinion brings everything together and I love my arsenal of shot types and the tools in my kit. None of this works without Pinion.

Pinion is easily the best in slot bow from 23 to 28. And sure, for some, those levels fly by in Epics (depending on how you level). That's not the point though, the point is Pinion makes the game about (an unscientific) 375% more fun with longbows. Why then aren't there more Pinions in the game? Unwavering Ardency somewhat functions like this, or at least it used to, but this was my weapon of choice in all those grueling Vecna and MD quests. I don't feel like it has kept up with the stat bloat new expansions have. Pinion is almost as old as Unwavering and remains glorious.

Bow experimentation isn't something I speak lightly about. I've tried almost every named longbow out there. Alright, I don't have a Golden Age longbow (heroic or legendary) so I can't speak to how that would perform. There are sweet spots where certain bows excel - the L8 Spectral Longbow for instance shines for a few levels. This is more of an observation over a solution. I don't have a solution. Named weapons, in heroics, are rare now. There are either generic versions such as Barovian, Fallen Age, etc or the Legendary named ones come from raids. Some ML 18 items came out in the Fred pack, but the shelf life on anything ML18 is so short there is little point in even designing them. They are too soft for epics and most characters are capping within two hours when they are 18.

I'm convinced the main reason THF was so popular for so long was because the heroic Sword of Shadows existed at ML10. Pinion is that quality of a weapon. It's just a shame we have to wait until L23 before we get to have some fun. I'm not sure everyone will stick around for that payoff.

 

[Jasparius]

I will be hitting 20 soon and am using an Epic Elemental Longbow of Earth which has a bunch of Ranged Power filigrees in it so it will be interesting to see how it goes. Im hoping I dont need to swap out to another bow on my way to 30, because I currently dont have any and really dont want to farm.

 

[WielderofGigantus]

I will be hitting 20 soon and am using an Epic Elemental Longbow of Earth which has a bunch of Ranged Power filigrees in it so it will be interesting to see how it goes. Im hoping I dont need to swap out to another bow on my way to 30, because I currently dont have any and really dont want to farm.

My go to for level 20 bow is https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Thornlord as it can be gotten pretty easily with Antique Bronze Tokens and has an expanded crit range.

 

[Jasparius]

My go to for level 20 bow is https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Thornlord as it can be gotten pretty easily with Antique Bronze Tokens and has an expanded crit range.

Ahh good point. I will try out my old Earth bow and see how it goes. I'd rather not lose all of the filigrees I put in it as a few are rares.

Cheers.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

I've run the Earth bow and didn't enjoy it. ML20 Spectral Bow doesn't feel great either. Shadowstrike ML 21 is an option, which is the best of the three in my opinion. My filligrees are in Pinion so yours will elevate any ML20 bow. I haven't done enough experimenting with Thornlord to have an opinion yet.

 

[WielderofGigantus]

Ahh good point. I will try out my old Earth bow and see how it goes. I'd rather not lose all of the filigrees I put in it as a few are rares.

Cheers.

You can always get some Sentient Toolkits to extract the filigrees. They drop semi frequently from legendary quests, and it feels much more frequent from Saltmarsh.

 

[Supot]

Hey, i'm wondering what to do with my first life 20 Ranger Deepwood sniper that I keep at cap. I want to have a "Decent" ranged character to be able to perform in Raids, or atleast R4-R6 soloing but I think Archer DPS is just too far behind Inquis or Throwers.
Regarding defenses, they do have decent reflex and evasion if DEX based. Self healing, PRR, could be better.

Is there any reason NOT to TR into a 17 Fvs, 2 Arti, 1 Barb, or a 16 arti, 2x 2x, or some other split of Inquis?

Is there any reason to stay 20 Ranger utility wise?

 

[Jasparius]

Hey, i'm wondering what to do with my first life 20 Ranger Deepwood sniper that I keep at cap. I want to have a "Decent" ranged character to be able to perform in Raids, or atleast R4-R6 soloing but I think Archer DPS is just too far behind Inquis or Throwers.
Regarding defenses, they do have decent reflex and evasion if DEX based. Self healing, PRR, could be better.

Is there any reason NOT to TR into a 17 Fvs, 2 Arti, 1 Barb, or a 16 arti, 2x 2x, or some other split of Inquis?

Is there any reason to stay 20 Ranger utility wise?

You should be getting a lot more DPS now that Precise Shot gives 1.5 x main stat to damage rather than 1 x main stat.

Have you noticed a difference?

You could also switch to a crossbow and go Inquis for a good increase in DPS for zero effort.

 

[Supot]

You should be getting a lot more DPS now that Precise Shot gives 1.5 x main stat to damage rather than 1 x main stat.

Have you noticed a difference?

You could also switch to a crossbow and go Inquis for a good increase in DPS for zero effort.

Yes, there is some difference.

I think the main thing with ranger is just No Burst.
Imagine, Inquis and Repeater have NHB and Fusilade. Throwers have 10k stars and Multitude of Missiles.
Yet, they decides to just remove Manyshot and replace it with something crappy. It just makes no sense that they thought it was bad design when literally every other ranged type has a similar action boost.

Regarding switching to Inquis, I don't mind TR'ing. I think Arti is a great choice because it gets everything a ranger has with so much more.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

Inquisitive is more DPS than any longbow build. I've played a straight 20 Dark Hunter, and you still have "good" DPS. The reason I don't like Dark Hunter as much as a Horizon Walker (I'm assuming you have points in DH and DWS) build is Horizon Walker adds a lot of survivability. All archer ranger variants are somewhat glass cannons (no 25% HPs in trees, not great modern PRR/MRR), but with increased dodge and Misty Step, the HW variants have been far more survivable for me. I never die in linear R10 quests (quests where mobs are coming at you) because of my defenses and Salt pretty much slowing mobs so they never reach me. 360 attack quests are problematic, but you can at least Misty Step and tumble and you should be used to tumbling now with Trick Shot. HW is also better defensively than Inquisitive, and Inquisitive has even fewer HPs. I'm working on trying to theorycraft a Monk/HW archer that would be even more defensive, but it seems shuriken is going to always be better.

However, self-healing sucks, one of the major drawbacks. 17 FVS Inquisitive solves this. Regarding bursts - right now you have Hunt's End plus whatever Epic Strike you like, and while these aren't bursts, they are big DPS deleters. And the Paladin version I currently run also has Exalted Smite, which drops healing to the whole party on hit, which is nice for raids. Despite all this, Inquisitive is better, and one of the reasons I've asked for Inquisitive DPS to be adjusted.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

no 25% HPs in trees

And the Paladin version I currently run also has Exalted Smite, which drops healing to the whole party on hit, which is nice for raids.

What version you run? Pally have +25% to HP at lvl3 in SD or at lvl5 in KotC. You can also run 2/6/12 Pally/Monk/DH and have it in NiS tree over AAF. Anyway, as Ranger you have at least 3 free TWF feats, provide +75% bonus to Heroic Durability. My shuri-thrower with 12 lvl DH have about 330 HP more than pure Monk version only because these 3 feats.
Self-healing is problem, yea.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

What version you run? Pally have +25% to HP at lvl3 in SD or at lvl5 in KotC. You can also run 2/6/12 Pally/Monk/DH and have it in NiS tree over AAF.

You need to be in medium armor (so no evasion) to use the Sacred Defense stance unless you are a Sacred Fist. You also don't have the APs to afford it without severely damaging your DPS. So you basically have to give up a ton of offense and evasion for those 25% HPs. Not viable. You can take 25% HPs from T5 Ninja Spy at a cost of 10 ranged power and 10 stacks of archer's focus. However, if you aren't going T5 in HW, you again severely gimp your bow build, and I don't see any version where this longbow works better than a straight-up shuriken build using Ninja Spy. My current ranged build is 11 Rogue/6 Ranger/3 Paladin. I'm likely going to try out a Ninja Spy shuriken build to see how it compares.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

I don't see any version where this longbow works better than a straight-up shuriken build using Ninja Spy.

Oh, bow can be hard successfully compete with shuri-build, you right, even after last buff.

My current ranged build is 11 Rogue/6 Ranger/3 Paladin. I'm likely going to try out a Ninja Spy shuriken build to see how it compares.

This build currently best shuri-build i think, you can want try it. 8)

 

[Supot]

Inquisitive is more DPS than any longbow build. I've played a straight 20 Dark Hunter, and you still have "good" DPS. The reason I don't like Dark Hunter as much as a Horizon Walker (I'm assuming you have points in DH and DWS) build is Horizon Walker adds a lot of survivability. All archer ranger variants are somewhat glass cannons (no 25% HPs in trees, not great modern PRR/MRR), but with increased dodge and Misty Step, the HW variants have been far more survivable for me. I never die in linear R10 quests (quests where mobs are coming at you) because of my defenses and Salt pretty much slowing mobs so they never reach me. 360 attack quests are problematic, but you can at least Misty Step and tumble and you should be used to tumbling now with Trick Shot. HW is also better defensively than Inquisitive, and Inquisitive has even fewer HPs. I'm working on trying to theorycraft a Monk/HW archer that would be even more defensive, but it seems shuriken is going to always be better.

However, self-healing sucks, one of the major drawbacks. 17 FVS Inquisitive solves this. Regarding bursts - right now you have Hunt's End plus whatever Epic Strike you like, and while these aren't bursts, they are big DPS deleters. And the Paladin version I currently run also has Exalted Smite, which drops healing to the whole party on hit, which is nice for raids. Despite all this, Inquisitive is better, and one of the reasons I've asked for Inquisitive DPS to be adjusted.

Thanks for the reply.

I keep studying the Horizon Walker and comparing it to Deepwood Sniper although I have only tried HW upto T4. Is it really a better tree?
Defense and misty step aside, Deepwood seems like better DPS. Am i missing something?

Another thing that Inquis have is Improved Uncanny dodge, which gives defense and +50 ranged power. I would need to splash 8 rogue for that 2 min cooldown or 4 rogue for a 3 min cooldown.

 

[Supot]

By the way, how does Exalted Smite heal the party?

 

[Fisto Mk I]

By the way, how does Exalted Smite heal the party?

T1 DC Divine Smite. T5 also buff whole party if you go deeper in DC.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

Thanks for the reply.

I keep studying the Horizon Walker and comparing it to Deepwood Sniper although I have only tried HW upto T4. Is it really a better tree?
Defense and misty step aside, Deepwood seems like better DPS. Am i missing something?

Another thing that Inquis have is Improved Uncanny dodge, which gives defense and +50 ranged power. I would need to splash 8 rogue for that 2 min cooldown or 4 rogue for a 3 min cooldown.

The primary attractiveness of HW is that you can be MC and get the full capstone in the tree, which you can't do in DWS. Even then, comparing the two T5s, you get +5 damage in DWS while in HW, you get full BAB. Both get the same crit profile bonus. I'd rather have higher to hit in epics. You get 10% more doubleshot in DWS, but HW gives you 24 more ranged power. Devestating Shot is excellent. Banish the Quarry doesn't need to be marked and works without the mark, so it's a one-button banish with a very high DC. It's pretty close. More a personal preference and what you are looking for vs one being better than the other.

I always have Uncanny Dodge because I'm always heavily split into Rogue for the sneak attack dice.

 

[Supot]

The primary attractiveness of HW is that you can be MC and get the full capstone in the tree, which you can't do in DWS. Even then, comparing the two T5s, you get +5 damage in DWS while in HW, you get full BAB. Both get the same crit profile bonus. I'd rather have higher to hit in epics. You get 10% more doubleshot in DWS, but HW gives you 24 more ranged power. Devestating Shot is excellent. Banish the Quarry doesn't need to be marked and works without the mark, so it's a one-button banish with a very high DC. It's pretty close. More a personal preference and what you are looking for vs one being better than the other.

I always have Uncanny Dodge because I'm always heavily split into Rogue for the sneak attack dice.

so Corner the quarry will banish any extraplanar..Do you put wisdom and Listen augment in your gear or other exceptional Listen skill items to bring it up? 1d20+ listen doesnt seem high considering Listen is from Wisdom.


So with IPS, you could one shot a group of extraplanars? Would it be able to wipe the Devils in Devils to Play Quest with Ips? Trying to think of where extraplanar creatures are abundant to benefit from Quarry.