Analysis of the Elven Ranger
- Thread starter Marshal_Lannes
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Marshal_Lannes
Well-known member
1 Rogue (skills), then either 2 Rogue and 6 Ranger or 6 Ranger and your second rogue. Depends on how important evasion is to you at low levels. I find I don't need it and taking the 2nd rogue at Level 7 lets you top off your trapping skills nicely. You want Manyshot as soon as possible (IE Feywild). That's the other advantage of going Rogue/6 ranger/rogue. After that, get your Paladin imbue. Then rest rogue. If you're doing it with barbarian, I'd go Rogue/6 Ranger/Rogue/2 Barbarian so I get the sprint boost, which helps a lot in leveling. BAB doesn't really matter here since you're taking all the standard ranged feats, which you already qualify for.
Isilion
Active member
Thanks. I'm assuming (dangerous) this is also a 'normal' ranger rather than a DH? Are we talking low level AoE ('normal ranger') vs sneak attack dice for DH. I'm wondering if the sneak attack dice are more beneficial once the low / mid heroics is over with. Also more AP to spread if going DH.
unbongwah
Well-known member
Rogue 12 is necessary for Improved Sneak Attack (+3d6 sneak attack); rogue 13 gets you +1d6 SA and a 2nd rogue feat. Sprint Boost can come from Falconry or Tempest.
Marshal_Lannes
Well-known member
If you want to stick with something more straightforward, a pure L20 DH is a viable choice. I've run it and it's solid. The splits I'm talking about here are regular ranger. I've found AA is a nice tree for low/mid heroic leveling. There are many viable DH splits people do as well. I would suggest trying it out because there are dozens of variations with the same theme (many in this thread) - maximizing sneak attack and imbue. Pure DH will be sneak attack focused. Splits would try to pump up imbue damage.
There are many, many variations, and I encourage people to try different splits because what you want and enjoy the feel of in gameplay will vary. Going for sprint in Tempest means you get +3 reflex saves (and 3 more vs traps), and then two APs in fairly useless skill points, the cores give you nothing. FB gives you diehard, 20 HPs, and 10 HAMP, die harder, and useless skill points plus 10% movement speed for being a barbarian and some DR. So you're more defensive and faster. Is that better than 3 SA die (and the feat)? Up to the player. Falconry gives one more favored enemy (although you probably take Animal anyway but this does lead to sprint) along with 15 HAMP. Choices!! That's why I love archer splits in DDO, you have to make real tough build choices, and there is no clear cut best way.
It's a shame that the Shadowdancer mantle is simply not a viable choice for ranged builds. They've made it a caster tree for some reason? I'm a bit sick of having to play Shiradi on all bow builds with little variety, but Hunt's End seems like a no-alternative best-in-slot, and same for the mantle. Are there other mantles that people are running and that are actually useful for bow builds?
Pure DH + DWS is a sneak attack god in mid-heroics. 10d6 SA at level 10 and more after 12 with Opportune Moment + Smoke Bomb. Limited AOE compared to AA seems to be the only major downside.
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Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Lolwut?!
SD mandatory choice for any competitive ranged build, at least 21 AP (more - better). Core provide more damage output than shiradi, and SD epic strike provide permanent bonus to damage with DI/Paranoia. Free Evasion, Nightshield, -30% Threat very good too.
Sorry, I meant to talk about the mantle specifically. Yes, low-tier SD stuff is good, but the mantle is lacking as well as most tier 4/5 options (as per OP). Shiradi mantle is much better output, and Hunt's End is mandatory. Last life I tried to to SD T5 and ended up having to respec to Shiradi T5 with an SD splash. Wondering if there are any alternatives.
The Epic Strike is decent as an extra source of AOE but also wondering if there are other / better options. Shiradi's Pin is more of a CC option. LD? But I haven't been able to make it work effectively.
Spook
Ghostly Troll
Fatesinger for the epic strike (also threat reduction)
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Not AoE but decent, yea.
RangerOne
Well-known member
All right, so this one is still kicking around, I'll comment.
I hate dark hunter. Why I chose it for my current life is beyond me because I knew I hated it. Fell back to Falconry although I was going to try tempest.
For epics I have gravitated to Dreadnaught and Shiradi.
I hate dark hunter. Why I chose it for my current life is beyond me because I knew I hated it. Fell back to Falconry although I was going to try tempest.
For epics I have gravitated to Dreadnaught and Shiradi.
Why'd you hate it? Wondering because I'm personally loving it - finally I can play the best kind of ranger with trapping skills without splashing rogue. The DH tree also synergizes with the best ranger tree (aka DWS) a lot better than AA. Only nitpick I have is the nonsensical medium armor as a not-so-great tradeoff for no evasion (and general lack of suitable medium armors / sets).
And curious about your experience with Dreadnaught - how is it for ranged?
RangerOne
Well-known member
Dark hunter is great at giving trapping skills easily. Usually I splash one level of rogue. But the one level of rogue is superior because that gives UMD which can then be upped a full point each level. With DH it is only a half.
I hate curative admixtures. They always seem to shoot off into the ether at critical moments and you don't always have the time to choose yourself as a target. (On the other hand they can hit a mob of undead at distance so there is a tradeoff.)
The wolf (which was its main selling point, rangers can finally get an animal) is next to useless. The only pet I have ever found to be even slightly worth the effort is the skeletal warrior that mages can get.
Dreadnaught has been great. Dire shot gives you an AOE which combined with paralyzing arrows from AA will freeze an entire mob. From AA the Inferno Arrows (which are low damage comparatively but short cooldown so they can be constantly fired) and Dire Shot mean you can shooting AOE almost constantly which finally starts to bring rangers up to the level of other room clearing classes.
I hate curative admixtures. They always seem to shoot off into the ether at critical moments and you don't always have the time to choose yourself as a target. (On the other hand they can hit a mob of undead at distance so there is a tradeoff.)
The wolf (which was its main selling point, rangers can finally get an animal) is next to useless. The only pet I have ever found to be even slightly worth the effort is the skeletal warrior that mages can get.
Dreadnaught has been great. Dire shot gives you an AOE which combined with paralyzing arrows from AA will freeze an entire mob. From AA the Inferno Arrows (which are low damage comparatively but short cooldown so they can be constantly fired) and Dire Shot mean you can shooting AOE almost constantly which finally starts to bring rangers up to the level of other room clearing classes.
My observation is, if anything, the DH is almost unfairly better than rogue at trapping. At least for the less experienced players. It gives you tons of skill points for free so you barely need trapping gear, and the auto-find is great if you don't know exactly where the boxes are. The only downside is the lack of evasion for the few traps where the boxes are right in the middle of traps (e.g. VoN). So it's kinda like Artificer, I guess.
The UMD is a valid point, though I guess it's personal preference on how early you want viable DCs. You'll still get enough in epics incl. +3 UMD from the tree. I guess the tradeoff is, do you want to waste skill points on x2 UMD every level with a rogue splash, or do you want to waste AP on +UMD.
The wolf surprised me with how effective it is in heroics (through level ~15 at least). You do have to keep an eye on it, but if you go up the Enhancement tree it also provides decent DPS. I only wish the gear on the pet worked properly, then it'd be a force to be reckoned with. At least I managed to get a permanent Fire Shield on it lol. And then there's the added bonus of the wolf finding traps for you, which is just fantastic.
TY for the feedback on Dreadnought, I should try this. I did use the SD epic strike in a similar fashion, together with Inferno and DWS Devastating Shot for a 1-2-3 AOE opener. I do have to say that DWS is the superior ranger T5 / core, but AA is definitely worth splashing unless you're going Dark Hunter. Frankly, if I had unlimited time / racial AP, I'd go elf DH then get racial AA, DH and DWS
But that's probably not very practical.P.S. I'm yet to get to epics on this life, but i anticipate dropping the wolf at higher levels in favor of Watchful Eye feat.
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RangerOne
Well-known member
Running drow right now and did not realize it has a innate version of watchful eye. It has been great. DWS has almost too many thing going, but that is a me thing. I'm old and crotchety and don't like a lot of buttons. It was the only way I could get over 100 standing doubleshot until I got the set from dread. Going to play around with things now that I am reaching level 12, but I will be returning to human next anyway.
Thanks for tuning into the Qrvar/RangerOne show. We'll be here all week.
Thanks for tuning into the Qrvar/RangerOne show. We'll be here all week.
Marshal_Lannes
Well-known member
Dire Shot is not a competitive Epic Strike. The main problem with LD is that both Dire Charge and Shot are dramatically subpar for a weapons-focused tree. I suspect it's because pre-ED revamp, Dire Charge was considered OP, so they shoved it in here after nerfs, then went ahead and gave multiple classes/trees mass stun abilities.