Arborea vs. Etheral vs. Astral Scions

[Nickodeamous]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about switching things up for my scion. I always run in Arborea, but lately I've been thinking to myself, what is best for what I run? I'm maxed out on reapers and lives, so I really only run raids nowadays, with occasional high skulls with friends when I feel like it. I've heard Ethereal is better DPS than Arborea and good for Raids. I've also heard that Astral is the way to go for a pure monk, which I am. (I've used both in the past). Ive run some numbers and I cant see how one is much better than the other. The +'s and -'s seem to offset.

So...

what do you guys think? what's your favorite? and why? What do you run, raids, reapers?

I just used Fred to change to Ethereal, and I honestly can't tell a difference. lol.

Thanks!
Nico

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

I think the answer here, like so often in DDO, is, it depends...

The difference between Arborea and Ethereal for me is principally the 15MP and +2 Weapon Enchantment Vs 6SAD (difference is effectively 5SAD as one is pretty much offset by the imbue in Arborea).

Ethereal also has some nice additional features.

I switched to Ethereal to try it out, but switched back to Arborea within the same day.

The SA damage was nice, scaling as it does with 150% MP, and "normal" DPS was a bit better, but the fact those SAD didn't crit proved too significant for my particular build which leans into burst damage using adrenaline crits and high crit multipliers, and overall that 15MP and +2 just hurt too much to miss where I needed it.

Other builds though, who go more for sustained DPS, may well find that balance reversed.

Astral offering 8%DS on a centred build can be really nice too, but that depends on how much DS you already have as it caps at 100%. With reaper enhancement bonus I hit cap when I most need it anyway, but could see it being really useful in non-reaper questing raids, if I were a centred build. Again it has some nice other features too. I didn't try it though.

So I think it really does depend on your build and how you approach your damage profile in different scenarios. I don't think there is a simple maxim here, which is good I guess as it suggests decent balance in this regard.

For me, Arborea>Ethereal, because my DPS is good enough for trash anyway, and Arborea had more effective impact on bosses etc., where I needed it most. But YMMV, so I can only suggest try it and see.

 

[Nickodeamous]

I think the answer here, like so often in DDO, is, it depends...

The difference between Arborea and Ethereal for me is principally the 15MP and +2 Weapon Enchantment Vs 6SAD (difference is effectively 5SAD as one is pretty much offset by the imbue in Arborea).

The SA damage was nice, scaling as it does with 150% MP, and "normal" DPS was a bit better, but the fact those SAD didn't crit proved too significant for my particular build which leans into burst damage using adrenaline crits and high crit multipliers, and overall that 15MP and +2 just hurt too much to miss where I needed it.

Other builds though, who go more for sustained DPS, may well find that balance reversed.

Astral offering 8%DS on a centred build can be really nice too, but that depends on how much DS you already have as it caps at 100%. With reaper enhancement bonus I hit cap when I most need it anyway, but could see it being really useful in non-reaper questing raids, if I were a centred build. Again it has some nice other features too. I didn't try it though.

For me, Arborea>Ethereal, because my DPS is good enough for trash anyway, and Arborea had more effective impact on bosses etc., where I needed it most. But YMMV, so I can only suggest try it and see.

Thanks for the reply. I totally get that it depends. lol. It's an enigma to me tbh, as I have heard folks say they like others for various reasons, but honestly, when I tested Ethereal, I didn't see much of difference, so I will prob try it for a bit before flipping back to arborea.

My main is a handwrap 20 monk. I don't really have issues with trash mobs. Also, when boosted in reaper, I can be at 97% doublestrike while in Fire stance or Water Stance. That being said, when I raid, I can get to 88% double strike with my current build (67% + 12% Wind stance + 9% toggle), so that's not an issue either. Most of my build relies on SA damage for stunned mobs during reapers, but again, I am not really playing reaper as much (if at all tbh) vs. raiding.

Anyway, thanks for the info! very helpful!

Nico

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Glad I could maybe help add some value, as "it depends..." isn't always the most helpful of answers!

If you're less than 92% DS for the majority of your play then Astral might be a great for you, as you'll get the full benefit of a flat 8% boost to that damage multiple when centred (I understand that's how DS now works these days, a simple multiplier), so the loss of MP from Arborea might be more than offset.

The tactics and dodge cap bonus in Astral are also very nice to have for a stunny dodgy monk, I'd hazard.

Again, I'd suggest giving it a shot to see how it compares for you.

I'm sticking with Arborea because that's what's best for me right now, but that doesn't mean it's best for everyone, or even anyone else (though I'm definitely not that special! ). Everyone will have their own "right" answer for them, at any given time. I guess it would be kinda boring otherwise.

All the best anyway Nico. I hope you find what works best for you.

 

[Pesh]

Astral is more useful if you are building for Quivering Palm- the DS equates to about 4% damage increase if you are at 92 DS already, Arborea is better damage until you go a bit over 300 MP. Ethereal is harder to quantify off the top of my head but its something that gets better the more DS & MP you have already.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

Astral is more useful if you are building for Quivering Palm- the DS equates to about 4% damage increase if you are at 92 DS already, Arborea is better damage until you go a bit over 300 MP. Ethereal is harder to quantify off the top of my head but its something that gets better the more DS & MP you have already.

this is for a Monk but for other stuff Id argue that the more SA dices u allready have the extra MP is good
SA Might have 150%mp scale but its actual worse than your normal autos scaling with 100%MP since Dust and other debuffs dont apply to SA dmg

 

[Thulsadoom]

this is for a Monk but for other stuff Id argue that the more SA dices u allready have the extra MP is good
SA Might have 150%mp scale but its actual worse than your normal autos scaling with 100%MP since Dust and other debuffs dont apply to SA dmg

This is good advice

 

[Nickodeamous]

this is for a Monk but for other stuff Id argue that the more SA dices u allready have the extra MP is good
SA Might have 150%mp scale but its actual worse than your normal autos scaling with 100%MP since Dust and other debuffs dont apply to SA dmg

I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying that SA dice is >Melee power for Monks (who proc SA everytime things are stunned?) Or are you saying that its only 150% mp scale and that even if you have max 35 PRR dust debuff, it still applies to the un-debuffed PRR.

How would this look mathematically. That's what I am wondering

 

[Thulsadoom]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about switching things up for my scion. I always run in Arborea, but lately I've been thinking to myself, what is best for what I run? I'm maxed out on reapers and lives, so I really only run raids nowadays, with occasional high skulls with friends when I feel like it. I've heard Ethereal is better DPS than Arborea and good for Raids. I've also heard that Astral is the way to go for a pure monk, which I am. (I've used both in the past). Ive run some numbers and I cant see how one is much better than the other. The +'s and -'s seem to offset.

So...

what do you guys think? what's your favorite? and why? What do you run, raids, reapers?

I just used Fred to change to Ethereal, and I honestly can't tell a difference. lol.

Thanks!
Ni

I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying that SA dice is >Melee power for Monks (who proc SA everytime things are stunned?) Or are you saying that its only 150% mp scale and that even if you have max 35 PRR dust debuff, it still applies to the un-debuffed PRR.

How would this look mathematically. That's what I am wondering

With arborea, everything scales not just sneak attack. if you're going for the kill list lead which seems to me most people on Khyber are, go for more sneak attack through ethereal. If you want overall value, go with arborea. red names can't be stunned...... Like what the others are trying to say, it depends on what your goals are. Once the mob is debuffed with dust yes this affects the melee damage you do from sneak attack and regular melee dps. No math is needed and congrats! I didn't know you had all the lives done. Very nice

 

[Nickodeamous]

With arborea, everything scales not just sneak attack. if you're going for the kill list lead which seems to me most people on Khyber are, go for more sneak attack through ethereal. If you want overall value, go with arborea. red names can't be stunned...... Like what the others are trying to say, it depends on what your goals are. Once the mob is debuffed with dust yes this affects the melee damage you do from sneak attack and regular melee dps. No math is needed and congrats! I didn't know you had all the lives done. Very nice

Well, I have a few archetypes that don't count towards my build...but that's it. lol. (so, not 100% of all lives, but 97%. lol) My goal is really to have fun, and I have fun by stunning and killing everything in sight. lol Good to hear from you Thulsa!!
Nic

 

[Thulsadoom]

Go with ethereal then and use the sneak attack, It has the six sneak attack dice and thats roughly the whole tree in deepwood stalker sneak attack dice. Its significant.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying that SA dice is >Melee power for Monks (who proc SA everytime things are stunned?) Or are you saying that its only 150% mp scale and that even if you have max 35 PRR dust debuff, it still applies to the un-debuffed PRR.

How would this look mathematically. That's what I am wondering

Oh sorry It was a bit messy. 1. I meant that in theory the More SA dices u have The less attractive ethereal becomes since the SA dices u allready have profit More from the additional 15 MP and 2. Yes Sneak dmg doesnt benefit from Most debuffs that lower Prr (Im Not sure about vulnerability and Monk) atleast I heavily doubt that since my Sneak dmg usually goes from +-1k to 1.4k Mostly due to archers focus building up while my front goes from 3k to 8k

as Jack Jarvis Pointed Out Astral is Highly Popular amongst monks and just great all around even tho the Dc part is usually a bit overkill *cough 160 fort dc cough *

 

[Spook]

For a handwrap build go doublestrike if not at 100%