Arcane Trickster looks goated

[Genkiba]

Then why have them.
They cannot fully accomplish either goal, they will always just be low difficulty flavor builds.
This isnt p&p. If it isn't built for the actual game we are playing, what's the point

You answered your own question.

 

[Jasparius]

The theory is that a hybrid can accomplish two (or more) goals with slightly subpar efficacy, whereas a focused build can only accomplish one goal very efficiently, and maybe others very inefficiently.

There's a sweet spot where it's a reasonable tradeoff, but if hybrids are too strong nobody builds focused builds (why would you only DPS when you can have the same DPS while also throwing heals), and if it's too weak nobody plays hybrids (why play half a DPS + half a tank).

Maintaining that balance is hard, especially when the top end of focused builds are overtuned. That said, you can definitely make hybrids useful for mid-difficulty in multiple roles, and able to function at high difficulties with support. Two 75% DPS/75% tanks combined is ~3 party slots worth of value.

Also hybrids are great for soloing/shortmanning. Can't solo LVoD if your glass cannon dies to the orthons

If a tank isnt 100% a tank then you dont need a tank.

A Barb or DL will do fine.

Or just have a full group of ranged.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

If a tank isnt 100% a tank then you dont need a tank.

A Barb or DL will do fine.

Or just have a full group of ranged.

If they're able to maintain aggro and survive while dealing DPS, that's a hybrid lol. Not all hybrids have to be an even split (and I'd much rather a hybrid DPS/tank than a full tank if both do their job fine). I've tanked raids on a beefy Sorc life before, but not on my Wizard alt.

I've also seen plenty of Barb/DL that can't hold aggro to save their life.

If you have coordinated guild raids with set roles more power to ya, but I have yet to see 12 people on ranged characters at the same time in a pug raid (or all the guild raids I've been in) XD

 

[norriskwondo]

This is the classic argument, but let's explore it

The idea is that hybrids can do more, so they shouldn't do it quite as well, because then why wouldn't everyone play hybrids?

But is there actually that much value in being able to "do more"? I don't think so, not in practice. There is not much situational play in DDO - mobs are all just bags of HP, and damage is damage. You just want to do more of whatever kind of damage you do. So being able to switch damage types doesn't really confer any major advantage

Hybrids also get buffs, debuffs, CC and healing. But, increasingly, those are universally available through EDs and new class mechanics (rogue was one of the few non healing classes left and now they get Heal). Meaningful debuffs come from gear more and more. The strongest CC is from specialists like DLord. And buffs only matter insomuch as they contribute to your overall efficacy, which specialists get baked into their trees more.

So there's really not that much difference, and not much argument to gatekeep hybrid efficacy.

People would still play specialists, because there would be no systemic advantage even if hybrids were fully effective. It'd just be a choice of preferred playstyle.

None of my characters are multi-classed, except my rogue that is multi classed for 4 levels of dark hunter to get some feats in a feat starved class. And the skills in both classes pair. So for me I'd prefer an op finely tuned single class that has decent survivability and good DPS seeing that I solo play. If this arcane rogue has a real good dps, with some magic for buffs, and I read it'll have some innate healing also, so this may be a really good fit for grinding racial past lives.

 

[droid327]

None of my characters are multi-classed, except my rogue that is multi classed for 4 levels of dark hunter to get some feats in a feat starved class. And the skills in both classes pair. So for me I'd prefer an op finely tuned single class that has decent survivability and good DPS seeing that I solo play. If this arcane rogue has a real good dps, with some magic for buffs, and I read it'll have some innate healing also, so this may be a really good fit for grinding racial past lives.

I think 41 TA 31 AT 8 Harper should play a lot like a Stick Monk Jr

You got speed, full stick melee Int abilities, a CC button, spot heals, dodge defense, trance and imbue.

 

[Drachmor]

I don’t think the DPS will be subpar- also it took months for people to realize inquis was a good tree. Idk. I guess time will tell

 

[woq]

Play one first and smirk after; the tricksters I've seen are worse than the non-tricksters I see.

Oneshotting monsters with spells (single target or awkward in range/cd) in heroics on elite or R1 is not any relevant standard of power in modern DDO

 

[Ying]

I don’t think the DPS will be subpar- also it took months for people to realize inquis was a good tree. Idk. I guess time will tell

Inquis was garbage in high skulls when it came out because ranged and casters did way less damage than melee. Update 42 Patch 4 changed that -- three months after Inquis was released.

Arcane Trickster is fine for Elite/R1 leveling. It falls off hard in Legendary high skull content. It's AoE is also kinda crappy - Chain Missile's splash radius is too small.

 

[Drachmor]

Play one first and smirk after; the tricksters I've seen are worse than the non-tricksters I see.

Oneshotting monsters with spells (single target or awkward in range/cd) in heroics on elite or R1 is not any relevant standard of power in modern DDO

Haha fair enough. Mainly smirking as a meme, I haven’t played it yet and I’m not calling for nerfs or anything, I actually want AT to succeed.

 

[Smokewolf]

This thread didn't last long. GOAT'd lol right!

 

[saekee]

Seeing a lot of vet toons TRing to trickster for the PLs. Definitely a lot of variance in the success of them. There was one player doing a lot of destruction; I think he said he was using the active PL of wizard too.

I have been playing my assassin at cap for stealth stuff but will give trickster a go in a few months.