Are Bows good?

[Ying]

If you are going to play a bow focus on its strength which is, its higher base damage and crits.

This. At the top end, bows can have 17-18/x6, 19-20/x10 profile.

 

[Abbot]

I have a cute Lhasa apso

Asking for a friend.

Some reasons would be great too.

I have a Lhasa Apso dog.shes so cute.sometimes I put bows in her hair .for more cutesy ness.i think she is indifferent to bows good or bad but I think they are good.

 

[droid327]

Not an expert on xbows by any measure. But you do also get Avenging Shot and Holy Retribution n KoTC (granted, it is T5) so you can fire several AOE shots in a row. Can also add Scattershot from HW if needed.

From the looks of it, both Ranger and Artis get a similar number of AOE shots (two). Is it just the fact that Shoot First hits multiple times?

Decided to actually model it mathematically rather than just go by feels and vibes...

You can approximate a build's AOE potential as an "AOE rate":

[ (1/AOE cooldown 1) + (1/AOE cooldown 2) +...+ (1/AOE cooldown X) ] * (hits/attack)

Note that (aoe attacks/sec) * (hits/attack) gives a unit of aoe hits/sec.

So for RXB, with attacks at 6 and 12 secs:

(1/6 + 1/12 ) * 3 = 0.75. At L12 you add in a third at 12 secs, boosting you to a rating of 1

For DXB, with 2 attacks at 6 and 12:

(1/6 + 1/12) * 2 = 0.5. DXB gets no kicker in T5

For bows, with 3 attacks at 3 5 and 12 (inferno, exalted, scatter)

(1/3 + 1/5 + 1/12) * 1 = 0.62. At L12 you get Devastating at 12 secs, boosting you to .7

So I might have been undervaluing bow AOE. Its just spammier, with 3-4 attacks to cycle rather than 2 for Inqui. Especially since it hits harder shot-per-shot, and this is a shot-per-shot metric. But RXB is still the strongest AOE, especially past L12. Just cant beat hitting 3x per shot

Of course this doesnt take into account the value of NHB vs Manyshot as a single-target burst DPS skill, or that DXB and RXB can build Archer's Focus stacks much faster and easier, or that RXB takes a bit more player skill since its slower and requires more optimal targeting behavior

 

[adamkatt]

Only for shoosting stuffs!

 

[Owlbear]

Probably most things are already said but bows are good in some cases but bad for leveling. Bow attack speed is slow and the arrow travel time is also very slow which makes it hard to hit moving targets. The newer AoE abilities help and make it playable but leveling is still meh... Bow feels a lot better on higher levels and when you can focus one big single target. So if you group a lot it's probably fine but if you want to solo level you won't have much fun.

 

[Leesun]

Personally, I think bows look ridiculous and have never understood the appeal of them. This said I do not think bows are as ridiculous as bolo ties.

 

[Teh_Troll]

But dies only half the time.

Depends on how drunk I am.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Jokes aside. Bows are the "slow heavy hitter" of ranged. Whereas the game is designed around mob density. So, they struggle with large packs of mobs while they can beat down a single target. They suffer from the lack of the ability to quickly switch between mobs like other ranged weapons can. They could've done something like give them a larger AOE radius or more AOE attacks to compensate for that but chose to increase the base damage instead. Not to mention when people build a bow build, they try to replicate other ranged styles, and they hurt themselves for that. If you are going to play a bow focus on its strength which is, its higher base damage and crits.

I love how this game is the opposite of reality. Crossbows are rapid fire, longbows are slow.

Tell this to the French! They're still probably pissed about Agincourt.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

I love how this game is the opposite of reality. Crossbows are rapid fire, longbows are slow.

Tell this to the French! They're still probably pissed about Agincourt.

Yes, but, "magic".

 

[Col Kurtz]

I love how this game is the opposite of reality. Crossbows are rapid fire, longbows are slow.

Tell this to the French! They're still probably pissed about Agincourt.

besides speed, the accuracy of old time wooden crossbows were not near the walking dead shoot them in the eye accurate versions we have now

 

[SpaceElf]

Wish i could turn off the audio of the repeating bow. Sounds like a noise from a game boy

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

LOL! My thrower sounds like he's got a runny bottom with every throw.

 

[Qrvar]

I love how this game is the opposite of reality. Crossbows are rapid fire, longbows are slow.

Tell this to the French! They're still probably pissed about Agincourt.

To be fair, very few games do crossbows justice. The only two I can remember off the top of my head are KCD2 (basically a historical simulation) and Unicorn Overlord (where crossbowmen are also shield users).

 

[Geezer]

Bows are fun to play if you're always in a party and dont push reaper difficulties, but if you plan on soloing from 1-30, you'd better plan on constantly runnning around and backing up a lot. As people have stated above, the aoe damage really isnt there. Takes too long to kill a mob. I would like to see what the new bow buff is, but I really dont want to roll another ranger atm.

 

[Igognito]

Bows are "OK tier" compared to other ranged weapons. They work fine, but they arent going to be as generally strong as others

I'd say "Good" build are Repeater, Dual Xbow, and Shuriken (at cap)
"OK" builds are Bow, and maybe Great Xbow now
Dart is either "OK" or "Bad", not sure about that, but you dont see it talked about much
"Bad" is Shuriken (while leveling)
"Unplayable" is Martial Throwers

Bows gain a bit of value too if you're just talking about single-target gameplay (ie raids) since their lack of AOE is one of their big drawbacks

What you think of throwing daggers/knifes (I think Vistani has some support)?

 

[Bjond]

What you think of throwing daggers/knifes (I think Vistani has some support)?

Oddly enough I ran the numbers on an updated thrower just now: 4.3M/m v 6.4M/m for repeater (idealized DPS assumes fully stacked self-debuffs, boosts on CD, never grazes, etc). I used to play the thrower. I'm playing the repeater now. IIRC, my current (on paper) shuri is around 5.0M/m (12 DH 8 Monk).

DD+Alch looks promising with a poison drip weapon, but I've not layed that one out for deeper consideration.

I might end up swapping to shuri despite the downgrade. Repeater is so clunky I want to punt it to the moon, but the DPS is too nice and there's no rush; due to rarity & grind, it's much nicer to let chill mats pile up naturally than to farm anything. Bow is not a consideration (it's just another slow clunky ranged with one less item slot).

 

[Seldarin]

Bows are good because you can damage and kill before they ever get to you. Ranger is an easy start because you get most of the ranged feats for free. I use AA tree and paralyze. Most of the those suckers never get near me and when they do a burst of glacial wrath in the face freezes them. Most points in Falconry for instant death to most mobs, rest in acid and paralyzing. Inferno Shot gives the cheapest AOE with the shortest cooldown. Combined with paralyzing you can target the mob at distance and immobilize them all at once.

Why do I use a bow?

I don't like to be touched.

You mention most mobs a lot, what specifically are most mobs? If you mean trash mobs, ok, easy enough to clean that up, but what do you do in end fights with bosses? I dont reckon they would paralyze so well and BOGW wouldnt freeze them. If i read what you are saying above correctly, you are saying that your build is great as long as there is trash to deal with?

 

[Qrvar]

I would like to see what the new bow buff is, but I really dont want to roll another ranger atm.

I've already mentioned this earlier in the thread, but the biggest mistake is assuming that ranger is the best/optimal/default class to play with a bow.

Ranger trees are in a desperate need of an update. And even historically, if you're just after ranged physical DPS, then pure martial classes tend to be a better choice compared to hybrid ones.

 

[Owlbear]

I've already mentioned this earlier in the thread, but the biggest mistake is assuming that ranger is the best/optimal/default class to play with a bow.

Ranger trees are in a desperate need of an update. And even historically, if you're just after ranged physical DPS, then pure martial classes tend to be a better choice compared to hybrid ones.

For leveling the Ranger trees AoE abilities are pretty useful compared to just focus on single target dps.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Bows might be decent damage with the changes. And by decent, I mean they can compete with other ranged builds. Aside from some specialized ranged builds for niche circumstances, Dragon Disciple shuri is what you're looking to beat. It's got excellent movement (30% funspeed), excellent burst with 10k stars, but relies on poison spell damage a bit too much.

Hey Ying.

I'm curious (and too thick to work it out for myself!), but what does Dragon Disciple do over standard Monk in terms of a shuri thrower build?