Are Bows good?

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Oddly enough I ran the numbers on an updated thrower just now: 4.3M/m v 6.4M/m for repeater (idealized DPS assumes fully stacked self-debuffs, boosts on CD, never grazes, etc). I used to play the thrower. I'm playing the repeater now. IIRC, my current (on paper) shuri is around 5.0M/m (12 DH 8 Monk).

DD+Alch looks promising with a poison drip weapon, but I've not layed that one out for deeper consideration.

I might end up swapping to shuri despite the downgrade. Repeater is so clunky I want to punt it to the moon, but the DPS is too nice and there's no rush; due to rarity & grind, it's much nicer to let chill mats pile up naturally than to farm anything. Bow is not a consideration (it's just another slow clunky ranged with one less item slot).

Sorry mate, what Shuri downgrade? I've clearly missed a memo...

 

[Throbulator]

If you want to run through quests holding LMB and occasionally spamming two buttons for max xp/minute, Inquisitive does that better.

If you're ok adapting a slightly slower playstyle, a Deepwood/Horizon will do fine, even through solo reapers, and be excellent sniper cover for your melee buddies in a group.

 

[Bjond]

Sorry mate, what Shuri downgrade? I've clearly missed a memo...

Simply referring to my current build v shuri. If I swapped to shuri, I'd have lower sustained by about 10~15% and much lower HE & Pluck. It might be worth it simply for the QOL improvements. Repeater is clunky. It's like bow with long gaps between the button press and the actual action in game.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Simply referring to my current build v shuri. If I swapped to shuri, I'd have lower sustained by about 10~15% and much lower HE & Pluck. It might be worth it simply for the QOL improvements. Repeater is clunky. It's like bow with long gaps between the button press and the actual action in game.

Aye I found that myself. Much prefer shuri, though the damage did seem a wee bit less.

 

[Col Kurtz]

all these Bows are just an exercise in control

you cant miss your power shots, so hyper clicking attack hinders a Bow or xbow
(since auto target can change quickly, its very possible to shoot between enemies or just miss and wonder why)

 

[norriskwondo]

I've had pretty good use with bows. The cliche build elf ranger is optimal for it, but that doesn't have to be your build. Horizon walker universal tree has some decent bow support too if you're not running ranger

 

[norriskwondo]

I've had pretty good use with bows. The cliche build elf ranger is optimal for it, but that doesn't have to be your build. Horizon walker universal tree has some decent bow support too if you're not running ranger

If you're running cleric or paladin you can take the deity for long bow and use the horizon walker. With long bow as favored weapon and use of horizon walker, that should be pretty effective. But you'll need to go with a dex build unless you also take another universal tree to get the wis,int, or cha for hit and damage. I want to say they're feydark illusionist, harper agent, and falconry.

 

[Anuulified]

I heard they updated them.

 

[Qrvar]

If you're running cleric or paladin you can take the deity for long bow and use the horizon walker. With long bow as favored weapon and use of horizon walker, that should be pretty effective. But you'll need to go with a dex build unless you also take another universal tree to get the wis,int, or cha for hit and damage. I want to say they're feydark illusionist, harper agent, and falconry.

You're right on the cleric and wrong on the paladin.

First, paladins are already proficient with all martial weapons, so if you're going HW there's no need to select Silver Flame as a deity because you can already use longbows and the deity is not very good compared to others.

That said, you might want to go Silver Flame anyway because KotC is much better than HW and it's focused on favored weapon use (I'd personally go 41+ in KotC and maybe 15 in HW just for the infinite arrows and a few other buffs like extra Hunter's Focus).

And yes, for Paladin CHA / hit + dmg may work much better than going DEX. You will still need 19 DEX, however, now that they've improved IPS.

 

[Br4d]

No, bows are bad due to the nature of the combat system which prioritizes # of attacks and crit profile.

In order for bows to be good in the current meta they need a consistent vorpal effect and you needs ways to make it happen more often.

 

[RangerOne]

You mention most mobs a lot, what specifically are most mobs? If you mean trash mobs, ok, easy enough to clean that up, but what do you do in end fights with bosses? I dont reckon they would paralyze so well and BOGW wouldnt freeze them. If i read what you are saying above correctly, you are saying that your build is great as long as there is trash to deal with?

End bosses don't paralyze (although many of the minor ones you meet en route do, colorblind so I can't say what's red or orange) for the boss you hit two buttons: turn on Archer's Focus (to eliminate the stupid 20% penalty which should not apply if the arrow did not pass through anything else on the way) and switch to acid or force arrow.

And BTW (replying to a different post) I don't back up. I circle so any melee who wants to come up and hit the guy standing there rotating to try and face me can do so.

My ranger is the Swiss army knife of DDO. No, I usually don't lead the kill count (but second or third ain't bad) but I can raise you, heal you, find secret doors and disarm traps (with one level of rogue) and throw a Ddoor to get out fast if need be.

Yes, there are some inherent issues with archers as designed by the game developers, but in many cases I think folks don't play them right. Archers don't stand toe to toe with the boss; that is why you brought your paladin. We hang to the rear, find a perch and let loose.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Hey Ying.

I'm curious (and too thick to work it out for myself!), but what does Dragon Disciple do over standard Monk in terms of a shuri thrower build?

OH Audion obviously. 8)

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

OH Audion obviously. 8)

Cheers Fisto. Is that for the +1 crit multi on 19-20 from offhand. Nothing else?

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Cheers Fisto. Is that for the +1 crit multi on 19-20 from offhand. Nothing else?

+30% damage boost synergy from FS resonance, epic strike etc etc... 8)

 

[norriskwondo]

You're right on the cleric and wrong on the paladin.

First, paladins are already proficient with all martial weapons, so if you're going HW there's no need to select Silver Flame as a deity because you can already use longbows and the deity is not very good compared to others.

That said, you might want to go Silver Flame anyway because KotC is much better than HW and it's focused on favored weapon use (I'd personally go 41+ in KotC and maybe 15 in HW just for the infinite arrows and a few other buffs like extra Hunter's Focus).

And yes, for Paladin CHA / hit + dmg may work much better than going DEX. You will still need 19 DEX, however, now that they've improved IPS.

But in the enhancement trees, you get weapon buffs for using your deities favored weapon. Agreed, you don't have to, but if you want a little more and go to 11 take the deity that your building your character around for their weapon.

 

[seph1roth5]

Bows are crap for leveling, which is what the majority of DDO time is for most people. They have strong single target burst damage, but until epic elite/reaper it's going to feel like a slog.

Ranged aoe helped some, but the area part of it is soooo bad and hard to hit with. It feels like 30% as effective as a fireball, at best. Artificer battle engineer is the only one that's not complete crap at ranged aoe, and that's only because their stuff hits 2 or 3x depending on what kind of bow style you're using. So it's still garbage, but it can be 3x garbage!

 

[Col Kurtz]

End bosses don't paralyze (although many of the minor ones you meet en route do, colorblind so I can't say what's red or orange) for the boss you hit two buttons: turn on Archer's Focus (to eliminate the stupid 20% penalty which should not apply if the arrow did not pass through anything else on the way) and switch to acid or force arrow.

And BTW (replying to a different post) I don't back up. I circle so any melee who wants to come up and hit the guy standing there rotating to try and face me can do so.

My ranger is the Swiss army knife of DDO. No, I usually don't lead the kill count (but second or third ain't bad) but I can raise you, heal you, find secret doors and disarm traps (with one level of rogue) and throw a Ddoor to get out fast if need be.

Yes, there are some inherent issues with archers as designed by the game developers, but in many cases I think folks don't play them right. Archers don't stand toe to toe with the boss; that is why you brought your paladin. We hang to the rear, find a perch and let loose.

exactly! +1

circle of death or play a diff class than ranged.

Grabbing agro and running backwards through half the dungeon is not the way, despite what I see in some dungeons

 

[Col Kurtz]

we need a 4th choice "depends on how Bows are used"

 

[Seldarin]

End bosses don't paralyze (although many of the minor ones you meet en route do, colorblind so I can't say what's red or orange) for the boss you hit two buttons: turn on Archer's Focus (to eliminate the stupid 20% penalty which should not apply if the arrow did not pass through anything else on the way) and switch to acid or force arrow.

And BTW (replying to a different post) I don't back up. I circle so any melee who wants to come up and hit the guy standing there rotating to try and face me can do so.

My ranger is the Swiss army knife of DDO. No, I usually don't lead the kill count (but second or third ain't bad) but I can raise you, heal you, find secret doors and disarm traps (with one level of rogue) and throw a Ddoor to get out fast if need be.

Yes, there are some inherent issues with archers as designed by the game developers, but in many cases I think folks don't play them right. Archers don't stand toe to toe with the boss; that is why you brought your paladin. We hang to the rear, find a perch and let loose.

Was a mostly rhetorical question, i am well aware bosses dont paralyze. I havent bothered with AA, mostly because my current iteration is rogue/ranger/pally. Not something unusual to be able to raise, heal, doors, traps and DD. I often stand toe to toe with the boss, makes the healers job easy than having to chase folks around a map. By all means speak for yourself regarding an archer, but not everyone plays the same style and not every other style is wrong either. My job is damage, not worrying about a kill count. A kill count only represents the last person to hit something

 

[LetsGetDangerous]

Jokes aside. Bows are the "slow heavy hitter" of ranged. Whereas the game is designed around mob density. So, they struggle with large packs of mobs while they can beat down a single target. They suffer from the lack of the ability to quickly switch between mobs like other ranged weapons can. They could've done something like give them a larger AOE radius or more AOE attacks to compensate for that but chose to increase the base damage instead. Not to mention when people build a bow build, they try to replicate other ranged styles, and they hurt themselves for that. If you are going to play a bow focus on its strength which is, its higher base damage and crits.

I still can't get over how bows are the heavy hitters...

Bows should have been faster, then crossbows, with great crossbows being the slowest. In reality reloading a crossbow takes long.

But I guess it’s too late to change that now.