Are melees too strong in r10 at level cap?

[Tyrande]

100 HP or fewer or just does damage. Essentially it does 100 hp of damage.

that's in D&D. But in DDO everything is enlarged. Most of the monsters in D&D have less than 100hp.

Have you look at Banishment, Prismatic Spray and Prismatic Wall, violet ray, teleport to plane.
essentially disappearing from current plane, but similar to death.

Also, Time Ravage, age the monster to have 30 days left, severely debuffed the monster. In DDO, there's no such thing.
Basically cursed to the monster so that it only have a slimmer of life remaining which can then be easily killed with one more hit.

In DDO we have regular monsters that have millions of hp, see Threats.
I'll be happy if the HP limit is 1,000,000. But the devs didn't put in a limit.

 

[Teh_Troll]

100 HP or fewer or just does damage. Essentially it does 100 hp of damage.

Good minion, have a cookie.

 

[Tyrande]

Ah yes the 5th edition 9th Level "kill" spell that does nothing to monsters that would matter at that level, at least in the updated 2024 5th edition it does 12d12 Psychic damage if they have over 100 hit points.
Also how is Banishment an instant death spell? All it does is banish you for a minute or send you to your home plane

to us players that banish is like death, teleport to home plane meaning that it doesn't appear on current plane (if not the home plane of the monster) where the action matters.

 

[Phungki]

You are seeing some evidence and thinking it means something it doesn't.

A crap player on a completionist will find it easier. (Wow really?)

But. a good player on a toon with two lives can do things that a crap player with many lives cannot do.

two things can be true. both are valid. skill can make up for lives and bling but lives and bling are huge in this game. Its just not possible to balance this game. I've seen it go from casters are too strong to melees are too strong and back again.

 

[MrBill]

Bro, I have been complaining about this for years and all the forumites just laughed at me. They have removed any real classes in an effort to make every class the exact same. Gone are the days when you would wait for a rogue, or a cleric, and hope to get a decent caster to go along with a couple of melees. Group balancing is just a joke at this point and I don't think they will ever fix it. Traps should be deadly, melees shouldn't be able to self heal, and clerics should be valued for their healing abilities not just in raids.

Man I agree. I played a cleric when the cap was 16 and it was great. Granted I couldn't solo worth a darn, but I was a good healer and enjoyed playing one. And as mentioned groups wanted you and remembered you if you were good.

Now I watch our 3rd life Paladin literally run through any and all traps fight, be immune to almost everything, fight six+ mobs at once using 2hd and self heal himself so that he almost never dies in medium reaper. I gave up my cleric at 14 years ago

 

[Tyrande]

Man I agree. I played a cleric when the cap was 16 and it was great. Granted I couldn't solo worth a darn, but I was a good healer and enjoyed playing one. And as mentioned groups wanted you and remembered you if you were good.

Now I watch our 3rd life Paladin literally run through any and all traps fight, be immune to almost everything, fight six+ mobs at once using 2hd and self heal himself so that he almost never dies in medium reaper. I gave up my cleric at 14 years ago

Yeah, I hate playing my 2 favored souls right now and have the same sentiment as you. Play a healer -> nobody needs your character; and they can't even solo r1 as a healer.
Play an evoker, the damage is only 1/20th (5%) of an equivalent bling, past lives and whistled melee.

I bet your character 3rd life paladin can probably also sustains some if not all of the damage from the lag, or lag affected it very little...

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Man I agree. I played a cleric when the cap was 16 and it was great. Granted I couldn't solo worth a darn, but I was a good healer and enjoyed playing one. And as mentioned groups wanted you and remembered you if you were good.

Now I watch our 3rd life Paladin literally run through any and all traps fight, be immune to almost everything, fight six+ mobs at once using 2hd and self heal himself so that he almost never dies in medium reaper. I gave up my cleric at 14 years ago

You’re doing it wrong. I heal r10s all the time and most are miles better off with a healer, even if it just means they can split more or go faster than one without,m.

Rare is the group that can’t use one at all and even those groups can often split more with a healer than without .

 

[Rusty_helmet]

that's in D&D. But in DDO everything is enlarged. Most of the monsters in D&D have less than 100hp.

Have you look at Banishment, Prismatic Spray and Prismatic Wall, violet ray, teleport to plane.
essentially disappearing from current plane, but similar to death.

Also, Time Ravage, age the monster to have 30 days left, severely debuffed the monster. In DDO, there's no such thing.
Basically cursed to the monster so that it only have a slimmer of life remaining which can then be easily killed with one more hit.

In DDO we have regular monsters that have millions of hp, see Threats.
I'll be happy if the HP limit is 1,000,000. But the devs didn't put in a limit.

The monster manual is littered with monsters over 100 hp starting as early as CR 4. A Lamia for instance is CR 4 and has 97 hp average. "Most of the monsters" equals about 10% of monsters in reality.

 

[Fizban]

I think the melees should not have the ability to do mass instant killing. Dragonlord is certainly one that comes to mind as well as a Monks everything is nothing.

Mass spell effects or abilities should remane with the appropriate caster depending on the spell.

 

[Tyrande]

I think the melees should not have the ability to do mass instant killing. Dragonlord is certainly one that comes to mind as well as a Monks everything is nothing.

Mass spell effects or abilities should remane with the appropriate caster depending on the spell.

Don't forget barbarians. They have that same ability that 20th Dragonlords can do; but less tanky.

 

[Abramax]

I ll not answer the poll as no answer here is good.

The reallity is that DDO needs BALANCE.

They need to Balance enhancements, feats, epic destinies, spells, epc strikes and Reaper difficulty.
Without balance some builds will be too weak and in comparaison, some builds will be "too strong".
Some enhancements tree have not been really updated for more than 10 years, they have bad design and no synergy.

If we want to talk about what is strong and what is weak, we need an official reference and we need to calibrate things to balance the game.
Otherwise we r just talking to the wind.

If we take a pure DPS build, doing only damage, no CC, no heals, just damage.
For exemple what is the % of damage trade off to have maxed : healing or CC abilities ? maxed dodge or PRR/MRR/AC ?
What should be the % damage trade off for a dragon lord to have one of the best AOE CC ?
Where should be that balance : gear ? enhancements ? feats ? something else ?

Every attacks/spells with DCs should have the same calculation. Every items, feats, enhancements ... giving bonus to DC should be the same.
Why spell focus is +2DC when tactical feats can give +16DC ?
Why some DCs add skills when others dont ?
Why assassinate stuff give +16 dc to assassinate when spell focus items of the same level give only +5 to DC ?

Everything is different, everywhere, so it can not be balanced and that is the problem of DDO.
It s a chaotic diversity creating inequality when it should be a structured diversity.

I would be happy to pay 140$ for an expansion only giving BALANCE and REWORK for feats, enhancements and epic destinies.

*Updated*

 

[Smokewolf]

My steak is too lobster and my butter is too juicy or something..

Yum!

 

[Rusty_helmet]

I think the melees should not have the ability to do mass instant killing. Dragonlord is certainly one that comes to mind as well as a Monks everything is nothing.

Mass spell effects or abilities should remane with the appropriate caster depending on the spell.

Dragon Lord's "instakill" requires firsts for them to be sundered and then for them to not die from the damage from sundered soul. And it's got a 20 second cooldown. The ravager tree is actually a barbarian tree and not dragonlord, that's what you are referring to. And good dragonlord's do not take that tree. It's a trap outside of the first tier.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

Don't forget barbarians. They have that same ability that 20th Dragonlords can do; but less tanky.

In what world are barbarians less tanky than dragonlords? They are on par with PRR/MRR and have 10% damage reduction on top of that while also getting a free dodge clicky? And have more hp. And more Melee Power.

 

[Tyrande]

*Updated*

sure, but I won't pay $140. maybe $20 for the lag fix, a balance pass of all EDs, feats, and equipment, and maybe some nerfs of the mass IK for DL, barbarians and monks.

 

[Abramax]

sure, but I won't pay $140. maybe $20 for the lag fix, a balance pass of all EDs, feats, and equipment, and maybe some nerfs of the mass IK for DL, barbarians and monks.

If they work on it, they deserve to be paid for it.
Or maybe just add reworked enhancement trees in the DDO store. If you dont buy it, you can t play with it.

How it could work ? simple.

For exemple, create the new reworked Arcane Archer tree everyone is begging for.
Add it to the DDO store.
When unlocked it gives access to a multiselector for another core 1 in AA tree.
- First core 1 = free, it s the "original" rusty and stinky AA tree
- Second core 1 : When activated, change all the tree to a new one. New reworked tree, fresh, enjoyable, balanced and competitive.

I wish we could buy new enhancement trees, reworked enhancement tress (Ranged Eldritch Knight anyone? Vile Chemist with bows or exotic weapons ?), new EDs, upgraded version of existing EDs, new feats pack ...
Just because we need it and they need money to do it.

 

[Tyrande]

If they work on it, they deserve to be paid for it.
Or maybe just add reworked enhancement trees in the DDO store. If you dont buy it, you can t play with it.

How it could work ? simple.

For exemple, create the new reworked Arcane Archer tree everyone is begging for.
Add it to the DDO store.
When unlocked it gives access to a multiselector for another core 1 in AA tree.
- First core 1 = free, it s the "original" rusty and stinky AA tree
- Second core 1 : When activated, change all the tree to a new one. New reworked tree, fresh, enjoyable, balanced and competitive.

I wish we could buy new enhancement trees, reworked enhancement tress (Ranged Eldritch Knight anyone? Vile Chemist with bows or exotic weapons ?), new EDs, upgraded version of existing EDs, new feats pack ...
Just because we need it and they need money to do it.

I think the multiselector in the tree is too inconvenient. Just call the whole package: Forge of the Artificer: new enhancements

Once it is purchased, it gave the character the option in Settings to toggle on the new enchancements.

Once it is toggled on, the new trees are enabled in enhancements which has the new AA tree, new Archmage tree, new FvS AoV tree, new warlock DPS tree, etc.

I could pay $140 if they at least make 7 new trees including new EDs, say $20 per new tree.

 

[Kyrr]

SOME melees may be over-performing. Just like SOME cold-casters were over-performing.

We know how SSG ****** that up.

Time to nerf damage to all melees instead of specific ones!

Hey SSG, please bring back any caster that wasn't cold. Stormsinger, Artificer, uh, Cleric/Negative, Fvs/Light

 

[Tyrande]

Time to nerf damage to all melees instead of specific ones!

Hey SSG, please bring back any caster that wasn't cold. Stormsinger, Artificer, uh, Cleric/Negative, Fvs/Light

I don't know why DDO devs use cold druid's damage as a baseline for caster damage, if that's what they are doing, it is inaccurate to measure druid DPS as overall caster DPS. Cold druid's damage is an outlier DPS... They have too many good DPS spells that either have no spell resistance and/or no save, and the epic spell Burst of Glacier Wrath. It's too good. They should have used warlock or FvS AoV DPS to compare as a baseline against melee DPS... IMHO.

Also, combine that with the Magus of the Eclipse ED for cold and TimeStop, its awesome! non-cold based sorcerer won't use the Magus tree b/c its cold based, and non-cold based Warlock or Favored Soul/Cleric won't use the Magus tree unless they just want the negative energy-based stuff there. So, basically the Magus ED is only used by cold druids and PM wizards and maybe cold based sorcerers.

Maybe they should made those spells available in other element versions available to other casters in the new trees using energy substitution, or remove energy striping from druids and make it sorcerer only since druids can easily switch to another form using another element?

 

[Nickodeamous]

This topic seems to come up once or twice a year. Somebody get frustrated they aren't leading in kill count, and then everyone advocates for and against nerfs. Its like clockwork.

I play the game for fun. Do I like killing things? Yes! Do I care if I dont lead the count? No! Lol. Its supposed to be fun. And your brand of fun may vary. And you know what? Thats ok!