Are the Quest to fast and easy now?

[Jasparius]

It's already pretty good XP and RXP. Way better than Bark and the Blade, for instance. You just have to follow the suggested (low-fighting) path and not aggro everything in the dungeon.

Can be good, but if not great it wont get run. Especially if there isnt additional XP from sagas.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Can be good, but if not great it wont get run. Especially if there isnt additional XP from sagas.

I mean, over 4k a min in heroics and over 25k in epics is not bad xp/min (it's really good, in fact, one tier down from shadow crypt/sane asylum levels, but easily in the upper tier of "worth running most lives), and it's in a saga? so there is additional XP for saga?

 

[Jeronimo]

We do have more knowledge of the quests, we do have gear and even abilities we didn't have when these quests were first introduced.

I would also point out back in the day doing optional objectives was more the norm for groups I was in. Chains like Tangleroot were often run from start to finish sometimes starting slightly over level and ending under level for the quests.

That brings in the other part, running quests at or over level is common today, while it was common to run under level in the early days. I remember running my level 4 wizard with a group Stormcleave Outpost (Level 8) as the way to beat the boss was MM as we didn't have the gear to bypass and the shield wall was the common tactic.

Yes, running under level was often the norm thanks to the xp bonus system back then. It rewarded running quests under level. People often started running Gianthold at lvl 9/10 and Vale at lvl 13. It often made the content a bit more challenging, required tactics and made the quest times a bit longer.

 

[nenetteblackmoor]

When you died, you lost EXP and your level would decrease, and you could only earn EXP from the same quest up to 8 times.
It's a level of difficulty that's hard to imagine now.

 

[Jasparius]

I mean, over 4k a min in heroics and over 25k in epics is not bad xp/min (it's really good, in fact, one tier down from shadow crypt/sane asylum levels, but easily in the upper tier of "worth running most lives), and it's in a saga? so there is additional XP for saga?

We regularly get up to 6k/min in Heroics.

Ive never done Vecna so dont know how many low XP/min dungeons you have to do in order to get the saga. At level 18 we are running Sharn /Cogs and once we get the sagas are taking 20 and then hitting Epics. I dont think we have ever been so short on XP that we have needed to head to Vecna dungeons.

Similar at Epic. We dont need to run Legendary quests at Epic levels, so would only worry about Legendary dungeons when staying at cap.

 

[SunTzu]

Stun + AOE ruin the gameplay, because the mobs dont have the time to fight back.

 

[Jasparius]

Stun + AOE ruin the gameplay, because the mobs dont have the time to fight back.

Avoiding being hit and throwing Fireballs was a thing in Pen and Paper so the idea it has ruined DDO surely is silly.

 

[Sweyn]

Yes, running under level was often the norm thanks to the xp bonus system back then. It rewarded running quests under level. People often started running Gianthold at lvl 9/10 and Vale at lvl 13. It often made the content a bit more challenging, required tactics and made the quest times a bit longer.

Yup, I remember that. As soon as I got my vorpal weapons at level 10 (which was the ML for a +1 vorpal and there was no HP cap to the insta kill on a roll of a 20) I'd hit up GH. I couldn't hit anything or do any damage, so I relied on 20's to kill everything lol.

 

[Elminster]

Devs don't seem to understand rhat their are a few key item effects that are broken OP like debuffers that drastically increase DPS across the board.

 

[Deamon81]

When you died, you lost EXP and your level would decrease, and you could only earn EXP from the same quest up to 8 times.
It's a level of difficulty that's hard to imagine now.

But that was really cool. You have to watch out more on your gameplay and also on the group

 

[kmoustakas]

I remember the time when we started playing DDO. I got the feeling that al lot of quested are not easy to play and you have to spend 30-90min and sometimes more to finish it. So the Quest start screen whith short medium or long really got a value on the playtime.

During the years some quests are nerved so getting easier and quicker, it seems to be that a quest which takes more then 15mins will not be played or getting nerved to get easier....
I´m not sure if my feeling is wrong but we moved from a D&D Online RPG to a quick Hack and Slay Online RPG?

There has been incredible powercreep over the years. It started with Shadowfail when the level 22 item enhancement +8 was made level 15. It has been going incredible downhill (uphill?) from there, even with the item nerf a year ago

 

[SunTzu]

Avoiding being hit and throwing Fireballs was a thing in Pen and Paper so the idea it has ruined DDO surely is silly.

You can't spam that fireball on pnp almost limitless.

 

[Br4d]

When you died, you lost EXP and your level would decrease, and you could only earn EXP from the same quest up to 8 times.
It's a level of difficulty that's hard to imagine now.

Also you needed to loot a specific item to take levels 8 and 10 as I recall. It may have been more but those are the two levels I remember.

Made your pull at the end of certain quests very exciting.

 

[Br4d]

But that was really cool. You have to watch out more on your gameplay and also on the group

MMO's are definitely more immersive when there is actual loss involved in some interactions.

Modern players don't have the patience for this and the MMO experience is much less for them than it would be if they had experienced the balance between progression and regression that original MMO players did.

 

[Jasparius]

You can't spam that fireball on pnp almost limitless.

You dont fight 280 mobs in a single dungeon either.

Or have 8,500 HP. So some things are different.

 

[rabidfox]

Devs don't seem to understand rhat their are a few key item effects that are broken OP like debuffers that drastically increase DPS across the board.

Next you'll complain that crowd control is broken. Or maybe it's bard songs. Or heals. Or tanks. It's almost like DDO is a MMO and bringing a well balanced party increases how the party does.

 

[DDO Gaming]

The player base has gotten more knowledgeable, more powerful, and better gear. And after running the quest a thousand times, you know where the short cuts are, exactly where the mobs will spawn, etc. So of course, the completion times get shorter and shorter.

this is a core reason DDO needs to be re-engineered...or even reimagined.

I suspect tabletop participant numbers will never be able to match the numbers that have played DDO since it came online and that's a point that needs to be considered if DDO is ever re-engineered

 

[Discount Gandalf]

Reading this thread it is funny the things I have forgotten or maybe blocked out about early DDO. Though I do remember when we were dumped into what is now known as the inspired quarter pre-korthos as a new character. You had to earn your way into the harbor and then again to get into the marketplace. I believe we had to complete the waterworks quest line, if I'm not mistaken, which was no easy task back then and required a full group.

 

[Sarandra]

Are people longing again for 5 people waiting while 1 is solving a puzzle? Or 4 v 2?

 

[ShotCaller]

...and those last 3 are not because people don’t want to but it’s just hard to find groups that are ready for those.

Raid pugs constantly try to push those to r1 and fail, and it’s hard enough to get the people together to begin with .

Which means those three quests are difficult, which speaks directly to what the OP is saying.

Your point about getting people together for raids is a good one. I remember when any LFM for VoN 5/6 filled quickly without even having to be IP. Now? If you wait to fill before starting you'll be waiting forever, and once you do start people don't join until the raid is well under way. I also commonly see groups put together to run VoN 1-4 that suddenly develop a collective tummyache as soon as VoN 5/6 is mentioned, yet they're often happy to run Tempest"s Spine.

I don't get it. Maybe someone else does.