Are the Quest to fast and easy now?

[DDO Gaming]

I also commonly see groups put together to run VoN 1-4 that suddenly develop a collective tummyache as soon as VoN 5/6 is mentioned, yet they're often happy to run Tempest"s Spine.

I don't get it. Maybe someone else does.

But that's the whole reason for guildships...and discord. You use discord to plan your quest arcs. So the next question is: do you have the skillsets to create a proper guildship with associated discord server so you can plan team questing etc?

 

[DDO Gaming]

LFM is only ever used occasionally...or gamers who actually need help. If you want to actively participate in teamgaming then you need guilships/discord etc

 

[rabidfox]

I also commonly see groups put together to run VoN 1-4 that suddenly develop a collective tummyache as soon as VoN 5/6 is mentioned, yet they're often happy to run Tempest"s Spine.

I don't get it. Maybe someone else does.

In heroics? Von5/6 isn't good XP/min and is poor use of my time if I'm running a nice XP pot (if I'm not running a pot, then I'll do them in heroics). Von6 heroic also doesn't drop runes, so if I actually want gear I'd be better off waiting a day and doing the epic version (and the epic version is a ton of XP). TS takes less than 10 minutes and is pretty solid XP/min and make good use of XP pots too. What I personally will or won't run changes entirely if I'm not running any XP pot vs running a 50% XP pot.

 

[Nickodeamous]

In heroics? Von5/6 isn't good XP/min and is poor use of my time if I'm running a nice XP pot (if I'm not running a pot, then I'll do them in heroics). Von6 heroic also doesn't drop runes, so if I actually want gear I'd be better off waiting a day and doing the epic version (and the epic version is a ton of XP). TS takes less than 10 minutes and is pretty solid XP/min and make good use of XP pots too. What I personally will or won't run changes entirely if I'm not running any XP pot vs running a 50% XP pot.

100% this. I never run Von5/6 in heroics as it destroys XP/Min, which is my goal while getting a PL. The faster I can blitz through heroics, the better (but that's my style...not applicable to everyone).

This game has a wide range of quests for everyone. With 198 PLs and counting, the grind is already enormous, so in that respect, i think we are good in terms of difficulty. Again, your mileage may very.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Which means those three quests are difficult, which speaks directly to what the OP is saying.

Your point about getting people together for raids is a good one. I remember when any LFM for VoN 5/6 filled quickly without even having to be IP. Now? If you wait to fill before starting you'll be waiting forever, and once you do start people don't join until the raid is well under way. I also commonly see groups put together to run VoN 1-4 that suddenly develop a collective tummyache as soon as VoN 5/6 is mentioned, yet they're often happy to run Tempest"s Spine.

I don't get it. Maybe someone else does.

The op is saying people don’t “want” to do hard or long quests .

I’m saying people do want to do them, they are just unable at certain difficulties , so that’s why they are running LH.

Maybe you’re not around for it but pugs constantly try to push that up to r1 and often fail. They desire to do so, which is not what the op is saying.

 

[droid327]

Ultimately, everyone figures out that efficiency is the endgame, because the chase goals (completionist, rxp, reaper frags, etc.) are just so horribly grindy that it's only rewarding and satisfying to earn progress at the greatest possible rate.

And the greatest rate is achieved by doing short quests. They give the best xp and rxp/min, and they give the same end chest rewards as long quests for less work

They really need to rebalance longer and older quests to normalize rewards/min, then you'd see more diversity in play again. Better xp, better rxp, and multiple end chests.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Next you'll complain that crowd control is broken. Or maybe it's bard songs. Or heals. Or tanks. It's almost like DDO is a MMO and bringing a well balanced party increases how the party does.

Well, crowd control is broken. The inflated sources of aoe helplessness is one of the major factors of why the game is much easier. The primary gameplay of non-trivial gameplay is beating down helpless monsters, with a massive damage multiplier.

 

[Jasparius]

Ultimately, everyone figures out that efficiency is the endgame, because the chase goals (completionist, rxp, reaper frags, etc.) are just so horribly grindy that it's only rewarding and satisfying to earn progress at the greatest possible rate.

And the greatest rate is achieved by doing short quests. They give the best xp and rxp/min, and they give the same end chest rewards as long quests for less work

They really need to rebalance longer and older quests to normalize rewards/min, then you'd see more diversity in play again. Better xp, better rxp, and multiple end chests.

It feels like its been 8 or 10 years since they last did this. My guess is they no longer care. The players decide the best route and those dozens and dozens of quests which had hundreds or even thousands of hours invested in them by designers and developers lie dormant.

I cant imagine its even that much work. They have a Player Council. They have a forum. People could submit spreadsheets showing the XP/min for all the quests at each level - or they could simply look at the logs of which dungeons get run and which dont.

Id love to see more content each life, but the simple fact is, XP comes first, loot second (or last if you already have all the gear you need) and fun comes second/third for so many people. In a group, the group will collectively want to finish as quickly as possible.

 

[Blunt Hackett]

There has always been Zergers, but it's different now. When there were only a few quests, those optionals mattered more. Now that there are hundreds of quests and Reaper first time bonuses, and tons of past lives, or alternatively, end game where standard xp is moot and only named loot matters, stopping to smell the roses has little incentive to most players.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

There has always been Zergers, but it's different now. When there were only a few quests, those optionals mattered more. Now that there are hundreds of quests and Reaper first time bonuses, and tons of past lives, or alternatively, end game where standard xp is moot and only named loot matters, stopping to smell the roses has little incentive to most players.

what ?

We used to nnnnnnhe Zerg where we were trying to shave seconds off the time just out of boredom.

Or you mean the WK opts which everyone still does ?

 

[Positive thinking]

Anyone wanting a more pen and paper feel should be getting away from everything the general population does in the game.

Try some Permadeath, come and join EXTREME Mortal Voyage Permadeath, we dont just have the Word EXTREME in our guild name by coincedence. We make the game hard again by design, we have eliminated many things that are power creep in our guild rules.

PM me directly and I will get you in touch with the guild leader online on argonessen.

 

[Jasparius]

Anyone wanting a more pen and paper feel should be getting away from everything the general population does in the game.

Try some Permadeath, come and join EXTREME Mortal Voyage Permadeath, we dont just have the Word EXTREME in our guild name by coincedence. We make the game hard again by design, we have eliminated many things that are power creep in our guild rules.

PM me directly and I will get you in touch with the guild leader online on argonessen.

Ive always liked the idea of Permadeath but figure it works far better in a group. A friend and I do have a toon we are levelling only with the gear we find and that is still a lot of fun. 1st lives with only a couple of named items and up to level 14 running mostly E (originally we would go N / H as we werent VIP).

Im not sure we have died yet. Maybe one of us has, and has been res'd but I dont think we have wiped.

Without the 200 past lives and 80 Reaper points the DPS is still pretty strong - its just the survivability is sorely missing. But we arent running Reaper unless we find groups and even then, take it carefully because we have 1/2 or 1/3 of the HP of the multi life players.

 

[Indyanna]

FoM is so short even on r1.

R1 Leg CHRONO is by far the biggest slog, probably followed by R1+ Leg Shroud. None of the others make sense to me. All are pretty quick if you have a decent party.

Ugh yeah r1 chrono is a slog, however personally I love shroud lol so I’ll never admit to it being too long (it is quite long though) but the nostalgia hit from running it 15 or so years ago, when I originally played is strong. Plus, useful mats.

The challenge dungeons for me aren’t skipped because they’re long, it’s just they’re usually run on r1 so we aren’t doing them for ftb.. we only bump to r10 for those if we feel like masochists that day (which btw the reaper xp in those quests is terrible but that’s for another thread, another time)

 

[Positive thinking]

Ive always liked the idea of Permadeath but figure it works far better in a group. A friend and I do have a toon we are levelling only with the gear we find and that is still a lot of fun. 1st lives with only a couple of named items and up to level 14 running mostly E (originally we would go N / H as we werent VIP).

Im not sure we have died yet. Maybe one of us has, and has been res'd but I dont think we have wiped.

Without the 200 past lives and 80 Reaper points the DPS is still pretty strong - its just the survivability is sorely missing. But we arent running Reaper unless we find groups and even then, take it carefully because we have 1/2 or 1/3 of the HP of the multi life players.

Yep that sounds pretty similar except we must run on elite at level or 1 level higher per reaper skull for quests and we dont use house p/j buffs, we dont use auction house or brokers, we dont allow purchase of anything magical from vendors, we dont use hirelings to boost the party, we dont rerun quests on the same setting to farm gear, we only have 3 buffs on our ship that are allowed and we all shrine at once in a party so no chain buffing at shrines and thats all that we get, and we only group within guild as to not taint the experience with multilife non permadeathers.

Again send a PM if you are interested in trying the harder than hardcore permadeath on the live servers! Be EXTREME!!!

 

[Contessor]

In heroics? Von5/6 isn't good XP/min and is poor use of my time if I'm running a nice XP pot (if I'm not running a pot, then I'll do them in heroics). Von6 heroic also doesn't drop runes, so if I actually want gear I'd be better off waiting a day and doing the epic version (and the epic version is a ton of XP). TS takes less than 10 minutes and is pretty solid XP/min and make good use of XP pots too. What I personally will or won't run changes entirely if I'm not running any XP pot vs running a 50% XP pot.

Von 5 = 10min in a good group of 4-5ppl, with pot is pretty good xp/min. But Pug with one person doing most everything I agree. VoN6 is not good xp, but takes 1min to compelte, if ppl wait on air to prep before taking fire and ice pillar down. Again in a PuG I see your point.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

To the extent it exists it is mostly a self-inflicted problem. People prefer to level up on R1 because it's faster. At cap alot of people Run below R10 rather than R10 because it's faster and group composition isn't as important.

SSG added extreme challenge dungeons and those are run less frequently than other dungeons because they are more difficult.

People ask for challenge, but it's usually a disguise for requesting more rewards.

 

[Deamon81]

Reading this thread it is funny the things I have forgotten or maybe blocked out about early DDO. Though I do remember when we were dumped into what is now known as the inspired quarter pre-korthos as a new character. You had to earn your way into the harbor and then again to get into the marketplace. I believe we had to complete the waterworks quest line, if I'm not mistaken, which was no easy task back then and required a full group.

But isn´t D&D a Team play? So the design was not for Solo Reaper 10 ;-)

 

[Geezer]

Well, "back in the day", I remember having to wait for a healer and a rogue to do heroic quests and now its just a matter of "zerg, baby, zerg"

 

[Deamon81]

Well, "back in the day", I remember having to wait for a healer and a rogue to do heroic quests and now its just a matter of "zerg, baby, zerg"

But you can get Hirlings now ;-)