Arguments why the next expansions lower level should be 23

Otti

New member
Some arguments why the lower level variant of the next expansion should be level 23 (in addition to the level 34 variant)
  • Heroic content now has a modern (Ravenloft and later) expansion every 2-3 levels.
  • Epic has the in the early levels the MotU expansion that provides good xp but bad loot. In later levels there is Shadowfell with the same properties.
  • My items for epic leveling mostly consist of level 15 Sharn, some Level 20 sets and crafted items for the main attributes and spell DCs.
  • Level 23 offers a big jump for those stats: Level 20 to 23 the competence+insigthful attributes jump from 9+4 to 11+5. Spell DC equipment+insightful also jumps to 5+3.
  • So Level 23 would be a perfect spot to place an expansion that provides good loot to use during epic leveling.
  • Epic levels didn't get much new content during the recent years. With some additional expansion level content in there I could vary up the quests I do for epic leveling.
 
Upvote 8

FaceDancer

Olde Wurm
A lot of the equipment in the lower epic levels could use some tweaking. It definitely hasn't aged gracefully. Would love some new content, but it would also be good if they made an item pass on some of this old content and bring it more up to date/relevant as well.
Content in the 23-24 range would be nice.

It would also be good to see some epic level permanent gold seal hirelings that I can watch die horrible deaths (or vice/versa) to have along for the ride.
 

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
I think vecna having level 18 gear instead of level 20 gear was a terrible mistake. The quests were fine at level 18 but not the gear.

I don't think we need level 23 expansion, 25 would be more like it. But no more legendary rats and dogs please :/
 

dozensnakes

Well-known member
I think vecna having level 18 gear instead of level 20 gear was a terrible mistake. The quests were fine at level 18 but not the gear.

I don't think we need level 23 expansion, 25 would be more like it. But no more legendary rats and dogs please :/
It's annoying the set bonuses for vecna gear are so much weaker then the sharn sets. I wanted an alternative, not a downgrade.


Also I think we need the older gear to get a balance pass, since the non-weapon items from 22-28 are just horribly outdated.
 

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
It's annoying the set bonuses for vecna gear are so much weaker then the sharn sets. I wanted an alternative, not a downgrade.


Also I think we need the older gear to get a balance pass, since the non-weapon items from 22-28 are just horribly outdated.
Yes, agreed and sorta. They are not outdated so much as ... weird and inconsequential? No point in equiping epic catacombs or epic deleras gear over sss gear or even borderlands gear.
 

Bjond

Well-known member
L23 is a good spot. Anything higher has no point. My chars already steamroll R4 while leveling up in L20 gear. Adding a regear won't change that; I see no point in leveling on higher skulls.

IMHO, what epic needs most isn't new gear, but some new expansion hires in the L20~26 range. Current gap for hires is L15 then L34. I only have one character that bothers with hires, but I know others use them a lot. There's a total void of epic hires.
 

Purr

Well-known member
L23 is a good spot. Anything higher has no point. My chars already steamroll R4 while leveling up in L20 gear. Adding a regear won't change that; I see no point in leveling on higher skulls.

IMHO, what epic needs most isn't new gear, but some new expansion hires in the L20~26 range. Current gap for hires is L15 then L34. I only have one character that bothers with hires, but I know others use them a lot. There's a total void of epic hires.
As someone who solos a lot with hires, we definitely need some options for upgrades during epic leveling.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
The advantage of a post-heroic lower level is that the devs could more adequately tune the content for difficulty given Epic Destinies are in play.
 

Pandjed

Well-known member
Would also like to add that this would open up a more epic storyline, similar to Menace of the Underdark, where first Cormyr is threaten and then the whole of Toril, if Lolth becomes the new goddess of magic. Having more epic storylines (as there would be no heroic levels there) would be great.
 

Aelonwy

Well-known member
Some arguments why the lower level variant of the next expansion should be level 23 (in addition to the level 34 variant)
  • Heroic content now has a modern (Ravenloft and later) expansion every 2-3 levels.
  • Epic has the in the early levels the MotU expansion that provides good xp but bad loot. In later levels there is Shadowfell with the same properties.
  • My items for epic leveling mostly consist of level 15 Sharn, some Level 20 sets and crafted items for the main attributes and spell DCs.
  • Level 23 offers a big jump for those stats: Level 20 to 23 the competence+insigthful attributes jump from 9+4 to 11+5. Spell DC equipment+insightful also jumps to 5+3.
  • So Level 23 would be a perfect spot to place an expansion that provides good loot to use during epic leveling.
  • Epic levels didn't get much new content during the recent years. With some additional expansion level content in there I could vary up the quests I do for epic leveling.
Agreed, heroics is full of expansion content. Epic (not Legendary) is sparse on expansion content. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, I think a great option would be for them to rebalance MotU loot to the new standards, and retire MotU (the first ever expansion) to permanent Free-to-play or at least permanent 99point code and then create at least a mini-expansion that utilizes the newly accessible to everyone King's Forest and Underdark wilderness zones for a dozen or so new quests. The level spread could be 4x 23, 4x 24, and 4x 25 or 5x 23 and 5x 24 if less quests. Because of the way augments work I would almost lean towards the loot being level 24.

They could add a couple more teleport locations in these zones too, definitely iron out the kinks of the rares that do NOT consistently show up, maybe... just maybe add a handful new rares specific to the new mini-expansion story. Lots of locations in both King's Forest and Underdark that were begging to be quest doorways/locations.

I would also suggest putting an entrance to the Mines of Tethyamar in the Underdark. Leave the quick travel option in Eveningstar but to add more immersion to the world and the game - make it accessible from somewhere in the Underdark wilderness zone as well.
 

woq

Well-known member
24-25 would be sweet spot for me for a new expansion. I'm generally quite happy with the stuff I can do at 20-23 and 28-30, but I seem to hit a rut in the middle there somewhere as someone who.. to put it mildly, doesn't love Stormhorns, Wheloon and GH. Heresy, I know.
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Considering the number of completionists we should assume level 34+ probably with a base entry of level 5 since so many characters are in that range
 

AbyssalMage

Well-known member
Some arguments why the lower level variant of the next expansion should be level 23 (in addition to the level 34 variant)
  • Heroic content now has a modern (Ravenloft and later) expansion every 2-3 levels.
  • Epic has the in the early levels the MotU expansion that provides good xp but bad loot. In later levels there is Shadowfell with the same properties.
  • My items for epic leveling mostly consist of level 15 Sharn, some Level 20 sets and crafted items for the main attributes and spell DCs.
  • Level 23 offers a big jump for those stats: Level 20 to 23 the competence+insigthful attributes jump from 9+4 to 11+5. Spell DC equipment+insightful also jumps to 5+3.
  • So Level 23 would be a perfect spot to place an expansion that provides good loot to use during epic leveling.
  • Epic levels didn't get much new content during the recent years. With some additional expansion level content in there I could vary up the quests I do for epic leveling.
I don’t even bother switching gear from 20 to 29 thanks to the stat squish. But we need more quality quests from 23 to 27. I’ll just feed the gear but others may not.
 

Xgya

Well-known member
[...] then create at least a mini-expansion that utilizes the newly accessible to everyone King's Forest and Underdark wilderness zones for a dozen or so new quests.
Please don't.
Not unless we get a Ravenloft-style teleporter to get me there.
I already spend enough time running through that forest already, and the Underdark is just that place I get lost in, recall out and get lost in again.

If we DO get that teleporter though, sign me up. I'd love some more FR content for sure.
 

Thumbed_Servant

Well-known member
Salt Marsh gear, made Epic (level 20) with the Epic crafting (https://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Crafting) and maybe a 2 piece set made Epic from Sands of Menechtarun replace my heroic Sharn-and-Barovia gear and get me from 20 to 29.

Yeah, something in the level 23-25 range would be nice. AND it would mean we would hold onto another set of gear that needs more storage space so we would buy more space from SSG!! Win win 🤣
 
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