Artificer: What’s wrong and what should be done U60 and beyond

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Artificers have an unusual combination of roles in DDO, fielding abilities that enable it to play as a Caster, Melee, or Ranged toon. Unfortunately, it excels at none of these to the extent that an Artificer really isn't desirable beyond Heroics. While the upcoming Epic Destiny for the Artificer (U60/61) will be a welcome addition, what's really needed is a complete update for the class.

Disclaimer: This post isn't meant to be all encompassing for every situation or possible build, but rather just the more common problems I've seen for the class / enhancement trees as a whole. Please feel free to add your own "constructive" comments / suggestions a it pertains to the original topic.

Spells
Biggest issue by far is that the Artificers list of spells is very limited with most have very poor utility / scaling as the game progresses into Epics. With the primary spell damage being Electric (lightning) and Tactical Detonation for some limited crowd control. Nowhere in the spell list is anything resembling “true” crowd-control, aggression manipulation or aggression redirection.

Suggestion
Broaden the Artificer spell list with some of the more common Wizard / Sorcerer spells up to spell level 6. After all, they’re arcane casters too, so why not open up the spell list some?

Temporary Weapon Enchants
Weapon enchantments that provide some form of damage reduction, take up critical spell slots for a character with limited spells to begin with.

Suggestion
Allow for the use of Scrolls to cast weapon enchants such that a player can self-cast on their own equipment. (Main hand) Alternatively, have these abilities fall under the Arcane Marksman enhancement tree in a similar fashion as to what was done for the Arcane Archer toggles.

Imbues
1) Currently players can gain imbues from various sources (toggles) but Artificers can also gain a non-stacking / non-togglable “Imbue” from the Rune Arm. This ends up being a bit confusing as the Dev’s have chosen to use the same terminology to describe two different systems. Both of which function independently from one another.

2) Imbues currently scale via Melee or Ranged power which makes no sense for an Arcane Weapon, especially when Artificers have a very difficult time acquiring Melee or Ranged power.

Suggestion
1) Rename the Rune Arms Imbue to something that clearly differentiates it from the toggled Imbues. Alternatively, allow for the Imbue provided to be based on the type of Rune Arm worn. Thus, a player could change their “toggled” imbue type by simply changing the Rune Arm to fit best the situation. The Imbue Dice should then apply to the primary weapon as per the norm. The advantage here being, that this would give Artificers a great deal of adaptability when it comes to breaking a targets Damage Resistance, that’s not currently available to any other class. (Not counting the upcoming changes in U60)

2) Base the imbue damage of the highest of Melee, Ranged or Spell power.

Repeaters
They should have never been given 3 shots per round starting from level one. Seriously, why was this not set to increase the number of shots as the players BAB increased?

Suggestion
One shot @ 1st level with an extra shot for every four BAB gained. Thus at 20th a Artificer with 15 BAB would have four shots. (Better than the 3 we currently have) Epics would provide for the 5th and 6th shot as the BAB continued to increase. I'd suggest a cap of 6 shots regardless of the potential class combination used to achieve the BAB. This way classes that gain BAB faster would just gain their shots earlier as the BAB advances quicker.

Example: With an Artificer BAB rate per level of 0.75, they'd gain 1 Shot at 1st level (BAB 0), 2nd shot at 6th (BAB 4), 3rd shot at 11th (BAB 8), 4th shot at 16th (BAB 12) and so on and so on...

Double Shot (DS)
The 1/3 DS nerf was and still is a bit extreme considering that the penetration, ranged power, threat and critical multipliers for a repeater user is significantly less than with a bow. Currently as things stand, repeater DPS is overly front loaded during early heroics, yet scales very poorly into Epics.

Suggestion
Assuming that the Double shot repeater penalty is fixed in stone, at least improve the Ranged-Power, Threat, and Critical Multipliers such that the DPS scaling is better past level ten.

Doggy
When was the last time you've seen someone use a pet for DPS past 4th level? I'm mean seriously, its a joke...

Suggestion
Just Sheet-Can the pet, its beyond fixing, and no one would miss it. Tis bloody useless so long as its hampered by a system that doesn't really support their proper use. Instead give us a dedicated melee tree without the Dog.

Other Notes

-Games such as WOW did a really good job with their Hunter class by allowing the player to redirect aggression (agro) towards a target Tank. Not only does the Hunter retain its ability to DPS, but aids the party in maintaining aggression control. Currently there is nothing in DDO even close to this ability, which is a missed opportunity.

Your constructive comments and suggestions are welcome.

-Smokewolf
 

The Blonde

Catalogues Bugs
Bit too "buff-heavy" as a post, but in general terms I agree, except for the case of pet removal (I have hopes they'll get fixed before the end of the decade).
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
extent that an Artificer really isn't desirable beyond Heroics.
Who doesn't want an artificer around beyond heroics? They're useful in every party and raids all the way up to r10's.
1) Currently players can gain imbues from various sources (toggles) but Artificers can also gain a non-stacking / non-togglable “Imbue” from the Rune Arm. This ends up being a bit confusing as the Dev’s have chosen to use the same terminology to describe two different systems. Both of which function independently from one another.
Artificers get their imbue in t3 BE (which scales off spell power), the "rune arm imbue" is just an entirely different thing they should just rename to avoid confusion now that they added a new system with a similar name.
 

ACJ97F

Well-known member
I'd have liked to see the Runearms be instant-cast, with a recharge timer, so the base Arm level + stable-Tier determines the shots power.
I mean, who runs around with an unloaded gun, then tells the target, "Um, stand still for a few, and please ignore the winding-up noises!"

[That would completely remove the need for that silly recharge mechanic, interface, and constant noise.]

-----------------------------------------------------

Secondly, people tend to avoid the spread and spiral firing pattern Arms. I'd like to see some straight-up beam ones, Scorching Ray style.
 

Ying

Well-respected member
Every end-game melee and ranged wants Deadly Weapon, Greater Elemental Weapon or DR breaking.

Nowhere in the spell list is anything resembling “true” crowd-control,
Tactical Detonation would like a word.

What arcane spells do you want added to Artificer? Speak in specifics rather than generalities.

The 1/3 DS nerf was and still is a bit extreme
Artificers have a faster attack rate compared to any other ranged, by wide margin. When using Fusilade, it's 270 projectiles per minute.

When was the last time you've seen someone use a pet for DPS past 4th level? I'm mean seriously, its a joke...
Pets and summons in DDO suck. That's not going to change until there's a summon-centric class or archetype introduced, where the entire pet/summon system gets overhauled as part of that effort. Doggo is a glorified lever puller right now.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Bit too "buff-heavy" as a post, but in general terms I agree, except for the case of pet removal (I have hopes they'll get fixed before the end of the decade).
Well consider that Artificers really do need an update as they are very much underperforming. Now as for pets... Unless the Dev's intend to revamp the entire hire system, then anything we have pet-wise is just garbage repackaged as a flavor-ability.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Every end-game melee and ranged wants Deadly Weapon, Greater Elemental Weapon or DR breaking.


Tactical Detonation would like a word.

What arcane spells do you want added to Artificer? Speak in specifics rather than generalities.


Artificers have a faster attack rate compared to any other ranged, by wide margin. When using Fusilade, it's 270 projectiles per minute.


Pets and summons in DDO suck. That's not going to change until there's a summon-centric class or archetype introduced, where the entire pet/summon system gets overhauled as part of that effort. Doggo is a glorified lever puller right now.
Seriously, when was the last time you've played one? The limited amount of spells in comparison to other "Arcane" classes is pitiful. But sure tac-Detonation is nice, its long cooldown and high SP cost make it of limited use.

Attack rates are really high early on during heroics but this is more than eclipsed once you also factor in penetration, threat and crit-multipliers in Epics. Artiy's are lacking on every count. It truly doesn't mater how fast you attack if you can't get past the DR of most mobs.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
The only big change I'd like on arti is to move the crit range and multi from BE t5/core lvl 20 to core lvl 12 to match inquis to open build choices. Having to go 20 arti and lvl 20 core for crit multi on repeater feels very meh.
 

Ying

Well-respected member
Seriously, when was the last time you've played one?
Hardcore Season 8.

once you also factor in penetration, threat and crit-multipliers in Epics. Artiy's are lacking on every count.
Artificer 20 has 17-18/x3, 19-20/x5 weapon profile with heavy repeating crossbows. That's lacking how?

You can get 93% fort bypass with little effort:
025 Precision
023 Item
005 Shiradi: Vision
005 Guild Ship: Trapsmith’s Workshop
020 Shiradi: Track
015 Destruction (Deconstructor augment)
--
93

Sneak-attack to-hit is around 174, with a base damage of 175, 6 SA dice and 17 imbue dice.

You're making claims that Arti is lagging without providing meaningful comparisons with other classes.
 

Ying

Well-respected member
You're conveniently not considering rune arm blast damage. With Machrotechnic, rune arm blast gains 300 spellpower from Maximize, Empower an Intensify. Rune arm shot damage is a significant portion of Artificer's damage, and it's even easier to slot the electric spell crit damage today than it was in U53 when I published the DPS calcs for 17 different ranged builds.

The biggest problems Arti has:

1. An epic strike that synergizes with repeater. Hunt's End and Shadowstrike don't apply to all the bolts. The new Machrotechnic epic strike doesn't even involve the repeater. No one is going to stop in the middle of Fusilade to cast a PBAoE spell.
2. Gearing. To get the most out of Artificer, it requires 10 raid items. It's too easy for players to create suboptimal versions of Artificers, which creates it's own bias that they underperform.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Just remembered another little thing I'd like on arti- Curative Admixture: Heal. If the devs didn't want to just give to all artis, it could be tied to something like having core lvl 18 of mastermaker adds it to the spell book. They've got a healing/repair/bubble tree, it just makes sense to have that spell too.
 

Elves United

Well-known member
Artificers have an unusual combination of roles in DDO, fielding abilities that enable it to play as a Caster, Melee, or Ranged toon. Unfortunately, it excels at none of these to the extent that an Artificer really isn't desirable beyond Heroics. While the upcoming Epic Destiny for the Artificer (U60/61) will be a welcome addition, what's really needed is a complete update for the class.

I gotta disagree.

My repeater battle engineer does fairly well in legendary mid-reaper. Can even be an asset in a high reaper team assuming they have someone to handle the aggro. ( just like any other ranged character ) Only offensive spell he casts is the occasional blade barrier. And that's because enemies will often take the long way around to avoid getting scratched.

I've seen folks play arty tanks beyond heroics and they do work though I think the new tree simply doesn't have enough to entice them away from Unyielding destiny.

And casters? Probably the rarest in epics/legendary but they do exist. Electrical damage all the way. And the new destiny is probably the best for them and a significant power upgrade. I'd recommend investing in Feydark Illusionist for the color spray.

Artificers do not have a combination of roles. They have a choice of roles. If you go ranged repeater then you've given up on offensive spell casting. If you go caster then your weapon at best will be only used as a weak backup you've put no feats toward and probably have spellcaster bonuses on it.
 

Zvdegor

Melee Artificer Freak
As an Artificer fan I also see lots of problems with this class. Yes Artificers needs some love and facelift but it is possible to create great builds in every playstyle.
Just check the Artificer class thread here in DDO Forums.
Myself presented a melee one which works extraordinarily well in high reapers too. Even on a 1st lifer is r4-6 capable.
Rabidfox presented the Bubble Arti for High Reaps/Raids.
Epicsoul also presented some nice crazy builds on the old forums.
I also have a 1st lifer Inquisitive pure Arti which has got great damage. Pulling aggro all the time, I had to farm the threat decreasing party potion to solve this problem.
My guildy recently created a caster Arti which also performing amazingly.
If you thinking out of the box Arties are definetly not bad at all.

So maybe in general Arties are behind but only for those who dont understand the class. Some of us could find a way to shine Arties in every playstyle.
I also rabbiting on forums a lot b/o Arties and the new ED tree cause I have my own POV which does not always meet the DEV's conceptions but we can cook what we have with. Also DEVS are very close-mouthed about the future info which makes players confused.
I always support forum post like this if open minded and constructive just You mentioned above. Hope it will help in general for this superb class!!!
 
Last edited:
Top