As I empty my TR cache again, I am still confused...

Phoenicis

Savage's Husband
Let me explain why this issue is relevant to this thread.

One reason the TR cache is problematic is that most players primarily focus on a single "main" character, naturally storing all items needed for different types of past lives on that character.

If we had the option to play different past lives on multiple characters, with all of them contributing to our progression, it would also alleviate the storage problem.

As I mentioned, we essentially don't need the reincarnation cache at all. One part of the solution could be account-based progression.

Another part could be to make Kundarak and Coin Lord bank and inventory space persistent.

Additionally, making all items BTA (Bound to Account) unless there are very good reasons not to this for a few items.

Item management would be much easier if we had no character banks and no reincarnation cache at all and instead only ONE BIG account bank for all our characters!
No character bank?

I have 28 characters on Khyber.

Every one of them has, at minimum 60 bank slots. Some have more. One has 200.

My shared bank space would need to increase by, at minimum 1600, probably closer to 2000.

As for account based progression, I've played games where everything is account based, housing, storage, achievements. Hated it. Played to cap once and uninstalled, there is literally no replay value (to me) in that kind of environment.
 

Tanis

Well-known member
Let me explain why this issue is relevant to this thread.

One reason the TR cache is problematic is that most players primarily focus on a single "main" character, naturally storing all items needed for different types of past lives on that character.

If we had the option to play different past lives on multiple characters, with all of them contributing to our progression, it would also alleviate the storage problem.

As I mentioned, we essentially don't need the reincarnation cache at all. One part of the solution could be account-based progression.

Another part could be to make Kundarak and Coin Lord bank and inventory space persistent.

Additionally, making all items BTA (Bound to Account) unless there are very good reasons not to this for a few items.

Item management would be much easier if we had no character banks and no reincarnation cache at all and instead only ONE BIG account bank for all our characters!
This doesn’t solve the problem only move it around

A single character should be able to store all the items it needs

TR cashe is not even as bad as you make it out it doesn’t take so long to empty out

You still haven’t tried emptying your cashe at TR and seeing how that plays out for you since you have been advocating that is how it would work

Now you want to mix in other things that have not to do with the TR cashe to try to solve problems created by your solution
 

Reaped and Ravaged

Well-known member
Neverwinter 🥵nline has a mechanism for showing what items from a module you had looted, weapons, mounts, companions etc. Expansion Item Reclaim pages for some items could be sold or included in VIP just like the Monster Manuals are now that could be used in lieu of perpetually hoarding everything. They could start with Ravenloft and Sharn and have higher reclaim costs like epic tokens, remnants or House C mats for the really good stuff.
 

Tanis

Well-known member
Neverwinter 🥵nline has a mechanism for showing what items from a module you had looted, weapons, mounts, companions etc. Expansion Item Reclaim pages for some items could be sold or included in VIP just like the Monster Manuals are now that could be used in lieu of perpetually hoarding everything. They could start with Ravenloft and Sharn and have higher reclaim costs like epic tokens, remnants or House C mats for the really good stuff.
That be great for collecting sets or filling out gear equipping alts without hoarding everything

However I still don’t see that as viable instead of TR cashe there’s really no reason why a character should not be able to carry the items that they need through to each life

want to have to reclaim items life after life
 

rohmer

Well-known member
Can someone please explain to me how a separate storage system, that would allow me to dump all my TR cache into it, and not have to touch it while i am on a TR grind, is worse for server lag, than having to interact with the bank in its current design, which lags EVERY TIME I OPEN THE BANK.

Just wondering.
It is horriblly tedious to TR, having done it 100 or so times.

Problem 1: With mythic and reaper enhancements, I have to go thru all my dupes and only keep the best one. Since I usually have 4 or 5 items I picked up each life that are like this, its an issue. It also doesnt help that there is no easy way to see duplicates across 3 banks and inventory
Problem 2: The lag on clicking crap from the reincarnation cache. From around 260 down to 90, it is about one click per 3 seconds or 15-20 minutes of tedium

Those are my gripes.
 

Pom

Pom
...and the reason why nothing will change is that there are 6 pages on an issue that has various differing solutions....
All equally valid and all with good points made for people who have developed their own systems.

I once worked on traffic calming outside a school. The highways chap came along and said ok we can solve your parking issue. No worries.
You say it is really dangerous and many children could have died.
By the way how many accidents were there that actually killed a child in the last 5 years?
We could just put all the kids in reflectives??

Yes its broken but changing it the way some feel could make it worse.

So the strategy is to bring in something new and distract us with something shiny :)
 

Balvix

Active member
This is a really good point. DDO should try to have as few logins as possible per account per hour to avoid the problems those logins (and logouts) create.

I would support a limit on the number of logins an account can have on a server per hour. Not sure what the number should be but my experience is that when I am gear shuffling I can pretty easily go 12 logins and logouts in about 15 minutes and that has to have an impact if a few other people are doing that as well.
I'm sorry, but that's just a really bad idea. Limit yourself if you like, but until there is a better banking system, logging in and out to gear mules is going to be the norm.
 

Balvix

Active member
One of the major things i think they could fix but make excuses and refuse to do is to make a cosmetics tab similar to the mount tab. I understand that glammered items would be a no go as there is too many oddball cosmetics that can be made via the mirrors, however, any cosmetic that could be purchased in the DDO store, and any cosmetics given through pack purchase or earned from events such as hardcore, could easily be put in to a cosmetics tab. I currently have a mule full of cosmetics and only a few of these cosmetics were glammered, almost all were from packs, events, and the store. I have even purchased more bag space for this mule, and i still cant hold all of it. This has to stop. I am obsessed with having cosmetics and every life I spend an inordinate amount of time logging in and out in order to move cosmetics from that mule to my shared bank in order to match my cosmetics to how I want to feel about my character, is he a goofy caster that wants to summon squirrels? Or is he a deadly melee fresh from the underdark gladiator arena? Whatever I feel like the story I want to convey, I want it written on him by his cosmetics. So yes, all of you who say "get rid of the extra stuff" sure I should probably toss some of them that I rarely use, but I don't want to, and I shouldn't have to. SSG should implement obvious changes of this nature to help with the overall health of the game, the banking system, and its playerbase.
 

Bouncyboy

New member
Their entire banking system is a mess. Im sure it stresses the servers some to have people logging in and out constantly all day and night long switching between mules.

Their number one priority should be addressing banking space. There literally no longer is room for all these new items we keep getting from expansions.
Imagine how much better of a game it would be, quality of life to no longer have a TR cache. A huge shared bank, that I dont need to log off when I level up to keep grabbing gear from 20 different mules while I am leveling.
They could also get rid of BTC items. No need for it. There literally is no need to have items bound to your character. Everything should be bound to account.

I've been posting about this for years... even corresponded directly with Cordovan about the topic a month ago. In short, I 100% agree they should provide, or at least sell, shared bank space up to 1,500+ slots. Even if server lag doesn't massively improve, quality of (DDO) life will go way up! :)

As for the hording comment - I regularly delete dupes of items meaning I only have 1 part of the family set (heroic) and 1 (legendary) etc. Still, with 395 shared bank slots and 220 character bank slots, I need/use 21 mule toons to hold gear. Not all mules are full to the brim, but most are and I periodically purge to make sure I don't have dupes... I've even fed all my heroic GS to a gem except for a few min2's and one triple-positive raise clickie.

Storage space is a virtual, but also real, issue.
 
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Reaped and Ravaged

Well-known member
Any alternative to the TR cache should not be connected to the Bank. It should be a separate NPC with a separate que for bringing it up. This way it does not create memory holes every time you need to access your bank.
 

OG DM

Member
No character bank?

I have 28 characters on Khyber.

Every one of them has, at minimum 60 bank slots. Some have more. One has 200.

My shared bank space would need to increase by, at minimum 1600, probably closer to 2000.

As for account based progression, I've played games where everything is account based, housing, storage, achievements. Hated it. Played to cap once and uninstalled, there is literally no replay value (to me) in that kind of environment.
Do you have a database of every item you would need to keep?

It's not like any QoL is going to happen here, because the expectation for players is to purchase what they feel they need, but I am curious when people say they would have to be compensated with thousands of item spaces, as to what those items are that are absolute keepers, in that quantity.
 

Phoenicis

Savage's Husband
Do you have a database of every item you would need to keep?

It's not like any QoL is going to happen here, because the expectation for players is to purchase what they feel they need, but I am curious when people say they would have to be compensated with thousands of item spaces, as to what those items are that are absolute keepers, in that quantity.
My point is I have somewhere in the vicinity of 1800-2000 character bank spaces, many of which I paid for. And yes, buying a character slot is buying bank space, as is flat out buying character bank space.

THAT is what I need to be compensated for. It doesn't matter if I have anything in them or not. I bought them, If SSG takes them away arbitrarily without some form of compensation that may well be the dump truck that breaks the camel's back.

And that is just Khyber.
 

Grumpy

Well-known member
Do you have a database of every item you would need to keep?

but I am curious when people say they would have to be compensated with thousands of item spaces,
Just curious about what you wrote here, and yes, im here on this thread because the game is lagging so bad while i try to move items out of my inventory to my bank, and its taking MINUTES for each one but I don't want "thousands" of Item spaces. A storage space that is separate from the banking system, that doesn't need to be emptied on TR, create the banks with 100 spaces, and then you can sell additional space up to 500 and that would be awesome. Because then, every life when I have to TR, all the stuff that I won't use, that I want to keep, will be placed in my storage, and I don't have to interact with it.

As to my original post, I am still confused about how a separate storage system would make things worse, because right now, the majority of lag that I experience is working with an archaic banking system, that can't handle the load the players are putting on it. If the TR cache is empty, when I am ready to TR, i dump stuff into shared account, or personal storage, then TR. When the TR Cache is created with nothing in it, or the scrolls, that I forgot were in my hand, then you close that bank the first time it opens, and the lag goes down. Shocker!!! TR Cache is causing the lag.

Im just irritated, because instead of playing, I can't because the servers are on life support, and its sunday.
 

OG DM

Member
My point is I have somewhere in the vicinity of 1800-2000 character bank spaces, many of which I paid for. And yes, buying a character slot is buying bank space, as is flat out buying character bank space.

THAT is what I need to be compensated for. It doesn't matter if I have anything in them or not. I bought them, If SSG takes them away arbitrarily without some form of compensation that may well be the dump truck that breaks the camel's back.

And that is just Khyber.
No one would lose the mule characters they have if SSG created a different solution. It likely won't occur because the expectation is for players to purchase space as they see fit, but if they "fixed" the TR system by creating a secondary bank rather than using the obviously faulty TR cache, nothing any other player has on their account would be lost.
 

OG DM

Member
Just curious about what you wrote here, and yes, im here on this thread because the game is lagging so bad while i try to move items out of my inventory to my bank, and its taking MINUTES for each one but I don't want "thousands" of Item spaces. A storage space that is separate from the banking system, that doesn't need to be emptied on TR, create the banks with 100 spaces, and then you can sell additional space up to 500 and that would be awesome. Because then, every life when I have to TR, all the stuff that I won't use, that I want to keep, will be placed in my storage, and I don't have to interact with it.

As to my original post, I am still confused about how a separate storage system would make things worse, because right now, the majority of lag that I experience is working with an archaic banking system, that can't handle the load the players are putting on it. If the TR cache is empty, when I am ready to TR, i dump stuff into shared account, or personal storage, then TR. When the TR Cache is created with nothing in it, or the scrolls, that I forgot were in my hand, then you close that bank the first time it opens, and the lag goes down. Shocker!!! TR Cache is causing the lag.

Im just irritated, because instead of playing, I can't because the servers are on life support, and its sunday.
Over the years when I have read conversations on this topic between months of playing something else, some people seem to believe if SSG replaced the TR system with some kind of new or existing bank system it would somehow lower the number of items they could store. This would not be the case for people using mule characters but might be the case for those abusing the TR cache system as some sort of storage locker. But maybe I'm missing something, so I ask them.

I am uncertain why some want to keep the TR cache system, which they do not return to you on server transfers, character undelete, or in cases when lag causes items in it to be deleted. It seems like they used a transaction system only, rather than a full database for TR caches, as it's limited to one way, and cannot be logged and tracked like the inventory and bank system is. Even if I was using it as a pixelated dumpster to store all my loot, I'd still rather have something that behaves more like the bank and less like a single direction only block chain shoehorned into an MMO.
 

Tanis

Well-known member
Over the years when I have read conversations on this topic between months of playing something else, some people seem to believe if SSG replaced the TR system with some kind of new or existing bank system it would somehow lower the number of items they could store. This would not be the case for people using mule characters but might be the case for those abusing the TR cache system as some sort of storage locker. But maybe I'm missing something, so I ask them.

I am uncertain why some want to keep the TR cache system, which they do not return to you on server transfers, character undelete, or in cases when lag causes items in it to be deleted. It seems like they used a transaction system only, rather than a full database for TR caches, as it's limited to one way, and cannot be logged and tracked like the inventory and bank system is. Even if I was using it as a pixelated dumpster to store all my loot, I'd still rather have something that behaves more like the bank and less like a single direction only block chain shoehorned into an MMO.
The storage that is lost is the empty inventory at TR only what’s needed is drawn from TR space as you level leaving room that you would not have in inventory for looting as you level etc
 

Tanis

Well-known member
Just curious about what you wrote here, and yes, im here on this thread because the game is lagging so bad while i try to move items out of my inventory to my bank, and its taking MINUTES for each one but I don't want "thousands" of Item spaces. A storage space that is separate from the banking system, that doesn't need to be emptied on TR, create the banks with 100 spaces, and then you can sell additional space up to 500 and that would be awesome. Because then, every life when I have to TR, all the stuff that I won't use, that I want to keep, will be placed in my storage, and I don't have to interact with it.

As to my original post, I am still confused about how a separate storage system would make things worse, because right now, the majority of lag that I experience is working with an archaic banking system, that can't handle the load the players are putting on it. If the TR cache is empty, when I am ready to TR, i dump stuff into shared account, or personal storage, then TR. When the TR Cache is created with nothing in it, or the scrolls, that I forgot were in my hand, then you close that bank the first time it opens, and the lag goes down. Shocker!!! TR Cache is causing the lag.

Im just irritated, because instead of playing, I can't because the servers are on life support, and its sunday.
Moving items shouldn’t be taking so long as minutes per item

I noticed an increase in lag going from no shared bank to shared bank

I will time emptying my cashe next time I get around to TR I’ve been quite busy with other projects lately however I will report back
 

Grumpy

Well-known member
Moving items shouldn’t be taking so long as minutes per item

I noticed an increase in lag going from no shared bank to shared bank

I will time emptying my cashe next time I get around to TR I’ve been quite busy with other projects lately however I will report back
Minutes per item is rare, it was happening yesterday, and it was only affecting players hitting the bank, as I was in discord with people, and while there was lag in the game, it was playable. ( fine distinction between playable and enjoyable).

Do banking on a character that has 200+ items in the TR cache and do banking on a mule, where all you are doing is moving BTA items around, in a manner that helps you remember where they are best. The lag between the two is significant.

I am not saying I want thousands of items for my storage. What I want is a seperate storage sysstem that can hold what players can currently hold, and I think that is around 500 total spaces. And when the next expansion comes out and 50 more items are released that the company decided to make BTC, then give/sell the players storage to put them.

But all the debate aside, of how much storage is needed by players, my original question still stands. how would lag be worse with a starage system that holds gear, that I DON"T have to interact with every life? I have to interact with the TR cache. There is no way around that, because it is tied to the bank system, so any time i interact with the bank, while I have a TR Cache the game lags.
 

Tanis

Well-known member
Minutes per item is rare, it was happening yesterday, and it was only affecting players hitting the bank, as I was in discord with people, and while there was lag in the game, it was playable. ( fine distinction between playable and enjoyable).

Do banking on a character that has 200+ items in the TR cache and do banking on a mule, where all you are doing is moving BTA items around, in a manner that helps you remember where they are best. The lag between the two is significant.

I am not saying I want thousands of items for my storage. What I want is a seperate storage sysstem that can hold what players can currently hold, and I think that is around 500 total spaces. And when the next expansion comes out and 50 more items are released that the company decided to make BTC, then give/sell the players storage to put them.

But all the debate aside, of how much storage is needed by players, my original question still stands. how would lag be worse with a starage system that holds gear, that I DON"T have to interact with every life? I have to interact with the TR cache. There is no way around that, because it is tied to the bank system, so any time i interact with the bank, while I have a TR Cache the game lags.
You can also notice the difference in lag when you have a character that has only TR cashe & character bank vs a character that has shared bank shared bank increases lag as well over not having it

If it was feasible to avoid the shared bank and using mules that would cut down on a lot of the bank lag but that pops open just like TR bank

A simple workaround would be to have buttons to only open those banks when needed instead of loading them every time the bank is opened

I’m not against a better system but simply letting the favor unlocks of bank & inventory persist through TR will ultimately cause TR to become more cumbersome that having to empty the cashe
 
It is horriblly tedious to TR, having done it 100 or so times.
Agreed. TR's could be made 100% better with two options:
1. When doing an Epic TR, have a button that says "Rebuild me to 20 just the way I am now".
2. On the TR cache, have two buttons 'Drain to character bank' and 'Drain to inventory', each of which would transfer as many items as possible until the receiving space is full. It wouldn't have to update the UI during this process, so it could be faster.
Problem 2: The lag on clicking crap from the reincarnation cache. From around 260 down to 90, it is about one click per 3 seconds or 15-20 minutes of tedium

Those are my gripes.
One thing I found out recently (thanks @Vooduspyce ) is that if you first select a filter that reduces the TR cache list (let's say weapons only, or max level 10), it's MUCH faster to remove items - the lag appears to be proportional to the length of the displayed list, not the total contents of the TR cache.
 
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